mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

To make a long story short:

My girlfriend and I lease a property from a family. The property is located on the rear of the lot and they live in the primary residence located on the same property. I've been having some problems with them regarding roof leaks, furnace issues, smoke detectors, etc.

Come to find out the property isn't even zoned multi-family, they aren't registered with the county or the state as landlords, and technically it is illegal for them to lease us the property. It's a huge debacle that is partially my fault for not doing my homework prior to signing the lease but ultimately it's their property that they are illegally leasing to us.

What should I do? I know eventually I'm going to have to move out and find a new place but that is going to cause me to endure some serious expenses. I'm going to have to break this lease, but while that is being settled in court I'm going to need to continue paying rent into escrow so that I'm not found at fault for not paying rent. I'm going to have to pay to move, pay a security deposit on a new place, and pay rent on the new place. I'm sure legal fees will come into play as well.

I'm sure my best bet is to just get an attorney but Jesus Christ I'm getting screwed here.

RaviNJCLs

iTrader: (4)

I would think they would also be in a lot of trouble for renting to you. Maybe more that you will be in. I have never checked any of the places I lived in to ensure that it was properly zoned.

I would tell the land lord that you are unhappy with the way they mis-represented themselves. Tell them you spoke to a lawyer, but you would rather have your deposit refunded to you plus any moneys they owe you instead of filing a formal report with your lawyer. See if that causes them to cooperate a bit. Maybe you can bluff enough to get your money back.

MR1

Post #2 sounds about right. I live in a state with strong consumer protection so you may want to search to see where your state stands on such matters. CA has a web site under consumer protection addressing landloard-tenant disputes, Maryland may have something similar. Do your homework before you tip your hand.

I am not attorney but suspect that your lease is a void contract (illegal) based on what you have said. If the contract is void I think everything in it is also void meaning there is no agreement regarding your notice or the deposit. If I'm correct then you get to move whenever and can live out or seek the return of your deposit.

You are closer to the situation and have more information than any of us, react accordingly. Congratulations for trying to determine what the right thing is and good luck.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

I don't think I'm in any legal trouble at all. My rent is paid in full and on time. They have no legal recourse to evict me. However, legally I can't live there. They offered a lease to me fraudulently and I accepted the lease without knowing the property can't be leased for these purposes.

Time to call a lawyer.

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

Then the lease is also illegal & thus void.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

What legal action can I take against them? Fraud? I'm going to need to get my security deposit back (plus interest as required by law), pay for moving expenses in order to move to a new residence, etc. Do you think I can go after them for previous month's rent? SIGH

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

How did you suddenly find this info out??

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

A lot of the information is available online.

Our area isn't zoned for multi-family use. Thus, it would be okay if they leased the entire property to us but they can not lease out a basement apartment for example or in our case a completely separate structure on the property. The building I lease and the primary residence share an address.

Additionally, I can search our property on the county's website to see if/when building permits were issued for the property. The property I lease was completely gutted and renovated 2 years ago. I learned today that no building permit was filed and thus no inspections of the HVAC, electric, plumbing, etc. were performed in the property. Also, no certificate of occupancy exists for my property.

Currently there is no flue installed on our natural gas furnace. For obvious reasons this is a big no-no and we haven't been able to use our furnace. It is beginning to get pretty cold here at night. Just about every government agency with jurisdiction here requires a functioning furnace in every rental property (A/C is not required).

In order to install a flue on the furnace the property owner need to hire a licenced HVAC contractor. That contractor will need to pull a permit and following the installation of the flue an inspection will be required by the county. Once that inspection occurs the county inspector will obviously realize that no previous permits were filed for mechanical, plumbing, electrical, etc. and the property which I lease will be condemned and my girlfriend and I will be out on our asses immediately.

So what do I do? I need to have an functioning furnace for obvious reasons. But if the furnace flue is installed the property will be condemned by the county for failure to file permits during construction.

Additionally, since the property which I rent is not zoned for multi-family use I can NOT acquire renters insurance. If ANYTHING happens to me, my girlfriend, any guests within our house, or any of our property we would need to sue our landlord for the loss. Because they are illegally renting this property on their lot they would not be able to successfully have an insurance claim pay for damages/injuries and thus they would need to pay out of pocket. Basically if a major loss were to occur I'd own their cars, possessions, and possibly their house.

So what do I do? I don't want to be evicted by the county because the property is condemned. This will cause me to pay for moving expenses, need to find immediate housing, etc. I talked to a lawyer and got a little free advice but I guess I'm going to need to open up the check book and really take legal action here.

MR1

Find a place, use next months rent for deposit, tell landlord you are moving and why at the end of month. Request deposit back for cause. If you have the nerve request moving expenses as well. Be prepared to have a legal battle. Make sure that you are 100% correct before you start.

Is it possible that they have a zoning variance of some sort that allowed the construction and occupancy? If so, any chance is is not showing up as being recorded? You can request assistance as you review the files hard copy. That information might require a personal trip to your planning or zoning office.

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

Why do you want to move anyway? Just cause you found this out? I'd just stick out the lease & then move. Play dumb if they get caught. Besides the chances of them getting into any troiuble is low unless you blow the whistle.

