Better to just stop paying mortgage??
08-26-2010, 11:42 PM
#281
Social security is in trouble and its the life line of a buncha older peeps... who DO NOT want to be on it and rather be working... and keeping their homes...
I read the stories in this link, and except for one guy, the rest have just had their pants blown off...
http://custom.yahoo.com/lifelonginve...managingwealth
I read the stories in this link, and except for one guy, the rest have just had their pants blown off...
http://custom.yahoo.com/lifelonginve...managingwealth
09-08-2010, 01:20 PM
#282
Outnumbered at home
Yes another article on it. This one specifically raises the morality issue. Shocker most think people should not walk away.
http://finance.yahoo.com/loans/artic...mod=loans-home
In addition, defaulting on an obligation when one has the option of not defaulting runs against the moral grain of many borrowers. A survey taken by Fannie Mae this year indicated that 88% of Americans “do not believe it is acceptable for people to stop making payments on an underwater mortgage, while eight percent believe it is acceptable. "Underwater" borrowers "were more than twice as likely to believe stopping payments was acceptable than borrowers who were not underwater," but the great majority of underwater borrowers were still negative on the morality of stopping payment.
09-08-2010, 11:33 PM
#284
Drifting
^ I find it interesting that Fannie Mae performed the Survey- perhaps the questions were asked in a way to support their cause? Note the article referenced two types of defaults: strategic (like the OP is suggesting) and double-trigger which is a combination of lost income in addition to drop in house value.
In reading this article, I found the comments more informative that the article- one person walked after putting down 20% and doing home improvements but not paying any principal besides the original downpayment. God knows why he would choose an interest-only loan knowing he was going to retire in 5 years- guess he thought he could make his quick profit before retiring- that was a big mistake and profiles the greed of many people 5 years ago: how could houses ever go down in value?
I you think the house bubble is bad, you'll be pretty impressed by the pending bond bubble we'll see in less than 5 years because this BS mentality is happening all over again now: US BONDs can could never go down in value and money is pouring into them now. We'll see about that theory holding water with interest rates at historic lows now. Rates will eventually go up and these 30 year bonds are going to get crushed in value.
In reading this article, I found the comments more informative that the article- one person walked after putting down 20% and doing home improvements but not paying any principal besides the original downpayment. God knows why he would choose an interest-only loan knowing he was going to retire in 5 years- guess he thought he could make his quick profit before retiring- that was a big mistake and profiles the greed of many people 5 years ago: how could houses ever go down in value?
I you think the house bubble is bad, you'll be pretty impressed by the pending bond bubble we'll see in less than 5 years because this BS mentality is happening all over again now: US BONDs can could never go down in value and money is pouring into them now. We'll see about that theory holding water with interest rates at historic lows now. Rates will eventually go up and these 30 year bonds are going to get crushed in value.
09-09-2010, 09:12 AM
#285
That article was clearly bought and paid for by Fannie Mae. Its nothing more than lobbiest propeganda to try to sway the opinions of the people. The real estate market has come to a screeching halt, regardless of the low interest rates. In fact if anything, i think the low rates are HURTING the real estate market further. First of all, banks have increased requirements and restrictions to a point that the vast majority of prospective buyers and refinanciers have no way of obtaining the low rates and secondly the banks look at it as though their risk is too great to loan money at such low rates.
The reason articles like this keep coming out is to pepper the media with opinion peices and swayed studies that show a flip side. A flip side to the scary reality we are in. The banks know if more people get fed up and walk, things are going to get unbeleivably worse for them. Hell, their own studies even show this, i.e. when people know someone who defaults they are more likely to do it themselves.
The reason articles like this keep coming out is to pepper the media with opinion peices and swayed studies that show a flip side. A flip side to the scary reality we are in. The banks know if more people get fed up and walk, things are going to get unbeleivably worse for them. Hell, their own studies even show this, i.e. when people know someone who defaults they are more likely to do it themselves.
09-09-2010, 09:19 AM
#286
Team Owner
No matter who commissioned the survey, the percentages seem to match the percentages in this thread.
09-09-2010, 03:14 PM
#287
First of all, banks have increased requirements and restrictions to a point that the vast majority of prospective buyers and refinanciers have no way of obtaining the low rates and secondly the banks look at it as though their risk is too great to loan money at such low rates.
