Generators
08-25-2007, 12:00 PM
#1
Administrator Alumnus
Thread Starter
Generators
I'm sure many of you who watched the news this week have seen all the flooding occuring in the midwest.
Fortunately, I didn't have any water damage and power never went out. I've taken the precaution of installing a battery backup last year, just in case...
However, my sister was without power for 25 hours (and she has underground utilities like I do) and she had water in the basement and lost all her food.
With my basement now finished, I'm wondering if I should just pony up and get a generator. But I know shit about them.
I would certainly want one that could run the sump pump. Also, the refridgerator and even the chest freezer in the basement. A few lights would be cool too.
So how do you figure out what you need in terms of size? Also, is it easy just to simply run extension cords out to the generator? I suppose I could do the electrical or hire someone to do it. I'm just trying to determine how far I need to go with this.
Ideas?
Fortunately, I didn't have any water damage and power never went out. I've taken the precaution of installing a battery backup last year, just in case...
However, my sister was without power for 25 hours (and she has underground utilities like I do) and she had water in the basement and lost all her food.
With my basement now finished, I'm wondering if I should just pony up and get a generator. But I know shit about them.
I would certainly want one that could run the sump pump. Also, the refridgerator and even the chest freezer in the basement. A few lights would be cool too.
So how do you figure out what you need in terms of size? Also, is it easy just to simply run extension cords out to the generator? I suppose I could do the electrical or hire someone to do it. I'm just trying to determine how far I need to go with this.
Ideas?
08-25-2007, 01:03 PM
#2
Senior Moderator
what most people tend to do is just get a gas one and run extension cords, but in the event that you forget to get one down to the sump pump, your screwed. I personally have the gas one with extension cords as I do not need a sump pump nor A/C if the power goes out, a fan and refridgerator do it. But if you want a good full system, they sell automatic propane generators that power the entire house, and to save propane, you can just shut of the breakers to the rooms you don't need power in. These ones kick in when it suddenly senses a loss of power and keeps it continually coming. These need to be wired somewhere into the house, but it is a good investment and will regain the $$ when you sell the house. just my thoughts.
08-25-2007, 01:33 PM
#3
Team Owner
IMHO If you are in areas where you lose power a lot or need to be able to run medical equipment I would say get one. Actually in this situation I would probably get one of those big ass whole house ones that can run on natural gas.
The cheapest Honda generator I see on their site is over $750. Even if you lost all of your food I doubt that you would lose over $750 worth.
The wildcard is your finished basement and sump pump. Only you know how often your pump runs and how long the battery backup on it is good for. You may want to figure out what kind of $ damage you would have if had 3-6 inches of water in your basement.
If you get one keep in mind that you probably won't run it much and it does have a small gasoline engine in it. So make sure your gasoline has stabl in it and be sure to run it a few times a year. Personally I would run it once a quarter for 15-30 minutes.
For what you want to be able to power running some extension cords should be fine, I wouldn't bother with running wires in the wall.
If your main concern is your pump maybe there are better cheaper solutions, such as an extra battery for it.
The cheapest Honda generator I see on their site is over $750. Even if you lost all of your food I doubt that you would lose over $750 worth.
The wildcard is your finished basement and sump pump. Only you know how often your pump runs and how long the battery backup on it is good for. You may want to figure out what kind of $ damage you would have if had 3-6 inches of water in your basement.
If you get one keep in mind that you probably won't run it much and it does have a small gasoline engine in it. So make sure your gasoline has stabl in it and be sure to run it a few times a year. Personally I would run it once a quarter for 15-30 minutes.
For what you want to be able to power running some extension cords should be fine, I wouldn't bother with running wires in the wall.
If your main concern is your pump maybe there are better cheaper solutions, such as an extra battery for it.
08-25-2007, 02:09 PM
#4
Get one that runs on propane. It doesn't go bad while sitting and the exhaust fumes are much less toxic.
If you can hook up to natural gas that's even better, the gas seldom goes off in a storm situation.
You can wire them directly into the house wiring; professional installation is the best for that.
If you can hook up to natural gas that's even better, the gas seldom goes off in a storm situation.
You can wire them directly into the house wiring; professional installation is the best for that.
