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Just saw my first one in the wild (not on a dealer lot), and looks pretty good in motion. But I can't begin to imagine how much ADM this sucker paid to get the first non-demo off the truck, esp here in the Bay Area, CA where folks are perceived to have deeper pockets.
It's basically the FL5 frenzy all over again, except now they're trading in that car and getting reamed, on top of being underwater already due to high interest rates (but it's easier than patiently waiting for a private sale). Then wash, rinse, and repeat for the next shiny new thing from Honda/Acura, BMW, Tesla, etc. every 1-2 years when the boredom kicks in again.
You're exactly correct. Strangely, on another Integra enthusiast site, most people report purchasing their new ITSs at MSRP, sometimes with additional accessories (admittedly a small and not random sample size). There seem to be a number of Acura dealers selling the ITS at MSRP. But these dealers also have long waiting lists, meaning people likely won't get their car until next year. During the peak of the "supply chain" frenzy last year, we ordered our A Spec Integra in May and picked it up Thanksgiving week -- almost exactly a six-month wait. For the "want it now" purchasers, there will be premiums paid.
In two years we'll be moving to a new house and I'll have more room in the garage for cars. Hopefully by then they'll have a Phoenix Yellow option because I fully intend on having an ITS in one of those garage spots.
In two years we'll be moving to a new house and I'll have more room in the garage for cars. Hopefully by then they'll have a Phoenix Yellow option because I fully intend on having an ITS in one of those garage spots.
You already got rid of your Integra? Any particular reason?
You already got rid of your Integra? Any particular reason?
Bronco order came in ahead of schedule and I only have space for one. If it didn't come in, I would have upgraded to the ITS (the dealership I had been working with was selling them with no markups if you placed a pre-order)
The regular Integra was a fun car to drive, but it just didn't spark joy because it's missing something: power and sound. At least my Abarth (which was just as slow) sounded amazing and made the driving experience that much more enjoyable.
My Perf Red ITS arrived ahead of time at the dealer, on Saturday. I saw it immediately after it was off the truck. I got to sit in it with only 1 mile on the odometer. I had the short opportunity for more pics but chose to bask in the moment instaed. Perf Red looks AMAZING in person and the flake should really sparkle in the sun. I am now in process of selling my RLX to CarMax, and should be driving home in the ITS Thursday if all goes well. Will have better pics then. Can hardly wait.
Awesome, First ITS I've seen in PRP. We have the same color on our A Spec. When it's clean and the sun hits it, the paint is absolutely amazing for a production car.
Hope to see your impressions once you take possession.
It's an overpriced car as-is (MSRP), let alone what dealers have been asking for it. I've seen plenty of them listed anywhere from $70K to $85K USD. It is absolutely laughable. There is so much competition once you get to $50K. For the money they're asking (again, MSRP; I won't even comment on the absurd markups); it HAD to come with SH-AWD and offer optional DCT. Honda put ZERO effort into Integra. Base is carbon-copy Civic Touring hatch (1.5T CVT). A-Spec is dressed up Si. Type S is copy/paste Type R. For all the hate it got, ILX (base) was a far better car (2.4L NA 8DCT). The main problem with ITS MSRP is the fact Type R is overpriced to begin with. That car jumped from $37K to $45K MSRP without any explanation or real upgrade from previous gen. Also, ITS is missing some luxury features that $53K luxury brand compact car cannot omit, such as cooled seats and rear vents (among other head scratchers). So it is what it is. TLX Type S is only few grand more and you get a turbo V6 plus SH-AWD.
