Sales Numbers

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Colin

I'm sure it's because the current accord that he is talking about wasn't available in 2009 when he bought his Cadillac.

I believe he just bought a new CTS V wagon so that doesn't wash.

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11-04-2012, 07:38 PM

#42

rxj27

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 4thaccord

In all seriousness, I don't pay much attention to any of your words, because you're a salesman with an obvious bias. But some other people reading here may not be able to see that. Further, if a company has gotten itself into a position where you say they lose money by selling product, then what does that say about the company? "Self-sabotage", as the NY Times so eloquently put it. If you want to believe that Honda actually loses more money by selling the TSX than by not selling it, then more power to you.

Wait what? Where is this hostility coming from? Colin's been a great resource because he works at an Acura dealership! What part Acura's desire to ramp down TSX sales and production due to the upcoming TLX model is controversial?

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11-04-2012, 08:30 PM

#43

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 4thaccord

That's kind of silly.... Colin has better insight into these things than you. And do you somehow think a salesman posting on this forum has enough power to sway sales??? It is plausible that Honda looses money on the TSX. That is the main reason they are moving production of the car to the US. That doesn't happen overnight but they have put that into work for the upcoming TLX. Supposedly the RLX will also be built in the US, which will mean that eventually ALL Acura's sold in the US will be made in the US (or North America). It took time for that situation to develop, and it takes time to correct it. So yes, a company can get themselves into that situation. It happens all the time actually.

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11-04-2012, 08:37 PM

#44

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rxj27

I absolutely agree with you, but the "competition" has really stepped up. Honda had to have loaded the new Accord with all the new toys (blind spot monitoring, adaptive cruise control, etc.) to even compete with the Camrys and Altimas. Aside from more HP, which the new accord also has plenty (278 in the V6 version), I (as a car noob) can not really think of anything more to add to the TSX aside from the prestige nametag (which is important)...

As a selfish ILX owner, I am worried that the new 2013 Civic, which Honda appears to be rushing out, will further hurt tepid ILX sales. The current gen Civic was such a step down from the ILX in terms of interior "workmanship" it must have driven at least a few people to the ILX.

The EDs need to be in the ILX ASAP (wish I knew of this before buying!) and the cost needs to go down.

The Honda Accord Plug in Hybrid that is supposed to go on sale in early 2013 will use the ED 2.0L engine. So it is entirely possible for the ED to be incorporated in the MY14 ILX. Not sure how much that helps though.

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11-04-2012, 09:41 PM

#45

Colin

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Here is an additional data point to consider. The Acura TSX debuted in early 2008. Surely, it was on the drawing boards around 2007 (if not earlier), and this is when materials and manufacturing costs would have been factored into the selling price.

Average Annual Exchange Rates:
2007: 117 to the Dollar
2008: 103 to the Dollar
2009: 93 to the Dollar
2010: 87 to the Dollar
2011: 79 to the Dollar
2012: 79 to the Dollar (YTD)

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11-04-2012, 09:52 PM

#46

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 4thaccord

I've had disagreements with Colin many times in the past. And other times when I simply didn't agree with his posts but didn't say anything. Hell, there was even a time when he subtly suggested that some of my posts were potential grounds for a ban.

But I'm still glad someone like him is part of AZ. He has a bias, but he is still more objective than most people on the entirety of this forum.

The value of the dollar compared to the yen makes it more difficult to make a profit on a car built in Japan and sold in the US compared to a car built and sold here. Why do you think nearly every global auto manufacturer has a factory here in the US? Each factory is a massive investment, they wouldn't open one up just to save on shipping costs.

Last edited by Costco; 11-04-2012 at 10:02 PM. Reason: basically, the last part of my post is just what Colin said... didn't read this page yet. oops

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11-04-2012, 10:01 PM

#47

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Also, I don't see the point in discrediting someone's posts just because of their opinion or position.... especially if they're valid.

If you want ridiculous, you should visit this section of AZ. Check out any posts by a user named SSFTSX, he has excellent insight and is a perfectly unbiased person.

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11-05-2012, 07:00 AM

#48

terdonal

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 4thaccord

Wow, this person must really be in the know and have his fingers on the pulse of the industry. I know I bought mine strictly as a result of Colin's postings

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11-05-2012, 08:18 AM

#49

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rxj27

But yet you bought a caddie(*drooling at your CTS)? I guess bang for the buck isn't everything when it comes to people with more unique tastes....

