Money & Investing Learn how to get rich on the housing bubble and the bull market…

Anyone know anything about Treasuries?

Thread Tools
 
Old 12-20-2008 | 08:39 AM
  #1  
doopstr's Avatar
Thread Starter
Team Owner
 
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,466
Likes: 2,226
From: Jersey
Anyone know anything about Treasuries?

My Treasury Index Funds have done really well this year. In the two accounts I hold them they are up 30-40%. About half of this gain has happened since the FED announced last week that they are buying treasuries.

So my question is, should I take this gain now or hold?

I am considering selling because, besides the interest, they haven't done jack for about the last 4 years. It seems they were a flight to safety this year. I think that if the S&P starts to recover people will start to dump the Treasuries.

The fund is the Vanguard VUSTX

Last edited by doopstr; 12-20-2008 at 08:42 AM.
Old 12-21-2008 | 02:04 PM
  #2  
Fibonacci's Avatar
I feel the need...
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 14,957
Likes: 515
From: Motown
Originally Posted by doopstr
So my question is, should I take this gain now or hold?
Treasuries are bonds. Bonds appreciate when yields fall. Can treasury yields fall any lower than they are now on a historical basis? There lies your answer.
Old 12-22-2008 | 01:51 PM
  #3  
Fibonacci's Avatar
I feel the need...
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 14,957
Likes: 515
From: Motown
So what did you decide to do dooper?


Know what I would do, but won't tell. Keep pork too long, it will smell. Humpty sat on a wall, but he fell. Christmas came early, ring the bell. Markets move quickly, be a gazelle. Greater profits lie elsewhere, don't dwell...
Old 12-22-2008 | 03:04 PM
  #4  
Moog-Type-S's Avatar
The sizzle in the Steak
 
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 71,436
Likes: 1,877
From: Southern California
...the tech bubble...the housing /credit crisis bubble......can you guess the next one?
Old 12-22-2008 | 09:08 PM
  #5  
doopstr's Avatar
Thread Starter
Team Owner
 
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,466
Likes: 2,226
From: Jersey
I'm going to put in a sell order before the end of the year.
thx
Old 12-27-2008 | 04:07 PM
  #6  
Fibonacci's Avatar
I feel the need...
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 14,957
Likes: 515
From: Motown
Treasuries Walk, Talk Like an Old-Time Bubble

“I’m forever blowing bubbles, pretty bubbles in the air. They fly so high, nearly reach the sky.”

So goes the refrain of a 1918 hit tune. It could have been the theme song of investors piling into the U.S. Treasury market for the past six weeks.

Investors are so eager to escape the jaws of the credit crunch that on Dec. 9 they drove the three-month Treasury bill rate to negative territory for the first time since 1929. The same day, the Treasury sold $30 billion of four-week bills at a rate of zero percent.

Meanwhile, on Dec. 24, the 10-year U.S. Treasury note was yielding 2.18 percent, compared with 4.08 percent six months ago.

The flight to U.S. Treasuries is an Armageddon trade. It reflects investors’ panicked attempts to seek safety amid plummeting stock markets, collapsing property values and more than $1 trillion in losses and write-offs by banks worldwide.....
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...VwU&refer=home
Old 12-27-2008 | 05:13 PM
  #7  
doopstr's Avatar
Thread Starter
Team Owner
 
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,466
Likes: 2,226
From: Jersey
I'll be out on close Monday. Just need to find a place to stick the funds afterwards.

Any vanguard bond fund suggestions?
Old 01-04-2009 | 11:20 PM
  #8  
Fibonacci's Avatar
I feel the need...
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 14,957
Likes: 515
From: Motown
Originally Posted by doopstr
I'll be out on close Monday. Just need to find a place to stick the funds afterwards.

Any vanguard bond fund suggestions?

I'm not in retail, so don't take my advice as the bible. But personally speaking, I've had the greatest success investing with contrarian moves. Be like Jesus, find the unloved, unwanted and forlorn sectors. If you want to stay with fixed-income and Vanguard, might I suggest one of their REIT ETF's.

Happy hunting, luv that av pic.
Old 03-02-2009 | 06:47 PM
  #9  
Fibonacci's Avatar
I feel the need...
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 14,957
Likes: 515
From: Motown
‘Leave It to Beaver’ Savings Lifts U.S. Bond Holdings

U.S. government debt is gaining favor with a group of investors who lowered their exposure to Treasuries in nine of the past 11 years -- American citizens.

