Money & Investing Learn how to get rich on the housing bubble and the bull market…

Public workers receive less pay

Thread Tools
 
Old 04-28-2010, 12:12 PM
  #1  
Chapter Leader
(Northeast Florida)
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
gatrhumpy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Age: 44
Posts: 35,532
Received 1,652 Likes on 1,117 Posts
Public workers receive less pay

http://money.cnn.com/2010/04/28/news...less/index.htm

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- State and local workers earn less than their private sector counterparts and the pay gap is widening, according to a report released Wednesday.

Public workers earn 11% to 12% less than workers in private companies, according to a joint study from the Center for State and Local Government Excellence and National Institute on Retirement Security.

Facebook Digg Twitter Buzz Up! Email Print Comment on this story

The report, which analyzed 20 years of data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, also found that the pay gap has generally widened over the last two decades, as private compensation moved higher while earnings for state and local workers fell.

"The big divergence began to occur in the late 1990s," said John S. Heywood, a professor in the economics department at University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee and co-author of the report. "It's an issue."

Researchers say the make-up of public workers could be a primary driver for the gap. According to the study, because state and local employees tend to be older, they're less likely to leave their positions, which could keep salaries stagnant.

Get your big paycheck back
"The kinds of employment relationships in the public sector tend to be long term," said Keith A. Bender, associate professor of economics at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee and co-author of the report. "People in the private sector are more likely to turn over, looking for the highest return."

Still, while public sector workers are better educated -- 48% have college degrees versus 23% in the private sector -- the hard cash hasn't followed. Public employees, instead, see more in the way of benefits.

According to the study, benefits such as healthcare and retirement programs, comprise 32.7% of total compensation for public sector workers, compared to 29.2% in the total private sector. Larger private companies tend to be more in line with the public sector.

Even when accounting for these benefits, though, total compensation is still 6.8% to 7.4% lower on average for state and local employees.

"For a long time, there has been a compensation trade-off in public sector jobs --better benefits come with lower pay as compared with private sector jobs", said Beth Almeida, executive director of NIRS. "This study tells us that is still true today."

As the jobs market slowly improves, a brain drain to the private sector, potentially out of state, coupled with the recently passed $17.7 billion jobs bill, which includes tax incentives for businesses that hire, could make it harder for public sector employers to attract top talent.

The Center for State and Local Government Excellence's president, Elizabeth Kellar, said that there is a "looming workforce crisis" in the public sector, as a wave of retirement and low pay collide, leaving holes in many highly skilled slots.

"Hiring managers told us that, despite the economy, they find it difficult to fill vacancies for highly skilled [public sector] positions such as engineering, environmental science, information technology and health care professionals," said Kellar. "The compensation gap may have something to do with this."

This is on the state and local level. On the Federal level, I'm not sure.
Old 04-28-2010, 01:20 PM
  #2  
Карты убийцы
 
Professor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Cochabamba, Bolivia
Age: 54
Posts: 8,264
Received 125 Likes on 100 Posts
According to Carnac el Silver, you are wrong:

Originally Posted by Silver™


and wages growing regardless of how the economy is:



Old 04-28-2010, 02:32 PM
  #3  
Chapter Leader
(Northeast Florida)
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
gatrhumpy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Age: 44
Posts: 35,532
Received 1,652 Likes on 1,117 Posts
Originally Posted by Professor
According to Carnac el Silver, you are wrong:
Like every survey, there will be differences in statistics used, the type of analysis used, assumptions, etc. That article was from CNN.
Old 04-28-2010, 04:10 PM
  #4  
Moderator Alumnus
 
Silver™'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: SoCal
Posts: 37,312
Received 337 Likes on 244 Posts
I am curious how the study was conducted, it would be hard to draw broad comparisons between the private and public sector as they are often very different jobs even if the title/education background are similar. ie: What is the private sector equivalent of a lifetime bureaucrat?
Old 04-28-2010, 04:12 PM
  #5  
Moderator Alumnus
 
Silver™'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: SoCal
Posts: 37,312
Received 337 Likes on 244 Posts
This report looked at a few specific occupations:


Federal employees earn higher average salaries than private-sector workers in more than eight out of 10 occupations, a USA TODAY analysis of federal data finds. Accountants, nurses, chemists, surveyors, cooks, clerks and janitors are among the wide range of jobs that get paid more on average in the federal government than in the private sector.

