New member here with a white 2.4. I have spent the last week, since getting the car, pretty much reading most of the posts and now I have information overload.

I have tried left foot braking while accelerating in a corner to reduce understeer and the car shuts off the throttle and delays it coming back on to about a second after releasing the brakes. Anyone else have a similar experience and a possible solution? I understand it is a safety feature but it does not allow for advanced driving techniques.

I thought maybe a hondata tune could remove it but have not found it mentioned on hondata's website.

Also, anyone have a definitive answer to whether or not the civic si suspension components are interchangeable with our cars? I want to improve handling but dont want to drop more than an inch and considering the HFP suspension which is a bolt on application that I can do (local shop charges indiscriminately). I dont want coilovers and the only other option I'm considering is swift springs, and the US office is finding out from Japan when they will be available but have not heard back yet.

Im also doing spacers, garaline, and they recommend 20mm ones. Im sticking with stock wheels and wondering if any of you that have installed them would recommend 15mm instead based on experience. I'm intalling ingalls front bolts to add negative camber, and wont be lowering the car more than about an inch, but I dont want the wheels to stick out or rub.

Thanks guys.

 

A better, more supportive shoe may help solve your left foot breaking issue. Or maybe look more closely at where you're stepping? :-)

My grammar Nazi tendencies aside, what you describe sounds like the brake override system implemented by many manufacturers in the wake of the Toyota SUA debacle. (I wasn't aware that HondAcura was one of them, though.) As it's a purported safety system in response to a highly-publicized issue, I suspect a fix may not be easily found. :-(

 

I got an update today that Swift springs will be available next month in case anyone is interested.

 

I would suggest asking questions in relative threads verse making a new one.

You'll probably get answers quicker when people like me are more likely to open a thread theyve already been in than a new one.

I believe only one person installed 15mm spacers. It has been stated at the fronts can take 20mm without rubbing and the rear can take 25mm without rubbing on a drop with stock wheels. So there would be not real reason to prefer 15 or 20 unless you just dont want the wheels poking as much.
Both sizes will run flawlessly even with a drop.

Also there is no need for the negative camber unless you want it.
There is a garageline spacer thread with someone using 20mm all around with no rubbing on a H&R sport spring drop which is about 1.5in.

Meaning, even if you go 20mm front 25mm rear (my plans) with half an inch lower than you stated you want, you still wont rub anywhere even without the ingals bolts up front.

Hope that helps.

 

Thanks for the response and the advice.

Unfortunately, unless my settings are not correct (have not looked) I don't see any suspension and wheel threads separate and such, just all posts in one location, and there are a few threads about everything, reason for starting my own.

I actually dented one of my wheels in a pothole and since stock wheels are so expensive, I ended up getting new wheels, so I'm glad for your response because it helped me, along with other posts, decide on what offset to get. Ended up with TSW matt bronze 17x8 35mm offset, so they will be 23mm further out from stock, so right at the limit but should fit.

Thanks.

 

Any pics of wheels on the car to see how that offset sits?I'm thinking of getting some lighter wheels in the future but trying to be careful with offsets.

 

Capcom,

I ordered them today and won't have them until next week. I'll take some pics once they are installed. I have been doing a lot of research and they should fit, but will be at the edge. I am also going to be running -1.4 camber up front with Ingalls camber bolts, so that should help with a couple of millimeters probably (not sure how much though) to get the front in some more.

My understanding is that 20mm in the front and 25mm spacers in the rear will make it flush with stock wheels. So 8 inch wheels with 35 offset, should be 2.5mm further out from flush in the front, and 2.5mm inside from flush in the rear. Taking into account the negative camber I'm adding, than the front should be flush, or pretty close.

We will find out.

 

Good luck can't wait to see it.

 

I got my new wheels installed, 17x8 +35 and they fit perfectly, not quite flush but a few millimeters inside the fender. It is not lowered so they might be flush when I add a sports suspension.

As an FYI, I weighed the stock wheels and they came in at 25 pounds.

 

Fuck yeah thanks for weight the stock wheels. I assume that's without a tire.
Great info. Thanks!!

And chances are the wheel will sink in at the top more when you lower it. Our acuras have some oem camber when lowering the suspension. Front doesn't go that far but if you look at my rears they have spacers and you can really see how much negative camber just 1.5in lower gives.

You can always throw spacers on if they sink too far for your liking. I'm sure some 10mm spacer would look great!!

 

You don't left foot brake to reduce understeer. You do it to balance the chassis. Think about it. If you're braking and accelerating at the same time you're doing nothing to the weight bias.

The reason for left foot braking is to reduce the time taken for you to let off the brake and get on the gas and control the loading and unloading of your suspension thereby allowing you to capitalize on your speed and not waste a second between the brake and gas.