Merrill Lynch & Co. says U.S. bonds owned by individuals likely will account for 2 percent of households’ financial assets by 2013, up from 0.2 percent now. That level hasn’t been hit since the months following the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks, Federal Reserve data show. Americans’ direct purchases will rival the $1 trillion foreigners probably will buy in the next five years, Merrill predicts.

Increased demand, fueled by the highest U.S. savings rate in seven years and record domestic stock and real estate losses totaling $13.5 trillion, will support Treasury prices, said Tony Crescenzi, chief bond market strategist at Miller Tabak in New York. That will help keep yields and consumer interest rates down even as the government borrows record sums for President Barack Obama’s $787 billion stimulus plan.

“We are going back to the days of ‘Leave it to Beaver,’” said David Rosenberg, Merrill’s chief North American economist. “Caution and prudence will be the order of the day.”

At the end of 1957, the year Jerry Mathers debuted in the TV show’s title role as Theodore “Beaver” Cleaver, U.S. individuals held more than 2 percent of their assets in Treasuries, according to Fed statistics that exclude bonds in mutual funds.....
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=ahwrh7X7plg0
Old 03-02-2009 | 06:51 PM
  #10  
Moog-Type-S's Avatar
The sizzle in the Steak
 
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 71,436
Likes: 1,877
From: Southern California
Gee, Wally!
Old 03-02-2009 | 11:37 PM
  #11  
LaCostaRacer's Avatar
Drifting
 
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,499
Likes: 221
From: Carlsbad, CA
I don't know too much about treasuries. The little I know about them is to stay away from them. People are flocking to treasuries because of fear mostly. I don't know why someone would take a negative yield on a bond but people were.

I'm actually short 20 year treasuries using the TBT ishare- bought more today on their weakness. I project this ishare will outperform most investments on the premise of eventual rising inflation and rising fear on how the government is actually going to pay all these bonds (or even interest on the bonds) in the future. I might take some hits this month on my positions but am very confident of a profitable outcome before my long-term capital gain date kicks in for February 2010.
Old 03-03-2009 | 12:28 AM
  #12  
special-ed's Avatar
Iro Ridg .308
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,241
Likes: 9
From: CA, IL, IN
All I can say it that there is good reason why China has moved to short-term treasuries vs purchasing more of the US' long-term notes.

China wants to see if the USA can make good on it's short term debts. Who wants to buy 30 year Treasuries if the US can't even pay up on the 5 year notes? If the US can't pay up when those bonds are finally called in, you can forget China taking on anymore of the US' bad debt. As a result, other countries will take note & dump their dollars, thus dollar collapse.

Old 03-03-2009 | 12:17 PM
  #13  
amisconception's Avatar
werd
 
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 15,078
Likes: 16
Originally Posted by special-ed
As a result, other countries will take note & dump their dollars, thus dollar collapse.

That was what I felt would happen - but they'd have to dump their currencies collectively and use another reserve currency for international trade purposes.

Are foreign currencies that much stronger? I don't think so... Not in the short term.
Old 03-03-2009 | 10:57 PM
  #14  
special-ed's Avatar
Iro Ridg .308
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,241
Likes: 9
From: CA, IL, IN
Originally Posted by amisconception
That was what I felt would happen - but they'd have to dump their currencies collectively and use another reserve currency for international trade purposes.

Are foreign currencies that much stronger? I don't think so... Not in the short term.
That's what the G20 meetings and the Doha Rounds are supposed to address. It wouldn't have to mean a move to the Yuan completely as a new world reserve but either to a basket of currencies or a basket of new unified currencies instead of just relying on the USD.

We already have the Euro. There's already talk of a Pan-Asian currency but China and Japan would have to work something out. Then you have the GCC discussing monetary union. Heaven forbid we see a damn Amero but what the hell, at least Canada has their sh*t together but all of this will draw the conspiracy theorists out of the closet with their thoughts of a new world order and a single world currency.
Old 03-31-2011 | 06:14 PM
  #15  
Fibonacci's Avatar
I feel the need...
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 14,957
Likes: 515
From: Motown
Bill Gross Says U.S. Debt Has Little Value, Echoes Buffett

Bill Gross, who runs the world’s biggest bond fund at Pacific Investment Management Co., said Treasuries “have little value” because of the growing U.S. debt burden.