08-27-2007, 10:42 AM
#5
Administrator Alumnus
Thread Starter
The main concern is the basement. After all the rain; and I had over 6 inches fall last week... The sump pit was filling every 50 seconds and the pump would cycle out the water. Not in a flood plain or anything... Just the way the drainage is... And I'm not alone with this.
There was a Briggs and Stratton gas generator at Home Depot for $700. It would run the sump, refrigerator and a few lights. My issue is the sump pump. If it's filling every 50 seconds, it wouldn't take much of an outage to completely drain the battery on the backup. Sure I could get another battery and have it on standby, I guess.
A $700 investment is less than the deductible on my homeowners policy. I dunno... It's like a life insurance policy. Likely never use it, but if you did, it's a damn good thing to have.
I'd likely just run extension cords... For my application, I'm not looking for anything more than a dry basement.
I don't want to make a heavy investment as the power has been great so far.... Knocks on wood.
There was a Briggs and Stratton gas generator at Home Depot for $700. It would run the sump, refrigerator and a few lights. My issue is the sump pump. If it's filling every 50 seconds, it wouldn't take much of an outage to completely drain the battery on the backup. Sure I could get another battery and have it on standby, I guess.
A $700 investment is less than the deductible on my homeowners policy. I dunno... It's like a life insurance policy. Likely never use it, but if you did, it's a damn good thing to have.
I'd likely just run extension cords... For my application, I'm not looking for anything more than a dry basement.
I don't want to make a heavy investment as the power has been great so far.... Knocks on wood.
08-27-2007, 05:29 PM
#6
Originally Posted by Scrib
A $700 investment is less than the deductible on my homeowners policy. I dunno... It's like a life insurance policy. Likely never use it, but if you did, it's a damn good thing to have.
.
.
11-16-2012, 01:56 PM
#7
Team Owner
Revising this old thread 
Hurricane Sandy taught me something about portable generators. It's very difficult to get gasoline in a true emergency but propane is not as difficult to get. Tank swaps at stores like Home Depot didn't have lines. I didn't hear anything on the radio about propane shortages. Propane also seems less dangerous to store and as far as I can tell doesn't "get old" like gasoline. Propane seems like a winner to me, thoughts?
Hurricane Sandy taught me something about portable generators. It's very difficult to get gasoline in a true emergency but propane is not as difficult to get. Tank swaps at stores like Home Depot didn't have lines. I didn't hear anything on the radio about propane shortages. Propane also seems less dangerous to store and as far as I can tell doesn't "get old" like gasoline. Propane seems like a winner to me, thoughts?
Last edited by doopstr; 11-16-2012 at 02:06 PM.
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11-16-2012, 02:04 PM
#8
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Good revival. Had a long talk with someone in the bus back a few weeks when Sandy hit.
His take is the portable propane ones are not as efficient but will run basic stuff, fridge, lamps, etc.
If you truly lose power frequently and have natural gas to the house, have a standby generator installed.
The one nice benefit to portable propane ones is if you don't use them often they don't gum up like gas ones.
However I did look at this one online since local Home Depot's don't carry it.
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...1#.UKab-5G9KK0
His take is the portable propane ones are not as efficient but will run basic stuff, fridge, lamps, etc.
If you truly lose power frequently and have natural gas to the house, have a standby generator installed.
The one nice benefit to portable propane ones is if you don't use them often they don't gum up like gas ones.
However I did look at this one online since local Home Depot's don't carry it.
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...1#.UKab-5G9KK0
11-16-2012, 04:17 PM
#9
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Thread Starter
My Dad recently invested in a natural gas generator from Generac. He has a small house, only 100amp service, and I believe he got a 12,000 watt unit. It can run all the essentials, tests itself every week, kicks on after 30 seconds of power loss, all automatic, etc.
I am contemplating one, just because... But they run a good $4K. Today I have a large gas generator. Primarily serves as a good boat anchor.
I am contemplating one, just because... But they run a good $4K. Today I have a large gas generator. Primarily serves as a good boat anchor.
