Official CES 2007 Coverage Thread
Thread Starter
The Creator
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 37,950
Likes: 8
From: Albany, NY
Originally Posted by SiGGy
When I looked at those pics, I was more thinking Microsoft cable service. Didn't I see a TV guide? (maybe I'm mistaken) Usually "IPTV" is real-time streams.
Are all of those things in the pics HD? wow, that's pretty cool if so. But, ya if it's HD it'll be download and watch, unless your on FIOS
But if it's just SDTV, I bet they can stream those channels live. Guess I need to read some more.
Are all of those things in the pics HD? wow, that's pretty cool if so. But, ya if it's HD it'll be download and watch, unless your on FIOS
But if it's just SDTV, I bet they can stream those channels live. Guess I need to read some more.
Xbox already has "download and watch" movies & tv. I'm just using that as a basis for what we can expect for bitrates as far as their HD cable service goes.
All the channels are 720p and it is live "streaming". It's real TV.
If their current movie downloads are around 6Mb/s, they sound fairly "uncompressed" as compared to the content on HD-DVD's. This means they can probably get away with a reasonably higher compression ratio for their IPTV. I think they'll be able to get 720p down to at least the 3Mb/s range. You shouldn't have a problem streaming that over cable.
I'm guessing they'll play it safe and we'll be getting something in the 2Mb/s range. This would easily allow for PIP with cable internet. (Especially considering that the 2nd stream would probably be received at low resolution).
Moderator Alumnus
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 9,263
Likes: 2
From: Lenexa, KS
Originally Posted by soopa
Oh & I can't say for sure, but I bet a 2Mb/s VC-1 encoding is STILL better quality then the MPEG-2 were getting from cable companies right now.
I think so too. This is good news. I know Scientific Atlanta makes IPTV cable boxes now and the cable companies are deciding on implementing it. (also uses h.264/VC-1 codec however it will cost a ton to revamp current systems) This sort of competition is good, I wonder what they will charge for service? Another neat thing about it is you can watch it on your PC as well with IPTV client. If they allow it
This is some good stuff, I hope it's not over-priced. More competition we have the lower cable/satellite/IPTV bills we'll have
Thread Starter
The Creator
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 37,950
Likes: 8
From: Albany, NY
Silver provided this link in the gaming forum to Microsoft's "IPTV Edition" software platform:
http://www.microsoft.com/tv/IPTVEdition.mspx
I guess that's what 360 IPTV is based off of.
They say: "standard definition video at bit rates ranging between 1.5 and 1.8 Mbps (Megabits per second) and high definition programming ranging between 7 and 9 Mbps. That is as little as one half to one third of the bandwidth required by comparable MPEG-2 solutions"
Sounds odd, considering that Xbox's DOWNLOADABLE content isn't even 7Mbps. I don't see how their streaming content would be.
http://www.microsoft.com/tv/IPTVEdition.mspx
I guess that's what 360 IPTV is based off of.
They say: "standard definition video at bit rates ranging between 1.5 and 1.8 Mbps (Megabits per second) and high definition programming ranging between 7 and 9 Mbps. That is as little as one half to one third of the bandwidth required by comparable MPEG-2 solutions"
Sounds odd, considering that Xbox's DOWNLOADABLE content isn't even 7Mbps. I don't see how their streaming content would be.
Thread Starter
The Creator
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 37,950
Likes: 8
From: Albany, NY
Administrator Alumnus
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 26,326
Likes: 131
From: Northwest IN
Originally Posted by soopa
I wonder how much the media costs???
Thread Starter
The Creator
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 37,950
Likes: 8
From: Albany, NY
More 50GB HD-DVD news: http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...0GB_HD_DVD/422
So now not only do we have two competing formats but we have two competing virtually identical formats
What a waste of time, money, and consumer trust. Someone needs to call a cease fire!
So now not only do we have two competing formats but we have two competing virtually identical formats
What a waste of time, money, and consumer trust. Someone needs to call a cease fire!
