Time For Sleeep

My bicep workout just seems really incomplete and floundering. I'm very flexible with what I can change up and would appreciate the help. Even w/ this I feel that I've made pretty decent gains and put on a good amount of size and strength.

My bicep days are on the same day as back routine.

1) Seated Preacher curls -
1st set, 10 reps @ 60lb.; 2nd set, 10 reps @ 80lb.; 3rd set, 10 reps @ 80lb.; each set I finish off w/ negative/holding. <-- all done with the EZ curl bar

2) Standing wide grip curls with EZ curl bar
3 sets, 10 reps @ 60 lbs. (wondering if straight bar would work better)

3) Reverse curls (<-- not sure about the name, but is the curls where your palms face the ground)
3 sets, 10 reps @ 40lbs.

^These workouts have been pretty much my staple; after this I'm not sure what to do. I'll just list off what I HAVE been doing, not necessarily all of these in the same day, but just some stuff I've been doing to bounce around and get a feel for what I like.

a) Standing dumbell curls; aim for 3 sets @ 10 reps each arm <-- start in hammer position and end curl by twisting wrist so palm faces face
b) Excercise where you take the cable machine and have your arms stretched out around head height and just curl. 3 sets @ 10 reps
c) Standing hammers (fast and high reps)
d) Seated hammers with preacher bench; 3 sets; 10 reps

^Like I said, I don't do ALL of those, usually it'll be like 2 out of the 4, rarely more as by then I'm pretty tired.

Any criticism and advice is welcome. thx.

Mockenrue

I'm by no means an expert, but I would try mixing it up more. Go real heavy and fewer reps some days, then go lighter and more reps another. Also, be sure not to do them too fast... momentum is a killer. Try a six count up and two count down.

Time For Sleeep

Just from some advice I received I will definitely be cutting the workouts down to 3 or 4 maximum and pyramid the weights up while lowering the reps each time. (instead of doing the 3x10).

FastAcura

There are so many things you can do with biceps.

Try


One handed preacher curls



Pull ups are great, even though you do use your back too. There are about 4 or 5 different ways you can do pull ups that will give you a really good pump.

Doc.Booty

If your back workout is solid you should be getting a lot of bicep work from it alone. YOu shouldn't need to do much isolation stuff. I get comments quite frequently about how big my arms are (i think they're small and weak, but whatever). I don't ever specifically target my arms. I know several people who are the same way.

Mockenrue

A friend of mine talked to one of those guys in the "strongest man" competitions, and he said that he almost always does back and legs. The same friend (who is very strong) does not isolate biceps.

jdeec

werd, If I do isolate my biceps it's usually only 1 or 2 exercises and only a couple sets of each.

Schizm

you might consider using the cables for part of your routine. Continual resistance is a beeyotch.

Time For Sleeep

i've pretty much changed it all around; from other comments on other boards and reading around and such, it seems I had way too many isolation workouts.


I've always done biceps on my back days but the only isolation I do now is:

-straight bar curl pyramid'ing weight up and reps down for three sets

-incline dumbell curls pyramid'ing weight up and reps down for three sets


-Every other workout I have now that hits biceps has back included in it (wide grip pull ups, seated close grip cable rows, on the ground barbell rows, etc.)

gavriil

You are over training your bicep muscles, like most people are

First let me say that these particular muscles are so misunderstood, underrated, overrated, everything negative Half of the people on any gym I go, design their workout around their biceps, LOL. No matter when or where I look at the free weights area, somone always does some type of bicep exercise. Very funny to me.

And I have proven that to myself (about the misunderstood part of these muscles). When I stopped targeting my bicep workout and saw it as a secondary workout my biceps grew, faster and went over plateaus.

The other gross misconception about the biceps is how much to train them. Your description above is classic. Mistake that is. You are doing WAY too much to a relatively small muscle, compared to the rest of the skelatal muscle God gave us (or whomever did, if you're a liberal).

Remember, recover is as important as stimulation.

Also, smaller muscles recover faster.

Also, trained muscles recover faster then less trained muscels or untrained muscles.

That's some fundamentals to base the arguments below.

As ABreece correctly said, you get most, if not all, of your bicep workout from your lats workout. Especially if you do, inverted wrist pulls (that's when you hold the bar to to pullups in a way that if you opened your palms, your palms would be facing you). I always do those, and I always do them as the second exercise (after the un-inverted, close grip, lats) and only do two, maybe three sets. My biceps are getting killed during that time, as long as you follow the principles of ultimate balance between intensity and overload explained in other threads.

