Crucifer

You are all focusing on the looks of the 4G TL and the interior design and no one has pointed out the most obvious of all problems...


No MT apparently upon release =/ ...sigh.

You make an AWD version that could compete with the Audi/Evo/STI lineups and you do not give it a MT...did the good designers/engineers at Acura quit? Get fired? Die?....whose running the show there cause they need to be shown the door.


P.S. yes the 4G TL is hideous I think it could take the cake for ugliest car ever made.

rondog

iTrader: (1)

That is my only complaint, no MT. I will never buy another car for my personal use unless it has a MT, especially an Acura or Honda.

Crucifer

Yeah I just don't understand it...

SilverJ

yeah I covered that a few months back.
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...112&highlight=
I dont care if the TL looked like a 7 series BMW...no MT no sale.

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

It does suck that it is not offered at release but with all the info out there, there is an indication that within a year the MT will be available.

SGPL

Right... But which version of TL will have MT? Base or SH-AWD? Info anyone?

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

According to the chief engineer the SH-AWD will get 6MT. There's a 24-min long video.

Stash

It wasn't designed to compete with EVO or STI. Not even close.

Crucifer

Doesn't matter if it was designed too or not...its in the price range and now its class.

Sort of like the s4.

Rocketsfan

What's difficult to understand? MT is on the way, so one could always wait a year or two for it. If someone thinks the looks of the car are subpar, the only thing they can do is wait another 4-5 years for the next edition.

Colin

LOL I can guarantee there will not be people cross shopping these cars. Just because they're similarly priced does not mean they are competitors.

Crucifer

Ask yourself...

When you look at the 35,000-40,000 car range what cars are you looking at?

Evo X
STI
TL
BMW 3 Series
Audi A4/S4

....when it comes down to it...MT Evo X vs Auto TL?

It might just be what the Evo X sales need...all the TL owners switching instead of continuing with the TL series.

Or BMW's thanking the horrid designers.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

If I were to buy a $35-$40k entry-luxury sedan that can seat 5 people comfortably, with lots of technology gadgets to play with, don't care too much about being one of the fastest on the road, I would not be looking at Evo X or STi for sure.

What I mean is, there are people who look for certain type of cars. Here's an analogy, job search. If you have an engineering degree, and are looking for a job that will pay you $100k+ per year. Chances are you will look for engineering-related jobs. So even if being a car sales manager, or a doctor, or a lawyer will get you $100k/year, most likely you won't even consider those jobs. IMO, the same applies to choosing a car, or at least I think that's true for most people.

Colin

Are you being serious? The problem with your logic is that these cars share nothing except for a similar price range. The real competitors for the TL and TL SH-AWD are the Infiniti G and M, Lexus GS or ES, BMW 3s and 5s. Believe me, Evo and STi's are the last cars on Acura's mind when it comes the TL.

Silver_Surfer

There is just no logic here! Who really cross-shops the TL, ES, G35, IS with the STIs and EVOs of the world? Makes no sense!

Crucifer

Mainly because the Evo and STI are no longer just small rockets.

STI is a hatchback
EVO X is massive much wider and comes with a lot more interior crap than any evo before it. And much much faster bigger aftermarket and a lot of goodies and the EVO X no longer looks like a side of the road 19 year olds wet dream it took a step up to the older gents actually havent seen anyone young in one yet just older guys.

CL6

The market for a MT is very small. Better to concentrate on the AT first then release the MT later. Many cars do this like the new Dodge Charger. It's going to be okay.

Colin

Just remember, you called the interior "crap" not me.....

TLTrance

In all honesty, I think you have it all wrong. Considering that the push is towards higher end luxury, this will only lure even more AT drivers. Even with the 3G, around 90% of the sales were AT. Besides, I don't know why anyone keeps harping in this point -- MT IS CONFIRMED to come in 2010... Would you complain if this extra year allowed them to time to get the MT right and to fix all the random issues they might find in a year (such as the case from 2004 to 2005 where they found and FIXED so many issues)??