The idea is in essence trail braking, to create a smooth loading of the front suspension so the tires loose no traction you hit the apex and roll quickly but instantly onto the throttle allowing the front suspension to unload without causing any bounce that would affect your grip.

If you really want to reduce understeer use an LSD or keep the TC on so it applied brakes to the wheel that is spinning and forces torque to the wheel with more traction.

Granted it is a video for motorcycle riders but similar physics apply to a car. You don't want to brake mid corner or the car understeer's even more. You want to progressively release the brake as you turn the steering harder and gently get on the gas to use the traction you have to pull yourself through the corner.

 

usdmJon - I'm happy with the looks as is, its perfect for me. And the wheel weight was without the tires. I got a 7 pounds net loss per corner, so it is significant.


D1sturb - You can actually use left foot braking (similar as brake vectoring in the new cars such as Focus ST and WRX) to brake the inner wheel and allow the wheel with traction to pull the car through the turn. Yes, left foot braking is used for balance too, but for FWD cars it can be used full to help get the car around a tight turn (traction), especially when there is no LSD.


And I played with left foot braking with TC off and I think it disengages the safety and allows you to brake and accelerate at the same time. I only did it immediately after picking up my car with the new wheels, so have not done it in a turn yet or have played around with it much. It felt promising though.

 

Here is an explanation -

LEFT FOOR BRAKING TECHNIQUE
Left foot braking is a technique used frequently in rallying, but can be equally useful on the road or track for the following:

Reducing understeer into a corner
Reducing drive loss through spinning wheels
Removing the pedal transfer time between accelerator and brake


Left foot braking

REDUCING UNDERSTEER INTO A CORNER
The theory here is that you can feather the brakes into a corner (trail braking), while transitioning to progressive throttle at the apex. This can lead to a very smooth transition between braking and acceleration and is less likely to unsettle the car through unwanted weight transfer. It also keeps the weight at the front of the vehicle for as long as possible, thus providing more grip, a better turn in and reduces the possibility of understeer.

REDUCING DRIVE LOSS THROUGH SPINNING WHEELS
This technique is particularly useful for a front wheel drive car without a limited slip differential. On the exit of the corner, it is a common symptom for one the unladen front wheel to spin while applying throttle. This spinning wheel is preventing all of the power from transferring to the road and thus slowing the exit speed. By feathering the brake with the left foot, this can prevent or reduce this wheelspin, and get a better exit.

REMOVING PEDAL TRANSFER TIME
Using the left foot to brake removes the pedal transition time from brake to accelerator and vice versa. This can shave fractions of a second off a lap time when done well, but cannot be used when it is necessary to change down a gear (unless you decide not to use the clutch!)

COMMON MISTAKE
Left foot braking is an advanced technique, and should only be attempted after lots of practice. When learning to left foot brake, you'll initially press the pedal far too hard as you'll be used to the action of pressing a clutch all the way to the floor. It takes time to re-programme the 'muscle memory' of your foot and leg, and a bit of empty tarmac is highly recommended.

 

I'm aware of what left foot braking is. What I am getting at is that left foot braking alone is not the only reason why you reduce understeer on tarmac . Braking into a corner will create the same effect. In essence you are going to be braking for a corner usually and if you're not braking for a corner the weight over the front axle should create enough oversteer.

So it's a technicality but left foot braking alone isn't the cure. Based on what you first said when you started the thread you mentioned that it was to reduce understeer. Either way you are going to be braking going into a corner so as a response to that I wanted to clarify. Trail braking is what reduces the understeer. Left footbraking has other benefits like maintaining chassis balance and preventing a pogo effect or maintaining speed or accelerating past the apex.

 

D1sturb, please read my posts carefully because you are arguing for a different thing. I'm talking about corner exit, not corner entry.

 

Some of us have wondered whether or not the Civic Si and the ILX suspensions are compatible, and while doing a lot of reading I compared these two articles together and it looks like the ILX has beefier mounting points, larger bolts. The top hat bolts looks to be 14mm on the ILX vs 10mm on the Si, while the flange bolts are 19mm on the ILX vs 16mm on the Si.

https://acurazine.com/forums/ilx-382/diy-ilx-coilover-installation-896042/

http://www.collegehillshonda.com/ins...suspension.pdf

 

THIS. thanks dude. I tried to tell people this on another thread , had no proof/ data. other then picture evidence a guy had on the 9th gen forums. The (current) Megan front lower tie bars DONT FIT RIGHT. DONT GET THEM. The only ones (front lower tie) out so far that fit right are the FKX racing, and Tanabe bars. and the Megan (current) underbrace H bar fits, but doesn't clear 3' aftermarket exhaust piping (not compatible). The FKX X-brace does allow 3' clearance tho. Apparently the Megan rear tie bar does fit just fine, no issues. All fitment I'm talking about was done on SI's. But - the Tanabe and FKX stuff IS on ILX's, no issues reported at this time. FKX stuff is also triple ribbed(reinforced) The Tanabe is double or single ribbed (i think single) and Megan for sure is single ribbed. Again 9th gen had picks of hacksawed bars to prove this too.