It's an overpriced car as-is (MSRP), let alone what dealers have been asking for it. I've seen plenty of them listed anywhere from $70K to $85K USD. It is absolutely laughable. There is so much competition once you get to $50K. For the money they're asking (again, MSRP; I won't even comment on the absurd markups); it HAD to come with SH-AWD and offer optional DCT. Honda put ZERO effort into Integra. Base is carbon-copy Civic Touring hatch (1.5T CVT). A-Spec is dressed up Si. Type S is copy/paste Type R. For all the hate it got, ILX (base) was a far better car (2.4L NA 8DCT). The main problem with ITS MSRP is the fact Type R is overpriced to begin with. That car jumped from $37K to $45K MSRP without any explanation or real upgrade from previous gen. Also, ITS is missing some luxury features that $53K luxury brand compact car cannot omit, such as cooled seats and rear vents (among other head scratchers). So it is what it is. TLX Type S is only few grand more and you get a turbo V6 plus SH-AWD.
It doensn't take a rocket surgeon to understand why they increased the CTR price; they want to absorb all the excess consumer value rather than let the dealerships take it all. Even in the last model year the FK8 was selling for well over sticker at most dealership. If that's what the market bears, then it makes sense for Honda to increase the price so that they (and not the dealership) gets the excess.
As for the TLX Type S, even for the same price I would take the ITS because it has a manual and is much more track focused. The TLX Type S at the end of the day is merely a mid-tier performance trim that's more at home cruising on the highway than it is on a track. If the ITS had a DCT and not a manual, there are many other cars I would rather buy for that price, but in the current world we live in it is the only option for those of us who value shifting our own gears. The next closest premium/luxury performance car that comes with a manual is the CT4-V Blackwing, and that's in a whole different league. Whether or not you put that much value on it having a manual I don't really care, but that's the key differentiator for the car, and for me I'm able to overlook its other deficiencies because of it.
Interesting to see that the ITS is faster from a roll than the FL5. I haven't driven an FL5 yet, but it did feel like the ITS pulls harder in 3rd gear and above than the FK8.
I think the list of good handling sedans with 6MT under 100 K holds three cars (maybe I've missed one or two, but you get the picture): VW Golf R, Blackwing CT4 and ITS.
All the criticisms of the ITS along the lines of "it won't beat a 3 year old V8 Mustang in a drag race" just flat miss the point of the ITS.
The car was designed first to be a joy to drive -- it is. Second, the car was designed to go fast around a race course or a windy canyon road -- it does. It's positioning (including 6MT) may not be what some are looking for, but for those seeking those traits, the ITS is a very attractive vehicle. Hence the over-inflated prices at the moment. (Which I hope will recede some in the not too distant future).
It doesn't matter what reviewers and people say! At the end of the day, Integra is a fantastic car. Acura really nailed it. Without going any further, the sales number speaks for itself. 16K units! All we can say keep up the great work, Acura.
It doensn't take a rocket surgeon to understand why they increased the CTR price; they want to absorb all the excess consumer value rather than let the dealerships take it all. Even in the last model year the FK8 was selling for well over sticker at most dealership. If that's what the market bears, then it makes sense for Honda to increase the price so that they (and not the dealership) gets the excess.
As for the TLX Type S, even for the same price I would take the ITS because it has a manual and is much more track focused. The TLX Type S at the end of the day is merely a mid-tier performance trim that's more at home cruising on the highway than it is on a track. If the ITS had a DCT and not a manual, there are many other cars I would rather buy for that price, but in the current world we live in it is the only option for those of us who value shifting our own gears. The next closest premium/luxury performance car that comes with a manual is the CT4-V Blackwing, and that's in a whole different league. Whether or not you put that much value on it having a manual I don't really care, but that's the key differentiator for the car, and for me I'm able to overlook its other deficiencies because of it.
That's like increasing the speed because someone is tailgating you. They'll just tailgate you at the new speed you picked up, except now you're about to get a ticket. Same shit happened with CTR; they increased the MSRP and dealers just increased ADM by that much.
Also, the "track focused" part...what track lol. Find me an easily accessible track here in the US. I just got back from a month in Europe and that statement is legit there but here in the US is comical.
