ccannizz11

I think it's time I tapped into the extensive knowledge of AZ members..... So while we were out looking for houses, we stumbled across these model homes that we loved, especially since we can make changes to customize the home to our liking. We're just picky enough where this is a better option than buying (a used home), especially around these parts. So we've decided to build.

Scrib had a good thread on this subject from a couple of years ago, and I was hoping that we could elaborate on it, in hopes that we have members here with more experience now, or if the people that helped out in that thread can provide any new knowledge/experience of their own.




Basically, I'm just looking for general help across the board, so here goes.....

1) Choosing a builder... We've narrowed down our choices to four builders based on how we like their designs, quality, warranties, construction practices (like how they do the foundation/roofs/insulation, etc.), reputation, flexibilty (how much can we customize), and standard options. These four are very similar in all those areas, so is there something I'm not thinking of? How do we choose the one builder that's going to work best for us?

2) How big is too big.... The house is just for me and my wife, and we're looking at plans anywhere between ~2000 and ~2800 square feet. I really like the space in the bigger houses, but I know we don't have near enough stuff to fill all of it, and we won't be buying new furniture to fill a second (formal) living room anytime soon. We're also debating between one floor or two. We don't need a second floor, but when it comes time to sell, a second floor might help. thoughts?

3) Garage.... many plans offer 3-car garages, and barring a winning lottery ticket, we won't be getting a 3rd car while we live in this house. And as I mentioned above, we don't have an over-abundance of stuff that needs to be stored. So is there any other reason to consider the plans with 3 car garages?

4) Miscellaneous stuff.... pros and cons of things like carpet vs. tile in the bathrooms, covered vs. uncovered patios, 8 ft vs. 10 ft ceilings in the master bathroom/closet, what to consider when choosing a lot to build on, etc. how do these things affect resale value?

5) Upgrading.... As far as upgrades go, is it best to go with luxury options now for higher returns later? Or should I go with the 'everything in moderation' philosophy?


Thanks everyone!

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Well, I've had two houses since 2002... both new construction, so hopefully I can help.

First off, keep in mind that the more upgrades you have, the better the resale value down the road. Also keep in mind that things can be done later and for less money... however, there are certain items you may want to do now. It really depends on your budget. When we built our first house, it was, well, our first house, so we were very budget conscious. We only upgrading things we knew we wouldn't do later, and things that we knew would get us more money for resale. Other stuff that we thought we could do without... we did without. Our second house was different b/c we had a bunch of money from the sale of our first, so we went all out and pretty much upgraded everything.

OK, now for your questions, in order:

1) Not sure I can help too much here. Both our homes were built in communities. For our new home we really put the emphasis on the floorplan we like, bang for the buck (price), location, and builders rep. For example, before going to contract in the house we just moved into earlier this year, we looked at about 15 different communities and about 30 different builders. As we looked around we knew which ones we like, which ones we didn't, etc. We also had a buyers agent which was huge b/c he knew the area (moved from NY to NC, so we didn't know the area that well), and he also knew which builders had good reps, and which did not. Even though we built in a community we still hired our own surveyor and inspector. The inspector had 4 inspections... pre-foundation, foundation, pre-drywall, and pre-closing. We also slipped him some extra money to come back out the actual day of our closing to make sure everything was wrapped up. Totally worth the money. Even if you're building in a community where they have certain plans they build 10 times... still worth it.

2) Can't really help here. Our last home was 2600 sq. ft. Our new, current home is 4500 square feet. It sounds big, but once we start having kids, it will fill up. Plus we needed a room and bathroom just for guests... so that was factored in as well. Depending on how many kids and/or pets you want should determine how much space you'll need.

3) We have a 3-car garage. When we bought the house I figured I'd never own more then two. Well, wouldn't you know that within 4 months of moving down I had 4!! We sold one and the third (my TL) is on the block, so we'll be down to two. Still nice to have the extra bay. Right now it still has about 35 boxes from the move, but once those are cleared it's a great spot for the lawnmower, the wifes gardening tools, a workbench/workshop area, spot for the mountain bikes, etc... all that can be used w/o taking any space away from the 2 cars parking. I recommend the 3-car if it's in your budget.