The only other thing I do for biceps is three times a month I do barbell curls. Two warmup sets, two acclimation sets, two overload sets. That's it. You're done!

Again, overtraining a muscle will cause for that muscle to stop growing as fast, or completely and in extreme cases even get weaker and even smaller. About the last part of this last sentence, we now have proof that all skeletal muscle gets smaller during the first 2-3 days after an overload stimulation session due to inflamation and the complicated processes of recovery and healing within that muscle. So do NOT waste your time by curling all day long at the gym, lol.

Now let's forget basic science and talk common sense for a second.

What is this OBSESSION from the public about biceps is beyond me. I mean, it's not really beyond me, I can understand that big biceps have been associated with muscly men, but I mean this is just crazy people. The bicep is not even a secondary muscle from an importance perspective, just because of its size. It's a small muscle!

You want results, with respect to looking more muscly? Go and work out your legs and erectors first?

Guys, during the past 9 months I paid a lot less attention to small muscles and I saw ZERO difference with regard to these muscles getting smaller. I did see a difference with some compound exercises suffering a plateau or feeling weaker in ceratin areas related to volleyball. (exampels later) But nothing got smaller. On the other hand, I stop squatting for a month, right away I can tell my quads look smaller.

About compound exercises and small muscles. Benchpressing. The way I went over the latest plateau was by:

1. Adding twice a month a half-ROM benchpressing exercise session which allowed me to add more weight (total times of benchpressing a month went to 5, no more).
2. Doing basic rotator cuff exercises with low weights which added to stability by these small muscles.

gavriil

Going lighter and more reps does nothing to add muscle and/or strength. You either go heavy or stay home. That's the only two things that actually both help to add muscle (excluding nutritional points).

gavriil

I am thinking of dropping the barbell curls all together.

Actually in a way I am becaue I changed them to a more dynamic exercise. I use legs and traps to push the way up in a very explosive manner, which helps my for my sport. So lately, the bicep curls has become less of a bicep strength exercise than ever. Maybe I should completely drop it.

gavriil

Pyramids, not only do not help you if your goal is to add muscle growth, but in many cases hurt that goal.

vtec187

The biggest problem with your bicept routine is that you have a bicept routine. Today I did bench 4 x 5, pull ups 4 x 8, shoulder press 2 x 12, and barbell curl 3 x 10 and the pump on my upper arms was way better than any "bicept routine" i've ever done.

Nykor

That is far too much of a blanket statement IMO.

Given the topic of this thread: Biceps

4 X 10 at 40

or

1 X 8 at 35
1 X 6 at 40
1 X 4 at 55
1 X 2 at 60

My money would be on the pyramid for both strength and size.

Technique

Do spider curls instead of preacher for a month and you'll be pleased with the results. then go back to preacher for another month, vice versa...

Technique

that's cause you did pull ups and barbell curls... Both hit the biceps excellent

Time For Sleeep

thx all for the advice. def. from info here and other boards (bb.com) i was able to realize my routine was just way too much isolation for biceps.

My isolation work outs are now only 2 workouts (as mentioned above) with a majority of my bicep stimulation done via back workouts.

So far, it feels great, but I'll be more able to tell for sure in a few months

gavriil

Pyramids do not conform with the basic principle of ULTIMATE muscle growth. (And I cap the term ultimate because pyramids will add muscle, just not as much as non-pyramids will.) And that principle is the right combination of muscle intensity and muscle overload.

The secondary reason that pyramids are not recommended is due to something called muscle memory. In simplistic terms your muscles remember the last overload set of each exercise you do. SO it's best that set be an overload set and not the last set of a pyramid scheme which will not be the heaviest.

There are other reasons that are related to muscle fatigue which is contradictory to quick muscle recovery, etc, etc.

Time For Sleeep

Quick question gav, if pyramids aren't the most efficient way to add muscle (and strenght i'll assume); what would your suggestion be for a good set on the isolation exercises? thx.

Nykor

I have no idea what you are talking about with "ULTIMATE" muscle growth. That sounds like something out of muscle and fitness. As far as I'm concerned high weight, good form, and a low rep count is really all there is to it.

You mention muscle memory... you looked at what I laid out right? It does end with the heaviest set. While some people do stand behind the low to peak to low approach, that is not what I listed.

I'm not tracking on your muscle fatigue comment either. The point of a good pyramid is to warm up both muscle and joint to prepare for a heavier load. Starting with a lighter load helps to emphasize good form. Stepping up the weight ensures you can hit a muscle overload point.