TLTrance

And if you think its the ugliest car ever made... Ever hear of the Aztek?

ostrich

I totally agree with Colin. I'm afraid you are really missing the point here. I see that Acura is moving the TL up to a class where luxury is slightly more of a priority over sportiness, and the demographics of the potential buyers will reflect a much more sophisticated and mature crowd than those who want to street race or mod their vehicles.

Now, while I do agree with you though, that a manual transmission would have been nice, if you look at the other real competitors of the 09 TL, such as the Lexus ES, GS, or the Infiniti M35, they all offer automatic transmission only. I am not supporting this but I am providing a realistic comparison, I am pointing out that this is not just an Acura idiosyncracy and this is probably what the vast majority of American luxury car buyers want in their vehicles.

Ac Man

I really don't see what the big fuss is over not having a MT at launch. Like most people have already posted MT account for a very small amount of sales, so if anything, Acura is doing what's right for them business wise. Secondly, everyone always talk about how they would never buy a first year model car because of the issues that come with a new product. So if that's the case, the MT coming out in 2010 is right on time!

awood

I always looked at the TL as a very nice, well powered, Accord. That's not really a knock. I've owned 2 TL's now ('02 TL-S and now '06).

I see Acura's problem as two-fold. First, they've been booted out of the mid-30's performance car market by several makers that have raised the bar beyond 300HP. Acura can't do this on a FWD platform. Their solution is to go to AWD, but that just raises their cost. With a the TL most likely pushing $40K now, they are up against some very nice competition at the top end.

The second problem is that they're now also pushing a $10K delta between a loaded Accord and a loaded TL.

Back in 2001, the '02 TL-S was by far the best performing "near luxury" sedan for for its price bracket. It had near luxury, power, and price. They now are trying to remove the "near" in "near luxury", but lost their power and price advantage.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

And yes, it is ugly as all heck, but to be honest, my '06 TL was such a rattle buggy, that the new TL would have to be just about perfect in order for me to go with Acura a third time.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Also the TSX kinda forces the TL to go higher up too. However, I still think it has a price advantage, perhaps the advantage isn't as great as before. Compared to the loaded ES350, the TL at least offers 30+ more hp, 20lbft more torque, and SH-AWD. And they are both priced the same (I just went to Lexus.com to price one out). So you basically trade some "prestige" for more power and AWD.

Like I mentioned in another thread, there's also a 10k delta between a loaded camry and a loaded ES350. The ES350 offers more features and prestige than the camry, but the TL offers not only more features, but AWD, and more power than the Accord.

In the end, both ES350 and TL have their own market. I'm not trying to say your opinion is wrong, since, there's no wrong opinion, and I'm sure there are people who have similar thoughts as yours. I'm just trying to bring another perspective into the discussion.

Edward'TLS

Couldn't have agreed more. That's exactly why I bought my 2G TL-S. I have yet to find a similar "bargain" with runaway-in-class power in the Acura lineup up to this date. I've been trying hard to look for another big Acura to replace mine because of the 2G tranny problem waiting to happen again. Maybe a face-lifted '11 TL-S, or '10 V8 RL ?

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

^do a 6MT swap

fsttyms1

are you serious?? The Evo, STI are NOT on the list. And most likely the people looking at cars in that price range as well. If your looking for a car in that size, category those 2 arent going to be on the list. BMW, Lexus, Infinity, Audi, Caddy.

bigmoetl1

i can drive a MT but would not want to in a luxury vehicle and not every day. i think the auto is ok but acura does need to step up to a 6 or 7speed auto if they really want to compete with the big boys

Stash

price range unequal to class

mickey3c

The tl is a premium class car and hardly what I would call a luxury vehicle... but you are right about the automatic. Acura came out with a 5 speed in late 00 and has not done anything in 8 years. Frankly, considering the TL automatic is still considered a weak link in their deisgn, I think they are scared to come out with a 6 speed let alone a 7.

They are also trying to save money. Sure it's a dumb long term move, but they hope all the popularity of the TL will result in good numbers on the 4g. The global platform is what they are trying to cash in on and why the powertains and designs are so much alike. We'll see what happens, but it looks as if they will be playing catch up in the years ahead.