HD Camcorders
Thread Starter
sup
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,147
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From: NYC
HD Camcorders
I haven't made the jump yet, but this one looks great...when it comes out in october
While this HG10 shares a lot of specs with the Canon HR10, its DVD-recording HD camcorder brother, this new shooter feels extremely compact in the hand, and while it is indeed the world's smallest hard disk HD camcorder, it's not too small, still giving you easy access to its controls. We especially like the scroll wheel on the widescreen viewfinder instead of that touchscreen on models from Panasonic and others, which in the real world tend to end up such a smudged-up mess it's hard to even see your video underneath all those fingerprints.
A slight disappointment is the life of the standard battery included with the camcorder, which Canon says will give you an hour of shooting, and that's without the LCD viewscreen on. If you want longer battery life, you'll have to spring for the extended battery, which lasts a quoted 2 hours and 15 minutes.
We especially like the way Canon applies its AVCHD codec, different from the way this compression is being used by Sony and Panasonic. Canon's compression scheme is able to lightly compress some scenes, while more heavily compressing others. For example, a simple clear blue sky can stand a lot more compression than a complicated crowd scene or a bunch of flowers.
How does the resulting footage look? Canon was unable to show us any video coming out of this camcorder at our preview session in New York, but we did see some of the HR10's 12Mbps footage which looked excellent with very few compression artifacts. The good news is that this HG10 compresses its footage even less, at a rate of 15Mbps, so it'll probably look even better. Even at that 12Mbps compression rate we saw, it looked every bit as good as HDV footage, which compresses at 25Mbps. It was some crispy-clean HD video, remarkably sharp with excellent color saturation and accuracy. Big thumbs-up.
This HG10 is recording in 1080i HD, at 1440x1080 at all compression settings. As is the case with most 1080i camcorders, only 1440 pixels per scanline are written to disk to save space, anamorphically squeezed from this HG10's 1920x1080 sensors to 1440x1080 on disk, and then stretched back out for the full 1920x1080i when it's played back.
Canon also uses "super range optical image stabilization," which uses a gyro sensor that detects motion, and sends a signal to a processor that tells a lens-shifting element to move. Then a processor analyzes the image, and if it determines the framing could be even more stable, it sends a signal back to the lens to tweak it further. It's an optical system, but it has a unique ability to feed back even more information in a second pass of stabilization. The result is good stabilization of high-frequency shaking as other systems can do, but also stabilization of subtle hand movements.
Overall, this looks like a great new camcorder from Canon. Its AVCHD format is finally becoming more widely accepted, too, with Apple's Final Cut Pro editing software now compatible with the format, along with the excellent Windows video editing application Sony Vegas Pro 7e. Unfortunately, Adobe hasn't jumped on the AVCHD bandwagon yet, but Adobe officials told us they were feverishly working on it. Adobe is planning to include AVCHD support with future updates of Premiere Pro CS3, which we hope will trickle down to Premiere Elements. But you can still edit this camcorder's footage without buying any more software, at least on the PC—Canon said a version of the Windows-only Corel (formerly Ulead) VideoStudio 11 will be included with this HG10 camcorder.
Canon says the HG10 will be priced at $1299, and will ship in early October in the United States.
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/hd-camcor...der-284706.php
While this HG10 shares a lot of specs with the Canon HR10, its DVD-recording HD camcorder brother, this new shooter feels extremely compact in the hand, and while it is indeed the world's smallest hard disk HD camcorder, it's not too small, still giving you easy access to its controls. We especially like the scroll wheel on the widescreen viewfinder instead of that touchscreen on models from Panasonic and others, which in the real world tend to end up such a smudged-up mess it's hard to even see your video underneath all those fingerprints.
A slight disappointment is the life of the standard battery included with the camcorder, which Canon says will give you an hour of shooting, and that's without the LCD viewscreen on. If you want longer battery life, you'll have to spring for the extended battery, which lasts a quoted 2 hours and 15 minutes.
We especially like the way Canon applies its AVCHD codec, different from the way this compression is being used by Sony and Panasonic. Canon's compression scheme is able to lightly compress some scenes, while more heavily compressing others. For example, a simple clear blue sky can stand a lot more compression than a complicated crowd scene or a bunch of flowers.