Bob maybe you can tell us why you didn't buy an Accord?

Because race car! Duh.

Seriously, I don't want to throw the thread off and my decision came after very long consideration.

All I can tell you is that the Earth Dreams CVT drivetrain, as I tested it in the Accord sport, is going to be the shiz. If you've driven other CVTs, as I have, then compare with the Accord, the difference is night and day. When they hit the ILX, and they will, I guarantee they will be well-received. That doesn't mean the current ILX is a terrible car. It is most definitely not, especially the 2.4 6MT model.

. It's a matter of bang for buck.

As for those disagreeing with Colin....yes, he is a salesman, but he provides much needed insight into what happenes at his level, and sometimes insight into what is coming, to benefit us. So discredit him at your own risk. IMHO,

, etc.

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11-05-2012, 10:10 AM

#50

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Quote:

Originally Posted by neuronbob

As for those disagreeing with Colin....yes, he is a salesman, but he provides much needed insight into what happenes at his level, and sometimes insight into what is coming, to benefit us. So discredit him at your own risk. IMHO,

, etc.

I enjoy catching his post.

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11-05-2012, 11:08 AM

#51

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Quote:

Originally Posted by neuronbob

That doesn't mean the current ILX is a terrible car. It is most definitely not, especially the 2.4 6MT model.

. It's a matter of bang for buck

I'm very happy with my 2.4. For the price I'm paying, I'm completely satisfied.

Just need to get that rear spoiler/aero parts. And, of course, some go fast parts :cough: supercharger :cough:

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11-05-2012, 12:45 PM

#52

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^^^^

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11-28-2012, 09:40 AM

#53

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rocket354

A few thoughts.

1) too many bad reviews for the ILX to catch on with the 3000+/month they seem to expect, at least at this stage. Increase the market by offering nav with the stick and auto with the 2.4 engine and they'd sell more.

2) There are other reasons for the TSX sales decline. I think the TSX is dropping because it's a '12 model and so it could just be vanishing inventory. Plus competition from the new Accord and/or people waiting for the '13.

3) I think the ILX can and will get to 3000+/month in another year or so. They kill the TSX, create a TLX replacement that is essentially a rebadged TL. The ILX has options that move it more upstream. They keep a low-end line with cloth/150hp (or whatever low-end ED engine they decide to use) but then they offer the full array of tsx goodies on the top-end, maybe even chuck in a V6 at the tip-top. Then there's more separation between the lines. The ILX can be a small nimble luxury sedan with good performance, the TLX will be the larger touring luxury sedan. At that point, a year or two down the line, the ILX could very well do better than expectations, and shed the limited-options stigma with which it's currently saddled.

I agree with a lot of what was said here. I think there's not enough differentiation between the TSX / ILX at this stage. When they combine TSX and TL into a TLX, I think it will help ILX sales. My dealer was trying to move the 2012 TSX Tech and offering it cheaper ($500) than the 2013 ILX Tech. I decided to go with the ILX, but the choice wasn't easy because each car has her own advantages.

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12-03-2012, 12:05 PM

#54

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November numbers are out, and the ILX is kicking butt.

ILX Sales Since Its Release:

June - 1081 units
July - 1410 units
August - 1733 units
September - 1737 units
October - 1529 units
November - 2108 units

TSX Sales Since ILX Release:

June - 2602 units
July - 1980 units
August - 2103 units
September - 1681 units
October - 1577 units
November - 1768 units

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12-03-2012, 12:24 PM

#55

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Wow, October was a brilliant month for sales!

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12-03-2012, 01:53 PM

#56

rxj27

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Top selling Acura Sedan this month!!!

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12-03-2012, 02:00 PM

#57

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That's good news! Hope to what we were talking about earlier there guys!

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12-03-2012, 03:17 PM

#58

rxj27

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Well maybe the ILX can finally get some respect!

Looking at the numbers, both the TSX and the TL took nosedives this months... The new Accord must be eating into TL sales...thoughts anyone?

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12-03-2012, 11:34 PM

#59

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rxj27

Well maybe the ILX can finally get some respect!

Looking at the numbers, both the TSX and the TL took nosedives this months... The new Accord must be eating into TL sales...thoughts anyone?

