Ventless Fireplaces
#1
Administrator Alumnus
Thread Starter
Ventless Fireplaces
Alright... Got that project itch again.
We elected not to go with a fireplace when we built. Why? Primarily to save some bucks and explore something down the road that would better suit our tastes, etc.
Given the house it already built and the location I was thinking of putting it, I think ventless is the best bet. But I don't know much about them. Anyone have any thoughts?
We elected not to go with a fireplace when we built. Why? Primarily to save some bucks and explore something down the road that would better suit our tastes, etc.
Given the house it already built and the location I was thinking of putting it, I think ventless is the best bet. But I don't know much about them. Anyone have any thoughts?
#2
Senior Moderator
I just looked at the same.. Two choices Gas or Electric. Everything they sell at Lowes or Home Depot will just vary in size and whether it's gas or electric from what I gather.
Not much to them from what I saw.
Being in a townhouse I'm planning on doing the same and building the frame myself. I was surprised at how cheap the fireplaces were.
Not much to them from what I saw.
Being in a townhouse I'm planning on doing the same and building the frame myself. I was surprised at how cheap the fireplaces were.
#6
Administrator Alumnus
Thread Starter
Problem I've read about ventless is their heat output isn't all that great since; you don't vent. ![Ponder](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/ponder.gif)
Yea, pellet stoves are $$$ but are super efficient from what I've heard. And given the cost of natural gas... Dunno.
![Ponder](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/ponder.gif)
Yea, pellet stoves are $$$ but are super efficient from what I've heard. And given the cost of natural gas... Dunno.
#7
I have a wood fireplace and honestly I have never used it. I guess when the electric bills get too high then I'll consider it.
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#8
Senior Moderator
#9
I now drive an accord....
![Nod](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/nod.gif)
I have a wood burning fireplace and I can't wait to fire it up for the first time. Hopefully I will get to this weekend
![Wish](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/wish.gif)
#10
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You need some way of moving the hot air throughout the room. Something like this.
http://qtfpsfan.com/
http://qtfpsfan.com/
![](http://qtfpsfan.com/images/Fireplace_with_Fans.jpg)
#12
Team Owner
![what](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/what.gif)
I use my wood-burning fireplace all the time. I'm already a 1/4 way through my first face cord of the winter, plus I burned all the scraps from my basement wood shop.
#15
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Still leaning towards a pellet stove. Specifically from Harman.
http://www.harmanstoves.com/list.asp...ellet%20Stoves
http://www.harmanstoves.com/list.asp...ellet%20Stoves
![ugh](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/ugh.gif)
#18
Still leaning towards a pellet stove. Specifically from Harman.
http://www.harmanstoves.com/list.asp...ellet%20Stoves
http://www.harmanstoves.com/list.asp...ellet%20Stoves
#19
Instructor
We had a wood burning fireplace that we converted to ventless gas for a few reasons.
1. Ventless gas is much more efficient than either wood or vented, the heat goes into the room and not up the chimney.
2. No matter how careful you are wood burning fireplaces are just plain messy. Wood crap always dropping on the floor when toting the logs in. Then after a few fires cleaning out the ashes and charred wood..... and don't forget to have the chimney cleaned or you can expect a chimney fire.
3. When the power goes out(ice storms) the blowers in our furnaces doesn't work and so no heat. At least with the ventless gas we can pretty much heat the downstairs.
4. Our ventless puts out up to 45,000 btu's so it heats a large area. At full tilt it will drive me out of our 15x22 living room.
1. Ventless gas is much more efficient than either wood or vented, the heat goes into the room and not up the chimney.
2. No matter how careful you are wood burning fireplaces are just plain messy. Wood crap always dropping on the floor when toting the logs in. Then after a few fires cleaning out the ashes and charred wood..... and don't forget to have the chimney cleaned or you can expect a chimney fire.
3. When the power goes out(ice storms) the blowers in our furnaces doesn't work and so no heat. At least with the ventless gas we can pretty much heat the downstairs.
4. Our ventless puts out up to 45,000 btu's so it heats a large area. At full tilt it will drive me out of our 15x22 living room.
#22
Administrator Alumnus
Thread Starter
$2700 just for the stove and that's with $600 back from the manufacturer.
However, Obama's plan calls for a 30% CREDIT on these things for 2009 and 2010. The IRS needs to figure out the guidelines, but if what goes through that is on the table, I'm golden. So that's $1000 in my pocket.
