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While the current Civic is nice, it's still a Civic. I test drove a Civic EXL about 2 weeks ago and my opinion is while it's nice, it's still noisy and feels economy. There is definitely a market for a small compact sedan with a quiet and nice interior.
Agreed. I've driven the new Civic Si twice, and it has a relatively cheap feel. That's not a criticism given the low price, but I also think there should be a market for luxury/performance variant that could take advantage of the outstanding platform. An ILX with the Accord's 2.0T and SH-AWD, for example, should be an S3 killer for about $36k. (They could also make a 1.5T/8DCT FWD base model, but its price might be too close to the top trim Touring Civics.) I know sales in the US might not be huge, but such a model could do well in China and Europe, where smaller cars are more popular. Plus, because it would use the Civic's platform and lots of preexisting hardware, the marginal development costs shouldn't be insanely high.
I'd like to stay with Honda/Acura, but the TLX and Accord are just too big, and the Civic Si, while a great driver's car, is too bare bones. Hopefully, Honda will follow through on its statement that other Civic Type R variants are coming, including a more "GT" version. That might do the trick -- but so would a great ILX.
Agreed. I've driven the new Civic Si twice, and it has a relatively cheap feel. That's not a criticism given the low price, but I also think there should be a market for luxury/performance variant that could take advantage of the outstanding platform. An ILX with the Accord's 2.0T and SH-AWD, for example, should be an S3 killer for about $36k. (They could also make a 1.5T/8DCT FWD base model, but its price might be too close to the top trim Touring Civics.) I know sales in the US might not be huge, but such a model could do well in China and Europe, where smaller cars are more popular. Plus, because it would use the Civic's platform and lots of preexisting hardware, the marginal development costs shouldn't be insanely high.
I'd like to stay with Honda/Acura, but the TLX and Accord are just too big, and the Civic Si, while a great driver's car, is too bare bones. Hopefully, Honda will follow through on its statement that other Civic Type R variants are coming, including a more "GT" version. That might do the trick -- but so would a great ILX.
There is a market for small cars but I don't believe there is a market for a very small luxury car.
You do know that the TLX-L is a Chinese market long wheelbase car. They sell a lot of large cars in China. BUICK sells 80% of its cars in China. Audi sells more cars than BMW & MB combined, the Q5 series in China is their biggest seller in the world. MB's E-class sedan sales doubled in China, thanks to strong demand for the long-wheelbase version.
I think in the "luxury" car market the Chinese want big cars.
There is a market for small cars but I don't believe there is a market for a very small luxury car.
You do know that the TLX-L is a Chinese market long wheelbase car. They sell a lot of large cars in China. BUICK sells 80% of its cars in China. Audi sells more cars than BMW & MB combined, the Q5 series in China is their biggest seller in the world. MB's E-class sedan sales doubled in China, thanks to strong demand for the long-wheelbase version.
I think in the "luxury" car market the Chinese want big cars.
Yes, I'm aware of that trend, but Acura could offer a longer wheelbase ILX in China, as Cadillac has done with the ATS and BMW with the 3 Series, both of which are smaller than the TLX. If those have done well in China, there could be a market for an ILX.
Yes, I'm aware of that trend, but Acura could offer a longer wheelbase ILX in China, as Cadillac has done with the ATS and BMW with the 3 Series, both of which are smaller than the TLX. If those have done well in China, there could be a market for an ILX.
They no longer sell the ILX in China, that thing is dead. CDX was intended to be it's direct replacement and it is by far Acura's best selling model in China.
ILX to grow into 3 Series/A4/C Class size, and the TLX to grow a few inches into 5 Series/A6/E Class size? Frankly, I'm rather surprised that Acura is bring back the ILX for another gen. If they don't want another stillborn product, this thing better deliver. CTR bones with SH-AWD is a good start.
I was assuming this "new" ILX was just a grill refresh like the pic of all of the ASpec's from the auto show. Is this new ILX supposed to be a FMC update?
I was assuming this "new" ILX was just a grill refresh like the pic of all of the ASpec's from the auto show. Is this new ILX supposed to be a FMC update?
It should be a FMC. The current ILX already received a MMC.
ILX to grow into 3 Series/A4/C Class size, and the TLX to grow a few inches into 5 Series/A6/E Class size? Frankly, I'm rather surprised that Acura is bring back the ILX for another gen. If they don't want another stillborn product, this thing better deliver. CTR bones with SH-AWD is a good start.
That would be a great move. Take the ILX up a notch in size grow the TLX a tad and then make the RLX a 7 Series fighter.
That would be a great move. Take the ILX up a notch in size grow the TLX a tad and then make the RLX a 7 Series fighter.
Really don't see a $90,000 base RLX in the cards. The current RLX a 5 Series fighter is running 1,300 a year to 40,000 a year. They would need to ramp up to 9,000 cars a year to equal the 7 series. The best lower priced shot so far at the 7 is the Lexus LS series at about 4,000 cars.