.
.
If the banks were the mafia, you'd have a cement block attached to your legs and dropped in the ocean.
09-10-2010, 08:47 AM
#288
your statement makes no sense. Every word of what i said that you quoted is 100% true documented fact.
09-10-2010, 08:54 AM
#289
Team Owner
I can't believe I have to say Bubba is more right than Gatr.
But there is sound reasoning for the banks to not give the lower rates on the underwater assets -- unless the impairment is eliminated by a cash payment to correct the equity situation, they are at higher risk for default. The interest rate isn't the problem that leads to strategic default -- it's the value of the asset relative to the mortgage. Thus these assets shouldn't qualify for the best rates.
But there is sound reasoning for the banks to not give the lower rates on the underwater assets -- unless the impairment is eliminated by a cash payment to correct the equity situation, they are at higher risk for default. The interest rate isn't the problem that leads to strategic default -- it's the value of the asset relative to the mortgage. Thus these assets shouldn't qualify for the best rates.
Last edited by svtmike; 09-10-2010 at 08:57 AM.
09-10-2010, 11:47 AM
#290
I agree with you, and this is the vicious circle we are stuck in. Those who need help cannot get help due to the circumstance you describe above. As a result, more and more fall into default and further depress the market. As a result the value of the assets continues to fall and the cycle continues.
This is where i think the government has been going about it all wrong. Trying to help out people who are already halfway out the door (lost jobs, no income, unable to keep up payments, etc) is just delaying the inevitable.
Helping those who have a solid foundation but find themselves trapped would truely start the process of pushing us out of this mess. Those like myself who find themselves utterly trapped are unable to use our solid foudation (steady jobs, strong income, high credit, etc) to help the economy because essentially we are not allowed to!
If the governemt came out with a program that helped those of us who would love to move up into bigger places, buy property, etc, the amount of real estate transactions would exponentially increase overnight, stablizing values, removing a large portion of foreclosures/short sales from the market, freeing other unfortunate homeowners from their burden (without needing government assistance), etc.
How would this work? Well some have suggested that the government come out with a plan that basically backs the negative equity in a loan on good faith or unsecured loan so that those who are NOT looking for a freebie, a handout, or "forgiveness" of their obligations can simply roll that negative equity into the mortgage of a new place at the historically low rates available right now. I think this is a brilliant idea that would really save us from further collapse..but things that are brilliant, things that actually WORK, are usually overlooked by our government in favor of plans and initiatives that dont work, help very few, are too convoluted and difficult and time consuming, cost the tax payers billions, and ultimately fail to accomplish their intended goals on every level
09-10-2010, 11:55 AM
#291
Team Owner
How would this work? Well some have suggested that the government come out with a plan that basically backs the negative equity in a loan on good faith or unsecured loan so that those who are NOT looking for a freebie, a handout, or "forgiveness" of their obligations can simply roll that negative equity into the mortgage of a new place at the historically low rates available right now.
09-10-2010, 12:03 PM
#292
I look at it this way with some numbers. Im 166k on my mortgage balance. The place is worth maybe 135k at this point. Take out realtor fees, etc, i net 120k on the sale. Give me a government backed loan for the other 46k structured like a mortgage (15 year). Now i am free to use all of my savings as a down payment on a new, larger, more approriate home and be able to obtain the low rates available right now.
People come out of college now with hundreds of thousands in unsecured student loan debt owed to the government. I have 0. i have virtually no debt at all besides this damn mortgage but without that 46k nut in my back pocket, i am stuck. and if i had that 46k nut, it would be much better suited as a downpayment on a future home to help me start off the next phase of my life with some decent equity and a decent interest rate.
09-10-2010, 12:15 PM
#293
Team Owner
09-10-2010, 07:59 PM
#294
I feel the need...
Helping those who have a solid foundation but find themselves trapped would truely start the process of pushing us out of this mess. Those like myself who find themselves utterly trapped are unable to use our solid foudation (steady jobs, strong income, high credit, etc) to help the economy because essentially we are not allowed to!
How exactly are you "trapped"? You bought a home (which you wanted and thought was a good deal) but now you have buyers remorse. Suck it up.
