I love my ILX Hybrid, but unlike the 2010 Prius I traded-in, whenever I travel less than 10mph, the ILX hybrid begins to jerk around/fight me and tries to slow itself down. (The Prius would just glide, the ILX seems to want to stop).

Does anyone else had/have the same issue and if so has anyone fixed it?

 

I know what you are referring to. I came from a 2010 Lexus HS250h and the transition has taken some getting used to. The hybrid system for Honda and Toyota are completely different. I don't think there is a fix for what you describe, I just think that's just the way it works. Instead of gliding it feels like a down shift and pulls you back.

 

Yeah, I should have been more aware of the driving issues before signing the lease--I was just blown away by the interior and exterior....frustrating that the hybrid technology feels outdated....hoping Acura comes out with some type of software update to the engine system to allow the car to glide and even more, allow the car to start and drive to 10mph...no reason the car can not begin and at least acelerate on electric only up to 10mph...I've been in the car when it goe to electric only so this car can totally do it...come on Acura listen

 

It helps to understand that the hybrid motor in the ILX is only good for around 20-23 hp. If you are cruising at 30 miles an hour on level ground with only the wind resistance to overcome, 23 hp might be enough to keep the speed up. However, accelerating 2900 pounds from a dead stop would be very slow going indeed with only 23 hp doing the work.

On your original question, are you talking about the behavior of the car when you're on or off throttle?

 

Interesting, I am learning about car technology more - in terms of the feeling it's as if the car is forcing a stop...almost as if it is being shut down.

 

The ILX unlike the Toyota hybrid system lacks a pure electric mode...

Are you talking about the start stop shut off when driving around 10 MPH? When you engage the throttle, i.e. foot off brake, the auto shut down should turn off.

The downshifts might be due to eco mode, which keeps the RPMs at the minimum when accelerating. Try turning this off...

 

Agree the econ mode makes this even more extreme, but still happens in regular Drive mode....may just be that the electric motor can't handle the 3K lbs as you mention from a start....hate to be ripping on the ILX, but it is frustrating....car still rocks...one thing I can say, this car hits 38 mpg all the time....seems like Honda/Acura are not blowing smoke....but would be great if my car could blow less of it (pure EV mode)

 

Strange. My wife has a CR-Z with a manual and it's smooth as can be. The hybrid setup is very similar to the ILX's.

 

I can echo this for our (6MT) CR-Z as well. However, I'm not 100% sure I understand his original question/concern. When the OP said, "ILX hybrid begins to jerk around/fight me and tries to slow itself down" Are we referring to the auto-stop feature or the feeling that there is too much regenerative braking or engine compression braking? Or is it something else entirely?

 

I wonder if the CVT isn't 'de-coupling' properly.

 

I don't think that it can actually "de-couple". If the original poster is talking about "a jerky feel" then it might be the engine moving around on the motor mounts. That was one of my early first impressions, that the motor mounts were too soft. Of course, I'm sure this is deliberate in an effort to reduce NVH.

If he is referring to aggressive engine braking and/or aggressive regenerative braking, then I have a long shot. He didn't mention it, but there is a mode that you can access by pulling the two paddle shifters simultaneously. This will engage a very aggressive regenerative braking profile. In this mode, if you take your foot off the gas the car slows down dramatically to recharge the batteries faster. Since he never mentioned this I doubt this is what is going on, but I thought I should mention it anyway.

 

Interesting..

 

Hey guys, I'm the original poster, I firstly, thanks for the help, this is so awesome of the community.

hmm, i don't usually play with the paddle shifters (at least in the above scenarios, I didn't touch the paddle shifters ever when driving) but wondering if i accidentally put them together in the past and engaged this mode...I will try pulling the paddle shifters at the same time and see if that disengages the mode....

When I say "jerking", whenever the car is under 15 mph, the car feels like it is downshifting terribly-car literally jerks...may I ask, is everyone saying that when they are under 15mph in a Honda hybrid, they are not experiencing this car shuddering itself before the auto-stop. When I am under 2 mph the engine shuts off (auto-stop button lights up) and I glide so nicely, but what I have been referring to is the 10mph pre auto-stop, no braking, just easing off the accelerator....thanks everyone for your help in advance...any advice/help would be (and already is) greatly appreciated!

 

Well, for Ken and myself we are both referring to a slightly different car. Our cars use a manual transmission, so under the scenario you're describing we would probably have the clutch engaged. It is doubtful that it's the "double pull" on the paddle shifters. As far as I know, this feature is reset to the default whenever the car starts the next driving session but I wanted to point out anyway.

Personally, I think you're feeling my initial suspicion. As an experiment, try easing out of the throttle as gently as you can to minimize the torque effect on the engine. As for a slight shudder when the gasoline engine engages and disengages, I believe this is normal operation.

 

I looked into this on the interwebs and found this:

http://www.crzforum.com/forum/honda-...low-mph-2.html

Essentially when in auto shut off, before engaging the throttle wait for the engine to turn back on. This seems to eliminate that jerkiness at low speeds...Hope this helps. Have not really noticed this at all. Will be more vigilant in the future.