The heavy hitter in big luxury cars is the MB S Class with about 16,000 cars.
Think Acura should clean up its act & finally setting on what was a big winner for them. A mid priced car that could run with & out feature the 3/4 series with a lower price. The old saw "best bang for the buck".
Their attempt to go head to head with the Europeans with the 4G was a disaster of biblical proportions where the lost 50% of their customers in a single year. Eight years down the road & they have still not recovered the 50% they lost.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 07-19-2018 at 12:23 PM.
Really don't see a $90,000 base RLX in the cards. The current RLX a 5 Series fighter is running 1,300 a year to 40,000 a year. They would need to ramp up to 9,000 cars a year to equal the 7 series. The best lower priced shot so far at the 7 is the Lexus LS series at about 4,000 cars.
The heavy hitter in big luxury cars is the MB S Class with about 16,000 cars.
Think Acura should clean up its act & finally setting on what was a big winner for them. A mid priced car that could run with & out feature the 3/4 series with a lower price. The old saw "best bang for the buck".
Their attempt to go head to head with the Europeans with the 4G was a disaster of biblical proportions where the lost 50% of their customers in a single year. Eight years down the road & they have still not recovered the 50% they lost.
I still maintain the only reason that happened was because the majority of people couldn't stand the look of the 4G. It was hideous. Had they created another attractive design, like the 3G, they'd have kept that dough rolling in.
Well that, and the 4G sucked. It was heavy. It's brakes cannot be pushed. It's engine had grown to 3.7L, yet barely hit 300hp, and that was only for the top end model. All others kept the 3.5L/280hp, which wasn't exactly keeping up with the Jones' when BMW decided to go turbo, as well as everyone else.
Simply put, the 4G lost everything that the 3G had going for it. There wasn't even a sport package available anymore.
I still maintain the only reason that happened was because the majority of people couldn't stand the look of the 4G. It was hideous. Had they created another attractive design, like the 3G, they'd have kept that dough rolling in.
Well that, and the 4G sucked. It was heavy. It's brakes cannot be pushed. It's engine had grown to 3.7L, yet barely hit 300hp, and that was only for the top end model. All others kept the 3.5L/280hp, which wasn't exactly keeping up with the Jones' when BMW decided to go turbo, as well as everyone else.
Simply put, the 4G lost everything that the 3G had going for it. There wasn't even a sport package available anymore.
Additionally they raised the price to be more inline with the Europeans.
Yes, but had the entire package been worthy of the price increase, I think it still would've sold well. But Acura failed on many fronts and ended up solely blaming it on the price increase. I'm sure the price increase pushed some customers away, but 50% of them? I doubt it.
Let's face it- it was heavy, it was ugly, and it's engine, while tried tested and true, wasn't wowing anyone, especially when the competition left the J series behind in the dust, as far as performance goes.
Part of why BMWs or MBs or Audis sell so well is because of their brand cache. Acura had that going for them with the 3G. At least it was a strong start and they couldve continued that in 2009, but Acura threw it all out the window with the 4G. Too bad, really.
I still maintain the only reason that happened was because the majority of people couldn't stand the look of the 4G. It was hideous. Had they created another attractive design, like the 3G, they'd have kept that dough rolling in.
Well that, and the 4G sucked. It was heavy. It's brakes cannot be pushed. It's engine had grown to 3.7L, yet barely hit 300hp, and that was only for the top end model. All others kept the 3.5L/280hp, which wasn't exactly keeping up with the Jones' when BMW decided to go turbo, as well as everyone else.
Simply put, the 4G lost everything that the 3G had going for it. There wasn't even a sport package available anymore.
The 4G hurt, it hit at a bad time, economy was sucking, the competition from all sides was heating up and then they dropped that turd on the market. The beak and ahead of its time Pontiac Aztek styling just turned people off when you had so many goo alternatives. Even die hard acura fans like myslef left for 6 years. I went Infiniti and Audi before reluctantly returning, many others just left never to return.
The 3G was losing steam in last year or two but they really went off the rails with the 4G. Honda does not learn from their mistakes. That beak was apsolutely hated by the press and buying public. It took them almost a decade to get rid of it. So, what do they do next, make the same mistake with the new Accord. Big, bloated GMC Malibu inspired styling topoed off with a hideous beak version 2.0.
The 3G was losing steam in last year or two but they really went off the rails with the 4G. Honda does not learn from their mistakes. That beak was apsolutely hated by the press and buying public. It took them almost a decade to get rid of it. So, what do they do next, make the same mistake with the new Accord. Big, bloated GMC Malibu inspired styling topoed off with a hideous beak version 2.0.