However, Obama's plan calls for a 30% CREDIT on these things for 2009 and 2010. The IRS needs to figure out the guidelines, but if what goes through that is on the table, I'm golden. So that's $1000 in my pocket.
#23
Team Owner
What type of credit does it qualify for?
#24
Administrator Alumnus
Thread Starter
http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index...wthread/35861/
As you are undoubtedly aware, the 2009 Economic Stimulus legislation was signed into law on Feb. 17th, which includes a 30% tax credit (up to $1,500) for homeowners who purchase a 75%-efficient biomass-burning stove in 2009 and 2010. Below/attached are FAQs that help answer basic questions concerning the legislation.
While the new tax credit takes affect immediately (and also applies to qualifying stoves already purchased in 2009), the Internal Revenue Service has not issued the exact testing guidelines to determine which appliances meet the efficiency requirements to qualify for the credit.
However, if the IRS accepts the HPBA’s and EPA’s recommendations, Harman has determined that all of the products listed below will qualify, regardless of the test criteria. These models include:
Accentra XXV Advance P38 P43 P61 P61A P68 ACC Insert
Oakwood TL300 WIN HydroFlex60 PF100 PC45 PB105
Frequently Asked Questions about the Tax Credit
Q: What is a federal consumer tax credit?
A: Consumers claim the credit on their federal income tax form at the end of the year. The credit then increases the tax refund or decreases the amount the taxpayer has to pay.
Note: With regard to tax credits vs. tax deductions, in general, a tax credit is more valuable than a similar tax deduction. A tax credit reduces the tax you pay, dollar-for-dollar. Tax deductions - such as those for home mortgages and charitable giving - lower your taxable income.
Q: When does this tax credit go into effect and how long will it last?
A: The tax credit goes into effect January 1, 2009 and is valid for the purchase of a qualifying biomass-burning stove in 2009 and 2010. The sales receipt must indicate that the purchase was made between January 1, 2009 and December 31, 2010.
Q: Who is determining the tax credit guidelines for the qualifying units?
A: The Department of the Treasury, and specifically, the IRS.
Q: How will a consumer know if a product qualifies for the credit?
A: We will certify each product that meets or exceeds the IRS efficiency requirements. At the time of purchase, the consumer will be able to download a “certification statement” from our website that certifies that the product qualifies for the tax credit. Consumers should keep the certification statement for their records, but are not required to submit a copy of the certification statement when submitting their tax return to the IRS.
Q: What should a consumer who already purchased a stove do while waiting for qualifying information?
A: He or she should save all receipts along with the stove manufacturer’s name and model information.
Q: How does the language in this legislation differ from what was passed in October 2008?
A: The new legislation 1) increases the tax credit from $300 to 30% of the total cost of a biomass-burning stove, 2) extends the credit to purchases in 2010, and 3) measures the stove’s efficiency based on the lower heating value.
As you are undoubtedly aware, the 2009 Economic Stimulus legislation was signed into law on Feb. 17th, which includes a 30% tax credit (up to $1,500) for homeowners who purchase a 75%-efficient biomass-burning stove in 2009 and 2010. Below/attached are FAQs that help answer basic questions concerning the legislation.
While the new tax credit takes affect immediately (and also applies to qualifying stoves already purchased in 2009), the Internal Revenue Service has not issued the exact testing guidelines to determine which appliances meet the efficiency requirements to qualify for the credit.
However, if the IRS accepts the HPBA’s and EPA’s recommendations, Harman has determined that all of the products listed below will qualify, regardless of the test criteria. These models include:
Accentra XXV Advance P38 P43 P61 P61A P68 ACC Insert
Oakwood TL300 WIN HydroFlex60 PF100 PC45 PB105
Frequently Asked Questions about the Tax Credit
Q: What is a federal consumer tax credit?
A: Consumers claim the credit on their federal income tax form at the end of the year. The credit then increases the tax refund or decreases the amount the taxpayer has to pay.
Note: With regard to tax credits vs. tax deductions, in general, a tax credit is more valuable than a similar tax deduction. A tax credit reduces the tax you pay, dollar-for-dollar. Tax deductions - such as those for home mortgages and charitable giving - lower your taxable income.
Q: When does this tax credit go into effect and how long will it last?
A: The tax credit goes into effect January 1, 2009 and is valid for the purchase of a qualifying biomass-burning stove in 2009 and 2010. The sales receipt must indicate that the purchase was made between January 1, 2009 and December 31, 2010.