11-16-2012, 05:20 PM
#10
all work and no play
natural gas or propane would likely be best, I would also suggest looking into diesel. Diesel is an oil, so it wont go bad like gasoline. When gas supplies are low, I would think that diesel might be easier to find (cant say since I wasnt there in Sandys wake) Also, you might be able to find a large older diesel welder that would work great as a generator, but at a fraction of the cost of a new unit.
11-16-2012, 06:35 PM
#11
Team Owner
I've seen kits available that can convert a gasoline generator to LP.
Here is a video from generatorsales.com. They sell generators with the kit installed. Can run on gasoline/LP/Nat Gas. Pretty cool. I never heard of that site so buyer beware.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O7cWYWAD4Q
Here is a video from generatorsales.com. They sell generators with the kit installed. Can run on gasoline/LP/Nat Gas. Pretty cool. I never heard of that site so buyer beware.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O7cWYWAD4Q
11-16-2012, 08:01 PM
#13
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I've seen kits available that can convert a gasoline generator to LP.
Here is a video from generatorsales.com. They sell generators with the kit installed. Can run on gasoline/LP/Nat Gas. Pretty cool. I never heard of that site so buyer beware.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O7cWYWAD4Q
Here is a video from generatorsales.com. They sell generators with the kit installed. Can run on gasoline/LP/Nat Gas. Pretty cool. I never heard of that site so buyer beware.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O7cWYWAD4Q
http://www.overstock.com/Home-Garden...9/product.html
Scrib yeah the unit your Dad got is a great idea if you have frequent outages but $4K on something that you might use once a year is a big decision.
11-16-2012, 08:27 PM
#14
Instructor
The problem with diesel is the same as with gas, the stations have to have electrical power in order for the pumps to work (unless you have a diesel storage tank on site). Natural gas/propane provides independence. My cousin on Long Island has a natural gas generator hard wired into his house electrical service. He never had a problem during Sandy. Power was out in his neighborhood for 10 days. He made a lot of new friends on his street. For his family the cost was worth it, like the life insurance analogy made above.
11-17-2012, 07:09 AM
#16
11-17-2012, 09:04 AM
#17
Stage 1 Audi S5
During the hurricanes in florida a few years ago my mom relied on her 20,000 watt gas generator to run the well and barn to keep the horses with water and such. She needed a 240 to run the well and many smaller generators can't do it so keep that in mind.
You can run cords but it becomes a pain or you can back feed your system but it is illegal in most places and can screw with the lines if you don't cut your house off from the grid. Your best bet is to get an LP full house back up and have a transfer box installed so when the power goes off, your generator kicks on and everything is running normal. Problem obviously is that the generator is expensive and the transfer box is as well but....
You can run cords but it becomes a pain or you can back feed your system but it is illegal in most places and can screw with the lines if you don't cut your house off from the grid. Your best bet is to get an LP full house back up and have a transfer box installed so when the power goes off, your generator kicks on and everything is running normal. Problem obviously is that the generator is expensive and the transfer box is as well but....
11-17-2012, 05:51 PM
#18
If you get a genset you need to get at minimum the following
1. Subpanel with all the circuits you want covered protected by breakers that automatically open the main breaker when you activate the subpanel breaker and open the subpanel breaker when you switch back to mains power.
2. External connector that goes from genset to Subpanel in basement (typically a cable that goes to a jack on the wall where the genset plugs in) This make it much easier to get the genset going as all you have to do is start it (you can leave it connected all the time).
Typical house has 120V 100 amp service plus 240V 40-50amp for heavy duty electric appliances such as Central Air, Stove, Dryer, etc Most home gensets have 240V.
Min KW in my opinion would be 12,000 (motors suck serious amperage when they first start up)
Generators should be tested at a minimum of once a month for 15 minutes under load.
1. Subpanel with all the circuits you want covered protected by breakers that automatically open the main breaker when you activate the subpanel breaker and open the subpanel breaker when you switch back to mains power.
2. External connector that goes from genset to Subpanel in basement (typically a cable that goes to a jack on the wall where the genset plugs in) This make it much easier to get the genset going as all you have to do is start it (you can leave it connected all the time).
Typical house has 120V 100 amp service plus 240V 40-50amp for heavy duty electric appliances such as Central Air, Stove, Dryer, etc Most home gensets have 240V.