You have to wonder what they are thinking for the new TLX. Based on RDX I assume some mildly bolder styling and while I wish it would grow a tad I suspect it will be roughly same size. While I don't love the new Accord I don;t find it hideous. I think trading beaks for buck tooth look was not a wise move and they assumed everyone wants the CLS A7 coupe looking sedan look which I for one have never been a fan of. The ILX has always been a miss, under sized, under powered regardless of price. It never looked luxurious at all. It looked too much like a Civic.
Cant believe theyre doing another MMC in its 7th year of production in a compact car that typically has a very short lifespan. Even the MDX gets an FMC every 6 years.
Honda has the same kind of website for the 2019 HRV, and it's basically the same exact car as the 2018 with some slight styling changes and CarPlay. https://automobiles.honda.com/future-cars#hr-v
Cant believe theyre doing another MMC in its 7th year of production in a compact car that typically has a very short lifespan. Even the MDX gets an FMC every 6 years.
I'm not surprised. The ILX hasn't sold well, it hasn't been reviewed well, and Consumer Reports found that the car buyers regretted buying the most was (you guessed it) the ILX. I'm not being hyperbolic when I say I would rather have a Civic Touring for the same price as a fully loaded ILX. The materials in the ILX are shockingly poor for a "premium" car, and it just plain feels cheap. Can't fault Acura from being hesitant about investing more money into a new generation of this car given how much equity the ILX nameplate has already lost.
The latest words out there are new grille, new dashboard, same powertrain for the upcoming MMC.
I wonder if this is Acura testing the waters. Give it a new precision cockpit interior and jazz up the outside with a nice A-Spec option, and see what kind of demand it generates. If sales are sufficient, maybe there will be a next gen ILX. Problem is, there's nothing luxurious about the ILX, so they'll need to upgrade it quite a bit if the want to differentiate it from the Civic.
Cant believe theyre doing another MMC in its 7th year of production in a compact car that typically has a very short lifespan. Even the MDX gets an FMC every 6 years.
Just means limited investment in the product at this point.
Where do they plan on building this mystery car? Alliston and Indiana have converted to the new Civic. They cant just swing a batch of totally different cars through the weld and paint shops and down the assembly line among the current Civics? Those patent drawings are dated June 2017, so Im sure we would have seen a mule or something by now.
Where do they plan on building this mystery car? Alliston and Indiana have converted to the new Civic. They cant just swing a batch of totally different cars through the weld and paint shops and down the assembly line among the current Civics? Those patent drawings are dated June 2017, so Im sure we would have seen a mule or something by now.
Honda probably has the ability do that (produce the ILX with other models). Since right now it is produced alongside the TLX and Accord in Marysville.
Where do they plan on building this mystery car? Alliston and Indiana have converted to the new Civic. They cant just swing a batch of totally different cars through the weld and paint shops and down the assembly line among the current Civics? Those patent drawings are dated June 2017, so Im sure we would have seen a mule or something by now.
Why would they switch lines? It's just some minor component changes; the platform stays the same.
I think this has ALWAYS been the case for Honda/Acura.
always eating into each others sales.
probably has to do with acura not distancing themselves far enough away from honda
Yeah the ILX reminds me when Cadillac made the Cimmaron back in the 80s. It wasn't viewed as a real Caddilac. Far removed from the luxury perception Caddilac always wanted to portray. The ILX is underpowered and uninspiring looking. You can get a Civic Touring with all the bells and whistles. It also looks better. Honda and Acura canabilize sometimes.
It actually makes sense building next gen off the Civic platform. Stick that new infotainment, upgrade materials and call it a day. Sedans are not selling so investing in a separate platform will never pay off.
Ooof...IMO, no way. While I agree the ILX needs the new exterior (and interior) design language we're seeing in the new RDX, the current model is still far better looking than the new Civic.
The front-end on the new Civic is about the only thing that looks good. The side-profile and that rear end are hideous...again, IMO. To me it still looks like it came from the very roots that Hachigo coined and stated himself was a problem they needed to get rid of...."designed by committee".
Thanks for sharing. A few observation:
1. Front looks sharper than TLX
2. Only outside has changed.
3. Nothing major for inside, except seats
4. Rear of the car is okay
I highly doubt if it will make any difference in sales. But I guess Acura is focusing on RDX and MDX for now. And they will bring the CDX soon Acura sedans are weak and we all have to admit it.
How do you know about the CDX coming? I haven’t heard anything about it. I wouldn’t be surprised though, with the way the market is trending. It would fit perfectly in the Acura line up as an ILX successor.
How do you know about the CDX coming? I haven’t heard anything about it. I wouldn’t be surprised though, with the way the market is trending. It would fit perfectly in the Acura line up as an ILX successor.
Based on market trend and Acura trade marked the name CDX back in Jan if I am not mistaken.
07-17-2018, 01:53 PM