The U.S. has unrecorded debt of $75 trillion, or close to 500 percent of gross domestic product, counting what it owes on its bonds plus obligations for Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, Gross wrote in his monthly investment outlook. The U.S. will experience inflation, currency devaluation and low-to- negative interest rates after accounting for consumer-price gains if it doesn’t reform its entitlement programs, he said.

Pimco “has been selling Treasuries because they have little value within the context of a $75 trillion total debt burden,” Gross wrote in the report published on Newport Beach, California-based company’s website. Congress “must make ‘debt’ a four-letter word.”

The comment echoes Warren Buffett, the billionaire investor who recommended avoiding long-term fixed-income bets in U.S. dollars because the currency’s purchasing power will drop. Treasuries have handed investors a 0.1 percent loss this quarter, adding to a 2.7 percent decline in the final three months of 2010, based on Bank of America Merrill Lynch data.

President Barack Obama’s government has increased the U.S. publicly traded debt to a record $9.05 trillion, leading Gross to compare the nation to Greece, which had its credit ratings cut two steps by Standard & Poor’s on March 29.

“We are out-Greeking the Greeks,” he wrote.....
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...uffett-3-.html
Old 03-31-2011 | 09:00 PM
  #16  
LaCostaRacer's Avatar
Drifting
 
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,499
Likes: 221
From: Carlsbad, CA
I'm still short treasuries- should be interesting if the Fed actually comes through and stops buying them in June as promised- the Fed is buying 70% at the moment.

Who is going to pick up the slack? Japan - not, China - not, Pimco - not, Europe I doubt it, QE3- quite possibly because I don't believe Bernanke. Perhaps the excuse will be Japan's troubles require a new dose of QE.
Old 08-03-2011 | 07:21 AM
  #17  
doopstr's Avatar
Thread Starter
Team Owner
 
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,466
Likes: 2,226
From: Jersey
Treasuries Riding Bull Market
http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/stor...FREE&cm_ite=NA
By Andrew McCormick

NEW YORK (TheStreet) -- Contrary to very popular opinion and in conjunction with their 30-year bull market, buying U.S. Treasuries could be the best investment of 2011.

Few times in history has an investor been able to invest with a major trend and simultaneously be a contrarian. When these opportunities arise, they must not be passed over. This means seriously considering funds such as the Vanguard Long-Term Treasury Fund(VUSTX_), iShares: Barclays 20 Plus Years Treasuries(TLT_), ProShares Ultra 20+ Year Treasury(UBT_) and Direxion Daily 30-Year Treasury Bull 3X Shares(TMF_).

This investment opportunity holds three major drivers. First, U.S. Treasuries hold the benefit of a safe haven during a stock market decline and periods of uncertainty; if they naturally resume their upward trend, any market sell-off could accelerate the upward move.

Second, they remain in a massive 30-year bull market; major bull markets tend to continue further than expected and well past traditional valuations. Finally, buying U.S. Treasuries is a major contrarian play; an overwhelming majority of analysts and fund managers loathe this asset. Rarely does an investor see an opportunity with so many factors simultaneously available: the synergy aspect could be impressive.

This investment view on Treasuries isn't common. Often professionals and amateurs alike state the following reasons why a continuation of low rates and a Treasury bull market are impossible: Government bonds are in a bubble, inflation is just around the corner; the government is a debt junkie with an out-of-control deficit; and the U.S. dollar is going to devalue into oblivion.

The data these bond bears lean on isn't necessarily wrong: They just have the timing incorrect. At some point interest rates will absolutely rise for a prolonged period. It just won't be right now. So, I don't disagree with the critics; I disagree with their ability to time the trade...
Click the Link for the full article

Old 08-03-2011 | 07:24 PM
  #18  
LaCostaRacer's Avatar
Drifting
 
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,499
Likes: 221
From: Carlsbad, CA
^ Indeed, but I have all types of time on the short trade with TBT. It was comforting to see that TBT only went down .13 today from the beating the day before.