If you did move now, you would need to get into legal action & sue them for your $$ back.

pmptx

Seem slike winter in MD would require a furnace that was usable. No flue on the furnace means freeze to death or asphyxiate.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

^ Exactly. It was 33 degrees last night where I live and without a furnace it gets kinda cold. Plus I do have a dog that stays home during the day and in a few short weeks it will be cold throughout the day in the house.

In order for a flue to be installed on the furnace a licenced HVAC contractor will need to be hired to install it. A county permit will be required and thus a county inspection will be required to ensure the flue is installed properly. I'm sure once the county inspector comes out and realizes that ONLY a flue was installed during that time and that all the additional work in the home was performed without a permit the building will be condemned immediately and I'll be out on my ass.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

How much is your security deposit? What I would do is just find a new place and stop paying rent until it equaled the security deposit. This way you are not out any money and if they do try to kick you out, if won't matter b/c you'll have a new place lined up.

Otherwise you may need to buy a few space heaters (electric) and finish up the lease and just move out. Any other course of action sounds like it will cost you unnecessary money.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

The security deposit is only $950. Monthly rent (Utilities are provided by the landlord) is $1,500.

Here's the thing... they CAN'T take us to landlord-tenant court because they aren't legally landlords and the place we rent isn't registered as a rental property with the state or county.

And it is against federal law to rent a property without a working furnace. I refuse to buy electric space heaters and use them; serious fire hazard.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

I think I could sue them for fraud for offering a lease which they should have known was not legally possible to be valid.

I'm not out to gain from this... I just don't want to get screwed. My lease is supposed to protect me from things like this but because the property isn't zoned for multi-family use my lease is void. So I have no protection whatsoever.

I can't get renter's insurance and any loss to my property would need to be covered by the landlord's policy but since they are illegally renting the property the claim would be denied (talked to an insurance agent last night) so I would need to sue them civilly.

WHAT A MESS

Zippee

If you break the lease and they are not in the wrong you could be out some more money and not get your deposit back.

Talk to a lawyer and make absolutely sure of your grounds, it will cost you a hundred bucks or so but will likely save you money in the long run.

joerockt

Have you even talked to the people your leasing from? Who knows, they might not have a problem with you moving out ASAP. If they give you a hard time about it, then take further action.

Go with the path of least resistance first...

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

They are? We use 1 or 2 all of the time in the winter as do my parents and some neighbors (especially those with basements)... never had a problem... and we've used them for many, many years. We wouldn't leave them on all night or unattended, but otherwise, they're fine... especially newer ones.

Joerockt has a point though... may want to talk to the landlord first before worrying about the 15 "what-if's". Once they realize the deal they may take care of everything right away.

o3jeff

Do the notice that the heaters use a lot of power? I am just trying to weigh my options as to wether just turn up the heat(oil) or get a portable heater to use in the room I am in.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

They do not use that much. In fact, I think our plasma uses more. We run the space heater in the master bedroom as opposed to running the heat in the house since gas is so damn expensive. Don't get me wrong, we use the heat, but only to get the chill out of the house. It's programmed to shut off about an hour before we go to bed, so once we do go into the bedroom, we run the space heaters for a bit, turn them off before we fall asleep, and the temp is nice and comfortable.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

I have talked to a real estate lawyer, the county zoning board, and the permitting and inspections agency. All 3 say that I am in the "right" here. I haven't told the zoning board or the permitting and inspections agency the address yet because I don't want them coming out to my house and condemning it and leaving me out on my ass.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

I have talked to them and they said "you obviously aren't happy living here, why don't you just move out by the 15th and we'll give you back your deposit. That isn't an acceptable answer in it's self. But then they say "if you aren't out by the 15th we will call the zoning board on ourselves and have them out here on the 15th and force you out because it isn't legal for you to be here.

All of this because a letter I wrote to them stating our concerns.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

Here's the thing... they can't always be attended. I would like my house to stay at a comfortable temperature throughout the winter. I do have a dog in the house and I don't think it is humane for the dog to be in a freezing house during the day. Plus I can't stand watch in front of a space heater during the night either; I'm obviously sleeping.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

The lawyer has told me to do the following:

1) Start looking for a new place to live.
2) If you don't find a new place to live by the time your rent is due don't pay rent. (I will probably put my full rental amount into an escrow account to show the court I was willing and capable of paying on time).
3) Once you are out file suit against the landlord for moving expenses. Additionally, if comparable housing costs more file for the difference between what I'm paying now and what my new apartment costs.
4) Additionally, I could file for fraud and request all 3 month's rent be returned because the landlord knew the property could not be leased at the time the lease was signed and therefore offered a contract to me which they knew was illegal.

On top of all that before I move out I will most likely call Comcast (because the cable is illegally run to the house I rent). I will also call the zoning board and file a complaint. And finally I will call the permitting and inspections agency and have the place condemned.

