RSLTSX09XMNAVWX

Interesting Rematch! And a Happy New Year to all of the TL Owners...

CLtotheTL32

iTrader: (3)

Just because they both have AWD this is a valid comparison? The A7 is almost double the price.

CLtotheTL32

iTrader: (3)

Okay maybe not double the price but base prices between the two models is almost $17k.

RSLTSX09XMNAVWX

I think Audi was the benchmark for AWD, they had the Quattro for a long time and had refined it, Till Acura beat them at their own game.. Acura continues to bring us great cars at a affordable price. Performance plus Cutting edge styling, 2009,10,11, that continues to turn heads on the road and just keeps on going, and going, and going!!

compewterbleu

Acura may never get the love it deserves, it is the quality brand everyone loves to hate. BMW, MB, and Audi are established brands and they're German. Americans are stuck with a certain mindset, it can change but it takes a long progression. Something like the gas crisis of the '70s directed us to view cars from the land of the rising sun as a viable option, then in the '80s the Yuppies engrained the image of a BMW, Dom Perignon champagne, and an American Express Gold Card in our heads with the impression this defined success and became the new status quo. Lexus jumped at the opportunity to be the next Mercedes Benz and had no bones about it doing it. Infiniti infused now with Renault's french flair is carving out a sector and Acura is staunch in standing it's ground of efficiency and value over glitz and raw horsepower.

I'm often amazed by the notion more HP and RWD are better when I witnessed more RWD 300+ cars in ditches or garaged when I lived in Nebraska, DC, NY, and even TX during snow or rainy seasons. Pushed around the corner vs being pulled....hmm...I wonder why horses were at the front of the stagecoach and not the back. AWD now there's a concept. Ad torque vectoring and then you've really got something. Just thoughts from a guy who just likes to think outside the box and challenge folks not to follow the masses.

Six Shifter

Acura still needs to come out with an RL/TL based coupe with SH-AWD to keep me from going German again ... and preferrably one with a stick.

jspagna1

I think it pretty much tells it all. Nice to know I picked the better car IMO.
Also, don't you guys think the A7 looks kinda like a Jag from the side rear?

g37guy01

During the last few years very bad snows; I've taken note of what kinds of vehicles I've seen in ditches and skidded out of control. TL SHAWD check. AWD BMWs check. Hondas check. Big SUV and F350s check. My Subaru...no.

The issue with tests like this is nobody drives around in a gravel pit in 1st gear. This does not translate into an advantage into real world driving, except for the knucklehead who wants to prove their SHAWD TL can take a 90 degree turn a 70 miles and hour and end up in a telephone pole.

Horses were at the front of the stagecoach but a 911s engine is in the rear...hmmm. A boxsters engine is in the middle.

RSLTSX09XMNAVWX

Yes, it does have that Jag look to it.... The new 5 series, AWD BMW, are nice cars, and I guess if I had $65K to spend, sure why not, but most of us Acura owners are probably practical folks who understand price value.. At 64 year old, I have driven a lot of cars in my lifetime, and my 2010 TL-SHAWD is by far the car that gives me the FUN factor every time I get behind the wheel... My wife drives a 2009 TSX, and it is FAR BELOW the TL in so many ways.. The other day I saw a car coming up behind me , and I was sure it was a TSX, but turned out to be a 2012 TL, SHAWD, but the rear looked just to plain for me... Acura definitely toned it down, but the basic rear design stayed the same, and gone was the QUAD exhaust system, something that sold me on my car..... But lets not get started with all of that again...

RSLTSX09XMNAVWX

My daughter lives up in Washington, and drives a Subaru!! But I think everyone in Washinton dives a Subaru!!

SeismicGuy

What the hell is the point of such idiotic comparisons--one car a naturally aspirated relatively affordable marque versus a "prestige" marque supercharged and almost $20K more. Those that are inclined to go with the prestige are never going to opt for an Acura over a BMW, Audi, or Mercedes. If Acura wants to attract those buyers they need to come out with some super halo model that is at similar price levels to the prestige models (maybe a couple of thousand less like the Lexus approach) but do everything better than the competition.

saturno_v

I would barely consider a 40K+ car "affordable"...I find this comparison actually fitting (comparable, size, power, both AWD)
ANd the tester would go with the TL......that 20K gap does not get you that much more....

Treblig

Never really warmed up to the look of the A7. Audi did a much better version of the theme on the A5 (which unfortunately isn't available in the US). I too am satisfied with my choice of the TL. I considered an Audi (A6), but with the price difference it was hard to justify the extra dollars and what came with it.

g37guy01

As another poster aptly put it any idiot with a sub-prime mortage can afford a $40K vehicle. I can understand why you find this comparison fitting.