That's like increasing the speed because someone is tailgating you. They'll just tailgate you at the new speed you picked up, except now you're about to get a ticket. Same shit happened with CTR; they increased the MSRP and dealers just increased ADM by that much.
Also, the "track focused" part...what track lol. Find me an easily accessible track here in the US. I just got back from a month in Europe and that statement is legit there but here in the US is comical.
100% accurate!
Anyone here buying a sedan for their family or daily commute (TLX, 3 series, A4, C class and the list goes on) and think it should be track focused, simply makes me laugh! Who buys a TLX or a M340i to go to track and proof that my car is faster than yours...All these sedans including ITS are daily commuters! Just drive and have fun to work or kids school. Those who are looking for track cars don't buy TLX or S4!
So we are finding out no one cares lol. We only have one of the five units sold, three people backed out. They didn’t want Waite and they were too expensive. And we are already seeing them on auction sites. It’s no civic type R.
If you're selling them for big markups over MSRP, I'm not surprised no one cares and that you're sitting with them. Most of the Type S buyers on Integra Forums report getting them for ADM.
Every one that has come into our dealer so far (except the PWP/Red demo) has been sold when it hits the lot (at MSRP).
The only one I've seen locally on Autotrader is one that a reseller bought at MSRP and is now trying to sell at MSRP + 10K (with nearly 200 miles on it).
If you're selling them for big markups over MSRP, I'm not surprised no one cares and that you're sitting with them. Most of the Type S buyers on Integra Forums report getting them for ADM.
Every one that has come into our dealer so far (except the PWP/Red demo) has been sold when it hits the lot (at MSRP).
The only one I've seen locally on Autotrader is one that a reseller bought at MSRP and is now trying to sell at MSRP + 10K (with nearly 200 miles on it).
nope. We are $5k over. And about to go MSRP. Just no interest.
I think of 5K as a big markup -- almost 10%. When plenty of others (most, it seems) are buying them at MSRP, I can see why no one would be interested.
I know of two dealers in a locale, one that sells at MSRP and the other that charges lots of garbage fees and add-ons. The first has a long list of ITS buyers in line and can't keep the cars in stock. The other does not have those "problems."
nope. We are $5k over. And about to go MSRP. Just no interest.
Throw free transit into it and I'm sure you'll be able to sell it for a few thousand over MSRP to a California buyer. Locally here they're still commanding $10K-$15K over MSRP and people are buying them up.
Some time ago, some guy on Reddit said his dealer refused to order any more TEP cars. It was such a polarizing color. After the few people who loved the color got them, they couldn't give them away. Even during peak shortages, they had to sell the TEPs for discounts because nobody wanted them. They would only special order TEP if someone came in specifically asking for it. He said since they refused to order them, they hadn't had a single order. I would imagine there's a reason that TEP is such a limited color with the ITS as well.
Yeah, as a dealer told me about that kind of color is some love it and many hate it and there are few people in the middle. To me it's one of those colors that I can appreciate it for someone else to own but I would regret purchasing it immediately. Then again the blue was too flashy for my taste and I regreted that. Gold is way past the blue for flash to me.
I'd rather have the heavier and faster TLX Type S at that price...
You can get an S5 prestige package, fine napa leather, 360 camera, massage seats, sport differential heads up display and more for less than that. Goes faster, stops shorter and more luxury. Nobody in their right mind is shelling out close to 70k for a Integra. Good lord, car doesn't even have homelink to open your garage.
Yeah - I agree that at a markup the ITS quickly loses its value. I'll even concede that at MSRP it's a stretch these days as you'd have to really want a manual car with a relatively reliable brand behind it considering the other options around that price range with similar sporting intentions and performance.The VW Golf R and Audi S3 being particularly close in terms of price but also faster, at least in a straight line.