Honda sold 26,248 Accords in Nov 12, and 14,355 Accords in Nov 11. It is very possible some of those new buyers were looking at the TSX and went Accord instead. Acura needs to get the new TLX out and make it agreat car... WITH a fold down rear seat!

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12-04-2012, 01:20 AM

#60

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 4cruizn

November numbers are out, and the ILX is kicking butt.

Tyson with your Acura connections I am curious if you can find out the percentage breakdown of the ILX 2.4L sales?

Granted this forum is geared towards the enthusiast, it appears there are a lot of manual transmission ILX owners on this forum. Much greater than Acura's 5% sales prediction.

I am still hoping Acura rethinks their decision to offer the Tech package with the six speed manual. I want a manual and I am willing to spend extra to have all the Tech goodies to go with it.

If Acura will not allow me the option to purchase a car fully equipped with a manual transmission our string of Honda car (Civic and Pilot) purchases will be broken. Either the new Audi A3 sedan or wait it out for upcoming 7th gen. Golf TDI or GDI.

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12-04-2012, 02:33 AM

#61

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Olladriver

Tyson with your Acura connections I am curious if you can find out the percentage breakdown of the ILX 2.4L sales?

Granted this forum is geared towards the enthusiast, it appears there are a lot of manual transmission ILX owners on this forum. Much greater than Acura's 5% sales prediction.

I am still hoping Acura rethinks their decision to offer the Tech package with the six speed manual. I want a manual and I am willing to spend extra to have all the Tech goodies to go with it.

If Acura will not allow me the option to purchase a car fully equipped with a manual transmission our string of Honda car (Civic and Pilot) purchases will be broken. Either the new Audi A3 sedan or wait it out for upcoming 7th gen. Golf TDI or GDI.

Might get a better answer from Colin.

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12-04-2012, 07:53 AM

#62

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I'd be interested to know this as well.

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12-04-2012, 08:01 AM

#63

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Olladriver

I agree, it would be nice to see the numbers. However, as you say this forum is geared towards enthusiast who may be more inclined to drive the MT. My guess is that the general public sales data will be more in line with the Acura predictions. I do know that in my area, there aren't many manual transmissions on lots. Specifically, my dealer (Columbia) had none when I purchased my AT, Charlotte had 2 and Charleston had 1. My dealer said that they "just don't get many of them."

While you want my Tech package from the AT, I want your engine in my AT.

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12-04-2012, 09:40 AM

#64

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Olladriver

Tyson with your Acura connections I am curious if you can find out the percentage breakdown of the ILX 2.4L sales?

I'll see what I can find out. Of the 40 people who have posted here in the ILX Owner Sign-In, 17 have the 2.4 That's 42%, not 5% as Acura had estimated sales at. So we definitely have more of a 'manual enthusiast' crowd here.

Some of you might find this interesting. A friend was able to track down production stats for the first 100 ILX's made. The first 16 cars were retained by Honda to use as press / fleet vehicles. The next 30 were Fathom Blue 6-speeds. The following 30 were Black 6-speeds. And the next were Silver Moon. So interestingly enough, Acura started production with the manuals.

My car is #000082 (bold). See below.

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12-04-2012, 10:13 AM

#65

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 4cruizn

I see no PMM in this list and these would be US models only. Mine is #000020
and is 6mt PMM and I am in Canada.

Those sales figures do not include Canadian models would be interesting to know how they are doing up here last month.

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12-04-2012, 10:20 AM

#66

spdandpwr

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My car is not on that list and I bought mine in August....in fact, mine is way down in the hundreds so Im thinking that Acura has produced a lot / is selling them at greater than 5%

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12-04-2012, 10:24 AM

#67

Trentimus

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My PMM is 000140 so that would further support this idea..

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12-04-2012, 10:34 AM

#68

rxj27

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http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/12...s-figures.html

Month
Acura ILX
U.S. Sales 2012
-----
February
-----
March
-----
April
-----
May
168
June
1081
July
1410
August
1733
September
1737
October
1529
November
2108

Month
Acura ILX
Canadian Sales 2012
January
-----
February
-----
March
-----
April
-----
May
14
June
147
July
285
August
318
September
323
October
400
November
December

Year
Acura ILX
U.S. Sales
9766
Canadian Sales
1487

Looking good!

