GunnmeTaLCURA04

Ohh by the way this is to run a pump for the sprinkler (water pump) 220V. sorry its so long, buts its the only way explain myself. I can try to draw it and scan it if someone who is willing to shine in needs it.

This is what I have done already.

I got 2 breakers (20a)
I got 3 wires 10 guage
-Red
-Black
-Green

I know that to run a 220v line you need 2 hot (+) and 1 ground (-).

But before it goes to the pump, I would like to have since I am in process already, an outlex box of 2 plugs for the side of the house.

So basically its like this.

I connected red to 1 braker and black to the other breaker (110, and 110) and green to my ground pole.

Then I ran the 2 wired through my pipes and then into the box were I want my 2 outlet plug.

The outlet plug has 4 screws on the side. 1 side says HOT other says WHITE. I asume HOT is positive(red or black in my case) and WHITE means negative(green).
Being that there are 4 screws, 2 are for inputing + and - , and the other 2 srews left are to add other outlet or switch (basically to bridge the connection for add ons)

Now that I have 1 + and 1 - into this 2 plug switch, i got the ground (green from switch and ran it to other box. I did the same with the positive. Mind you that I still got 1 positive not connected to anything just running straight to 2nd box.

So now I got 2 (+)'s and 1 (-). This should still act ready for a 220v device correct?

The thing is my water pimp has 3 cables comming out of it. 2 black and 1 red.
1 black has a #1, other black has #4, and red is just red.

We tried connecting this pump to a 110v by putting the #4, red, and (+) together and the green (-) to other black. Pump ran but spriklers are weak. So we think it needs more juice (220v) to run.

JLatimer

Ok... First off, to get 110 out of a 220 you need 4 wires, not 3. Green is not Neutral! Careful.

Your home service has 2 - 110 volt lines coming in that are opposed 180degrees so the total difference between those 2 lines is 220volts. So... Your 2 breakers need to be each be connected to different 110 feeds. You actually should get a single 220v breaker, it will be one breaker that takes up 2 slots with connected toggles.

So.

Your feed comes in Black and Red and White plus Ground

Black + Red = 220v
Black + White = 110v
Red + White = 110v

So your connection should be...
Black to one hot pole on the breaker, Red to the other hot pole.
White to the Neutral bar in your panel.
Green to Ground. (Neutral and Ground are connected in the panel, but are NOT the same thing - messed up Neutral's kill!)

Those 4 wires go to your outlet box. Connect one hot (black) to your hot connection for the outlet, Neutral (white) to the neutral. Green to Ground on the outlet.

Once you get this far, you do not need the neutral for the 220v. Just Red, Black and Green.

This is the confusing part and I would not go any further without someone who knows the pump. I would assume that the black #1 and the red are your hot, and #4 is your ground? But please assume I am wrong. Again, dont guess, unless you want to buy a new pump.

By connecting 2 breakers and using ground as your neutral what you have effectively done is created a circuit that needs 2 breakers to trip to interrupt power - very dangerous. Especially with a water pump. I would disconnect it all until you can talk to someone in the know... If you arent sure, use a voltmeter and measure the differences - I bet if you measure the difference between your red and black you will probably get a zero

Disclaimer... I am a DIY. Scottman111 is the electrican - he knows...

GunnmeTaLCURA04

Thank you. You are correct on everything you said. I finally had the guy who installed the pump to the original owners of this home. Luckily he is the handyman of the neighborhood and cuts our grass and we were able to get some time from his busy schedule.

So this is why I am agreeing with what you said. He said same thing.

With 1 minor difference.

He said to get 1 braker of 60A. It may or may not have 2 screws to put the red and black cables to. And it also might have 1. (if it has 1 then put both red and black into same screw, if it has 2 screws then use 1 for each)

Braker will always take up to slots in braker box. for 2 - 110's making 220 like you said.

Now this is the thing.. As you can see I got the red and black down. But the green is connected to my neutral/ground bar.

Thats it. No mention of a 4th.

So he said red and green to first box. Giving me 110 connection in the outlets.

Black which is positive also, goes straight to pump, and then get red from outlet box and bridge it to (light switch device being used to turn off/on pump).

Light switch has 2 screws, so basically it will have the red comming in and then out to pump.