4) Everything you mentioned affects resale value. For the examples you posted, I'd go tile in the bathroom no question. Carpet gets yucky quick. Luckily in both houses we built, neither builder offered carpet in the bath... so we got tile by default... then just paid to upgrade the tile. As for the patio, I'm big on uncovered. Bugs really aren't that bad here... and I want to be outside. If I want to be covered, I'll go inside. Unless the bugs are really bad where you're looking, I'd keep it open. The higher the ceilings, the better. Our first house, as mentioned, was 2600 square feet, but felt soooo much bigger b/c the whole second floor was vaulted. Our new house has a 22 foot two story great room that opens up to the upstair hall. Makes the house feel even bigger then it is. I know that when we were looking for homes, we only wanted open floor plans... and increasing the ceiling height is a way to make a small room feel big... and that always helps. The lot we chose was a cul-de-sac lot. These usually fetch the most on a resale. Lots that do not have rear neighbors and are not on main roads in the development would be next. Lots on the main roads would be lowest. Our community doesn't have much traffic. Even the houses on the main roads don't see many cars... but enough where your kids can't play in the road. Our cul-de-sac on the otherhand has 4 houses on it including ours... so you could play all day in the road and never had to move.

5) As mentioned above, depends on your budget. When doing the everything in moderation thing.... consider this.... you're spending all this money on a brand new house.... do you really want to rip up stuff to put in new stuff yourself? For example, in our first house when we were watching our budget... we upgraded all of the tiles in the bathroom b/c we knew we would not be ripping up the bathroom of a new house anytime soon. We did NOT upgrade the countertops though... so we just went with laminate in the baths. Since countertops are easy to replace, we knew we could do that later with little mess and hassle. We ended up not even doing that, and it did not hurt our resale value one bit... so we saved money there. Things like hardwoods we did. In the new house, I had the bonus room wired with speakers for surroud sound. Cost $1200 total. Totally worth it in my book. Even if I repalce the speakers down the road, the whole infrastructure is in place and I don't need to rip open walls and snake cables. Even though that room still isn't setup yet, it was worth it in my book.

Hope some of that info helps. If you have any other questions, let me know either here or via PM

fdl

why would you ever want carpet in the bathroom? That seems like a really bad idea

TXXXX

1. pick out the foor plan you want and have them bid on it. Assuming all the builders are of the same quality, then the best bang for your money. Also, get all changes/modifications out of the way first, otherwise, some builder will take you for a ride. More changes=much more money. Most builder will offer some warranty, but get everything in writing. Go w/a cast in place foundation. of better yet, pay little extra for a ICF foundation if you are going to have a basement. Roof depend on the design, insulation will be depended on local code.

2. the size of house depended on your living situation and budget. Two people, I would not go bigger than 2700 ft personally. But it is a personal issue. and personally, I like 2 story house.
Check out this book:
http://books.google.com/books?ie=ISO...pCC_dwBUYukMdQ

3. I would go as many garage as possible (I have a 4 car garage, 24'x40'), there are always stuff you want to store. Or a workshop for your hobby. Plus, you can park in each end of the garage and not to worry about dinging each other's car. The middle one can be a buffer zone. Wire all the good stuff to the garage: ethernet, Cable, have your favorite brewsky in hands reach, etc.

4. No carpet bathrooms, tiles (but consider a under floor radiant heating for no cold feet). Big master bath--both shower and a soaking tub of some kind... Maybe ba separate toilet...
9' master ceiling would be more than plenty. Maybe a skylight in the master bath.. But built-in stuff will not get much of your investment back.

5. Be sure to spend little more in the kitchen, the one area is going to get a lot of attention when selling the house.


To save money, you can ask the builder to let you do the painting, it is considerable sum of money. Or other finishing task that you think you like to handle.

ccannizz11

thanks juniorbean, great info. So what exactly is a buyer's agent? Is it just a local realtor that knows the lots/communities etc.? how do they get compensated?


My parents' house had carpet in the master bath, after 12 years the carpet still looks fine. And I hate walking on cold tile in the morning. Plus, with the builders around here, it's standard to offer carpet in the bathrooms, and it's considered an upgrade to go with the ceramic tile. I prefer the look of tile, but the feel of carpet. I'll have to look into that heated tile stuff.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

No problem. A buyers agent is basically a real-estate agent... except they only represent the buyers. They do NOT list homes for sale... so they only help people buy houses, and there's no conflict that way. We went this route b/c I know that they are on my side... and our buyers agent was amazing. Since we lived so far away while the house was being built.. here was there several times a week taking pictures, keeping tabs on it, catching errors, etc. Honestly the move from NY to NC was smoother then our move 5 miles within the same town on our first house. That's how good he was. He got compensated by the builders. Each builder here has a pool that they pay commissions from. So he got his 2.5% from there... and the builder's guy got his as well.