How does the resulting footage look? Canon was unable to show us any video coming out of this camcorder at our preview session in New York, but we did see some of the HR10's 12Mbps footage which looked excellent with very few compression artifacts. The good news is that this HG10 compresses its footage even less, at a rate of 15Mbps, so it'll probably look even better. Even at that 12Mbps compression rate we saw, it looked every bit as good as HDV footage, which compresses at 25Mbps. It was some crispy-clean HD video, remarkably sharp with excellent color saturation and accuracy. Big thumbs-up.
This HG10 is recording in 1080i HD, at 1440x1080 at all compression settings. As is the case with most 1080i camcorders, only 1440 pixels per scanline are written to disk to save space, anamorphically squeezed from this HG10's 1920x1080 sensors to 1440x1080 on disk, and then stretched back out for the full 1920x1080i when it's played back.
Canon also uses "super range optical image stabilization," which uses a gyro sensor that detects motion, and sends a signal to a processor that tells a lens-shifting element to move. Then a processor analyzes the image, and if it determines the framing could be even more stable, it sends a signal back to the lens to tweak it further. It's an optical system, but it has a unique ability to feed back even more information in a second pass of stabilization. The result is good stabilization of high-frequency shaking as other systems can do, but also stabilization of subtle hand movements.
Overall, this looks like a great new camcorder from Canon. Its AVCHD format is finally becoming more widely accepted, too, with Apple's Final Cut Pro editing software now compatible with the format, along with the excellent Windows video editing application Sony Vegas Pro 7e. Unfortunately, Adobe hasn't jumped on the AVCHD bandwagon yet, but Adobe officials told us they were feverishly working on it. Adobe is planning to include AVCHD support with future updates of Premiere Pro CS3, which we hope will trickle down to Premiere Elements. But you can still edit this camcorder's footage without buying any more software, at least on the PC—Canon said a version of the Windows-only Corel (formerly Ulead) VideoStudio 11 will be included with this HG10 camcorder.
Canon says the HG10 will be priced at $1299, and will ship in early October in the United States.
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/hd-camcor...der-284706.php
Thread Starter
sup
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,147
Likes: 1
From: NYC
I am so tempted to get that and a mac book pro....but that's like three and a half grand all said and done. How do you play back the files on a HDTV without using the camcorder? I think I heard that the ps3 can play back certain high def files written onto a DVD, but I'm not sure if this is the same format, and I dont know of any other ways.
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 187
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From: Phoenix, AZ
I have a Panasonic HDC-SD1 AVCHD 3CCD and I love it. No tape or disk. Takes memory cards. 3CCD technology is really what you want. Same as pro cameras. Plus the camera is all optic. Zoom and Stablization.
Panasonic HDC-SD1
I use Pinnacle Studio 11 which will read and burn the AVCHD format directly to DVD or Blu-Ray. I also use the program to setup menu's, chapters, and add things like titles, transistion, music.
To watch your movie in the same HD quality you can burn the movie to a Blu-Ray disk or connect your camera to the TV. Of course you would need a Blu-ray player to watch the HD content. Most Blu-ray players (if not all) will play AVCHD files native.
I currently don't have a Blu-Ray burner or player so I just copy the AVCHD files to my computer and make regular DVD's, which looks fantastic by the way. At a later date I when I get a Blu-ray burner and player I can take the files and make HD movies with them.
Panasonic HDC-SD1
How do you play back the files on a HDTV without using the camcorder?
To watch your movie in the same HD quality you can burn the movie to a Blu-Ray disk or connect your camera to the TV. Of course you would need a Blu-ray player to watch the HD content. Most Blu-ray players (if not all) will play AVCHD files native.
I currently don't have a Blu-Ray burner or player so I just copy the AVCHD files to my computer and make regular DVD's, which looks fantastic by the way. At a later date I when I get a Blu-ray burner and player I can take the files and make HD movies with them.
Last edited by Tuetatesu; Aug 2, 2007 at 08:28 PM.