Q: Who is determining the tax credit guidelines for the qualifying units?
A: The Department of the Treasury, and specifically, the IRS.
Q: How will a consumer know if a product qualifies for the credit?
A: We will certify each product that meets or exceeds the IRS efficiency requirements. At the time of purchase, the consumer will be able to download a “certification statement” from our website that certifies that the product qualifies for the tax credit. Consumers should keep the certification statement for their records, but are not required to submit a copy of the certification statement when submitting their tax return to the IRS.
Q: What should a consumer who already purchased a stove do while waiting for qualifying information?
A: He or she should save all receipts along with the stove manufacturer’s name and model information.
Q: How does the language in this legislation differ from what was passed in October 2008?
A: The new legislation 1) increases the tax credit from $300 to 30% of the total cost of a biomass-burning stove, 2) extends the credit to purchases in 2010, and 3) measures the stove’s efficiency based on the lower heating value.
#25
Administrator Alumnus
Thread Starter
So the pellet stove got installed this weekend.
Quite impressed with the unit. It gives off a tremendous amount of heat. So much taht it will heat our house throughout, including the second floor. We put up a hearth gate to keep the little guy away.
yes it is a stove, so it's a bit of a departure from the tradition recessed fireplaces out there, but my wife who is the most conservative person I know seems to like the looks of it.
Quite impressed with the unit. It gives off a tremendous amount of heat. So much taht it will heat our house throughout, including the second floor. We put up a hearth gate to keep the little guy away.
yes it is a stove, so it's a bit of a departure from the tradition recessed fireplaces out there, but my wife who is the most conservative person I know seems to like the looks of it.
#27
where is....
my parents have a ventless, i cant feel crap from it. even though we have a blower installed to it, still doesn't really heat anything up. but then again the living room is pretty big....
#29
Team Owner
Wow that looks much better than I expected. I like the tax savings info too.
What's involved with the installation? Can it be self install? Can it be installed on a wood floor? How much do pellets cost and can they be picked up at Home Depot/Lowes?
I may like to do something like this in my dining room because the lower level of my house is a bit cool because of some HVAC mods that were required after the house was treated for termites.
So you are burning stuff, where does the smoke go?
What's involved with the installation? Can it be self install? Can it be installed on a wood floor? How much do pellets cost and can they be picked up at Home Depot/Lowes?
I may like to do something like this in my dining room because the lower level of my house is a bit cool because of some HVAC mods that were required after the house was treated for termites.
So you are burning stuff, where does the smoke go?
Last edited by doopstr; 03-07-2009 at 09:40 AM.
#30
Administrator Alumnus
Thread Starter
You can not install it on a wood floor. It must be installed on a fire-proof material. I put down 1/2" of cement board and then tiled the area. You can buy a hearth pad that can lay down on any surface to meet code.
http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Woodst...er/Hearth-Pads
A ton of pellets (40lb bags each) can be had around here for about $239. Home Depot and Lowes do sell bags, but you have to be careful. You need to buy good quality pellets or you can run into issues from efficiency, to the pellets clogging the auger, etc. Hardwood pellets only, that are premium quality. Premium is defined at less than 1% ash. My dealer is just down the street so unless pellet quality suffers from him, I'll be going there to stock up.
http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclo...d_pellets.html
So you are burning stuff, where does the smoke go?
You have to vent outside. And while the venting requirements are somewhat strict, you only need to out and up three feet. I'd take a pic of my install, but it's raining. I went up 7 feet on the house due to meeting code because the location of my utilities outside and the higher you go, the better natural draft you create. These things need an outlet to run the blower (5 amps is all) and should you lose power, you need the outside vertical rise to pull the smoke out. These things work on negative/positive pressure.
If you do get serious about this, I would recommend a Harman stove. They're the most popular in the market and have some really good things going for them over other stoves. They are expensive, but all non-big box makes are, but the efficiency and translated energy savings is really worth it.
Here's the manual for my stove. You can get an idea on the venting requirements, etc. Venting info starts on page 7. The manual will also give you an idea on clearance requirements.
http://www.harmanstoves.com/doc/p68m.pdf
Good luck. And certainly let me know if you have any other questions.
#31
Team Owner
Looks good. It'll be really classy when you can take the fence down from around it.
#33
Team Owner
Thanks for all the info. Cool(err HOT) toy!
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