Min KW in my opinion would be 12,000 (motors suck serious amperage when they first start up)
Generators should be tested at a minimum of once a month for 15 minutes under load.
11-20-2012, 11:50 AM
#19
Team Owner
Ordered the Generac LP3250 from Amazon. This is good enough for me. Run a fridge, space heater, some lights. I hope it just sits in a corner unused for 20 years.
11-20-2012, 12:25 PM
#20
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You can run a whole house with a 5200-watt continuous machine. Just don't be stupid. We can run the well pump, 5-6 fridges/freezers, TV's, computers, lights with that machine. If we're in an extended outage we just tap it directly into the panel on both legs and kill the mains. My parents were forced into getting a new panel from the storm at their house. Tree pulled all the old wiring/box right off the house. They now have a generator hookup right outside and there is a simple interlock lockout switch for the genset/mains. They have a bigger 8000/12000 generac gasoline unit.
You can get conversions for propane for the carbs on them. Good cheap investment IMO. Converting an engine with a carb to propane is not a big deal. You can throw yourself a 100gal tank outside the house and wheel out your generator when needed. That will last you several days if not more. They are nearly as efficient as gasoline and they burn cleaner on propane/ng.
When we build our house next year we haven't decided what we will get. Likely a gasoline model and convert it to propane. Unless I pick up a heavy duty diesel second hand and grab myself an old heating oil tank. As mentioned earlier, you can store the oil for a long period of time. Get a standard 275g oil tank and you're good for weeks on generator power.
You can get conversions for propane for the carbs on them. Good cheap investment IMO. Converting an engine with a carb to propane is not a big deal. You can throw yourself a 100gal tank outside the house and wheel out your generator when needed. That will last you several days if not more. They are nearly as efficient as gasoline and they burn cleaner on propane/ng.
When we build our house next year we haven't decided what we will get. Likely a gasoline model and convert it to propane. Unless I pick up a heavy duty diesel second hand and grab myself an old heating oil tank. As mentioned earlier, you can store the oil for a long period of time. Get a standard 275g oil tank and you're good for weeks on generator power.
11-26-2012, 09:55 AM
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Missed this. Good choice. My Dad picked up a B&S 5500 that will be for the family when someone needs it. I debated getting one but other than an outage last year (they replaced a lot of our development's infrastructure) we haven't had a single outage, even wage the rest of my town lost power during Sandy.
11-28-2012, 12:43 PM
#23
Team Owner
Not bad, free super saver delivery translated into 2 guys showing up in a truck and putting the box in my garage.
11-29-2012, 01:13 PM
#24
Team Owner
Ran it today for about 15 minutes. Quieter than I expected. Propane is nice, easy hookup, no nasty exhaust smell. Nice machine.
01-15-2013, 02:33 PM
#26
Team Owner
I like it. I ran it under load for about 30 minutes last weekend. I plan to run it under load a few times a year. I noticed in reviews that people sometimes complain about starting problems. I haven't had an issue starting mine. I've only tried to start it cold three times and it started on the 4th pull every time following the starting instructions. Turn on, hold prime for 2 seconds then 2 pulls choke on and 2 pulls choke off.
I recently read in the Q&A section on Generac's website that they plan to release a 5500W version later in the year.
I plan to install a transfer switch sometime this year so that I can plug it into my house.
I recently read in the Q&A section on Generac's website that they plan to release a 5500W version later in the year.
I plan to install a transfer switch sometime this year so that I can plug it into my house.
01-15-2013, 03:10 PM
#27
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I want to get a transfer switch whenever I get around to getting a new breaker box
01-15-2013, 04:41 PM
#28
I like it. I ran it under load for about 30 minutes last weekend. I plan to run it under load a few times a year. I noticed in reviews that people sometimes complain about starting problems. I haven't had an issue starting mine. I've only tried to start it cold three times and it started on the 4th pull every time following the starting instructions. Turn on, hold prime for 2 seconds then 2 pulls choke on and 2 pulls choke off.
I recently read in the Q&A section on Generac's website that they plan to release a 5500W version later in the year.
I plan to install a transfer switch sometime this year so that I can plug it into my house.