How much money did you capture on your first flip? How much rent would you have paid over the same time period. Okay, so you're temporarily underwater - instead of paying rent to a landlord your paying rent to the bank. Run the numbers for 30 years - you'll own an asset outright. Didn't lock in a fixed rate? Whose fault is that - oh yes, its our fault.
Why don't you just rename this the "life is unfair sometimes" thread. Damn, not blessed with Brad Pitt looks and married to Kate Beckinsale, life sucks. No twelve inch schlong, there goes your PrOn career aspirations. My broker told me Google was a good buy at $700 - shit, where do I get refund?
Look at the upside, your healthy and you have a job. You're not a crack baby, your not thronging in a Mogadishu ghetto, you're not dodging snipers and roadside bombs near Kandahar. Please, stop your whining, your sense of entitlement is embarrassing.
09-10-2010, 08:50 PM
#296
Team Owner
09-10-2010, 09:01 PM
#297
Карты убийцы
I guess you MAY be technically correct.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&r...g&ved=0CBUQkAE
In the local media, Representatives are called Congressmen, and Senator Senators.
09-10-2010, 09:11 PM
#298
Team Owner
09-10-2010, 09:24 PM
#299
Карты убийцы
09-10-2010, 09:27 PM
#300
Карты убийцы
Also the pic avatar of another member isn't as cool as you may think... begs alot of questions.
Hell, I just realized, especially with Coheeses' comments... I may have took a turn down the wrong street.
Hell, I just realized, especially with Coheeses' comments... I may have took a turn down the wrong street.
09-10-2010, 09:49 PM
#301
Team Owner
Like this? :wink:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_of_Congress
In the United States, the term Congress refers jointly to both chambers or "houses" of that country's national bicameral legislature; the term Member of Congress there applies to members of both the upper house Senate and the lower House of Representatives. Rather than "Member of Congress", the more typical honorifics and terms of address are "Senator" (or "U.S. Senator") and "Representative" (or "U.S. Representative"). In the United States, U.S. Representatives are sometimes referred to by the terms Congressman, Congresswoman and Congressperson; the terms have fallen into disfavor because of their ambiguity.
09-10-2010, 10:22 PM
#302
Карты убийцы
Oh well... call the Senators in your state and address them as a common congressmen and see how happy they are.
The needle of the dipshits is quickly going over the top in this forum.
09-10-2010, 10:28 PM
#303
Team Owner
Yes read it again... wait why does the all-knowing FOXNEWS refer to Obama (prior presidential election) as Senator Obama and not Congressman Obama.
Oh well... call the Senators in your state and address them as a common congressmen and see how happy they are.
The needle of the dipshits is quickly going over the top in this forum.
Oh well... call the Senators in your state and address them as a common congressmen and see how happy they are.
The needle of the dipshits is quickly going over the top in this forum.
I fessed up to using an ambiguous term; the dipshits appear to want to apply a specificity to it that simply was not implied and does not exist.
Have a good evening Professor.
09-12-2010, 08:46 PM
#305
I would happily sign up based on those contigencies. I think millions of others in the same boat would as well.
I look at it this way with some numbers. Im 166k on my mortgage balance. The place is worth maybe 135k at this point. Take out realtor fees, etc, i net 120k on the sale. Give me a government backed loan for the other 46k structured like a mortgage (15 year). Now i am free to use all of my savings as a down payment on a new, larger, more approriate home and be able to obtain the low rates available right now.
People come out of college now with hundreds of thousands in unsecured student loan debt owed to the government. I have 0. i have virtually no debt at all besides this damn mortgage but without that 46k nut in my back pocket, i am stuck. and if i had that 46k nut, it would be much better suited as a downpayment on a future home to help me start off the next phase of my life with some decent equity and a decent interest rate.
I look at it this way with some numbers. Im 166k on my mortgage balance. The place is worth maybe 135k at this point. Take out realtor fees, etc, i net 120k on the sale. Give me a government backed loan for the other 46k structured like a mortgage (15 year). Now i am free to use all of my savings as a down payment on a new, larger, more approriate home and be able to obtain the low rates available right now.
People come out of college now with hundreds of thousands in unsecured student loan debt owed to the government. I have 0. i have virtually no debt at all besides this damn mortgage but without that 46k nut in my back pocket, i am stuck. and if i had that 46k nut, it would be much better suited as a downpayment on a future home to help me start off the next phase of my life with some decent equity and a decent interest rate.
at you complaining about 46K in negative equity.