FYI, I want to echo something that TXXX said.... if you are going to put your money anywhere... kitchen is key. You'll get most of your money back from that. Kitchen's and baths have the best returns.

Oh and don't worry about tiles in baths... that's all I've ever had... and with some nice area rugs and shower mats.... it's not that cold. Maybe I'm just used to it

I'll be back on tomorrow... so I'll check in here to see if you had any other questions. You can also PM me if you'd like. I'm happy to help. Besides our houses I helped my parents with the construction of their new home, and am also helping a friend with his (should be closing in 3 weeks).... so just let me know

ccannizz11

I didn't think there was anything other than cast in place. What is the alternative to that? Also what's ICF? I'm not getting a basement, just curious.

ccannizz11

As for the kitchen, I had always planned on going all out for that. It's probably the thing that we are pickiest about, and the main reason we're building instead of buying.

But is it one of those things that is cheaper to upgrade later? Or would it benefit me to do it now with the builder? For example, formica countertops are standard, but I prefer something closer to granite.... better now or later?

TXXXX

There are also, the cinder block foundation w/casted in floor.

Precasted foundation--they just lift that in and interlock them.

ICF--insulated concrete form, the form (styroform) will stay in place and have a insulated value of 18 to 25. W/a (a)monolithic concrete wall, (b)beam and post concrete wall, etc... different thickness of concrete wall of choice by varying the gap of the forms.

TXXXX

Better to do it now than later, less the removal cost, and you can negotiate a deal w/the builder or sub-contract the kitchen yourself.

ccannizz11

Oh, and when I asked about covered patio vs. uncovered patio.... I was referring to a patio where the roof extends out over the concrete patio, not one that is fully enclosed to keep bugs out. So it's open and outside, but covered on top.

Thanks for all the help guys!

soopa

Looks fine, I'm sure... but imagine the shit (literally) growing in it!

Urinary and fecal matter is said to travel anywhere from 12-15 feet when flushing... 12 years gives plenty of time for it go turn that carpet into a breeding ground for all sorts of funky bacteria.

I wouldn't be surprised if carpeted bathrooms are the source of avian bird flu virus!!

TXXXX

Build a covered patio in the first floor and a sun deck on the second story, maybe w/ a hot tub--private deck for the master suite.

iTimmy

I just recently decided against building a new home, I am just going to purchase a pre-existing home. I am too busy to devote the time required to getting it done right, kind of a bummer but I can find, more or less, what I want for less then I could build it and move right in with no trouble. The little things that need changing to meet my standards will cost less then the difference and I can do when ever I get to it. Unless your building a very custom home and have a very healthy budget its so much easier to purchase a pre-existing home. There is a nice development in this area($400k+ homes in it, which for this area is $130k higher then the average home price) and of 7 houses 5 have lawsuits against the developer, 1 is a friend of the developer and the last house has been lacking a resident for over year. It seems the houses are flooding all the time and floating, cracking foundations... just a shity situation for everyone involved. The benefit of an existing house is that the bugs are worked out, however, it is fun making it exactly the way you want it.

If your still looking for floor plans check http://www.dreamhomesource.com

If you don't want cold tile/hardwood install radiant floor heat in those rooms, simple solution. I personally HATE carpet, but if you MUST have it, the bathroom makes about as much sense as having it on your lawn.

Fibonacci

1. Choose a builder who has an established reputation for quality that you can verify with references.

2. Size is subjective, but if you plan to stay put, it's much better to build a house you'll grow into, not grow out of. As for Colonial vs Ranch style, it's a matter of preference. Older people prefer ranch style because the lack of stairs...younger folks prefer colonial because there is a separation between entertaining/public and sleeping/private areas.

3. 3 car garages are a relatively inexpensive way to add value.

4. One could go on and on regarding this question except for one. Carpet in bathroom a definite NO. Upgrade the quality of tile in bathrooms and you'll get your money back and then some.

5. Upgrades, again personal preference and depends on how long you'll stay put. If you plan on staying for a while..ie longer than 5 years -- pick the patterns and style you can live with - but always keep resale in mind.

Oh, and plan on spending 10% more than your budgeting - it's a given. Good luck

ccannizz11

Nah, the toilet is in a separate small tiled room with it's own door. Just the rest of the bathroom is carpeted.

Street Spirit

Agree! Not only do you have to worry about the things Soopa mentioned above, but also consider that it's a nice place for mold to form seeing as though the mist from the shower will rest in the carpet too. Definitely NOT hygienic to have carpet in an area with a towel and/or shower! Think of allergens too. Not good. Definitely go tile. I can almost guarantee that any future owner of your home (when you go to sell) will immediately see the carpet as an expense and want to rip it up.