I recently read in the Q&A section on Generac's website that they plan to release a 5500W version later in the year.
I plan to install a transfer switch sometime this year so that I can plug it into my house.
01-15-2013, 10:39 PM
#29
Team Owner
In my amateur opinion, the only downsides to a bigger gen is they cost more, are physically larger, heavier, and use more fuel. Quality is probably the same unless you step up to a pro model. If you want more power, go for it, unless you know for a fact that you aren't going to pull near 3000w.
I have 3 20lb bottles, 2 in the shed and one on my grill. Reviews on the web say the 3250 will run around 9 hours on a single bottle. For a bigger model maybe keep 4 20lb or step up to 30lb bottles.
I have 3 20lb bottles, 2 in the shed and one on my grill. Reviews on the web say the 3250 will run around 9 hours on a single bottle. For a bigger model maybe keep 4 20lb or step up to 30lb bottles.
04-03-2013, 01:13 PM
#30
In my amateur opinion, the only downsides to a bigger gen is they cost more, are physically larger, heavier, and use more fuel. Quality is probably the same unless you step up to a pro model. If you want more power, go for it, unless you know for a fact that you aren't going to pull near 3000w.
I have 3 20lb bottles, 2 in the shed and one on my grill. Reviews on the web say the 3250 will run around 9 hours on a single bottle. For a bigger model maybe keep 4 20lb or step up to 30lb bottles.
I have 3 20lb bottles, 2 in the shed and one on my grill. Reviews on the web say the 3250 will run around 9 hours on a single bottle. For a bigger model maybe keep 4 20lb or step up to 30lb bottles.
doop - are you storing the unit outside?
04-03-2013, 01:40 PM
#31
Team Owner
I'm keeping mine in my outdoor shed which is good enough to protect it from rain/snow. If I think a big storm is coming I'll move it to my garage for temporary storage in case it's needed. Originally I planned to store it in my basement but it's too heavy for me to bring up the stairs by myself.
I read somewhere that the gen is harder to start in the winter if the LP tank is cold, don't know if that's really true or not.
Good luck with yours, hope you never need it.
I read somewhere that the gen is harder to start in the winter if the LP tank is cold, don't know if that's really true or not.
Good luck with yours, hope you never need it.
10-13-2013, 12:26 PM
#33
Team Owner
I just finished wiring in this 6 circuit transfer switch to my circuit box. It was pretty easy. The installation video they provide is excellent and I didn't even need to look at the manual
http://www.reliancecontrols.com/Prod....aspx?31406CRK
The only thing not included in the kit is some 10/3 romex to run to the inlet box.
Next week I will connect the inlet box to the transfer switch and I'll be ready to go.
http://www.reliancecontrols.com/Prod....aspx?31406CRK
The only thing not included in the kit is some 10/3 romex to run to the inlet box.
Next week I will connect the inlet box to the transfer switch and I'll be ready to go.
10-13-2013, 12:35 PM
#34
Thanks doopstr. I was just commenting to the wife that we need to hook one of these up two days ago(or at least buy one so we can run more than just the fridge on an extension cord).
10-20-2013, 12:30 PM
#35
Team Owner
I'm extremely happy that I had a successful load test today with my generator and transfer switch. I was able to power my furnace, refrigerator, computers/internet, TV, and strategic lighting. It was very satisfying to see the furnace fire and then turn on the blower. Hopefully no more "Sandy's" but I am now happy that I will no longer be in a situation where I have no power for a week, that sucked.
My "running" load with everything I need consumes about 1500w. It jumps to 2000w for a second while the furnace blower powers up. I didn't test my sump pump this time, I'll add that to my Spring load test. I'm not expecting any issue with it as it's not on the same "side" as the furnace.
My "running" load with everything I need consumes about 1500w. It jumps to 2000w for a second while the furnace blower powers up. I didn't test my sump pump this time, I'll add that to my Spring load test. I'm not expecting any issue with it as it's not on the same "side" as the furnace.
10-21-2013, 08:53 AM
#36
Not Registered
I have a Troy Bilt 6,200 watt (running) portable generator and I did not start if for 2 years and it lost it's outward current. It started up on the first pull, but no generating power. I did a little research and found out brush-less generators lose their magnetism and need to be "flashed". I've done the below steps and it worked perfectly.