Overall, federal workers earned an average salary of $67,691 in 2008 for occupations that exist both in government and the private sector, according to Bureau of Labor Statistics data. The average pay for the same mix of jobs in the private sector was $60,046 in 2008, the most recent data available.

These salary figures do not include the value of health, pension and other benefits, which averaged $40,785 per federal employee in 2008 vs. $9,882 per private worker, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...eral-pay_N.htm

Last edited by Silver™; 04-28-2010 at 04:15 PM.
Old 04-28-2010, 04:14 PM
  #6  
Moderator Alumnus
 
Silver™'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: SoCal
Posts: 37,312
Received 337 Likes on 244 Posts
And I can say with a high degree of confidence that the public sector is not seeing an explosion of 100K jobs like the government:



The number of federal workers earning six-figure salaries has exploded during the recession, according to a USA TODAY analysis of federal salary data.
Federal employees making salaries of $100,000 or more jumped from 14% to 19% of civil servants during the recession's first 18 months — and that's before overtime pay and bonuses are counted.

Federal workers are enjoying an extraordinary boom time — in pay and hiring — during a recession that has cost 7.3 million jobs in the private sector.

The highest-paid federal employees are doing best of all on salary increases. Defense Department civilian employees earning $150,000 or more increased from 1,868 in December 2007 to 10,100 in June 2009, the most recent figure available.

When the recession started, the Transportation Department had only one person earning a salary of $170,000 or more. Eighteen months later, 1,690 employees had salaries above $170,000.

The trend to six-figure salaries is occurring throughout the federal government, in agencies big and small, high-tech and low-tech.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...salaries_N.htm
Old 04-28-2010, 04:45 PM
  #7  
Карты убийцы
 
Professor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Cochabamba, Bolivia
Age: 54
Posts: 8,264
Received 125 Likes on 100 Posts
Originally Posted by Silver™
I am curious how the study was conducted, it would be hard to draw broad comparisons between the private and public sector as they are often very different jobs even if the title/education background are similar. ie: What is the private sector equivalent of a lifetime bureaucrat?


Hey pot this is the kettle....

https://acurazine.com/forums/newrepl...ply&p=11962214
Old 04-28-2010, 06:06 PM
  #8  
Moderator Alumnus
 
Silver™'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: SoCal
Posts: 37,312
Received 337 Likes on 244 Posts
^^^

Not following your point again

The graph you keep referring to looks at two specific data points, avarage private sector wages and average public sector wages.

The study that gatr posted seems to try and draw specific paralelles across both sectors. Some jobs might be easy to compare, but many others are not. I've seen studies that try to look at specific jobs (like the USA Today article) which seem to draw a much different conclusion. That's why I asked the question that I did
Old 04-28-2010, 06:07 PM
  #9  
I feel the need...
 
Fibonacci's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Motown
Posts: 14,957
Received 515 Likes on 363 Posts
Originally Posted by gatrhumpy
This is on the state and local level. On the Federal level, I'm not sure.
This is a very important distinction. Yes it should be expected that given the decline in tax revenue and shrinking tax-paying job base, state and local gov'ts would be adversely affected and quicker to slash payrolls and cut wages vs the Federal Gov't who can print money and has unlimited tax advantage. States and most local municipalities don't have AAA rated borrowing capacities and can't tap Capital Markets at the Obama rate.

Many recent studies have shown Federal level employees to be better compensated than their private wage counterparts.
Old 04-28-2010, 06:23 PM
  #10  
Moderator Alumnus
 
Silver™'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: SoCal
Posts: 37,312
Received 337 Likes on 244 Posts
^^^

I would bet that state and local public emlpoyees have seen their wages less effected during this downturn than the overall private sector.
Old 04-28-2010, 06:34 PM
  #11  
Chapter Leader
(Northeast Florida)
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
gatrhumpy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Age: 44
Posts: 35,532
Received 1,652 Likes on 1,117 Posts
I acknowledge that Federal employees get paid better for the same job than state and local service employees. Plus, I know what my salary is going to be when I retire, assuming no promotions, in 40 years. That's a big plus.
Old 04-28-2010, 06:35 PM
  #12  
I feel the need...
 