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 156
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I purchased the Sony HDR-HC3 9 months ago and am in love with it. The price has really come down on it too, I think you can pick it up for $900 now. I even picked up a Sony HD wide angle lens which rocks.
http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-camc...tag=prod.txt.1
http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-camc...tag=prod.txt.1
Big Block go VROOOM!
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 8,578
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From: Chicago Burbs
From the perspective of video production, the AVCHD format is sort of like "the MPEG-2 of high definition." It's true HD video but it's had the living hell compressed out of it (with H.264 IIRC). That isn't a bad thing if you're just watching the raw footage right out of the camcorder. Once you start editing though, the same caveats about the uncompress/work/recompress cycle that applied to MPEG-2 hard drive camcorders also apply to AVCHD hi def camcorders. This is all in theoretical though. Tuetatesu certainly sounds happy with his results.
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nnInn
Joined: Mar 2006
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Originally Posted by ViperrepiV
now apple's iMovie or iVideo or whatever it called can handle AVCHD files
When did this come about? The only thing I've seen was that Final Cut can do this.
I've had a Sony AVCHD since the first of the year, Pinnacle Studio 11 has been the only s/w that I've seen can do it so far for PC.
Thread Starter
sup
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,147
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From: NYC
^^ since this week when they released the new iMovie 08. I think final cut express works with AVCHD as well. Apparently though in general, iMovie 08 isn't as feature rich as 06. but if you buy 08, you can download 06 for free
Thread Starter
sup
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,147
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From: NYC
Originally Posted by Billiam
From the perspective of video production, the AVCHD format is sort of like "the MPEG-2 of high definition." It's true HD video but it's had the living hell compressed out of it (with H.264 IIRC). That isn't a bad thing if you're just watching the raw footage right out of the camcorder. Once you start editing though, the same caveats about the uncompress/work/recompress cycle that applied to MPEG-2 hard drive camcorders also apply to AVCHD hi def camcorders. This is all in theoretical though. Tuetatesu certainly sounds happy with his results.
How do you get footage from the HDV to the computer to edit?
nnInn
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 37,670
Likes: 1,084
Originally Posted by ViperrepiV
^^ since this week when they released the new iMovie 08. I think final cut express works with AVCHD as well. Apparently though in general, iMovie 08 isn't as feature rich as 06. but if you buy 08, you can download 06 for free
Banned
Joined: Jan 2007
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From: Santa Monica, Ca
Originally Posted by ViperrepiV
How do you get footage from the HDV to the computer to edit?
Bill, I view HDV as the "mpeg2 of the HD world"...and it technically is, and it technically blows. Panasonic has the better product with their direct to non-voltile media P2 System. As for AVCHD. It was co-developed by Sony and Panasonic. Sony decided to go with the old "to tape" system, which is archaic and outdated. And Panasonic went with direct to SD card, much like their P2 system. Its quicker, more effective, and has much less degradation to the image that the compression of tape does. In the end, its a consumer format period. And that for the people these cameras are aimed at is good enough for government work.
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 187
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From: Phoenix, AZ
AVCHD place native on most BluRay players (including PS3), so if you have one all you need to do is copy the file on a BluRay DVD and pop it in a player.
As to converting for DVD. You can use MPEG-4 or as the previous poster said MPEG-2. MPEG-4 host all of the HD resolution as to MPEG-2 only goes up to 720p.
I currently don't have a BluRay player or burner for my computer yet, but plan to get them down the road. So currently I use Studio 11 and my AVCHD files and make regular DVD's. Which by the way look fantastic.
With my high quality up-converting DVD player you'd have to look close to see the difference beteen the DVD and playing HD straight from the camera on using HDMI connector. Not saying you can't see a difference, but it's very close.
As to converting for DVD. You can use MPEG-4 or as the previous poster said MPEG-2. MPEG-4 host all of the HD resolution as to MPEG-2 only goes up to 720p.
I currently don't have a BluRay player or burner for my computer yet, but plan to get them down the road. So currently I use Studio 11 and my AVCHD files and make regular DVD's. Which by the way look fantastic.
With my high quality up-converting DVD player you'd have to look close to see the difference beteen the DVD and playing HD straight from the camera on using HDMI connector. Not saying you can't see a difference, but it's very close.
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