Street Spirit

Good for you. Sounds like a very unsafe situation. Take care of it so they don't rent it out to other unsuspecting renters after you either.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

See, we only run them when we're around and we do not have any heat on at night. That's what the blankets are for . You having a dog makes it a different story b/c you're right, it wouldn't be fair to freeze the dog out during the day.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Sounds like a good plan. The lawyer appears to be on the ball, so I think if you follow his/her advice, you shouldn't come out of this thing worse then how you went in. If the landlord was somewhat cool it would be a different story, but it sounds like they are assholes... so honestly, I'd take them for all I can. File for fraud, turn them into Comcast, etc. Stick to them as much as possible.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

I would just love to see their faces when the place is condemned. Ripping out all the drywall, all the electric, all the HVAC. bwahahahahh

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

Oh and to top it off... not sure I mentioned this already in this post, but the property is already listed on Craigslist for rent available 11/15/06! They are so retarded.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

^ Wow, nice. They are really asking for it... huh?

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

They took the ads down off Craigslist but I was smart enough to print them out before they were deleted

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

All of this nonsense because I had the following legit complaints:

Battery powered smoke detectors have been installed on the first and second floors of the property. In accordance with Maryland Code, Article 38A, Sections 12A and 13 all smoke detectors installed in rental properties which had construction performed after July 1, 1990 must operate both by battery and on an alternating current primary source of power. Additionally, the smoke detectors must be connected together so that the detectors sound alerts simultaneously when one or both detect smoke. Please rectify this deficiency as soon as possible to ensure the safety of all occupants of the rental property.

The gas powered furnace located within the property does not currently have a flue installed. In order to ensure the safety of the occupants within the home and to allow for the property to be heated please install a flue as soon as reasonably possible.


As promised orally prior to our occupancy of the property, a fence was to be constructed in order to designate our yard from the yard shared with the other occupants living in the primary residence on the property. Maryland law defines a lease as any oral or written agreement, express or implied, creating a landlord-tenant relationship. (Maryland Code, Real Property, Section 1-101(h)).

As tenants we feel that the lack of a fence to designate our yard is a breech of the lease on part of the landlord. Please install a fence which designates an appropriate portion of the property so that we may have an area designated for our use and the use of our dog. Additionally, the installation of a fence to designate a portion of the yard for our use will ensure that all feces created by our dog have been properly disposed of. As you know a total of 4 dogs use the rear yard; segregating a portion of the yard will ensure the prompt and proper clean-up after our dog. It will also ensure the safety of our dog and the other dogs on the property.

Water infiltration has been identified within the Kitchen of the property. Based on our observations the water infiltration is the result of rain water entering the property. Please make any and all appropriate repairs to ensure further water does not infiltrate the interior of the property. Water infiltration can lead to microbial growth which may affect the health of occupants within the property. Additional water infiltration may be present within the Living Room of the property. Water staining was observed on a ceiling tile when we took occupancy of the property. To the best of our knowledge the source of the water infiltration was not remediated however a new ceiling tile was installed. No additional water infiltration has been observed during our occupancy within the residency.

The exhaust duct for the stove/microwave does not have a protective barrier to prevent wildlife from nesting within the duct. Birds and/or rodents have been heard within the duct during the day. To ensure birds and/or rodents do not currently or in the future occupy this duct please install a barrier to ensure wildlife can no longer enter the duct.

The picture quality received from the cable television and the speed and reliability of the “high-speed” internet access is poor. Several oral complaints have been made regarding this issue. We the tenants feel the problem may be related to electrical tape around the coaxial cable routed from the primary residence to the property which we lease. Please attempt to resolve this problem as we feel that we are entitled to properly functioning cable television and “high-speed” internet access as stipulated in our lease which states “Landlord shall be responsible for arranging for and paying for all utility services required on the Premises.”

If repairs to the cable are not possible we would be willing to discuss adding an amendment to the lease so that the cable currently serving the property could be disconnected so that we, the tenants, may personally contract a service provider to install television programming which will be properly functioning. Since we would no longer be utilizing a utility previously provided in our lease an adjustment of the monthly rent due would be expected.

joerockt

Well, you never mentioned that. Kinda screwed yourself when you sent that letter.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

How did I screw myself by sending a letter outlining my complaints regarding the property?

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

If they attempt to evict me because I filed a written complaint regarding problems at the property that will be considered a self-help eviction and will get them into HUGE problems.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Yeah, how is he screwed? They are all legit complaints that any landlord would need to fix...

joerockt

Was that your first notification to them regarding the problems? If so, that comes off kind of dickish. You live on their property you said, right? Why not just walk up to their door, knock on it and say "hey, hows it goin? Mind if I talk to you about a few issues?". Its no wonder they dont want to cooperate...

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

I had to write a letter because for 3 months I've been verbally complaining about the issues.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

And you know what... screw sugar coating anything regarding this... I look at this as a business transaction. I am in a contract to pay a total of $18,000 over the course of 12 months in exchange for the use of this property and utilities. If they aren't fulfilling their end of the agreement they don't deserve any pleasantries.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

I'm with you. If you tried to talk to them for 3 months and it got you nowhere, you did the right thing by following up in writing.

Be sure to keep us updated...