Fibonacci's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Motown
Posts: 14,957
Received 515 Likes on 363 Posts
^^^

I suspect it depends on if they are unionized or not.

To give an anecdotal story, my local municipality furloughed all non-unionized employees every other Friday for the fiscal year (with corresponding wage/salary cuts).
Old 04-28-2010, 06:37 PM
  #13  
I feel the need...
 
Fibonacci's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Motown
Posts: 14,957
Received 515 Likes on 363 Posts
Originally Posted by Silver™
I would bet that state and local public emlpoyees have seen their wages less effected during this downturn than the overall private sector.


I suspect it depends on if they are unionized or not.

To give an anecdotal story, my local municipality furloughed all non-unionized employees every other Friday for the fiscal year (with corresponding wage/salary cuts).
Old 04-28-2010, 07:10 PM
  #14  
MR1
05/5AT/Navi/ABP/Quartz
 
MR1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Central CA
Age: 74
Posts: 3,348
Received 53 Likes on 50 Posts
Really depends on the state also. California state employees are mostly unionized and I think the compensation packages are outrageous even with the mandated furloughs. There are some exceptions.

Of course the employees have a totally different spin.

On the other hand, some communities were thinking of building public housing for local government employees because nobody could afford housing a few years ago!

Last edited by MR1; 04-28-2010 at 07:13 PM.
Old 04-28-2010, 07:22 PM
  #15  
Карты убийцы
 
Professor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Cochabamba, Bolivia
Age: 54
Posts: 8,264
Received 125 Likes on 100 Posts
Originally Posted by Silver™
^^^

Not following your point again
I questioned the methodology and you questioned the methodology... no more.
Old 04-28-2010, 09:11 PM
  #16  
Moderator Alumnus
 
Silver™'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: SoCal
Posts: 37,312
Received 337 Likes on 244 Posts
^^^

I think you should be concerned with more than the methodology, I just realized that was from the UK

I used that graph when I was debating with someone on the R&P board of www.acurazine.co.uk

Here is the graph I meant to post:



Now as far as the methodology used here, this is straight from the BLS and their surveys. Are you disagreeing with that?

The survey referenced in the initial article seems to attempt to map jobs from the private to public sector and vice versa. That to me seems as though it could be very subjective in some cases. That is why I question how they achieved their results.
Old 04-28-2010, 11:01 PM
  #17  
Senior Moderator
 
Ken1997TL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Better Neighborhood, Arizona
Posts: 45,641
Received 2,329 Likes on 1,309 Posts
Depends on the job.

I honestly think basic clerical jobs in the government pay better, especially in benefits than the private sector.

If I ever wanted to work on the private sector though, I could make a real fortune (250k+ easily) but I like where i am and what I do.
Old 04-29-2010, 09:14 AM
  #18  
Chapter Leader
(Northeast Florida)
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
gatrhumpy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Age: 44
Posts: 35,532
Received 1,652 Likes on 1,117 Posts
Originally Posted by Ken1997TL
Depends on the job.

I honestly think basic clerical jobs in the government pay better, especially in benefits than the private sector.

If I ever wanted to work on the private sector though, I could make a real fortune (250k+ easily) but I like where i am and what I do.


Although not as baller as that. In two years I will have a registered professional engineering licence plus other things.
Old 04-29-2010, 06:15 PM
  #19  
I feel the need...
 
Fibonacci's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Motown
Posts: 14,957
Received 515 Likes on 363 Posts
Want to get rich? Work for feds

For decades, public sector unions have peddled the fantasy that government employees were paid less than their counterparts in the private sector. In fact, the pay disparity is the other way around. Government workers, especially at the federal level, make salaries that are scandalously higher than those paid to private sector workers. And let's not forget private sector workers not only have to be sufficiently productive to earn their paychecks, they also must pay the taxes that support the more generous jobs in the public sector.

Data compiled by the Commerce Department's Bureau of Economic Analysis reveals the extent of the pay gap between federal and private workers. As of 2008, the average federal salary was $119,982, compared with $59,909 for the average private sector employee. In other words, the average federal bureaucrat makes twice as much as the average working taxpayer. Add the value of benefits like health care and pensions, and the gap grows even bigger. The average federal employee's benefits add $40,785 to his annual total compensation, whereas the average working taxpayer's benefits increase his total compensation by only $9,881. In other words, federal workers are paid on average salaries that are twice as generous as those in the private sector, and they receive benefits that are four times greater......

Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/op...#ixzz0mXAPCSf2
Old 04-29-2010, 07:30 PM
  #20  
Карты убийцы
 
Professor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Cochabamba, Bolivia
Age: 54
Posts: 8,264
Received 125 Likes on 100 Posts
Originally Posted by Ken1997TL
Depends on the job.

I honestly think basic clerical jobs in the government pay better, especially in benefits than the private sector.

If I ever wanted to work on the private sector though, I could make a real fortune (250k+ easily) but I like where i am and what I do.
Private security for the rich and famous or black ops for the Cottage Inn of American (front for CIA)???
Old 04-29-2010, 08:44 PM
  #21  
Chapter Leader
(Northeast Florida)
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
gatrhumpy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Age: 44
Posts: 35,532
Received 1,652 Likes on 1,117 Posts
Originally Posted by Fibonacci
Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/op...#ixzz0mXAPCSf2
That's expected seeing as how more than twice the number of Federal employees have MUCH better education than private individuals, in general.
Old 04-29-2010, 10:17 PM
  #22  
MR1
05/5AT/Navi/ABP/Quartz
 
MR1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Central CA
Age: 74
Posts: 3,348
Received 53 Likes on 50 Posts
Originally Posted by gatrhumpy
That's expected seeing as how more than twice the number of Federal employees have MUCH better education than private individuals, in general.
Without a source I call BS.

Another area where we the public are getting screwed royaly imho.
If we got a reasonable return on our 'investment' it might not hurt so bad.
Old 04-30-2010, 02:52 PM
  #23  
Outnumbered at home
 
95gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: MD
Age: 46
Posts: 5,334
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by Fibonacci
Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/op...#ixzz0mXAPCSf2
BS on this. He is using incorrect numbers. The 119k is the total with the pay and benefits put in.

http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2009/...-rapid-ascent/

I think this exact same argument took place in R&P with the basic agreement that Fed employees are making a lot of money, they are top heavy, but the comparisons being shown were not apples to apples (similar jobs to similar jobs).

Old 04-30-2010, 05:15 PM
  #24  
Moderator Alumnus
 
Silver™'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: SoCal
Posts: 37,312
Received 337 Likes on 244 Posts
^^^

If you look at post #5, it's $108K for the Federal government and $70K for the private sector for the same jobs. Most of the difference is in the benefits.
Old 05-02-2010, 08:14 PM
  #25  
Outnumbered at home
 
95gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: MD
Age: 46
Posts: 5,334
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
^^^ but the actual opinion piece did not make that distinction. It was just an inflammation piece that didn't look at the facts.

Basically I agree with the whole thing, but at least use the right facts.
Old 05-03-2010, 05:57 AM
  #26  
Chapter Leader
(Northeast Florida)
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
gatrhumpy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Age: 44
Posts: 35,532
Received 1,652 Likes on 1,117 Posts
Originally Posted by 95gt
^^^ but the actual opinion piece did not make that distinction. It was just an inflammation piece that didn't look at the facts.

Basically I agree with the whole thing, but at least use the right facts.


Not to mention that a LOT of private companies that are large (Microsoft, Boeing, Northrup Grumman, GE, Lockheed), all have benefits that approach those of the Government.
Old 05-03-2010, 01:17 PM
  #27  
Moderator Alumnus
 
Silver™'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: SoCal
Posts: 37,312
Received 337 Likes on 244 Posts
^^^

Unfortunately those large companies are the exception, not the norm.
Old 05-03-2010, 01:19 PM
  #28  
MR1
05/5AT/Navi/ABP/Quartz
 
MR1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Central CA
Age: 74
Posts: 3,348
Received 53 Likes on 50 Posts
Federal, state and local government employee salaries and benefits should be at or just below the average for similar jobs in private industry. The benefit comes from the improved job security provided by your employer imho.