I personally believe the ITS is a great car and also I find it to be good enough value at MSRP to the point that I'm looking to get one. I would absolutely not get one with any markup though. Yes, the S3 and Golf R are examples of faster vehicles and the Golf R might even be cheaper if you can find a dealer selling one without a markup, but I've had a few VW GTIs (each of which has water pumps and thermostats being common problems despite engine revisions between each one), my wife's Audi had the engine blow up despite being regularly maintained, and I've had a couple BMWs too (2009 328 coupe that was solid, 2011 335i that had every common issue reported in the forums but I loved the heck out of it anyway). While I think the big German marques make some of the best-feeling driver's cars in the world, I got tired of worrying about what might break next. My impressions of the ITS are that it drives just as well, if not better, than some of the German cars I've had. And with Acura, I'll get the benefit of the car being relatively/statistically more reliable and cheaper to maintain mechanically. Credit to BMW in particular though, I think I saw that their reliability ratings have improved a LOT since I had my 2011 335. I've read that the newer 2.0L turbo 4cyl and B58 I6 are relatively trouble-free while offering great performance and gas mileage.
I've driven the demo ITS at a couple dealerships and I really enjoyed the overall comfort and performance. It's all very usable on public roads and you could even argue that you wouldn't use all of the power depending on where you live and what kind of traffic you deal with. The interior space is plenty for a family, as long as you don't have anyone too tall sitting in the back, and the trunk has a good amount of room for stuff. Golf R and S3 are both smaller on the inside. I'll probably miss having AWD, but I've driven many northern midwest winters with winter tires without issues.
Getting back to the original topic: I think there's interest in the car, just not nearly as much with markups, and understandably so. Two dealers in my area are selling at MSRP with no required accessories/warranty packages and the waitlists are at least 12 deep with the estimated wait expected to be around 12 months, at a minimum. I happen to be getting lucky in that one of the dealerships where I put down a deposit got a "surprise" LCM ITS w/black interior and no one on the list before me wanted that color combo so I got the call for it . A perk of not being too picky about color, but I completely understand if others are being more particular about it. My wait isn't officially over until I sign the paperwork and drive off with the car, but barring anything unexpected happening in the next couple weeks or so, I'm looking forward to having it!
Last edited by norsairius; 08-28-2023 at 08:47 AM.
Yeah - I agree that at a markup the ITS quickly loses its value. I'll even concede that at MSRP it's a stretch these days as you'd have to really want a manual car with a relatively reliable brand behind it considering the other options around that price range with similar sporting intentions and performance.The VW Golf R and Audi S3 being particularly close in terms of price but also faster, at least in a straight line.
I personally believe the ITS is a great car and also I find it to be good enough value at MSRP to the point that I'm looking to get one. I would absolutely not get one with any markup though. Yes, the S3 and Golf R are examples of faster vehicles and the Golf R might even be cheaper if you can find a dealer selling one without a markup, but I've had a few VW GTIs (each of which has water pumps and thermostats being common problems despite engine revisions between each one), my wife's Audi had the engine blow up despite being regularly maintained, and I've had a couple BMWs too (2009 328 coupe that was solid, 2011 335i that had every common issue reported in the forums but I loved the heck out of it anyway). While I think the big German marques make some of the best-feeling driver's cars in the world, I got tired of worrying about what might break next. My impressions of the ITS are that it drives just as well, if not better, than some of the German cars I've had. And with Acura, I'll get the benefit of the car being relatively/statistically more reliable and cheaper to maintain mechanically. Credit to BMW in particular though, I think I saw that their reliability ratings have improved a LOT since I had my 2011 335. I've read that the newer 2.0L turbo 4cyl and B58 I6 are relatively trouble-free while offering great performance and gas mileage.
I've driven the demo ITS at a couple dealerships and I really enjoyed the overall comfort and performance. It's all very usable on public roads and you could even argue that you wouldn't use all of the power depending on where you live and what kind of traffic you deal with. The interior space is plenty for a family, as long as you don't have anyone too tall sitting in the back, and the trunk has a good amount of room for stuff. Golf R and S3 are both smaller on the inside. I'll probably miss having AWD, but I've driven many northern midwest winters with winter tires without issues.