 

Thanks for the suggestions; question, if the car is engaging in auto shut off, would the light show up? I read the article and all of the issues stem from the engine stopping, but people not letting it fully shut down....in my case, it's the time the engine never shuts off (first 5 mins of traveling), in fact the immediate mpg in the mpg gauge goes way down as if the engine is revving and shutting down (it's debating what it should do)...if everyone is saying there ride at 2-5mph is ultra smooth, I may need to take my car to the dealer...in all the cases I was not breaking, just not pushing on the accelerator after 2-5 mph...each time the car jerks/engine "coughs" and feels like it is immediately (for a second) slowing down the car...frustrating to say the least...

 

I haven't driven the ILX hybrid but in the CR-Z when the engine shuts off, there will be a light that flashes green saying 'Auto-Stop'

 

Thanks; yeah when at a traffic light or compete stop I get the same light "auto-stop"; with all being said, why does the car seem to want to stop by itself (no braking on my part)....sorry to keep asking, but feel someone else has had to have the same issue (in fact user TSXINVA seems to state he/she has the same issue)...maybe th CR-Z is a better hyrbid system...any help/ideas so well appreciated (and thanks for everyone so far-really nice of everyone to give up their time to help a fellow ILXer/honda person)

 

Actually just found this article-

http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/f...ow-speed-2779/

Anyone have any thoughts on it?

 

I'd be surprised if the EGR valve were malfunctioning on a new car.

 

I'm confused. The link is referring to an issue under acceleration, aren't you describing an off throttle characteristic?

You need to try to be as analytical and consistent when describing things since the internet is very "vague" for lack of a better term. For example, if I were to say, "when I get off the gas but not on the brake, the car seems to slow more than I'm expecting." Would that describe what you're experiencing?

One thing you could watch for is your state of charge. I'm thinking that if the battery is low, the car will work harder to regenerate energy when you're off throttle and this could cause it to feel as if it slows even if you're not on the brakes (because the electric motor is creating drag as it charges). If the battery is full, this tendency should be lessened. You can also watch the charge/assist meter to see what is happening. If you're seeing a lot of 'charge' on the meter, then this could explain what is happening.

Remember that the Prius has it's electric motor in the CVT transmission, this allows it to decouple the motor from the gas engine. This could contribute to the 'freewheeling' feel you were trying to describe in your first post. The Honda system couples the electric motor directly to the engine's flywheel and so it's always attached to the gas engine. There are strengths and weaknesses to both approaches but IMO, the Honda system drives more like a 'regular' car at the expense of the higher fuel economy the Toyota system delivers. Personally, I'd accept this trade off because as a former autocrosser and driving enthusiast, I expect to feel engine (or electric motor) braking when I'm off the throttle! LOL, not feeling it would be unnatural to me!

 

After reading this whole thread, what the op seems to be describing is similar to when you let off the throttle abruptly in a manual transmission at slow speeds (10mph or less), the car has this bucky-ness to it, literally rocking you forward and backward. OP, try easing off the throttle when you're in stop and go traffic or feathering it the whole way through the traffic jam.

 

Hey everyone thanks again for the help; apologize not clearly articulating issues.

Issue is that this happens in more than 1 situation - anytime the car gets under 10mph it buckles; 1. I am accelerating but am very "feather" like on the accelerator, it buckles; 2. When I ease off the accelerator, both lightly (over a long period of time) or suddenly it buckles. 3. When I apply the brake and get below 10 mph and then let go of the brake peddle so the car would hopefully glide. Only time it doesn't do this is when I apply the brake the entire length of in motion to full stop (very smooth).

My issue may be that I am coming from a Prius with the parrallel hybrid system; guessing the parallel hybrid gives the ability to ride on the electric so at these low motions (guessing when gas is not being pumped/primed to the engine) the electric kicks in and thus a nice glide.

Sorry, just thought all hybrids could do this motion, but guessing not. I have driven the ILX in only in electric mode when over 10 mph...so nice/quiet/smooth. Again, my bad for not checking into this more - I understand want to feel more like a car, but I feel the "glide" on electric is a nice and the main wanted feature - after great mpg - of a hybrid, so not a bad thing. Sorry, not trying to bring down the ILX - its such a good looking car and as I said, it always gets 38 mpg (city/highway)-actually after 2,222 miles it's at 40.1mpg.

If anyone knows if I could do some other driving technique or taking to a dealer (and what they should look for) that would be great. Thanks everyone!

 

I believe that what you are feeling is a characteristic of the ILX not solely limited to the hybrid model. I mentioned it earlier but I believe that the car is using (relatively) soft motor mount(s). At low speeds where engine torque is maximized, you will tend to feel this effect more. I believe they all do this to a certain extent but because the hybrid is putting out a tremendous amount of torque, it might be a little more exaggerated.

 

Interesting that this may not be related to the hybrid; I'm going go my dealer this weekend to have a technician drive with me.