I'm planning on adding some more shorts because it's going to be brutal for the longs when that house of cards collapses. Honestly, how much lower can interest rates really go? The floor on interest rates is near if not already here.
Old 08-03-2011 | 07:24 PM
  #19  
LaCostaRacer's Avatar
Drifting
 
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,499
Likes: 221
From: Carlsbad, CA
^ Indeed, but I have all types of time on the short trade with TBT. It was comforting to see that TBT only went down .13 today from the beating the day before.

I'm planning on adding some more shorts because it's going to be brutal for the longs when that house of cards collapses. Honestly, how much lower can interest rates really go? The floor on interest rates is near if not already here.
Old 08-04-2011 | 11:01 AM
  #20  
doopstr's Avatar
Thread Starter
Team Owner
 
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,466
Likes: 2,226
From: Jersey
FWIW the 10 year got down to 2.08 in 2008 http://www.treasury.gov/resource-cen...Year&year=2008

Closed 2.64 yesterday.
Looks like another "flight to safety" is gong on.
Old 08-04-2011 | 09:21 PM
  #21  
LaCostaRacer's Avatar
Drifting
 
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,499
Likes: 221
From: Carlsbad, CA
Thanks for the info on this- the yield is now 2.47 so I guess there's still a little more left in treasuries possibly. The difference this time is I think the country is weaker in 2011 than it was in 2008 so we could be very close to a bottom this time around though. Once again Bonds were STRONG today,so I won't be adding more shorts yet- perhaps next week. Tomorrow could be another rough day possibly. There was not enough fear today to justify a bottom in this market- we need more fear before a bottom will be found.
Old 08-04-2011 | 11:25 PM
  #22  
LaCostaRacer's Avatar
Drifting
 
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,499
Likes: 221
From: Carlsbad, CA
Some more thoughts on where the bottom might be on U.S. yields.

The current yield quote for 10yr is now 2.39. In looking at yield of other countries, we have Japan at 1.00 and the Swiss at 1.21 for the lowest yields. I don't see any way U.S. yields are going to get that low since those currencies are stronger than the Dollar.

Germany is now at 2.30% which seems like a reasonable first test for how low TBills will go- do we think U.S. yields are going below those? If that is the case then we're there Friday or Monday next week.

I would guess that the lowest floor could be as low as a 1.8% yield as the mid-point of current rate and the Swiss. If that happens, I'll short more Treasuries using available cash and some 'silver bullets' from other investments.

It seems like U.S. 10yrs should be closer to Australia which are around 4.5% so that would be a good target for selling some quick gains on TBT positions for those that like to count chickens before they hatch. If so, that will be a 2x profit for you when (and not if) it comes.
Old 09-21-2011 | 11:37 PM
  #23  
LaCostaRacer's Avatar
Drifting
 
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,499
Likes: 221
From: Carlsbad, CA
Wow- in 6 week's time the 10 year U.S. bond is now at 1.82% from the 2.39% referenced above. This is now near the 1.8% floor I referenced as a ballpark low. The German bond is now at 1.77% so the U.S. rate has edged much closer since last time.

I find it interesting that the Japan bond is only down to .98% from 1.00 of last month- that has to be the bottom. The Swiss now have the lowest 10 yr at .91% - yikes that's low!

The 'twist' is now formalized by our bogus leaders at the FED- the market certainly did not like what it heard going down -289 points today with another 50 point drop factored with futures. It's going to be brutal for holders of these 30 year bonds when interest rates ultimately go up- long bonds tank when interest rates go up. It's no surprise Banks tanked today since they're going to feel the 'squeeze' from the 'twist'. It's also no surprise SKF (short for financials) had a 9.5% gain today.

I guess it's time to short bonds and banks some more- we're at 60+ year lows now for interest rates. It was only 5 years ago when you could get a 1 year CD paying 4%- my times have change and quickly.
Old 09-22-2011 | 06:37 AM
  #24  
doopstr's Avatar
Thread Starter
Team Owner
 
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,466
Likes: 2,226
From: Jersey
Why do you think it's time to short bonds? The FED is moving into long term bonds to keep rates low, or make them lower. That should make the bond prices move up, no?
I thought the VUSTX was out of gas in the 12s, now it's 13.59. I could understand shorting bonds once the FED is finally finished buying, but not now.