09-13-2010, 06:00 PM
#308
I feel the need...
NuttyPro is a classic bully. If he can't win an argument using his superior intellect, he resorts to name calling to satisfy his little ego.
I may not be as old or as wise as NuttyPro, but even a street smart kid like me who graduated from the school of hard knocks can smell
a mile away.
Nobody needs to go to evil medical school for eight years to call someone a "dipshit".
I may not be as old or as wise as NuttyPro, but even a street smart kid like me who graduated from the school of hard knocks can smell
a mile away. Nobody needs to go to evil medical school for eight years to call someone a "dipshit".
09-14-2010, 12:58 PM
#310
Карты убийцы
bul·ly1 /ˈbʊli/ Show Spelled [bool-ee] Show IPA noun, plural -lies, verb, -lied, -ly·ing, adjective, interjection
–noun
a blustering, quarrelsome, overbearing person who habitually badgers and intimidates smaller or weaker people.
http://dictionary.reference.com/brow...?db=dictionary
A douchebag who is guilty as charged... but it's nice without reading Fibromyalgia's pasting fodder.
–noun
a blustering, quarrelsome, overbearing person who habitually badgers and intimidates smaller or weaker people.
http://dictionary.reference.com/brow...?db=dictionary
A douchebag who is guilty as charged... but it's nice without reading Fibromyalgia's pasting fodder.
10-08-2010, 01:25 PM
#311
Team Owner
Bank of America halts home foreclosures in US
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39575033...s-real_estate/
Bank of America is the first U.S. bank to institute a nationwide moratorium on foreclosures as anger grows at how lenders have prepared documents to support evictions. The halt on foreclosures will take effect on Saturday and also includes sales of foreclosed property.
The moves come amid mounting political pressure on big U.S. banks to examine foreclosure-documentation problems. Bank of America's decision comes amid revelations that the banking industry had used "robo-signers," people who sign hundreds of documents a day without reviewing their contents, when foreclosing on homes.
10-08-2010, 03:39 PM
#312
Drifting
How exactly are you "trapped"? You bought a home (which you wanted and thought was a good deal) but now you have buyers remorse. Suck it up.
How much money did you capture on your first flip? How much rent would you have paid over the same time period. Okay, so you're temporarily underwater - instead of paying rent to a landlord your paying rent to the bank. Run the numbers for 30 years - you'll own an asset outright. Didn't lock in a fixed rate? Whose fault is that - oh yes, its our fault.
Why don't you just rename this the "life is unfair sometimes" thread. Damn, not blessed with Brad Pitt looks and married to Kate Beckinsale, life sucks. No twelve inch schlong, there goes your PrOn career aspirations. My broker told me Google was a good buy at $700 - shit, where do I get refund?
Look at the upside, your healthy and you have a job. You're not a crack baby, your not thronging in a Mogadishu ghetto, you're not dodging snipers and roadside bombs near Kandahar. Please, stop your whining, your sense of entitlement is embarrassing.
10-08-2010, 09:53 PM
#313
One on the right for me
10-18-2010, 06:20 PM
#314
I feel the need...
Obama's Foreclosure Inaction Is Katrina Redux
The foreclosure crisis that seems on the brink of spinning out of control may be the decisive nudge that pushes the U.S. into a double-dip recession. Banks that have only just begun to recover from the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression are about to find themselves in straitjackets.
As was the case during the aftermath to Hurricane Katrina, Washington seems not up to the task. Instead of facing the problem head-on, President Barack Obama has mostly deferred to state attorneys general. This is a terrible time for Obama to finally discover the virtue of federal restraint.
Delayed foreclosures and litigation regarding how they are carried out might cost U.S. lenders $10 billion, according to one new estimate. Questions could be raised about any foreclosed property, and the only thing between banks and a humungous legal fiasco is the possibility that trial lawyers and state attorneys general will show restraint. Ask tobacco companies how that might work out. Attorneys general are opening widespread investigations, and trial lawyers might tie banks in knots, holding out for fat class-action settlements.....
As was the case during the aftermath to Hurricane Katrina, Washington seems not up to the task. Instead of facing the problem head-on, President Barack Obama has mostly deferred to state attorneys general. This is a terrible time for Obama to finally discover the virtue of federal restraint.