 

Drove around several parking lots at low speeds mostly off throttle with eco mode ON and could not reproduce this jerkiness. Let us know what the technician finds.

 

Will do; thanks for checking to see if same thing happens (it really feels like the car is downshifting)

 

Of course, this cover doesn't "shift" gears so it's not possible to downshift in the traditional sense. However, Acuras have had a long standing feature they call "Grade Logic Control". It's been around as long as I can remember, all the way back to the third generation Integra. So, while not listed on the CVT spec sheet, I wouldn't be surprised to see some vestiges of this remaining.

From Acura, describing Grade Logic, now called shift hold control on the 5AT:
When you add the fact that the hybrid needs to recharge the battery, its most likely replicating this feature to recharge the batteries using the regenerative braking. IMO, it's perfectly normal (so long as I'm understanding your question correctly).

 

Frustratingly, wondering if I am just unsatisfied with Honda Hybrid mechanics (no electric mode) and am now making a big deal over something that can't be fixed

 

As I was reading I kinda got this impression as well.. which is weird because all of my manuals have done it but never an automatic..

OP can you try going to the dealer and test driving another hybrid ILX to see if it will produce the same feeling? Maybe this can direct you to if it's a problem or part of the architechture. Best of luck

 

Turns out nothing wrong-the car is indeed downshifting by itself to save energy while giving he car a "sporty" feel; really, just the fact that the car does not have a separate electric motor.... Acura if you're listening (which they should as these forums are great focus groups (real world))...don't leave the ILX hybrid train in the dust... Pls add some calls in the circuitry to stop automatic downshifting and even more, at less than 10 mph, when held steady, please let the car glide on the electric motor (if it can do this between 15-35 mph, why not less than 10 mph)...,

 

Interesting thread. After reading like 90% of the posts, I'd say that there is one thing that shines through: Toyota need not worry about it's position as the present master of passenger car hybrid technology.

 

A couple of things....
The ILX does have a separate electric motor. It's Li ion powered to generate 23 HP. But the fact is, as you just found out, the hybrid system is called IMA or Integrated Motor Assist. Basically the ILX runs as a normal car, the electric motor only kicks in for extra boast during accerleration/uphill climbs/increased HP and torque demands.

That said, Ihave yet to experience this jerkiness and could only reproduce it by going from no throttle cruising to slamming hard on the throttle. Maybe depress the throttle more lightly...

Acura has indeed listened, the new Accord hybrid will have an all electric mode below 13 MPH.

Glad you fixed/understand the new car!

Simba, while I agree with you that Toyota has a more sophisticated hybrid system, in fact I was close to buying the Camry...But compared to the ILX, no other hybrid comes close in terms of exterior styling. Toyota might not worry but not everyone wants to "drive" a Prius...

 

As I understand the modern history of the hybrid car, we need to keep things in perspective. In our modern world where computer processing power doubles every 18 months (Moore's Law), and cell phones seemed to iterate every six months, cars are not like that.

In the modern era, Honda introduced the first production hybrid car to North America in 1999 with the Honda Insight. Shortly thereafter, Toyota introduced the first Prius. In some respects, each of these first entries followed the two brands individual philosophies. The Honda was elegantly simple, lightweight, and drove like a "normal" car. Because the system sandwiched the electric motor between the gasoline engine and the transmission, it could be adapted to either manual or automatic usage. First generation battery packs weighed about 68 pounds, the current packs weigh 45 pounds.

However, the "Achilles' heel" of this system is that Honda is on able to decouple the electric motor from the gasoline engine. Remember, the electric motor is essentially a flywheel of the car. This alone means that electric only operation would be difficult to accomplish. And, even when you operate in this fashion, you still have the reciprocating mass of the pistons to overcome.

Separately, Toyota was pursuing a hybrid drive system as well. Their system was significantly more complex, and and relied on a huge, heavy battery pack. Generally in the range of 130 pounds. It may be some time before we'd learn all the details (if ever) but Toyota has settled with a company named Paice (Google it). Essentially, they claim that Toyota has infringed on their patents and have reached an out-of-court settlement. Now, Toyota has wrapped their (licensed?) Hybrid synergy drive technology with around 4000 patents.

So, let's say that by 2005 Honda realized that their light weight, sporty, and efficient system had lost the hybrid "mind-share war". How long do you think it takes to develop a competing system without infringing on Toyotas "new found" patents? I guess we know the answer, the 2013 Honda Accord is the response. In my opinion, that's not bad considering a global (near) depression in 2009 and an unprecedented natural disaster in 2011 in the interim.

This car will allow for full electric operation for limited periods of time, disengage the gasoline engine as needed, but will also carry all of the "negatives" of this type of system. I'm sure it is going to have a huge battery pack, won't be compatible with a manual transmission, and probably be a little more costly because of the battery pack.

 

Thanks for the insights; very interesting and appreciate the accuracy...helps me better understand the system

 

Sorry to bump an old thread, but will the jerkyness from the gasoline engine reengaging cause any damage to the motor?