Last edited by doopstr; 09-22-2011 at 06:40 AM.
Old 09-22-2011 | 10:36 AM
  #25  
Moog-Type-S's Avatar
The sizzle in the Steak
 
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 71,436
Likes: 1,877
From: Southern California
The Twist: It's not about bringing down rates.....it's because nobody wants to buy our long term debt.
Old 09-22-2011 | 02:32 PM
  #26  
doopstr's Avatar
Thread Starter
Team Owner
 
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,466
Likes: 2,226
From: Jersey
Don't fight the FED?
Old 09-22-2011 | 02:54 PM
  #27  
LaCostaRacer's Avatar
Drifting
 
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,499
Likes: 221
From: Carlsbad, CA
Originally Posted by doopstr
Why do you think it's time to short bonds? The FED is moving into long term bonds to keep rates low, or make them lower. That should make the bond prices move up, no?
I thought the VUSTX was out of gas in the 12s, now it's 13.59. I could understand shorting bonds once the FED is finally finished buying, but not now.
1. The FED is (only) buying 400B in long term bonds- compared to the outstanding debt it's not a lot of fire power to keep bond prices high and interest rates low. The FED can always do some more, but each time it acts it the effect gets weaker. This is a losing fight the FED is doing and it will definitely lose the battle.

2. Just how low will rates get? I already noted Japan rates which appeared to be at the floor hasn't moved much. Today's 10 yr UST is no 1.71 and the Swiss are now at .85. The Swiss can't go down to zero because who would buy those bonds? It would be better to bury your Francs in the back yard and not lock yourself into a 10yr investment.

3. Look at other countries that don't have the financial issues as the U.S. - Australia is a good case- I see their rates are 4.08 as of now. That seems reasonable considering a 1 yr CD was that much just 5 years ago. If I wanted to buy bonds, I would look to Australia instead of buying U.S. bonds at 1.71% and German bonds at 1.67%.

4. I'm a contrarian at heart- I like to do the opposite of the market especially when it seems very out of whack like it does now. I'm also patient so there's no issue for me to wait 2 years or longer to make my money. After all interest rates are so low so I'm not losing a bunch of opportunity costs keeping a long-term short on bonds. Being a contrarian, I just added to my TBT holdings today and plan on doing this for the next few months on any downswing in interest rates- every 2 weeks another position added. I have enough 'ammo' to keep this up for a while and will be averaging in since nobody can call this bottom.
Old 10-16-2011 | 06:49 PM
  #28  
LaCostaRacer's Avatar
Drifting
 
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,499
Likes: 221
From: Carlsbad, CA
If my Bloomberg searches worked, I count that the FED so far has spent $14B of its $400B commitment for operation 'twist'- there is supposedly another $30B to be spent this month alone if the headlines are accurate.


The ironic thing is that bond interest rates have gone up from 2.76% on Oct 1st (before buying started on the 3rd) to the current 3.22% now. That's a wilder swing to the upside than we saw earlier to the downside and this is with the FED buying $13B in bonds.

So the FED has spent 3.5% of its budget buying bonds and the interest rates have actually gone up by 17%- I don't think that was the direction Bernanke was planning when he announced this screwball program in September. I would have also expected bond interest rates to continue lower but once again what you expect is not what actually happens. Perhaps the next spending of $30B might revert the upward trend in rates? I'm glad to be short those bonds now.
Old 10-16-2011 | 07:40 PM
  #29  
doopstr's Avatar
Thread Starter
Team Owner
 
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,466
Likes: 2,226
From: Jersey
I think you may be in a good position with the TBT now. IMO it's risky to fight the FED though.

The vustx seems to sell off when it sees these pops. Note the interesting action when compared to the S&P500. If the S&P starts to get beat up again then the vustx will more than likely rise.
Old 10-17-2011 | 09:43 PM
  #30  
LaCostaRacer's Avatar
Drifting
 
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,499
Likes: 221
From: Carlsbad, CA
Thanks for the charts Doopstr. I have noticed the bond/stock trends and today was a good example of this relationship. At the moment, whenever there is turmoil in Europe, the U.S. equity markets dump and U.S. bonds go up- exactly like what happened today. The next few weeks could still be tough- hopefully the Fed sells their short term bonds on days like today and buys the long term bonds when they go down on good Europe up days.