Thread Starter
The Creator
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 37,950
Likes: 8
From: Albany, NY
More HD-DVD vs Blu-ray sales figures confusion: http://www.joystiq.com/2007/01/08/ps...d-dvd-players/
sup
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,147
Likes: 1
From: NYC
Originally Posted by soopa
The IPTV service IS live-streaming TV. Microsoft Cable Service, as you say.
Xbox already has "download and watch" movies & tv. I'm just using that as a basis for what we can expect for bitrates as far as their HD cable service goes.
All the channels are 720p and it is live "streaming". It's real TV.
If their current movie downloads are around 6Mb/s, they sound fairly "uncompressed" as compared to the content on HD-DVD's. This means they can probably get away with a reasonably higher compression ratio for their IPTV. I think they'll be able to get 720p down to at least the 3Mb/s range. You shouldn't have a problem streaming that over cable.
I'm guessing they'll play it safe and we'll be getting something in the 2Mb/s range. This would easily allow for PIP with cable internet. (Especially considering that the 2nd stream would probably be received at low resolution).
Xbox already has "download and watch" movies & tv. I'm just using that as a basis for what we can expect for bitrates as far as their HD cable service goes.
All the channels are 720p and it is live "streaming". It's real TV.
If their current movie downloads are around 6Mb/s, they sound fairly "uncompressed" as compared to the content on HD-DVD's. This means they can probably get away with a reasonably higher compression ratio for their IPTV. I think they'll be able to get 720p down to at least the 3Mb/s range. You shouldn't have a problem streaming that over cable.
I'm guessing they'll play it safe and we'll be getting something in the 2Mb/s range. This would easily allow for PIP with cable internet. (Especially considering that the 2nd stream would probably be received at low resolution).
hmmm....2mb/s... I have cable in NYC....do you know a good website where I can test out my download speed? I'm curious as to how my connection fares
Thread Starter
The Creator
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 37,950
Likes: 8
From: Albany, NY
Originally Posted by ViperrepiV
hmmm....2mb/s... I have cable in NYC....do you know a good website where I can test out my download speed? I'm curious as to how my connection fares
here's mine:
i have a relatively SLOW cable connection. i live in a city, in a crowded neighborhood, and i share a node with a large regional hospital. there are over 467 modems on my node (the average node is between 100-150 modems).
on top of all that, it's the middle of the day (usually the slowest time for me), and i'm still getting nearly 5Mb/s. more then enough for VC-1 encoded 720p streaming content, IMO.
Thread Starter
The Creator
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 37,950
Likes: 8
From: Albany, NY
Originally Posted by Ashburner
Seriously though, this looks like the year I pick up an HD Video camera
pick a server near you dude. singapore yeah, there's lots of HD Camcorder news from CES. I'm interested in one before the baby's born as well...
Here's some highlights on that front:
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/tag/s...ine-227052.php
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadge...ers-227007.php
http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/08/s...apixel-stills/
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/digit...der-226722.php
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadge...-hd-226571.php (16:9!!)
Suzuka Master
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,034
Likes: 10
From: Outside Houston
Originally Posted by soopa
pick a server near you dude. singapore yeah, there's lots of HD Camcorder news from CES. I'm interested in one before the baby's born as well...
Here's some highlights on that front:
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/tag/s...ine-227052.php
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadge...ers-227007.php
http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/08/s...apixel-stills/
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/digit...der-226722.php
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadge...-hd-226571.php (16:9!!)
Are you leaning towards hard drive or DVD based? I have a first gen Sony DVD and I like it but I think I'd rather do hard drive based. That way I'll be forced to archive video. I had recorded my daughter birth on DVD and gave it to her and it got destroyed. I never made a backup.
Thread Starter
The Creator
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 37,950
Likes: 8
From: Albany, NY
Originally Posted by Ashburner
lol... I was just messing around.