Getting back to the original topic: I think there's interest in the car, just not nearly as much with markups, and understandably so. Two dealers in my area are selling at MSRP with no required accessories/warranty packages and the waitlists are at least 12 deep with the estimated wait expected to be around 12 months, at a minimum. I happen to be getting lucky in that one of the dealerships where I put down a deposit got a "surprise" LCM ITS w/black interior and no one on the list before me wanted that color combo so I got the call for it . A perk of not being too picky about color, but I completely understand if others are being more particular about it. My wait isn't officially over until I sign the paperwork and drive off with the car, but barring anything unexpected happening in the next couple weeks or so, I'm looking forward to having it!
Is this replacing your '21 TLX Tech or in addition to?
Yeah - I agree that at a markup the ITS quickly loses its value. I'll even concede that at MSRP it's a stretch these days as you'd have to really want a manual car with a relatively reliable brand behind it considering the other options around that price range with similar sporting intentions and performance.The VW Golf R and Audi S3 being particularly close in terms of price but also faster, at least in a straight line.
I personally believe the ITS is a great car and also I find it to be good enough value at MSRP to the point that I'm looking to get one. I would absolutely not get one with any markup though. Yes, the S3 and Golf R are examples of faster vehicles and the Golf R might even be cheaper if you can find a dealer selling one without a markup, but I've had a few VW GTIs (each of which has water pumps and thermostats being common problems despite engine revisions between each one), my wife's Audi had the engine blow up despite being regularly maintained, and I've had a couple BMWs too (2009 328 coupe that was solid, 2011 335i that had every common issue reported in the forums but I loved the heck out of it anyway). While I think the big German marques make some of the best-feeling driver's cars in the world, I got tired of worrying about what might break next. My impressions of the ITS are that it drives just as well, if not better, than some of the German cars I've had. And with Acura, I'll get the benefit of the car being relatively/statistically more reliable and cheaper to maintain mechanically. Credit to BMW in particular though, I think I saw that their reliability ratings have improved a LOT since I had my 2011 335. I've read that the newer 2.0L turbo 4cyl and B58 I6 are relatively trouble-free while offering great performance and gas mileage.
I've driven the demo ITS at a couple dealerships and I really enjoyed the overall comfort and performance. It's all very usable on public roads and you could even argue that you wouldn't use all of the power depending on where you live and what kind of traffic you deal with. The interior space is plenty for a family, as long as you don't have anyone too tall sitting in the back, and the trunk has a good amount of room for stuff. Golf R and S3 are both smaller on the inside. I'll probably miss having AWD, but I've driven many northern midwest winters with winter tires without issues.
Getting back to the original topic: I think there's interest in the car, just not nearly as much with markups, and understandably so. Two dealers in my area are selling at MSRP with no required accessories/warranty packages and the waitlists are at least 12 deep with the estimated wait expected to be around 12 months, at a minimum. I happen to be getting lucky in that one of the dealerships where I put down a deposit got a "surprise" LCM ITS w/black interior and no one on the list before me wanted that color combo so I got the call for it . A perk of not being too picky about color, but I completely understand if others are being more particular about it. My wait isn't officially over until I sign the paperwork and drive off with the car, but barring anything unexpected happening in the next couple weeks or so, I'm looking forward to having it!
Congrats on your good luck. I agree 100% with you about not paying over MSRP and for forced "options." But at 52K, I don't think you can do better, all things considered. You just need to be patient and, as in your case, be poised to strike when the iron is hot.
The VW group ownership issues you cite (and some personal experiences) mean that the VW/Audi alternatives are not remotely on my list of possibilities.
Please report back when you get your ITS. From all accounts, you're going to love it.
Thanks and I'll be sure to report back after I get the car!
