soopa

In the new crib, the back yard is almost all short weeds and clovers rather than real grass.

What are the first steps in the process to getting the yard covering more consistent and nice? The clovers don't really have a thick rooting so there's alot of mud.


UPDATE: Photos of the yard...

Scrib

Clover is a royal pain in the ass to get rid of.

The best way to get rid of them is to start fresh and put down new seed/sod after completely removing everything and starting with dirt.

If that's not in the cards, the stuff that works the best is from Ortho - Ortho® Weed-B-Gon® Chickweed, Clover and Oxalis Killer

http://www.ortho.com/index.cfm/event...ce73345d0d74a0

For general weeds, go with the weed killer from Ortho - New Ortho® Weed-B-Gon® MAX™ Weed Killer

http://www.ortho.com/index.cfm/event...ca022c7075c173


Both products won't harm what is left of your lawn. You may need to be pretty liberal with the product and once it's mostly gone, try to throw down some seed and water in. This will be a long process, but if persistent, you will win.

03SSMTL-S

i need to do this to the clover really took over this year

soopa

when is a good time to do it? anytime? or fall? or spring? whats involved with removing everything, how deep do i have to go? i actually wouldnt mind doing as i've a brick patio that has been overgrown, and is now settled slightly lower than the surrounding area. would be nice to put that an inch or two higher than the grass.

Scrib

You can eliminate the clover with chemicals at any time.

In terms of when to redo the lawn... Fall or spring.

You can rent a sod cutter at Home Depot. It goes down about 2 inches or so and cuts out everything above it. Rake the leftovers and grade it. You'll then be ready to go.

Or you can rent a roto-tiller. Set it to a shallow depth, till up the yard. Don't go too deep or things will settle unevenly.

The key is starting with clean soil. If I were you... I'd spray round up down on everything you want to die. Two applications, two weeks apart. Roundup will kill ANYTHING that is green. Be careful where you spray.

Once everything is brown and dead. Rake it all up... You'll can then throw down sod or seed.

Scrib

What is around the patio now? Anything?

Perhaps you can get away with removing soil by creating a rock bed with shrubs/perrenials around it? Would make the process a hell of a lot easier than hauling dirt away.

doopstr

I like to use bleach when I want to kill *. Works great on patios. Cheap too. As a bonus it will clean your bricks. They will look real good after repeated applications.

Just put 2 Gal a bleach into a cheap sprayer.

soopa

ill take pics

Dfreder2

That's why I chose to live in a condo.

Lawncare and snow shoveling at 4 a.m. on a Monday (or any day) is not my idea of fun.

chef chris

Or you can roto-till everything in & Ortho the hell out of everything. Never been a big fan of Round Up, but in some cases I guess it's useful...but if you already have mud, I'd just til everything under. Tilling will destroy most of the root systems of the weeds...it'll be plenty soft for seeding. Use some high quality seed, water frequently, lay straw over the fresh seed and use a high quality starter fertilizer. I'd wait until mid September to do this though.

Tiller is fairly cheap to rent too...but be prepared for a fight...they aren't the easiest things to muscle around

GreenMonster

Sometimes it feels like holding on to the tail of a tasmanian devil

I'm almost afaid to get rid of the clover in my yard. The backyard might not look as green with it

I'd try some of the weed killer stuff (like scrib recommended - Ortho® Weed-B-Gone, Bayer's "all in one" is another brand) before I'd till and resod or reseed.

Here's a link I posted in another thread that makes for some interesting reading....

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/...437499.html?40

Scrib

There are a lot of myths running around about RoundUp. Most are false. I can guess why you're not a big fan... RoundUp is no more dangerous than any other chemical you put in the ground. RoundUp just isn't slective about what it takes out.

chef chris

Actually, I was speaking in terms of the baren ground it will leave that may turn into a mud pit...I use Round Up from time to time, no biggie there.

If he wipes everything out & puts some straw down in case we get heavy rain, he'll be OK...but if not, it'll be near impossible to walk around the yard without slipping in the mud or he may lose some topsoil down the sewer, etc.

chef chris

On a side note...Ortho has always done a wonderful job at wiping out clover in my yards I usually only use the hose sprayer too...nothing fancy.

Shawn S

I pay Scotts lawn service about 400 bucks a year to take care of my lawn treatments.
I use to think this was a frivolous thing for the rich & lazy to do, but I’ve changed my mind.

They do EIGHT separate treatments a year including spring starter fertilizer, then several Weed & feed treatments and a Grub treatment.
Then in the fall they core aerate the entire lot and put down fall fertilizer.

For me to buy all that stuff and rent an aeration machine it would cost nearly that much.
So I really don’t think it’s all that bad.

This is only the second year I’ve had them and my lawn has improved greatly.

chef chris

That's worth a few hundred right there...

Shawn S

Yea, I know. I looked into it last year.
Just to rent the machine you’re talking 125 bucks for the day.
Then you have to borrow somebody’s pickup to get it home.
Then gas it up and chase it around for an hour and then take it back.

Shawn S

Here's everything they do:


Fertilization Your lawn receives at least five in-season Scotts feedings throughout the year, more in areas with extended growing seasons. Each feeding is made using only Scotts professional, timed-release fertilizers that are formulated for the specific needs of your lawn at the time of application. No common agriculture fertilizers are ever used.