Are you leaning towards hard drive or DVD based? I have a first gen Sony DVD and I like it but I think I'd rather do hard drive based. That way I'll be forced to archive video. I had recorded my daughter birth on DVD and gave it to her and it got destroyed. I never made a backup.
Are you leaning towards hard drive or DVD based? I have a first gen Sony DVD and I like it but I think I'd rather do hard drive based. That way I'll be forced to archive video. I had recorded my daughter birth on DVD and gave it to her and it got destroyed. I never made a backup.
Thread Starter
The Creator
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 37,950
Likes: 8
From: Albany, NY
nnInn
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 37,670
Likes: 1,084
Originally Posted by Ashburner
lol... I was just messing around.
Are you leaning towards hard drive or DVD based? I have a first gen Sony DVD and I like it but I think I'd rather do hard drive based. That way I'll be forced to archive video. I had recorded my daughter birth on DVD and gave it to her and it got destroyed. I never made a backup.
Are you leaning towards hard drive or DVD based? I have a first gen Sony DVD and I like it but I think I'd rather do hard drive based. That way I'll be forced to archive video. I had recorded my daughter birth on DVD and gave it to her and it got destroyed. I never made a backup.
Sony just announce 5 new HDD camcorders. These are not High Def http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-12760_7...?tag=cnetfd.mt
I picked up Sony's HDR-SR1, was able to get from amazon about$1100.00, they messed up the promotion and ending up giving me more credit than they should have.
sup
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,147
Likes: 1
From: NYC
From Wikipedia on IPTV:
IPTV (Internet Protocol Television) is a system where a digital television service is delivered using the Internet Protocol over a network infrastructure, which may include delivery by a broadband connection. For residential users, IPTV is often provided in conjunction with Video on Demand and may be bundled with Internet services such as Web access and VoIP. The commercial bundling of IPTV, VoIP and Internet access is referred to as a Triple Play. Adding the mobile voice service leads to the Quadruple Play denomination. IPTV is typically supplied by a broadband operator using a closed network infrastructure. This closed network approach is in competition with the delivery of TV content over the public Internet. This type of delivery is widely called TV over Internet or Internet Television. In businesses, IPTV may be used to deliver television content over corporate LANs and business networks. Perhaps a simpler definition of IPTV would be television content that, instead of being delivered through traditional formats and cabling, is received by the viewer through the technologies used for computer networks.
I'm not really sure what is meant by a "closed network," but my guess would be that RoadRunner/Time Warner would need to sell you an IPTV connection as opposed to a regular internet connection to ensure the proper speeds. At least this way they could try and recoup the lost sales from cable customers dropping out.
IPTV (Internet Protocol Television) is a system where a digital television service is delivered using the Internet Protocol over a network infrastructure, which may include delivery by a broadband connection. For residential users, IPTV is often provided in conjunction with Video on Demand and may be bundled with Internet services such as Web access and VoIP. The commercial bundling of IPTV, VoIP and Internet access is referred to as a Triple Play. Adding the mobile voice service leads to the Quadruple Play denomination. IPTV is typically supplied by a broadband operator using a closed network infrastructure. This closed network approach is in competition with the delivery of TV content over the public Internet. This type of delivery is widely called TV over Internet or Internet Television. In businesses, IPTV may be used to deliver television content over corporate LANs and business networks. Perhaps a simpler definition of IPTV would be television content that, instead of being delivered through traditional formats and cabling, is received by the viewer through the technologies used for computer networks.
I'm not really sure what is meant by a "closed network," but my guess would be that RoadRunner/Time Warner would need to sell you an IPTV connection as opposed to a regular internet connection to ensure the proper speeds. At least this way they could try and recoup the lost sales from cable customers dropping out.
Suzuka Master
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,034
Likes: 10
From: Outside Houston
200 GB Blu-ray discs, 16.5 GB Mini discs in the works
Originally Posted by SiGGy
doubtful, don't forget when they did the same stats of who is actually watching HD with their HD TV. They left out ALL of the people using their built in QAM digital tuners.