With regards to the German cars I've had:
To be fair, none of my GTIs did actually have issues with their thermostats or water pumps, but the forums for the Mark 5, 6, and 7/7.5 GTIs all feature a number of threads with stories of those parts failing. I recall reading that some went as far as to say that the GTI has always had issues with water pumps since the Mark 1. I'm not sure why it's so difficult to make a water pump/thermostat that'll last, especially if the car in question has been around since the 70s and is in its 8th generation now. Other manufacturers/parts OEMs seem to have figured it out.
As for my wife's Audi, it had a particularly troublesome variant of the VW group's 2.0L turbo 4 cyl. that could lead to a need for new rod bearings. There was a recall intended to address this and the dealership we eventually took the car to after it left my wife stranded a second time was surprised that the last dealership that serviced it didn't say anything about it. Best we could get at that point was a 3-way split between Audi, the dealership, and us on the cost of a new engine (it was about $13k for parts and labor if I recall correctly).
Then with regards the BMW 335, well, it needed:
A new fuel pump due to long/slow cold starts - revision to the part fixed this moving forward - warrantied
A new water pump - this left some owners stranded but I think I lucked out since mine failed in the winter and the symptom that gave it away was the radiator fans turning on full tilt in the middle of winter in Minnesota - warrantied
VANOS (basically BMW variable valve timing) bolt replacement under recall, which included a new valve cover gasket (a common issue on its own) - warranty/recall
Oil filter housing gasket replacement - these could sometimes leak onto the serpentine belt which may lead to it shredding apart and somehow getting sucked into the engine and destroying it. I was forever paranoid that my car's serpentine belt was going to fail and so *any* squeaky noise from the engine worried me, haha - paid out of pocket
Oil pan gasket - some owners reported leaking oil pan gaskets which would require replacement eventually. Not a terrible job with the RWD models, but AWD/xDrive models required removal of the front subframe to get the oil pan out because of the AWD components. Mine was just starting to have the tiniest of leaks when I traded in the car.
Despite the issues though, I loved this car. BMW makes a real sweet inline-6. I still regret getting rid of it when I did sometimes, but I don't miss the costs that came with it. Again though, I've read that BMW's newer turbo 4cyl and 6cyl are much more reliable these days.
Anyway, back to the topic at hand: I don't know why, but I'm keeping my excitement in check because I feel like it won't be real until I've signed the paperwork on the ITS and I get the car home, haha. I'm excited to have a relatively light car again. My TLX I have on lease now is very nice and I'm surprised at how athletic it can be, but getting into a 3200 lb. car after driving one that's 4000 lb. will be real nice.
Is this replacing your '21 TLX Tech or in addition to?
Sorry - I missed this question when I replied to the other post earlier.
This will replace my '21 TLX Tech. I'll miss SH-AWD a lot! I've been really impressed by it in all road/weather conditions. As far as winters go, I've done many winters in the northern midwest with FWD and a separate set of winter wheels/tires and never had any issues so I'm not concerned about the ITS's capabilities in the winter.
There's a psychological rage-level set to ADM. I'm sure you'll go from no sales at 5k ADM to a 1yr wait at MSRP.
I never really understood the ADM fuss. It is no less arbitrary than MSRP, for me it was always whether the out the door price was something I was willing to spend. Almost anyone who waited for MSRP on an ITS got it later than those who paid ADM. Some people pay more for the vanity of getting a car first, if we all weren't vain we'd all be buying Civic DXs.
Well, the Golf R is losing its manual (not that it was a very good manual to begin with), so if you want a premium-ish manual 4 door for under $60K, the ITS is now the only choice.
07-05-2023, 11:07 AM
. A perk of not being too picky about color, but I completely understand if others are being more particular about it. My wait isn't officially over until I sign the paperwork and drive off with the car, but barring anything unexpected happening in the next couple weeks or so, I'm looking forward to having it!