 

Swift spring info is out for 2012 Civic.


Code Year Part No. Spring Rate DropFront Rear Front Rear Kg/mm Lbs/Inch Kg/mm Lbs/Inch mm Inch mm Inch
12+ 4H915R 4.7 263 5.4 302 -30 -1.2 -25 -1.0

 

I did read your post which states understeer while accelerating. I'm not arguing with you about what you're saying, I'm talking about how you say it. What you claim left foot braking does, is what trail braking is accomplishing on entry. That's all I'm getting at.

If the two concepts are mixed anyone else reading this thread is going to mistaken left foot braking as the cure for understeer which it is not. There is a lot more that goes into it.

On exit with an open diff you would spin your inner wheel while accelerating through a corner. If that is the case your outer wheel still has traction and is still carving a proper line provided it is at the right speed. Spinning the outer wheel would create understeer. By applying the brake you are vectoring the torque to the outer wheel which has the most grip. Again not reducing understeer but putting the power to the ground more effectively.

On the exit left foot braking would help reduce understeer if both wheels start to spin in low traction situations. The chances of that happening are slim on a dry road.

We're saying the same thing but it is different concepts that contribute towards what is happening. No one should believe that the absence of left foot braking would cause understeer.

Trail braking prevent's understeer on corner entry. Left foot braking and trail braking can be combined but the concepts should be split apart and not confused as the same.
Left foot braking allows for smoother transition from braking to throttle and torque distribution to allow greater exit speed

 

aomechmarine, I'm not sure it is still clear though. The articles show two different bolt sizes, with the ILX being beefier, but that same coil over that was installed on that ILX in the article, is the same coil over (part number) used in the Civic Si. So there is a discrepancy because the same component can't be used if the bolt sized are different between the two cars, unless they use washers or something to adapt it to the Si with the smaller bolts.
I put in a call to D2, the coil over used in the article, to see if they could clarify. They are talking to their techs and will get back to me.

D1sturb, I meant accelerating in a corner while applying the brake simultaneously (after braking into the corner and in the turn already) like in a highway ramp where you can accelerate through the turn. I did not say accelerate into a corner while braking and accelerating simultaneously to help reduce understeer, just said accelerating in a corner, as in a long sweeper for example, or on corner exit. But we are just talking semantics now.

Thanks for trying to clarify it though, as others might have gotten confused too.

 

aomechmarine, I just spoke with D2 and their techs and they are saying that the bolt diameter is exactly the same between the ILX and the Si. The head (socket) might be different, but the bolt sizes are the same.

 

Makes sense. I know how much of a difference it can make especially on sweeping corners!

 

Another update on the compatibility of the ILX and Si suspension. After speaking with a Honda parts person and further conversations with D2, the instructions diagram I posted earlier showing that the Civic used smaller bolts is a error. The diagram shows the diameter of the bolts and not the tool size needed, so the bolts, and struts and coil overs, between the ILX and Si should be interchangeable, at least between the Si 2012-2013 model years, because the 14 is different, I was told. So as long as a 2012 Civic Si coil over is used, or HFP kit, we should be fine.

 

I just looked at the stock wheels since replacing them and they are made by Enkei, 40 offset, and feature Enkei's MAT technology according to the stamp on the inside of the wheel.

 

They also weigh 32 lbs each and are 17x7. The diamond alloys weigh 25 lbs each, and I'm pretty sure the rest of the specs are the same.

 

So I'm ready to install my suspension upgrades to my car. I'm doing a progress 22mm RSB, Redshift/GC coil overs with Koni inserts, front camber bolts, and a hitch - not so much for performance.

It looks like to install the RSB you need to remove part of the subframe, it might just be a metal cover/brace, is that right? I was looking at it when in the dealer's service bay and it does not look like I can just remove it without also having to remove that cover, but I only looked briefly. Can anyone who's installed one chime in with some pointers. I'm getting new jack stands so waiting for them to get under and really have a look.

Where are people jacking up the car from, besides the jacking up rails by the wheels. The manual does not mention anywhere else, and the Acura tech (had the car in for the Siri Eyes Free Mode upgrade) said he would use those only. I pointed out the subframe bar behind the radiator, it has a raised portion about an 1 inch wide and 6 inches long, between the plastic air ducts under the engine compartment, and the tow hook in the rear, but he did not suggest using them just because its not in the manual.

I would ideally like to raise it from the front, put it on front jack stands, then rear, and put it on the rear jack stands so its off the ground completely, but if I have to do it from the sides, thats OK too, just extra steps. But I also don't want to bend anything, because it can be done even when it looks sturdy like its part of the frame.

Thanks.