Unless Sony wakes up and chooses VC1 for their codec, I don't want blu-ray to win. It looks like shit compared to HD-DVD. So much macroblocking.
So sad, current HD-DVD movies have more storage space than current blu-ray movies. To date no 50GB blu-ray disc has been release, all of them are 25GB. Giving the win to HD-DVD with 30GB discs. Then factor in that HD-DVD VC1 can compress the video 2-3x better than BluRay MPEG-2. The HD-DVD discs are essentially what the quality of a 60GB bluray disc using MPEG-2 would look like. Pity blu-ray discs are only 50GB max and current ones are only 25GB.
Unless Sony wakes up and chooses VC1 for their codec, I don't want blu-ray to win. It looks like shit compared to HD-DVD. So much macroblocking.
So sad, current HD-DVD movies have more storage space than current blu-ray movies. To date no 50GB blu-ray disc has been release, all of them are 25GB. Giving the win to HD-DVD with 30GB discs. Then factor in that HD-DVD VC1 can compress the video 2-3x better than BluRay MPEG-2. The HD-DVD discs are essentially what the quality of a 60GB bluray disc using MPEG-2 would look like. Pity blu-ray discs are only 50GB max and current ones are only 25GB.
http://www.tgdaily.com/2007/01/08/ce...200gb_blu-ray/
Las Vegas (NV) - While we are just noticing a greater adoption of the first-generation high-definition media formats and a new wave of 50 GB Blu-ray will be shipping in the first quarter of this year, we have spotted the next generation of Blu-ray at CES.
TDK previewed a massive 200 GB Blu-ray disc, which the company claims has enough room to store approximately 18 hours of high-definition video (encoded at 24 Mbps). The company did not say when such media may be commercially available.
lso on display are 8cm Mini Blu-ray discs, which have a capacity of 16.5 GB by using a single-layer recording material structure. The Blu-ray minis will be available in BD-R and BD-RE formats. Complementing the TDK lineup are thermal and inkjet printable BD-Rs that will begin shipping in the second quarter of 2007.
Thread Starter
The Creator
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 37,950
Likes: 8
From: Albany, NY
Originally Posted by ViperrepiV
From Wikipedia on IPTV:
IPTV (Internet Protocol Television) is a system where a digital television service is delivered using the Internet Protocol over a network infrastructure, which may include delivery by a broadband connection. For residential users, IPTV is often provided in conjunction with Video on Demand and may be bundled with Internet services such as Web access and VoIP. The commercial bundling of IPTV, VoIP and Internet access is referred to as a Triple Play. Adding the mobile voice service leads to the Quadruple Play denomination. IPTV is typically supplied by a broadband operator using a closed network infrastructure. This closed network approach is in competition with the delivery of TV content over the public Internet. This type of delivery is widely called TV over Internet or Internet Television. In businesses, IPTV may be used to deliver television content over corporate LANs and business networks. Perhaps a simpler definition of IPTV would be television content that, instead of being delivered through traditional formats and cabling, is received by the viewer through the technologies used for computer networks.
I'm not really sure what is meant by a "closed network," but my guess would be that RoadRunner/Time Warner would need to sell you an IPTV connection as opposed to a regular internet connection to ensure the proper speeds. At least this way they could try and recoup the lost sales from cable customers dropping out.
IPTV (Internet Protocol Television) is a system where a digital television service is delivered using the Internet Protocol over a network infrastructure, which may include delivery by a broadband connection. For residential users, IPTV is often provided in conjunction with Video on Demand and may be bundled with Internet services such as Web access and VoIP. The commercial bundling of IPTV, VoIP and Internet access is referred to as a Triple Play. Adding the mobile voice service leads to the Quadruple Play denomination. IPTV is typically supplied by a broadband operator using a closed network infrastructure. This closed network approach is in competition with the delivery of TV content over the public Internet. This type of delivery is widely called TV over Internet or Internet Television. In businesses, IPTV may be used to deliver television content over corporate LANs and business networks. Perhaps a simpler definition of IPTV would be television content that, instead of being delivered through traditional formats and cabling, is received by the viewer through the technologies used for computer networks.