EDIT: Sorry, just saw your reply above. Either way, I wouldn't do it. Surprised it's still offered. Seems very 70's and unhealthy.

soopa

dude, water + carpet == gross. no matter where it is.

shit, carpet == gross enough all on it's own.

most people these days move into a home and rip up the carpet to put down tile or hardwood... or even pergo at least.

nobody wants carpet, especially in a bathroom. keep it in the bedroom if anywhere at all.

ccannizz11

Thanks Pistonfan! Is there any objective central resource for references and whatnot? I did a search but didn't find much info on local builders. Do I just rely on the agents for this info?


You really think 10% over budget? We're looking at homes that start at the low 160's and planning on ending up around 180k after customizing and upgrades. You think I need to plan for closer to 200k??

Street Spirit

And aside from that, it'll really suck to clean! The bathroom would be an area with tons of potential stains too (eg: water, makeup, hair products, colognes, etc). Flooring will be MUCH easier to clean and maintain on an everyday basis, and especially longterm.

ccannizz11

Alright, enough about the bathroom. I'm going with tile. The only reason I even considered carpet is because it's their standard option. Just wondered if anybody had any good reasons not to upgrade in that area.

Any thoughts on the other stuff?

Mike 350Z

Might want to think about location of garage in relation to bedroom. I wouldn't want to be sleeping right above a garage door opener. Although it's a good way to monitor when your future kids roll home late at night

Plus if you're still there when/if you have kids of driving age, the 3 car garage will come in handy. Trust me it's a PITA to shuffle cars around everynight based on when everyone leaves the next day if you only have 2 'lanes.'

Scottman111

I'm an electrician among other things for a builder and make lots of money doing side jobs that people forget to do when they are building. Not sure which will apply to you, but I'll just throw some out there...

1. People ALWAYS forget to put outlets on their plant shelves and above their cabinets. A year later at Christmas their wife wants to put up some cute decorations that light up but they don't have anywhere to plug them in. I actually got a call the other day to add some (I give out my card to all the new home owners )

2. Go ahead and put cable and phone jacks in ALL your rooms (or at least the main rooms) My builder puts cable standard in the master and living room, and phones in all the beds and kitchen. I put a lot of these in, also.

3. Add a lot of outlets and lights in your garage (and basement if you end up getting one) They might cost a little more but it's worth it IMO.

4. I don't know if this is standard for whatever builder you choose, but I would suggest getting automatic garage door openers. Your probably thinking who doesn't but a lot of low budget people here don't...but then after about a month or two I'm back putting one in for way more than the builder charges

5. When I build my house(s) I'm gonna have a three-way in my master bedroom with a switch by my bed. I don't put many of these in but if your lazy like me think how nice it would be

6. Most people don't get ceiling fans in all the bedrooms, but that doesn't last very long, usually about a year after they move in they call me (esp. if they have kids)

That's usually the kind of stuff I add or hear people complaining about once their done and moved in. Good luck

soopa

fuck. good tips. i forgot to put outlets above my cabinets!!!

damnit. now i gotta go find my snake...

Scottman111

yeah that's usually the reaction I get from people. It gets worse when I give them the bill though :wink:

ccannizz11

Is this gratuitous innuendo masquerading as advice? Or am I just not undertanding what you're saying?


Thanks for your other suggestions, outlets was one of the things I was curious about... what's the standard, one outlet every 10 feet? Should I have more above the counter in the kitchen?

iTimmy

Instead of doing that you could get a high quality dimmer switch with wireless remote control - that's my plan. Leave the remote on the nightstand... but I agree its a good idea to have light control from bed, you never know when you could lose your hampster in bed and need a light to find him

Scottman111

I guess this is kind of a given but I forgot to add...any networking wires you need pulled do it before (If you do it yourself, wait until after they wire it though, your stuff will only be in the way and chances are it will be cut or damaged) Most Electricians will pull whatever wires you want added (speakers, security, low voltage stuff, etc.) if you bribe them a little. It's worth a try

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

This is great advise also. We did not do a lot of these things when our first house was built... so we learned from our mistakes and made sure that stuff like the plantself had an outlet (and a switched outlet at that), cable/phone in EVERY room, ceiling fan prewires in EVERY room, and so on.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Did this in our first house too. Threw the guy some cash and he pulled Cat5e throughout the house and terminated it in the closet. Of course 2 months after I moved in I went wireless... so I never even used the networking cables... but they were there as a resale tool

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

In our first house when we were watching the bottom line... the standard counter was formica, only upgrade option was Corian (which, through the builder, was ~$6k).