However I disagree the $20K gets you much, much more. You don't care about what the extra $20K buys, but some people do.

arlingtonbadger

I agree that their lineup is limited - it caters to the 80% crowd and leaves those 20% of that crave Acura/Honda quality, attention to materials and detail, engineering and value looking at other brands to find model variation, e.g. coupe, convertible, as well as plentiful inventory for manual tranny's and V6's stuffed in TSX's. While I was at the dealer a few days ago, two people walked in - one wanting a V6 TSX and one wanting a manual TSX. The dealer, which is a rather large one in Chicago-land, had nothing in stock that met those requirements.

saturno_v

The comparison is fitting because the two cars are mechanically similar, similar power output and similar size.....

Tell me what you get more for 20K.....more performance?? hmm no......more goodies??? I guess the suspension adjustment but in order to get that you need more than 20K....a bit of a fancier navigator......few pieces of wood or alluminum trim.....in order to get the night vision (IMHO of highly doubtful usefulness) your price tag goes well over 70K.
Have you seen the standard seats of the A7?? Honda Civic grade in terms of padding and contouring...seriously....
You do not get Torque Vectoring with the A7.....and you do not even get brand prestige as Audi definitely lags in that department behind BMW.
20K get me a lot of extra toys...I have other interests beside cars......


Now, there are people with money that don't know to what to do with it...that is another point....I still find asinine to spend 60-70K on a 6 cylinder 300 HP sedan....

arlingtonbadger

I think the quad exhuasts is still made but reserved for the SH-AWD Advance TL.

The Tech, Advance, and SH-AWD Tech have the dual polygon exhuast.

akiko2012

...manual transmission...it's rare to find a luxury class car with all the refinements as well as the fun factor found in a manual transmission. even if i can afford an A7, i will always look to the MT.

g37guy01

The keyword is "you". "you" don't understand. Honestly, I don't know what the 20 grand buys, but there are people who are willing to spend their money on something "you" don't understand why.

Switching gears, one could compare a Mercury Marquis against a TL because of size and the Mercury would be the value winner.

jspagna1

Hey with the extra $20K you can go and buy a Subaru Legacy....(Starting at $19,995* MSRP)!

SeismicGuy

Affordable is relative. What I meant is that there are a tier of folks who can comfortably afford something like a Camry or Honda Accord or Maxima. Then they start shopping those cars and discover that once you load those up with a few niceties you are within close reach of the next tier (Lexus ES or Acura TL or Infiniti G). By close reach I mean another couple thousand dollars or a bit more. So when you are already looking at $30K+ for a decent sedan what does it really matter to up the monthly payment a few bucks and go for the next tier.

Pete2010

Who care about that A7 - have you seen the 2012 A6 - damn that is one sexy beast. Buy dear god why don't they make it available in 6MT... Freaking Audi...

saturno_v

Sorry but it is a totally far fetched comparison....I do not measure cars by the pound or by the size.....technical refinement and performance enter the equation.......other than that I totally agree....people can be free to spend their money anyway they want and if they find enough value in an A7 to justify the price tag, good for them...I would not do it.

I was born and raised in Europe and we owned in my family Audis and BMWs..my father was a die hard Mercedes fan.....we had no choice, up to 10 years ago or so, not many nice premium Japanese cars were imported......since I moved in Northamerica I bought only Japanese...for me they offer the right balance between price and value (not to mention reliability) that the Germans, on average, simply cannot match in my personal opinion.
I noticed that Mercedes recently went a bit the value route....

saturno_v

I still find the A7 the best looking of the Audis...all the others are plain boring to me, non emotional....

Between the A6 and the TL...my TL all the way....I like BMWs much more than Audis in general.

saturno_v

Funny that you mention the Maxima...it has always been considered more upscale than an Accord or a Camry (and much more sporty).
When I got my 2002 Maxima (6 Speed, Titanium Edition fully loaded) it offered tremendous value for the money (a throbbing ultra refined V6, 6 speed, HID lights, limited slip diff, state of the art navigation for that time, a fantastic BOSE stereo system, excellent build quality, it was assembled in Japan)
At that time I did cross shopped with a BMW 530 (E39 back then) and even loaded to the gilt you could not get some of the features of the Maxima.
I think the 5th generation was the best Maxima ever....at that time, for example, I did not think the Acura TL offered anything significant to justify spending the extra coin.