He said that our pump requires 2 (+)'s and that its built to ground itself. (old type pump, pure iron cast and inside you can see where it grounds itself. (dont know about this, but he installed, so i guess he knows about this pump)

JLatimer

Cool.

It sounds like the setup you are running will work. The pump can ground itself through the water... The 2 -110s will power your outlets. Since your green is being used for a neutral, I would recommend GFCI outlets for safety since you will not have ground besides your neutral. This is code outdoors anyway.

60A!!! That is a big pump. And with 10ga wire, that sounds a little light for the current. Interesting...

I hope you didnt run the pump too long at 110v - undervoltage is bad for motors.

GunnmeTaLCURA04

No no, the pump is at most 25 feet away from braker box. I will try this set up when i get home. It was dark already when I came to post here.

Hey thanks for the help. I will let you know how things turn out.

99gixxer

As JLatimer mentioned - you can not put a 60A breaker and 10ga wire together - you are asking for a fire. Basically, the 10ga wire would melt long before the breaker trips...which, unless you really don't like your house, would be a bad thing.

For a 60A breaker - it looks like you'll need to run 6ga wires...

Disclaimer - I'm a DIYer and not an electrician. But from the sounds of things, you might be better off hiring one.

One other place to go for information is: forum.doityourself.com - Post under the electrical section and you should get some helpful information.

GunnmeTaLCURA04

Ok. I will find out in that forum. Also, Do you guys think it would be best if I get a 30A braker the thick ones that take up to slots?

If I do, this braker will have 2 srew holes correct? So it would be red in one, and black in other. But since its comming from same braker, will it act as 1? Is the braker linked inside, so its really 1 braker?

99gixxer

You really need to determine what the power requirements of the pump are. Once you know what the pump requires - you can just buy the breaker and the correctly sized wires for that breaker...

GunnmeTaLCURA04

Unfortunatly I am at work right now. But I know that the engraving on the pump said 115/220. I also read on pumps and most say, that they come factory built for 220v but can be converted to 110v.

The guy who originally installed the pump said its set for 220v and its always been 220v.

99gixxer

You need to know how many amps the pump will draw at max - that will determine what size breaker you need...whether its 120 or 240V is a different discussion.

JLatimer

I agree with 99. The more I think about what you are trying to do - it scares me - and your handyman doesnt sound like he is giving you the whole story.

In any case - find out amperage on the motor. And I would pull 3 wires plus ground. That is the safe thing to do. Especially outdoors I would think - even if the motor grounds itself, you will want to ground your outlets.

Scottman111

Sorry guys I'm not on here much towards the end of the week.

But anyways, I really don't like what your handyman is doing. From what I think I understand by reading your posts it sounds like he's taking a shortcut that I've heard of doing before, but I personally don't like it. Especially since neither of you are professionals.

And you guys are right about this, don't put a 60A breaker on with your 10ga wire. And yes you need to find out how many amps you will need to pull. You say it's an older pump so I have no idea what it could pull.

I really don't like how this sounds, so I will just recommend you get someone in there that knows what they are doing. I don't really feel comfortable giving you suggestions because without being there in person I can't be 100% sure what your dealing with, and I don't want to see anyone get hurt. I hope you understand.

Again, my advice is to get professional help. I wish I could help more, but I don't really consider this a DIY job.

MikeCLS6

You deffineatly should figure out the amperage of the pump. Just like everyone else said will determine your breaker and wire size. And stay safe when messing with the electrcity!!!!

GunnmeTaLCURA04

I understand your concern Scott. And thank you all. pump took 30A. 60A was WAYYY too much. Dont know why handyman told us this.

But we got it all running and its great. I will take pics if I can get camera this weekend.

but now i got an outlet box running 110 and then the pump at 220, wth an off and on switch.

Scottman111

I'm glad you got it running. Did you have someone else help you?

GunnmeTaLCURA04

No I didnt. I searched online, with your help on here and more advise from other local electricians. THANKS!!!!

Scottman111

Don't thank me, I didn't really do much. Thank JLatimer and 99gixxer. All of their advice was right on the money.

I'm glad your doing DIY projects but just make sure to be careful. And my advice is to always have someone else check your work, just to make sure.