It will certainly interesting seeing how things go this next year.
Old 11-02-2011 | 06:58 PM
  #31  
Fibonacci's Avatar
I feel the need...
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 14,957
Likes: 515
From: Motown
Bonds Beat Stocks Over 30 Years for First Time Since 1861

By Cordell Eddings
Oct. 31 (Bloomberg) -- The biggest bond gains in almost a decade have pushed returns on Treasuries above stocks over the past 30 years, the first time that’s happened since before the Civil War.

Fixed-income investments advanced 6.25 percent this year, almost triple the 2.18 percent rise in the Standard & Poor’s 500 Index through last week, according to Bank of America Merrill Lynch indexes. Debt markets are on track to return 7.63 percent this year, the most since 2002, the data show. Long-term government bonds have gained 11.5 percent a year on average over the past three decades, beating the 10.8 percent increase in the S&P 500, said Jim Bianco, president of Bianco Research in Chicago.

The combination of a core U.S. inflation rate that has averaged 1.5 percent this year, the Federal Reserve’s decision to keep its target interest rate for overnight loans between banks near zero through 2013, slower economic growth and the highest savings rate since the global credit crisis have made bonds the best assets to own this year. Not only have bonds knocked stocks from their perch as the dominant long-term investment, their returns proved everyone from Bill Gross to Meredith Whitney and Nassim Nicholas Taleb wrong......
http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...ince-1861.html
Old 12-05-2011 | 06:50 PM
  #32  
Fibonacci's Avatar
I feel the need...
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 14,957
Likes: 515
From: Motown
Treasury Welcomes Bund Losses With U.S. Seeking $1 Trillion

By Susanne Walker and Anchalee Worrachate Dec. 5 (Bloomberg) -- Funding next year’s $1.3 trillion U.S. budget deficit may get a boost from Germany as bunds underperform Treasuries for the first time since the European debt crisis began in 2009.

While the U.S. needs to double bond sales to investors after the Federal Reserve reduced purchases, Treasuries due in 10 years or more are 2011’s best-performing sovereign securities, returning 26 percent as of Nov. 30, according to Bloomberg/EFFAS indexes. German 30-year bunds yielded more than their U.S. peers last month for the first time since May 2009 as the government was only able to find buyers for 65 percent of a 6 billion euro ($8.1 billion) offering on Nov. 23, its worst auction in 16 years.

Germany may be stripped of its AAA credit ratings as 15 euro-zone nations face downgrades by Standard & Poor’s as the region’s debt crisis deepens, underscoring the relative safety of and growing demand for Treasuries even as fixed-income measures show U.S. debt is about the most expensive on record. Bunds, Europe’s fixed-income benchmark, yielded a record high relative to Swedish bonds on Nov. 25, as the euro-region’s debt crisis begins to infect even the most stable economies.....
http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...-trillion.html
Old 03-30-2012 | 05:44 AM
  #33  
Fibonacci's Avatar
I feel the need...
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 14,957
Likes: 515
From: Motown
Demand for U.S. Debt Is Not Limitless

In 2011, the Fed purchased a stunning 61% of Treasury issuance. That can't last.

By LAWRENCE GOODMAN

The conventional wisdom that nearly infinite demand exists for U.S. Treasury debt is flawed and especially dangerous at a time of record U.S. sovereign debt issuance.

The recently released Federal Reserve Flow of Funds report for all of 2011 reveals that Federal Reserve purchases of Treasury debt mask reduced demand for U.S. sovereign obligations. Last year the Fed purchased a stunning 61% of the total net Treasury issuance, up from negligible amounts prior to the 2008 financial crisis. This not only creates the false appearance of limitless demand for U.S. debt but also blunts any sense of urgency to reduce supersized budget deficits.

Still, the outdated notion of never-ending buyers for U.S. debt is perpetuated by many. For instance, in recent testimony before the Senate Budget Committee, former Federal Reserve Board Vice Chairman Alan Blinder said, "If you look at the markets, they're practically falling over themselves to lend money to the federal government." Sadly, that's no longer accurate.

It is true that the U.S. government has never been more dependent on financial markets to pay its bills.....
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...275393064.html
Old 04-03-2012 | 11:37 PM
  #34  
LaCostaRacer's Avatar
Drifting
 
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,499
Likes: 221
From: Carlsbad, CA
The 20+ year bond has done a big drop since the beginning of this year. I use the TLT (110.58) for technical charts and this is now at long-term support of the 200 day Exp. Moving Average now at 110.73. Perhaps this is because the FED has slowed down its purchases this year and normal market forces are raising rates?