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12-04-2012, 10:38 AM

#69

terdonal

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rxj27

I see the Canadian sales have climbed month over month will be interesting to see if the November sales will continue that trend.

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12-04-2012, 10:40 AM

#70

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Olladriver

Well there are only 40 or so of us and about 10,000 ILXs sold so lets not get carried away thinking we are at all a representative population...

Manual Transmission Take Rates (percentage of manuals in new vehicles sold) across the industry:

2012 - 6.5%
2011 - 3.8%
2010 - 3.9%
2009 - 4.4%
2008 - 3.7%
2007 - 2.9%
2006 - 7.2%
2005 - 6.7%
2004 - 5.5%
2004 - 5.5%
2003 - 8.2%
2002 - 8.5%

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12-04-2012, 10:45 AM

#71

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rxj27

I would agree and the number of 6mt on the lots are slim pickings. A lot of people now a days can't even drive a stick so it doesn't surprise me that the percentage is so low. Heck if the 2.4 was available with auto I would probably have an auto instead of 6mt.

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12-04-2012, 10:51 AM

#72

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Seems to me that manuals are making a slight comeback.

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12-04-2012, 10:57 AM

#73

rxj27

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2012 numbers are only first quarter estimates..those numbers might come back down.

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12-04-2012, 11:02 AM

#74

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Quote:

Originally Posted by terdonal

I see no PMM in this list and these would be US models only. Mine is #000020 and is 6mt PMM and I am in Canada.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spdandpwr

My car is not on that list and I bought mine in August....in fact, mine is way down in the hundreds so Im thinking that Acura has produced a lot / is selling them at greater than 5%

I saw an ILX in a showroom a couple weeks ago that had a VIN in the 10,000's so they're building a ton of these. Can't remember what the date stamp in the driver's door jam was.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rxj27

Manual Transmission Take Rates (percentage of manuals in new vehicles sold) across the industry

That is cool, thanks for sharing! I'll echo what others said - it would be cool to see the 'take rate' ramp up for manuals. Some of you may have already seen this but there's a "Save the Manuals" page on Facebook (with 23,000 supporters) that is dedicated to the cause.

Last edited by 4cruizn; 12-04-2012 at 11:23 AM.

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12-04-2012, 11:06 AM

#75

Trentimus

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I was actually just now thinking seeing that ramp up rate that people who love manuals were buying them with the thought manuals are disappearing.. They are on a trend to being non-existent! I am glad there is a % of us looking to keep them around!

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12-04-2012, 11:08 AM

#76

terdonal

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 4cruizn

Right you are - sorry for not specifying, Terry. I'm not sure how the VIN is laid out differently for Canadian ILXs but we should be able to assemble the same type of production dataset for the Canadian cars. Wow, your car is #20 for the Canadian cars - that's really early in the production line!

I saw an ILX in a showroom a couple weeks ago that had a VIN in the 10,000's so they're building a ton of these. Can't remember what the date stamp in the driver's door jam was.

That is cool, thanks for sharing! I'll echo what others said - it would be cool to see the 'take rare' ramp up for manuals. Some of you may have already seen this but there's a "Save the Manuals" page on Facebook (with 23,000 supporters) that is dedicated to the cause.

Hi Tyson, yes I was surprised how low mine was. As the Canadian models come in a little different configurations than the US models I can see why they are different.

I am actually surprised to be back driving a manual. After over 2,000,000+ kilometers under my foot I never expected to be back in manual but it is fun.

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12-04-2012, 12:27 PM

#77

Colin

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We know that manual transmissions will be produced at about 5% of total vehicle production. However, it is not uncommon for them to "front load" production of certain models. Possibly, the manual transmission ILXs are an example of this.

I have heard, but cannot verify if it is accurate, That the smallest number of a color/trim/engine combination that Acura will run on the assembly line is about 18 cars. If this is true, I could see them dedicating a week to produce only manual transmissions. In a sense, we do see this play out. Our monthly order sheets may reflect "no manual transmission production this month" From time to time. I believe this is because they are "saving up" their manual orders so that they can efficiently produce what they need within their production guidelines.

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4cruizn (12-04-2012), Trentimus (12-04-2012)

12-04-2012, 02:41 PM

#78

00TL-P3.2

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Hoping to help expand the ILX sales #s sometime next year, maybe.
Definitely won't be this year

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12-04-2012, 03:59 PM

#79

rxj27

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