Delayed foreclosures and litigation regarding how they are carried out might cost U.S. lenders $10 billion, according to one new estimate. Questions could be raised about any foreclosed property, and the only thing between banks and a humungous legal fiasco is the possibility that trial lawyers and state attorneys general will show restraint. Ask tobacco companies how that might work out. Attorneys general are opening widespread investigations, and trial lawyers might tie banks in knots, holding out for fat class-action settlements.....
10-18-2010, 08:47 PM
#315
Foreclosures freeze is about to end... remember the movie "The Thing" ... what are we defrosting / creating here in the U.S. ?
Bank of America starts thaw in foreclosure freeze
AP
Bank of America AP – FILE - In this April 16, 2010 file photo, a Bank of America branch is shown in Charlotte, N.C. Bank of …
By ALAN ZIBEL, AP Real Estate Writer Alan Zibel, Ap Real Estate Writer – 1 min ago
WASHINGTON – The pace of U.S. home foreclosures may not slow much after all.
Bank of America said Monday that it plans to resume seizing more than 100,000 homes in 23 states next week. It said it has a legal right to foreclose despite accusations that documents used in the process were flawed.
Ally Financial Inc's GMAC Mortgage unit is also resuming foreclosures once documents are fixed. Gina Proia, a spokeswoman for Ally, said that "as we review the affected files and take any remediation needed, the foreclosure process then resumes."
Analysts expect other lenders to correct problems with the way they handled documents and proceed with a wave of foreclosures that have depressed the housing market. They are likely to follow because foreclosure practices were similar from bank to bank, said banking analyst Nancy Bush of NAB Research.
"We'll be back to square one by the end of the year," she said.
The bank's move could mean that the costs of the foreclosure-document mess will wind up being less than some investors had feared just days ago. Bank shares sank last week after JPMorgan Chase & Co. said it set aside $1.3 billion in the third quarter to cover legal expenses that include the foreclosure document problems.
Shares of Charlotte, N.C.-based Bank of America had been flat earlier Monday but jumped on the news. They rose 36 cents, or 3 percent, to close at $12.34.
Bank of America Corp. said it's confident of its foreclosure decisions. The bank is still delaying foreclosures in the 27 states that don't require a judge's approval. It said it's still reviewing its cases in those states.
The bank's move comes two weeks after it began halting foreclosures nationwide amid allegations that bank employees signed but didn't read documents that may have contained errors. These employees have earned the nickname "robo-signers."
The company said it plans to resubmit documents with new signatures in the 23 states that require judicial authorization to restart the foreclosure process. It will delay fewer than 30,000 foreclosures.
"The basis for our foreclosure decisions is accurate," Dan Frahm, a Bank of America spokesman, said in announcing the bank's new approach.
Bank of America had been the only lender to halt foreclosures in all 50 states. Other companies, including Ally Financial Inc.'s GMAC Mortgage unit, PNC Financial Services Inc. and JPMorgan, have halted tens of thousands of foreclosures after similar practices became public.
Analysts at FBR Capital Markets said in a note to clients that the bank's announcement demonstrates that the foreclosure document issue may be "overblown."
Still, more problems surfaced Monday that suggest the controversy may be far from over.
A deposition released by the Florida attorney general's office revealed that the office manager at a Florida law firm under investigation for fabricating foreclosure documents signed 1,000 files a day without reviewing them. The manager also would allow paralegals to sign her name for her when she got tired, the deposition said.
Cheryl Salmons, office manager at the Law Offices of David Stern, would sign 500 files in the morning and another 500 files in the afternoon without reviewing them and with no witnesses, former assistant Kelly Scott said in a deposition released by the Florida attorney general's office.
Jeffrey Tew, an attorney for Stern's firm, didn't immediately return a phone call.
Government-controlled mortgage buyers Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have stopped referring foreclosures to Stern's firm while they review the firm's filings.
In some states, lenders can foreclose quickly on delinquent mortgage borrowers. By contrast, the 23 states in which Bank of America is restarting foreclosures use a lengthy court process. They require documents to verify information on the mortgage, including who owns it.
Those states are:
Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Nebraska, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Vermont and Wisconsin.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101019/...a_foreclosures
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