We didn't want Corian, we wanted granite. So the builder did not put in any countertops. While the house was being built we found a company we wanted to use for the granite. They were given access, templated the kitchen, and the day after we closed they installed the granite... which was fine b/c we didn't move in the day we closed anyway. Cost of the granite was around $3200 IIRC, so we saved almost half... and got top of the line granite installed. No removal, no mess, pretty flawless actually.

So, if you want granite, see if your builder can close without having a countertop (for us they could, but mounted the sink on plywood b/c they had to have an operational sink to get a CO). Then just have your own granite guy come in and coordinate it around your close date

Scottman111

I hope to have many many three ways in my bedroom before I get too old

I forget exactly what the code is for outlet spacing but I think it's every six feet. Don't quote me though. Usually I'll just go by my arms out stretched, and if there is weird corners or doors etc I'll just use common sense. My theory is it's always good to have more than less, but they will usually charge you extra for any added outlets/switches/lights.

The counter is a little different.. You'll have more plugs that will all be on GFCI's (whether you have actual GFCI's or a GFCI breaker) and will be have a bigger load capacity than say a bedroom. It's the same for bathroom sinks...I feel the same way about counter top plugs as normal plugs. Having more is nice but it'll cost ya. Just plan out what you think you'll have on the counter top before hand.

I've only added a few of these for people so I guess most people are happy. But the one's I did add I charged a LOT more because adding stuff in the kitchen is probably the biggest pain in the ass IMO.

Scottman111

@ the hampster... I thought the same but if it's anything like my TV remote it will be lost or broken in about a month :wink:

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Absolutely. In the first house we were actually $700 under budget and we put in about 30k in options... but like I've said... we REALLY watched the bottom line there. Even so, we still did stuff ourselves after closing like tiling the foyer, granite countertops in the kitchen, finished the basement (builder wanted $23k, we did it for $12k)... and so on... so even though we were under budget at closing, we spent all that money within a 1-6 months anyway (except for the basement where we waited about 18 months)... so just best to budget it.

New house we were about 8% overbudget. The new house came with more stuff, but since it was bigger, there was also more things to upgrade and more toys to be had, so we had about $60k in upgrades, but, unlike the first place, there is nothing in this house that we need to do ourselves.... so that's the difference.

But yeah, definitely plan on going 10% over. You're either going to spend the extra 10% through the builder, or a few months later on yourself upgrading things on your own... so it's best just to factor that in from the start....

fdl

a 3 car garage house for 160-180k? must be nice

Scottman111

I forgot to add that I always recommend them being switched. It takes one person to get a ladder and unplug them at night and it sure as hell ain't gonna be your wife

He probably did it dirt cheap too didn't he? Hell I was finishing up on a guys house one time and he came strolling in with a new spool of Cat5e in hand and I told him I'd pull it no charge if I could keep the rest of the wire that was leftover, and he agreed Took me about 15 minutes total..

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

My parents community has houses in the $150k-$300k range, and most of those homes have 3-car garages. The base price only includes a two car... but it's an option and many of them have it... and they probably spend $180k-$210k total if I had to guess....

fdl

I'd need a million dollars to get that in Toronto. Maybe 600 in the suburbs.

Where do you live?

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

hahaha, well no.. if it wasn't switched we'd put whatever it was on a timer

Yeah, it was pretty cheap. They had the cable... so he just ran it in the rooms I asked, and I showed him where I wanted it in each room and where I wanted it to terminate. He even ran a phone, cable and Cat5e to the basement for us withough us even asking (it was unfinished, so he just left it coiled up, and we installed it when we finished the basement).

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Charlotte, NC. There is construction everywhere down here. It's growing like crazy. In NY (where we came from) you would need about $600k to get that as well.

We got so much house down here for the money. We don't think we spent a lot, but what we spent down here is not the norm as most communities are in the $200k-$350k range... but more and more higher end communities are popping up, which is nice b/c this whole area will only have higher end homes.

As mentioned, my parents live in an average priced community, and those homes have a lot of stuff. You can get a 3200 square foot house with granite, hardwoods on the first floor, etc... for like $250k. My parents didn't do a 3rd garage, so not sure what it runs... but I'd have to guess anywhere from $8k-$13k depending on if that includes finished square footage above the garage, or if it's just a garage....