I don't buy that these jobs should pay more to retain the best talent. I can't see where anyone is so special that they can't be replaced. That's the new argument being used for outrageous raises for local administrators, BS. If you aren't happy with what the job pays, leave. Just like with private industry, we can't afford to give you guys raises and need to cut back, sorry.
Old 05-03-2010, 01:53 PM
  #29  
Chapter Leader
(Northeast Florida)
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
gatrhumpy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Age: 44
Posts: 35,532
Received 1,652 Likes on 1,117 Posts
Originally Posted by silver™
^^^

unfortunately those large companies are the exception, not the norm.
ok.
Old 05-03-2010, 06:44 PM
  #30  
I feel the need...
 
Fibonacci's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Motown
Posts: 14,957
Received 515 Likes on 363 Posts
The Government Pay Boom

America's most privileged class are public union workers.



It turns out there really is growing inequality in America. It's the 45% premium in pay and benefits that government workers receive over the poor saps who create wealth in the private economy.

And the gap is growing. According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), from 1998 to 2008 public employee compensation grew by 28.6%, compared with 19.3% for private workers. In the recession year of 2009, with almost no inflation and record budget deficits, more than half the states awarded pay raises to their employees. Even as deficits in state capitals widen and are forcing cuts in services, few politicians are willing to eliminate these pay inequities that enrich the few who wield political power.

Let's walk through the math. In 2008 almost half of all state and local government expenditures, or an estimated $1.1 trillion, went toward the pay and benefits of public workers. According to the BLS, in 2009 the average state or local public employee received $39.66 in total compensation per hour versus $27.42 for private workers. This means that for every $1 in pay and benefits a private employee earned, a state or local government worker received $1.45.

The BLS study breaks down where that 45% premium comes from. It turns out that public employees earn salaries that are about one-third higher on average than what is provided to private workers per hour worked. But the real windfall for government workers is in benefits. Those are 70% higher than what standard private employers offer, as shown in the nearby table. Government health benefits are twice as generous as what workers employed by private employees earn. By the way, nearly this entire benefits gap is accounted for by unionized public employees. Nonunion public employees are paid roughly what private workers receive.

What if government workers earned the average of what private workers earn? States and localities would save $339 billion a year from their more than $2.1 trillion budgets. These savings are larger than the combined estimated deficits for 2010 and 2011 of every state in America.

In a separate survey, the federal Bureau of Economic Analysis compares the compensation of public versus private workers in each of the 50 states. Perhaps not coincidentally, the pay gap is widest in states that have the biggest budget deficits, such as New Jersey, Nevada and Hawaii. Of the 40 states that have a budget deficit so far this year, 28 would have a balanced budget were it not for the windfall to government workers.

But these current fiscal problems are a picnic compared to the long-term benefit commitments that state and local politicians have made to public retirees. A 2009 study by economists Robert Novy-Marx and Joshua Rauh, published in the Journal of Economic Perspectives, estimated that these government pensions are underfunded by $3.2 trillion, or $27,000 for every American household.

The Orange County Register reports that California has 3,000 retired teachers and school administrators, who stopped working as early as age 55, collecting at least $100,000 a year in pensions for the rest of their lives.

Illinois's pension obligations are so costly the state had to issue $3.5 billion of bonds merely to meet its mandatory contribution to the worker retirement program, which faces $85 billion, or three years of state tax revenues, in unfunded liabilities. Near-bankrupt New Jersey would have to pay $7 billion a year if it properly accounted for its pension and health benefits.

California, Nevada New Jersey and Ohio all allow double dipping, which lets government workers retire in their 50s and then work another full-time job while collecting retirement checks. In Ohio, police, firefighters and teachers can retire after 30 years on the job, collect a full benefit each year and go back to work full-time doing the same job. This is called retire and rehire.

As the Columbus Dispatch reported last year: "Across the state, Ohio's State Teachers Retirement System paid out more than $741 million in pension benefits last school year to 15,857 faculty and staff members who were still working for school systems and building up a second retirement plan." Some teachers can earn nearly $200,000 a year in pensions and salaries.

The union response is that government workers deserve all this because they are more educated and highly skilled. That may account for some of the pay differential but not the blowout benefits. The unions also neglect one of the greatest perks of government employment: job security. Short of shooting up a Post Office, government workers rarely get fired or laid off.

If government workers were underpaid, we'd expect high attrition rates, as they pursued better private opportunities. The reality is the opposite. Cato Institute economist Chris Edwards has analyzed Department of Labor statistics and found that private workers are three times more likely to quit their jobs than are government workers.