SeismicGuy

Definitely have no problems with the Maxima. Back in the 1980s one of the guys I worked with bought one of the first ones when they were marketed as the "four door sports car" or whatever. When we were shopping around for a sedan for my wife in 1990 the Maxima was a clear winner in terms of looks, performance, quality, and value. In the 10 years we owned it we NEVER had any significant problems. The only reason we replaced that with a TL in 2000 was that, at the time, Acura had positioned itself in the next tier position but had underpriced the second generation TL so that it was really about the same price as a well-equipped 2000 Maxima. I still think the current Maxima is pretty sharp looking and good performance/value.

g37guy01

The fact you cross-shopped a fwd cvt with a rwd row-your-own speaks volumes to me. The 530 would win every time, no cross-shopping necessary against a Maxima if I had the thought I might have wanted that particular BMW.

Which gets back to my thought, people buy cars and cross shop for their own reasons, even if it doesn't seem to have any rhyme or reason to a fly on the wall. The fact an EVO was compared to a Ferrari in some recent video will attest to the fact the any comparison can be made.

Shoot2Thrill

When you pay cash $20k it makes a difference. German reliability will cost much more when you consider all the costs. These car porn type comparisons have little to do with actual ownership.

saturno_v

What are you talking about?? I clearly stated that my 2002 Maxima was a manual 6 speed and the 530 was a manual 5 speed (no 6 speed available at that time).
My Maxima was significasntly more powerful, it had a real mechanical limited slip diff which was not even an option for the 530....no HID lights on the BMW either not to mention the joke of a stereo system.
The Max was significantly faster in acceleration too and it was a real blast to drive.....where I ever mention a CVT?? I refuse to own any slushbox, in any shape or form....

g37guy01

Okay, so I didn't remember when the CVT was introduced in the Maxima. My point still stands, the 530i in manual format was considered to be the best sports sedan of it's era and you could build them without hid or leather. While I appreciate the background information you provided about yourself, there is no way I would think a Maxima came out in top in form, function or beauty. The 530 was a work of art compared to the hideous looking Maxima.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

that dude should rewatch the video and he will kick himself for saying the Audi has more room....

his head is almost rubbing on the roof of the Audi....

TRIUMPHT

iTrader: (1)

Your handle states that you have a G37 . You do realize that if you look at your car the M and the Maxima the body differences aren't that much different minus the Gcoupe. I actually really like the coupe.

But i must say i am glad to see you in a thread bashing another car other than a 4th gen TL. I was starting to think you had a bias or something.

TRIUMPHT

iTrader: (1)

Infiniti Check

[youtube]bay2axoVt8g[/youtube]

saturno_v

The 5th gen Maxima was considered the best sport sedan for the money at that time, just read any literature in these years...beside the M5, in a 5 Series (E39) you did need a 540i to smoke a Max...a 50K vehicle.

When I did look at the 530, leatherette was standard (real leather in the Maxima) and HID was not available (standard in the Max)
Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder...I think the Maxima was beautiful and original (just a controversial rear end which I learned actually to like with time) and definitely more modern looking than the E39 (a gorgeous sedan on itw own, mind you) which it was already on its way out at that time...

More upscale interior decor, a somewhat smoother stick and the better back headrests in the BMW were not sufficient to overcome, in my decision, the lack of the sixth gear, the subpar stereo, the lack of HID, lack of limited slip diff, less power and more outdated navigator...all for more money!!!....not to mention the rock solid reliability of the Max (in 8 years I never change even a light bulb).

More than one Bimmer driver went fishtailing in the wet twisty backroads of western washington trying to stay at my tail (including my co-worker with its 530)....you should drive one and see it for yourself....a sub 6 second sport sedan in 2002....not many 4 door midsize sedan were faster at that time...

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

are we talking about sedans of yesteryear or sedans of 2012?

because the title is confusing.

saturno_v

No, trying to educate people that pontificate about cars that they do not know!!!

g37guy01

There may be some who don't know about the Maxima, but I did. It may have been 6 second as long as you didn't fly into a curve or turn the wheel, torque steer was an issue back then.

You're definition of a sports sedan seems to different than mine.

g37guy01

Jeez, that's what happens when you:

1. either have the wrong tires on the car as in performance tires or,
2. your driveway is icy.
3. the driver is an idjut.
4. all of the above

The October storm that dumped 20 inches in parts of the tri-state area, not an issue with the ATTESA AWD in snow mode. But I don't have performance tires.

jpd985

I love the look of the new A6 but I like the A5/S5 better in the looks department.

g37guy01

TL Check
[youtube]CuWRP0jIhuA[/youtube]