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Hey, so i had another thread which was helpful in the remodeling of detached garage. I am trying to figure out how to layout the backyard. I have two mini backyards, the lower backyard is a bit claustrophoic with the neighbors house, and the upper backyard gets better light and is more "open aired". I am trying to balance between the flow of grassed backyard, versus having the outdoor eating area in better light. To put it simply, the lower backyard faces a "wall" of my neighbors house, and is in the shadows of my own house. The upper backyard gets better sun, and it less confined. I am demo'ing the driveway in the far right corner of the lot and putting in a playground. I need to have enough clearance from the top of the driveway to drive into the "barn" if need be.
To get an idea - the detached garage will remain disconnected with no driveway. I will be replacing the double door with a centered double wooden french door half glass, half wood. This will be big enough to drive a car through. It will be flanked by wooden shutters, barn style. A similar treatment will be used on the side window facing the house. It will be used to open up for entertaining, or future car storage, general storage, etc. I just cant come to terms with tearing it down.
Here are some options I mocked up:
1 - Demo the patio, and build a flagstone patio below the "barn". This will provide dual views to both backyards, however, it will bisect the backyard to two separate areas.
2 - Extend patio, maximize green space. The eating area will be more in the shade, and the view to the "second" upper backyard will be nonexistent. Trade off for most green space.
3 - Load up edge of lower backyard with the patio, to try to take away attention from the bordering neighbors house, and open up flow of greenspace.
4 - Convert picture window in living room to a door, and have a second walkout. Create a vertical patio that connects the house to the "barn". Have seating in front of the barn with a backdrop of the barn doors and sliders. Fire pit station will be along lower area of patio. The eating area will get better light, and face both yards. And the fire pit is placed in the more confined lower area, which is actual more quaint at night. The patio may also be stone and grass, i.e. flagstone with grass seams.
I think I am favoring option 2 and 4. Option 2 seems more conventional for future resale. Option 4 is more daring, and feels great on paper, but unsure about the execution.
What are your thoughts?
Last edited by ThermonMermon; 01-25-2017 at 04:45 PM.
Concept of what would go in place of the 2-car garage door. Then on the perpendicular wall, the window will be replaced by a larger window with similar shutters.
Thanks. I think 2 is a safe bet. It also allows the future potential to add more of a walkout feature. The house has new windows, less the old casement windows in the living rm (shown in the photos). Its a good opportunity to replace with doors instead of windows. Although, each window has a radiator underneath, and a window well to the basement, so it could be tricky. perhaps ditching one radiator, centering the other radiator in between the windows, and then adding a wooden grate over the basement window wells to bridge over to the patio.
...going through the process of sourcing out these doors. Some vendors that do custom wood doors are a bit nuts. RealCarriageDoors wanted $15k for the setup shown above inc. hardware and trim. Shipped partially assembled in raw wood. I found another carriage door vendor called Clineman ?sp? in PA, and hoping for better results.
Last edited by ThermonMermon; 01-26-2017 at 04:42 PM.
Can you source just the middle two doors and DIY the outside ones with some rollers and metal bar stock? I've seen lots of DIY's on sliding barn doors and they look pretty easy.
Can you source just the middle two doors and DIY the outside ones with some rollers and metal bar stock? I've seen lots of DIY's on sliding barn doors and they look pretty easy.
Gulp. Do I dare tear down this garage ? There will never be a driveway connecting it, but it could serve for weekend car duties. For the sake of an unlocked backyard with more free space, open air feel, and outdoor fireplace etc?
i think I may do this....is garage free living crazy? (It would have no impact on value in my town, btw, many houses don't have usable garages, and I don't plan on selling in at least 10 plus years)
thoughts?
Last edited by ThermonMermon; 07-26-2017 at 11:05 AM.
To give you an idea of the existing structures nearby, and how the removal would unlock the backyard. Kind of have an enclosed small side courtyard with the neighbors house which doesn't get much sun.
Your not selling right now or any time soon but I know when I was doing my house search I would not even look at houses that didn't have a garage. Even if you don't put a car in it you have it for storage. Where will you put your lawn mower and other things needed for outdoor care if you don't have a garage anymore?
And as someone who wants to build more garage space on my property I can't fathom getting rid of any just for more yard space.