So if your state is broke, this is a major reason. Eventually, governors, state legislators and city council members are going to have to decide whether protecting America's privileged class of government workers is a higher priority than funding such core functions of government as public safety. Something has to give. It's time to close the biggest pay gap in America.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...210295246.html
Old 05-03-2010, 06:57 PM
  #31  
Карты убийцы
 
Professor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Cochabamba, Bolivia
Age: 54
Posts: 8,264
Received 125 Likes on 100 Posts
So our goal is to get workers as cheap as possible? Repuklicans argue that the Demrats play the class card... looks like the game is afoot.

But go ahead and buy the cheap Communist labor from China. If people were American, as claimed, they wouldn't buy a dime from that country.
Old 05-03-2010, 07:47 PM
  #32  
MR1
05/5AT/Navi/ABP/Quartz
 
MR1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Central CA
Age: 74
Posts: 3,348
Received 53 Likes on 50 Posts
^
No Professor, that should not be our goal. The point is we are going broke paying public workers substantially more than people in the private sector. The guaranteed raises, over the top benefits and mainly retirement packages verge on being criminal.

They have been agreed upon by people leaving office and we the public end up holding the bag without recourse. I know retired state employees in California receiving $70,000+ retirement checks. Then the state turns around and rehires them as consultants and pays them a higher salary because they don't have to pay additional benefits. Then there are the HS graduate prison guards earning $100,000+ with overtime due to a hiring freeze. The state is of course very broke. Something has to give. Everyone wants more money and they don't care where it comes from. And we continue to insult almost everyone by granting raises to the top brass while laying off workers.
Old 05-04-2010, 04:57 AM
  #33  
Chapter Leader
(Northeast Florida)
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
gatrhumpy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Age: 44
Posts: 35,532
Received 1,652 Likes on 1,117 Posts
Interesting that people have posted conflicting evidence about the pay of state and local employees vs. private industry. I guess it depends on where the information is coming from.
Old 05-23-2010, 06:39 PM
  #34  
I feel the need...
 
Fibonacci's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Motown
Posts: 14,957
Received 515 Likes on 363 Posts
The Bankrupting of America

We have a ruinous collaboration of elected officials and unionized public workers.

By MORTIMER ZUCKERMAN

The American public feels it is drowning in red ink. It is dismayed and even outraged at the burgeoning national deficits, unbalanced state and local budgets, and accounting that often masks the extent of indebtedness. There is a mounting sense that taxpayers are being taken for an expensive ride by public-sector unions. The extraordinary benefits the unions have secured for their members are going to be harder and harder to pay.

The political backlash has energized the tea party activists, put incumbents at risk in both parties, and already elected fiscal conservatives such as Republican Gov. Chris Christie of New Jersey. Over the next fiscal year, the states are looking at deficits approaching hundreds of billions of dollars. The Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, a liberal think tank, estimates that this coming year alone states will face an aggregate shortfall of $180 billion. In some states the budget gap is more than 30%.

How did we get into such a mess? States have always had to cope with volatility in the size and composition of their populations. Now we have shrinking tax bases caused by recession and extra costs imposed on states to pay for Medicaid in the federal health-care program. The straw (well, more like an iron beam) that breaks the camel's back is the unfunded portions of state pension plans, health care and other retirement benefits promised to public-sector employees. And federal government assistance to states is falling—down by roughly half in the next fiscal year beginning Oct. 1.

It is galling for private-sector workers to see so many public-sector workers thriving because of the power their unions exercise. Take California. Investigative journalist Steve Malanga points out in the City Journal that California's schoolteachers are the nation's highest paid; its prison guards can make six-figure salaries; many state workers retire at 55 with pensions that are higher than the base pay they got most of their working lives.

All this when California endures an unemployment rate steeper than the nation's. It will get worse. There's an exodus of firms that want to escape California's high taxes, stifling regulations, and recurring budget crises. When Cisco CEO John Chambers says he will not build any more facilities in California you know the state is in trouble.

The business community and a growing portion of the public now understand the dynamics that discriminate against the private sector. Public unions organize voting campaigns for politicians who, on election, repay their benefactors by approving salaries and benefits for the public sector, irrespective of whether they are sustainable. And what is happening in California is happening in slower motion in the rest of the country. It's no doubt one of the reasons the Pew Research Center this year reported that support for labor unions generally has plummeted "amid growing public skepticism about unions' power and purpose."