I'm not really sure what is meant by a "closed network," but my guess would be that RoadRunner/Time Warner would need to sell you an IPTV connection as opposed to a regular internet connection to ensure the proper speeds. At least this way they could try and recoup the lost sales from cable customers dropping out.
IPTV is not a Microsoft/Xbox/360 invention. There's a myriad of IPTV system & devices today and they all work in different fashions.
Like that article says, IPTV is basically just TV over Internet.
You will not need to buy an "IPTV connection" because your internet connection IS your IPTV connection.
TimeWarner will continue to make money because they're selling you your internet connection, lol.
Thread Starter
The Creator
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 37,950
Likes: 8
From: Albany, NY
100,000:1 = The NEW LCD contrast ratio to beat.
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/ces20...oul-227094.php
How is it in one show LCD's have gone from last weeks "high-end" of 8000:1 to yesterdays 50,000:1 to todays 100000:1?!
I'd love an explanation as to how they are achieving these results. Is it simply the LED arrays?
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/ces20...oul-227094.php
How is it in one show LCD's have gone from last weeks "high-end" of 8000:1 to yesterdays 50,000:1 to todays 100000:1?!
I'd love an explanation as to how they are achieving these results. Is it simply the LED arrays?
Administrator Alumnus
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 26,326
Likes: 131
From: Northwest IN
I thought contrast ratios were very subjective and depended upon how the manufacturer decideD to measure/state it???
I've always thought contrast ratios, for the most part, were worthless...
I've always thought contrast ratios, for the most part, were worthless...
Thread Starter
The Creator
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 37,950
Likes: 8
From: Albany, NY
Originally Posted by Scrib
I thought contrast ratios were very subjective and depended upon how the manufacturer decideD to measure/state it???
I've always thought contrast ratios, for the most part, were worthless...
I've always thought contrast ratios, for the most part, were worthless...
On top of that, TV manufacturers tend not to use standardized testing procedures, so yeah, ratios can be inflated.
Nonetheless comparing, say, the dynamic contrast ratio of one LCD to another LCD is pretty reliable.
Thread Starter
The Creator
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 37,950
Likes: 8
From: Albany, NY
Video: Samsung's Remote-controlled Automatic Wall Mount
Swivels 30 degrees and tilts 20 degrees. Available for 42 & 50-inch displays (umm, what about 46"?!)
Swivels 30 degrees and tilts 20 degrees. Available for 42 & 50-inch displays (umm, what about 46"?!)
Thread Starter
The Creator
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 37,950
Likes: 8
From: Albany, NY
Originally Posted by soopa
hehe, Wikipedia FTW. you're semi-right, says the same quote from Wikipedia.
"Initial versions of Sony's Blu-ray Disc-authoring software only included support for MPEG-2 video, so the initial Blu-ray Discs were forced to use MPEG-2 rather than the newer codecs, VC-1 and H.264. An upgrade was subsequently released supporting the newer compression methods so the second wave of Blu-ray Disc titles were able to make use of this."
This explains what I said, the newest discs (2nd gen) are indentical to HD-DVD in quality. They're both using VC-1.
Like I said, the first gen of Blu-ray discs were rushed, but I thought bad transfers were the only problem, turns out you're right they were using MPEG-2
"Initial versions of Sony's Blu-ray Disc-authoring software only included support for MPEG-2 video, so the initial Blu-ray Discs were forced to use MPEG-2 rather than the newer codecs, VC-1 and H.264. An upgrade was subsequently released supporting the newer compression methods so the second wave of Blu-ray Disc titles were able to make use of this."
This explains what I said, the newest discs (2nd gen) are indentical to HD-DVD in quality. They're both using VC-1.
Like I said, the first gen of Blu-ray discs were rushed, but I thought bad transfers were the only problem, turns out you're right they were using MPEG-2
