Moog-Type-S

Which is better DLP or Rear Projection LCD in terms of
Picture quality, Longevity (new DLP's now have LED versus the old lamp & wheel)

Thoughts?

IlliNorge

Samsung's DLP has a pretty good PQ. Sony makes a nice LCD projector with their XBR series. If price is no object I would call it a tie. Of course you can get 2 or 3 DLP's for the price of a Sony.

NetEditor

Stay away from the old wheel RPTVs. They suffer from the rainbow effect. Siggy is the man to ask about RPTVs.

Moog-Type-S

I was thinking if I go DLP it would be the new LED light engine.

Siddig

Samungs LED DLP sets are very nice. At the same time Sonys RP LCD sets are very nice as well. Out of the box with no calibrating Samsungs are a little more natural and Sonys are little more saturated if you go to check them out in person.

SiGGy

colorwheel = bad

thanks

Ya, DLP >> LCD RPTV (*not* LCoS, HDILA, SXRD; they are in a different class) .

LCD RPTV sucks in comparison to a LED driven DLP.

LCD RPTV negatives:
Bad blacks
Bad pixel response time, DLP can react much faster giving a clearer picture with moving objects. LCD panels tend to ghost (smear) due to pixel change latency. (time it takes the crystals to twist and untwist making them ghost on the screen)
Screen door effect you can see in LCD is annoying (you can see the space between the pixels in the LCD panel)
Most LCD RPTVs are not 1080p they are 720p native
LCDs to have green push (too much green in the picture, note a football game played on grass when watching a LCD RPTV, the grass is too green)

DLP has a lot of advantages over LCD RPTV, now if you're talking about LCoS, HDILA, or SXRD it's another story...

I agree with everyone in here, the Samsung LED driven DLP is a nice set.

Moog-Type-S

^^ Good info Siggy. Thanx

How does a DLP (LED driven) compare to LCoS, SXRD...?

soopa

You really should see for yourself. In my opinion the latest LED DLP's are on par if not superior in some respects to the SXRD/LCoS panels. Especially in the case of Sony's SXRD sets which have been plagued with bugs.

That said, you'll hear opinions to the complete opposite.

Moog-Type-S

...but that's what I am looking for: opinions.

My current RPTV purchased in 2001 is dying a slow death. My picture gets "the bends" every now and then.
So it looks like I'm in the market for a new TV. Looking for 50-55".
I have plenty of room for RPTV...no need for Plasma or LCD.

IlliNorge

52" is about the max for an LCD and for me 46" is the limit. Beyond that DLP is the way to go. The LED's I've seen are almost as nice as the comparable LCD's even though they are an extra 10" or so bigger.

You also need to visually check out a glossy screen versus a matte finish. You can get a 52" glossy LCD for about $3000. Some people are drawn to those screens like moths to a lamp.

SiGGy

HDILA and SXRD are both LCoS technology, just so you know. All 3 acronyms refer to the same thing... HDILA=JVC's version of LCoS. SXRD=Sony's version of LCoS.

Between LED driven DLP and LCoS Both have their pluses and minuses...

Sadly the DLP chip they use are still the wobulated type. They emulate 1080P by wobulating the chip. While it's not too big of an issue, the chip wastes a lot of cycles doing it that could be used for better pixel rendering.

There are true 1080p DLP chips; I'd expect to see them in the low end RPTVs next year sometime. (hopefully)

A big issue they need to overcome in the 1st generation LED driven DLPs is brightness. They're currently size limited because the LEDs are not as bright as projection bulbs are...


Here's a little myth busting for you...

Also just because they removed the color wheel doesn't mean they completely fixed the rainbow issue. The red, green and blue LEDs, are not all on at the same time. They alternate, only one color is on at a time because there is only ONE DLP chip. You would need 3 DLP chips to have all 3 primary colors on simultaneously. So this LED setup is really no different than a color wheel; it's biggest benefit is it has no moving parts and it doesn't use a projection bulb. So you still have the possibility to see rainbows! A lot of people are touting the fact that the LED Samsung is rainbow free; but they really don't know what they are talking about. The LEDs accomplish the same thing the color wheel does without any moving parts, but they do it a lot faster. The TV still cycles between red,green and blue... Only one color is ever truely present on the screen at a time... After reading the specs you can see the LEDs systems cycles colors a lot faster than the mechanical color wheel systems do. So it might help make it harder to see; but the possibility is still there. Probably a lot harder to see though... and I for one can't see them. So it's not an issue for me

Again this is another advantage for LCoS. It's not cheating doing it's color, and it's not cheating doing it's 1080p resolution. It's only disadvantage is it uses a projection bulb. It tends to stand superior on all other fronts... color gamut, black levels and brightness and sub contrast...

End the end I'd buy a LCoS still over a Samsung LED driven DLP. Once they get a 3 chip version of the DLP and a true 1080p DLP chip I'd consider it. To top things off they still don't make LED DLP's large enough for my needs...

So for me I wouldn't go with the Samsung. It is a good TV, but it just cuts too many corners and isn't large enough for me. Not to mention it's a 1st gen.

Soopa brought up some issues with SXRD. I'm sure he's referring to the 1st gen units (2 years ago) that had the green blob problem. That's long since been fixed...

And yes, it is a bit of a gamble going with any 1st gen technology. Long term bugs like the green blob in the sony's sometimes don't show up in Q&A testing and the end user finds the problem

SiGGy

Do you mean the TV screen itself? No way I'd ever want a glossy finish. With a glossy finish you'll get bad reflections off the screen. That's the last thing you'd want...

It may be trendy, but it'll make watching TV in a room with any background lights annoying as hell.

Moog-Type-S

^^ Being that I only need 50-55" the current LED should not be a problem...should I be leary of buying the first release of LED DLP?

SiGGy

re-read my post. I edited it...

IlliNorge

Let me do some myth busting of my own. I recently bought Samsung's 4655 with the glossy screen and unless you have a small focused light directly behind your couch and you are looking for it, you don't see any reflections at all. I was actually expecting it and willing to sacrifice for a better PQ, but was pleasantly surprised. And a matte finish reflects the same amount of light, albeit more diffuse.

I believe synth19 also bought this set and he found no noticeable reflection.

SiGGy

There's no myth's here... this isn't something new...

High gloss=reflection; you can see things on the screen like a mirror. The last thing you want is a mirror like finish on your TV screen. On a day where the sun is in your room you'll be looking at yourself on the TV screen.

It's a major sacrifice IMO, especially if you have any lights on in the room or any direct sunlight. And it's easily noticeable... It's a trendy thing to do; it's just as annoying on the notebook computers as it is on the TVs.

I will admit it can help blacks out since it is tinted slightly. But it also reduces the total brightness of your set. It's only gains are in proper low light level rooms.

1st thing all RPTV tweakers do to improve the picture is to take off the high gloss glare screen...

Perhaps I need to see this new type of screen material. All the ones I've seen in the past 6 months look horrible.

IlliNorge

Maybe it's different with LCD's. I think notebooks typically have stationary objects (like pictures or text) displayed and thus reflections can be distracting. But I'm telling you I have a glossy screen, some ambient light, 20/20 vision and I do not notice any glare or reflections.

When the TV is off, that's another matter. It's a big tinted mirror.