Despite the FED's posturing, I figure the FED will announce a QE3 if TLT gets to 90, if not before. The U.S. Government needs to preserve its access to cheap capital for funding programs so the FED is going to do whatever it takes and explain away any concerns regarding the I-word (inflation). The only way to do that is to buy up all the bonds to give the feeling that there is demand for such securities. If rates jack up to 5% like Italy is paying for 10 years, the party will be over for every increasing U.S. deficits.
Old 06-12-2013 | 06:01 PM
  #35  
doopstr's Avatar
Thread Starter
Team Owner
 
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,466
Likes: 2,226
From: Jersey
TBT closed over $70 today. First time since may 2012.
Old 06-15-2013 | 12:32 PM
  #36  
LaCostaRacer's Avatar
Drifting
 
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,499
Likes: 221
From: Carlsbad, CA
^yep- the TBT (68.38) is developing a nice chart pattern. About 1/2 my positions are now profitable and I'm looking to add more to TBT now that 70 has been broken.

All eyes and ears will be on Ben Bernanke this coming week. I don't expect him to really say anything because he is a little stuck with his position of holding 2+ Trillion in Treasuries. Think about it: so much trepidation on 'tapering'. Tapering is simply not buying as much as you have in the past and is nothing compared to 'selling'.

The market is beginning to figure out that the Fed does not have an exit strategy on this position and will slowly sell positions and certainly not buy new positions in Treasuries.

Anyone play the card game hearts? This treasury scenario is a little like having everybody know you have the Queen of Spades and they know you can't run the deck- you are in trouble!
Old 06-19-2013 | 09:27 PM
  #37  
LaCostaRacer's Avatar
Drifting
 
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,499
Likes: 221
From: Carlsbad, CA
TBT (70.36) had a great day even with the Fed's statement about continuing the QE with 45B of Bond purchases a month. It closed +$1.37 for the day and well above the mid-point of the daily range. The market is now betting against the Fed in some ways.

Here's a snippet of the statement so we can see how things might change in a year:

To support continued progress toward maximum employment and price stability, the Committee expects that a highly accommodative stance of monetary policy will remain appropriate for a considerable time after the asset purchase program ends and the economic recovery strengthens. In particular, the Committee decided to keep the target range for the federal funds rate at 0 to 1/4 percent and currently anticipates that this exceptionally low range for the federal funds rate will be appropriate at least as long as the unemployment rate remains above 6-1/2 percent, inflation between one and two years ahead is projected to be no more than a half percentage point above the Committee's 2 percent longer-run goal, and longer-term inflation expectations continue to be well anchored. In determining how long to maintain a highly accommodative stance of monetary policy, the Committee will also consider other information, including additional measures of labor market conditions, indicators of inflation pressures and inflation expectations, and readings on financial developments. When the Committee decides to begin to remove policy accommodation, it will take a balanced approach consistent with its longer-run goals of maximum employment and inflation of 2 percent.
Old 06-20-2013 | 03:14 PM
  #38  
doopstr's Avatar
Thread Starter
Team Owner
 
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,466
Likes: 2,226
From: Jersey
Old 06-20-2013 | 11:34 PM
  #39  
LaCostaRacer's Avatar
Drifting
 
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,499
Likes: 221
From: Carlsbad, CA
TBT (73.00) had another impressive day in an otherwise down market. Now that 70/71 resistance has been broken the next test will be 76 and then 83 after that. My price target is 86 come year end 2013.
Old 07-05-2013 | 03:22 PM
  #40  
LaCostaRacer's Avatar
Drifting
 
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,499
Likes: 221
From: Carlsbad, CA
TBT (77.50) had another impressive day today with the sell-off in bonds. It increased $5.36 or 7.39% today alone. This result is compounded by the fact that over 7M shares traded which is significantly higher volume for a holiday light volume trade day.

The resistance at 76 has just been broken today and the $86 end of the year price target is looking very achievable. I expect a pullback in this security this next couple of weeks and hope to add to my ever increasing position.

So far, so good on trading the short-side of treasuries this year.


Quick Reply: Anyone know anything about Treasuries?



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:27 AM.