Broadleaf Weed Control In mid-spring, we clear out dandelions and more than 50 other common lawn weeds. Then we watch for any new invaders throughout the year, and we eliminate them at no extra charge.

Crabgrass Prevention & Annual Weed Prevention One or more applications of Scotts Halts® Pre-Emergent are made in early spring to prevent crabgrass and/or contollable annual weeds from invading the lawn throughout the season. (limited availability)

GrubEx® Grub Protection We provide season-long protection against damaging lawn grubs. An unprotected lawn can be wiped out completely before the homeowner even knows they are there.

Late Fall Feeding A special late fall feeding known as “winterizing” in northern markets is designed to carry the gains made this year into next spring. That's how great lawns are made—by compounding the improvement from one season to the next.

Continuous Monitoring Your lawn is inspected, and its needs determined, before the first treatment is made. Thereafter, each treatment is recorded, and the lawn is continuously monitored to insure that it is progressing on schedule. If a problem develops between inspections, you can phone our customer “hotline” and a Scotts Lawn Specialist will be dispatched to your lawn to take care of the problem.

Core Aeration With this procedure, we remove small plugs of soil throughout your lawn to improve the flow of air, water, and fertilizer into the root zone of the lawn. This remedies “root choking” compacted soil problems. It is also effective in reducing the build-up of thatch in the lawn. (limited availability)

Disease Control If disease threatens your lawn, we have the full array of Scotts disease controls at our disposal to stop the spread of almost any disease.

Free Service Calls When you sign up for our Complete Care Service, should you have any questions about the conditions of your lawn, call us and we will dispatch a Scotts trained expert to your home—at no charge to you.

chef chris

Doesn't sound bad really...atleast until he gets settled in, so he can pickup where they leave off in a year or two...

soopa

Added some photos up top.

Shawn S

Looks like you have some issues with MOSS as well.
Go buy a couple of bags of granulated lime and a good broadcast spreader.
Lime is cheap. It’s only like 2-3 dollars a bag.

Scrib

That's going to take some work...

If it were me... I'd start fresh. The yard looks small enough where the cost of putting down sod would only be a couple hundred dollars. It would take that much alone in chemicals and fertilizer not to mention the time it would take...

I see weeds, moss, clover... Adam, you got it all. Unfortunately, not the stuff most people want!

soopa

The moss is on top of brick, shouldn't be too big a deal. I'm thinking I'll just bring out the pressure washer and then bleach the brick...

Sod huh? That'd work. Sounds easier than chemicals and seed.

Scrib

yih

if you can prep it and get rid of most of that, you can lay it down in the fall, water it in and just keep up with a regular fertilizer program. You'll be good to go.

dom

I agree with Scrib, lay down new sod. You'll probly have to spread some fresh soil before doing so though just to make sure it catches.

Nice Dog

chef chris

The one good thing about sodding that yard is it might bring the overall soil level up a bit...looks a bit low now.

Adam...under that tree where the moss is growing would be a GREAT place for a small pond or fountain...the shade will prevent algea from growing and allow fish to thrive. Might as well do that, cause grass is gonna have a tough time growing in that shade.

dom

Good point. There does seem to be too much shade. Any way to open things up a tad?

soopa

Yeah, the yard is in the shade most of the day. It is probably only exposed when the sun is coming from North or North-East.

Personally I like the shade, so I won't be cutting down trees. It was 91 degress yesterday and with all the windows open and ceiling fans on, the house was in the 70's.

Pond... that'd be pretty cool.

dom

Shade = Bad for pomodoros

soopa

where that playhouse is, is always in the sun. i can plant on that side.

worst case, i can plant on the hill on the side or front of the house. i'll have my tomatos damn it!!!

dom

What plans do you have for the playhouse?

Looks like it might make a good doghouse

chef chris

Adam, you can plant some now in a pot so you still have time for a crop this year...

soopa

Yeah it'll be a pimp doghouse. But i'll probably end up using it as a shed.

It has electricity too!

soopa

Huh? Tomatos? No way. MAYBE if I got mature plants. But most varieties of tomatos are ripening as we speak...

Could be hard to grow them at this point I think?

dom

No way, too late.

soopa

Right.

My mums tomatos are orange already...

dom

We had a tomato salad at my parents place on Monday

Mine are still green, not enough sun.

walpoll

I got rid of Spots of Crab Grass on my SOD, but now I have huge patches of Brown where it killed out the CrabGrass.

Next year, I'll treat the lawn when it's pre-emergent--and much easier to control. I've also pulled--or twisted up a blue million CrabGrass Stragglers.

It's kinda of fun to get 4,5, or six of the little buggers, but it never ends!!!!!!!!!!!!

chef chris

Yeah...looks like it. With our heat down here, we've had everything ripen at once.

Making tomatoe sauce with the Romas and just eating a ton of salad for the beefsteaks

m&b6speed

you wont get grass to grow unless you open up the overhead canopy a little. in areas that are really bad, you could go with a pond or fountain like mentioned above, or some type of rock garden. if the really bad spots are near the house, you could put in a nice paver patio, cause with no light coming in, the clovers and moss will grow back, and grass wont-this would fix your muddy situation- but they are expensive