It's a commuter town. Most people walk out their front door and hop on a jitney to a direct manhattan train. Heck, there are some 1-car households. We are at the moment. The town is historic (1880-1930 built). For those that do have garages, some dont fit modern cars. You rarely see people parking in their garages, as single garages are too narrow for most cars, and full size garages arent deep enough for many suvs and minivans. as far as storage, I allocated an area for a shed for a snow blower, ride on toys, etc. I dont mow my own lawn, nor have i ever seen anyone in my town mow their own lawn now that i think about it. So storage could be at a minimum. So the topic of garages is rarely a discussion for buyers. Plus homes in town generally go under contract in 48 hours, 10-25% OVER asking price, with 5-20 bids. I guess what I am trying to say is many shoppers in town arent picky over garages, and even if they were, there is enough depth to the market for it to be okay.
If i had more than 0.22 acres, trust me, i would not consider this. I just cant have best of both worlds (usable garage and open backyard), so i either need to choose one or the other, or have a compromised backyard, and a compromised garage (oversized shed).I spoke to two realtors, and they said this outcome would actually increase value...although, it does require an investment, so i would hope so.
As much as I love cars, i think i would enjoy a nice backyard on a regular basis, as opposed to having a weekend car. We collectively drive 4,000 miles a year, and our car does not move Monday through Thursday. so i dont know...I think I am just being practical about how badly I want to have more of an open-air backyard, as opposed to storing a garage queen.
Putting the garage discussion aside, what do you think about this layout?
Last edited by ThermonMermon; 07-26-2017 at 01:27 PM.
The layout I like a lot. There are two things I would add but they may not be of interest to you at all. A lot of places down south have outside mini fridges with their outdoor kitchens. With you being up north I am not sure if that is possible or not. If you cook outside a lot it becomes very handy to leave certain things outside in that. In the summer you can keep extra drinks for a party in it as well. Another if you are into sports at all would be a TV above the fireplace mantel.
I know you said putting the garage discussion asside but I really wonder with your previous ideas of building a garage with open doors could you build the kitcen coming off of that while still keeping a 1 car garage for a future weekend toy car?
Thats my other option....taking 6 feet of the 18 foot wide garage, and creating a covered porch, with a fireplace on the new dividing wall. Have some chairs under the porch. Then a small patio coming off of it for dining. But I dont know if i could get that plan through the historic district, and it could come with a 1-4k/year bump in taxes for "some" reason, and im not picking up any additional "open air".
It would cost more money, while not fully solving either problem.
Last edited by ThermonMermon; 07-26-2017 at 01:39 PM.
guess what i am not being clear about is that its not so much yard space. its the neighboring property and the layout. The backyard is corralled. It is more about an open-air space, and perspective. If I wrap around the rear french door, and remove the garage structure, I will have views out to an L shaped yard, with more direct sun.
Last edited by ThermonMermon; 07-26-2017 at 02:12 PM.
I have confirmation - cannot be less than 3 feet from the property line, which is effectively the width of the hedges. no permit required. Must be wood burning, not gas. i was surprised. other towns typically need 10 to 15 feet from all structures.
Last edited by ThermonMermon; 07-26-2017 at 04:32 PM.
In order of the drawings....not sure if I am getting too unique and specialized that I would these would hurt resale down the road.
A - Existing
B - demo garage. Corner fireplace and chimney and entertaining. Build shed in the right corner. Corner windows and doors off family room. Max play area, max open air, max entertaining and kid space. Biggest drawback, no midlife convertible or collector car down the road. Could always scratch an itch with a wrangler and keep it parked outside.
C - Big sliding barn door on half the garage. Stone ribbon driveway. Pea gravel patio intertwined with ribbons. Relocate condensers and have family room open up on the north end.
D - Centered barn doors for storage. Flagstone patio with one area of lounging and one for dining. Patio to i better incorporate party barn while boxing out green spaces. On the south face of garage either an integrated outdoor fireplace and chimney, or another set of sliding barn doors into the garage.
E - A variation of D with ribbon pavers. That could be done if I find myself using the garage more for car storage; or a safety net if future owners want to add back a driveway
I am leaning towards B or D. And if D maybe having a second set of doors instead of a chimney. The chimney would be quite costly and could deter buyers. Having no chimney has more flexibility in dining area for lounging area, or opening up "barn" for kids bday parties.
Last edited by ThermonMermon; 10-22-2017 at 10:26 AM.
01-25-2017, 04:32 PM
I found another carriage door vendor called Clineman ?sp? in PA, and hoping for better results.