In New York, public-service employees have received gold-plated perks for much of the 20th century, especially generous health-insurance benefits. Indeed, where once salaries were lower in the public sector, the salary gaps in the public and private sectors have disappeared or even reversed.

A Citizens Budget Commission report in 2005 showed that for most job categories in the greater New York City region, public-sector workers received higher hourly wages than private-sector workers. And according to a 2009 survey by the same group, this doesn't even count the money that New York City pays in full premiums for comprehensive health-insurance policies for workers and their families. Only 8% of workers in private firms enjoy that subsidy. In virtually all cases, the city also pays the full health-care premium costs for retirees and their spouses. And city pensions are "defined benefit" plans, which are more expensive since they guarantee specific benefits on retirement.

By contrast, private-sector workers in the survey were mostly in "defined contribution" plans, which means that, unlike their cushioned brethren in the public sector, they do not have a predetermined benefit at retirement. If New York City were to require its current workers to pay contributions toward health insurance equal to the amounts paid by the employees of local private-sector firms, the taxpayer savings would be $628 million a year. In New Jersey, Gov. Christie says government employee health benefits are 41% more expensive than those of the average Fortune 500 company.

What we suffer is a ruinously expensive collaboration between elected officials and unionized state and local workers, purchased with taxpayer money. "Scratch my back and I'll scratch yours."

No wonder the Service Employees International Union has become the nation's fastest-growing union: It represents government and health-care workers. Half of its 700,000 California members are government employees. More and more, it wins not on the picket line but at the negotiating table, where it backs up traditional strong-arming with political power. It spends vast amounts of money on initiatives that keep the government growing and the gravy flowing.

The state's teachers unions operate in a similar fashion—with the result that California's various municipalities, especially Los Angeles, face budget shortfalls in the hundreds of millions of dollars. California can no longer rely on a strong economy to support this munificence. Its unemployment rate of 12.5% runs several points higher than the national rate and its high-tech companies are choosing to expand elsewhere. Why stay in a state with such higher taxes and a cumbersome regulatory environment?

California is a horrible warning of how dreams can turn to dust. In most states, politicians face a contracting local economy and shortfalls in tax receipts. Naturally, they look to cut expenses but run into obstruction from politically powerful unions that represent state and local government employees, teachers and health-care workers who have themselves caused pension and health-care insurance costs to soar. It is not an accident that in framing the national stimulus program in 2009 Congress directed a stunning $275 billion of the $787 billion as grants to the states to support public-service employees in health care, education, etc.

The lopsided subsidies for pension and health costs are a large part of the fiscal crises at the state and local levels. The subsequent squeeze on education and infrastructure investment is undermining the very programs that have made it possible for our economy to grow.

Between New York and California, the projected deficits run about $40 billion—and that doesn't account for projected billions of dollars in the operating deficits in the states' mass transit systems or the multibillion-dollar unfunded liability in many of the state pension plans. New York would be badly hit because it is on the verge of being deprived of tax revenues by Washington's increased regulations on the financial industry, especially the hugely profitable, multitrillion-dollar market in derivatives—an industry that is critical to the economy of New York state and the country.

City government was developed to serve its citizens. Today the citizenry is working in large part to serve the government. It is always hard to shrink government spending. It is particularly difficult when public-sector unions have such a unique lever of pressure.

We have to escape this cycle or it will crush us. One way is to take labor negotiations out of the hands of vulnerable legislators and assign them to independent commissions. They would have a better shot at achieving a fair balance between appropriate salary increases and the revenues and services of local municipalities. The electorate won't swallow any more red ink.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...s_Most_Popular
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
copmagnet82
4G TL Problems & Fixes
5
06-29-2016 08:09 AM
xsilverhawkx
2G TL Problems & Fixes
4
10-05-2015 11:00 AM
iesu3423
5G TLX (2015-2020)
5
09-29-2015 08:04 AM
xsilverhawkx
2G TL Problems & Fixes
5
09-28-2015 06:51 PM
jmaxima03
Member Cars for Sale
1
09-27-2015 10:22 AM



Quick Reply: Public workers receive less pay



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:51 PM.