Remember to start you generators and run some items off it a couple times a year to keep from losing it's magnetism.
"A brushless electric generator relies on residual magnetism in the rotor to start building voltage in the stator. Once that happens, a small current flows from the stator into a field winding to induce full output power. But sometimes a generator loses the residual magnetism and fails to start producing power. This can occur when the generator sits unused for an extended period or if the user shuts it down under load. Generator repair shops use a special tool to flash the field of a non-functioning generator, but you can do it yourself with tools you may already own."
Instructions
1. Start the generator. Check the circuit breakers. Reset them if they are tripped.
2. Insert the steel rod into the chuck of the corded drill. Tighten the chuck.
3. Insert the other end of the steel rod into the cordless drill. Tighten the chuck.
4. Plug the corded drill into the generator. Make sure both drills are set for forward (clockwise as viewed from the handle) rotation.
5. Hold both drills tightly. Press the trigger switch of the corded drill.
6. Press the trigger switch of the cordless drill, so that it spins the chuck of the corded drill. The corded drill acts as a small generator to feed current into the windings of the larger generator to magnetize the field and force it to start working. When this happens, the corded drill will start fighting against the cordless drill.
! Keep a tight grip and be ready to release the switches immediately. The drills could injure you if they twist out of your hands.
Remember to start you generators and run some items off it a couple times a year to keep from losing it's magnetism.
"A brushless electric generator relies on residual magnetism in the rotor to start building voltage in the stator. Once that happens, a small current flows from the stator into a field winding to induce full output power. But sometimes a generator loses the residual magnetism and fails to start producing power. This can occur when the generator sits unused for an extended period or if the user shuts it down under load. Generator repair shops use a special tool to flash the field of a non-functioning generator, but you can do it yourself with tools you may already own."
Instructions
1. Start the generator. Check the circuit breakers. Reset them if they are tripped.
2. Insert the steel rod into the chuck of the corded drill. Tighten the chuck.
3. Insert the other end of the steel rod into the cordless drill. Tighten the chuck.
4. Plug the corded drill into the generator. Make sure both drills are set for forward (clockwise as viewed from the handle) rotation.
5. Hold both drills tightly. Press the trigger switch of the corded drill.
6. Press the trigger switch of the cordless drill, so that it spins the chuck of the corded drill. The corded drill acts as a small generator to feed current into the windings of the larger generator to magnetize the field and force it to start working. When this happens, the corded drill will start fighting against the cordless drill.
! Keep a tight grip and be ready to release the switches immediately. The drills could injure you if they twist out of your hands.
01-27-2014, 12:51 PM
#37
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I've been thinking about a generator for a few months now and after a few brownouts the past week due to the cold its become front of mind.
My home is heated with propane. We have a 1,000 gallon tank buried in the back yard so ideally I would tap into that to fuel the generator. Obviously this is far more expensive than the $600 portable models but having the security of a standby generator is appealing. What if power goes out when we've not home? Away for several days? Anyone have a standby generator?
Looks like they start around $2,000 plus the install. But as many of you have said, $2,000 is easily spent in food spoilage and insurance deductibles.
My home is heated with propane. We have a 1,000 gallon tank buried in the back yard so ideally I would tap into that to fuel the generator. Obviously this is far more expensive than the $600 portable models but having the security of a standby generator is appealing. What if power goes out when we've not home? Away for several days? Anyone have a standby generator?
Looks like they start around $2,000 plus the install. But as many of you have said, $2,000 is easily spent in food spoilage and insurance deductibles.
12-03-2019, 09:31 AM
#38
Team Owner
Looking into a standby generator. We’ve lost power a few times, and once in a while it seems like our voltage sags because electric motors in ceiling fans that normally run silently will hum noticeably at times.
I am not sure a standby whole house unit will also address the brownouts. I would power it with natural gas and size it for my 200A service.
12-03-2019, 09:37 AM
#39
Sanest Florida Man
Tesla Powerwall maybe?
12-03-2019, 11:01 AM
#40
Team Owner