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How-To Bypass The AIS (Stop/Start) Feature

 
Old 02-13-2019, 03:49 PM
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Lightbulb How-To Bypass The AIS (Stop/Start) Feature

I am trying to bypass the 2018 TLX V6 AIS (Stop/Start) feature and so far I found by removing the switch it has a 4 pin connector. 1 wire is constant 12V and another is ground and the last 2 show nothing even when pressed so I assume they are Can Bus wires?
I tried to leave it unplugged and that didn't do anything, then I tried to tape the button in and that won't work either and if I put a jumper across those 2 bus wires, I'm, pretty sure that won't do squat besides short the CanBus line.
The switch housing looks to be a controller of sorts as it is bulky for a switch of its use. I found that if you open the hood, driver door and start the car and then close the hood and door it puts it is test mode and it won't engage no matter what for the duration until you shut the car off. MY 2018 Jaguar was easy as there was a plug in the trunk we pulled and it worked very easy and no side effects or DTC's.
There must be a way to trick the system if we can't defeat it as they do with the Jeeps where there are 2 wires on the battery that sense the draw and if you unplug 1 of them it will never engage again since it cant sense the draw. I see we have a 2 wire connector on the battery negative and wonder if that is similar to the Jeeps sensing wire for AIS?

I have read about AIS on many forums and how everyone defeated it on other makes but it seems that the TLX is done via CanBus so we need another method of approach. Once I find a trigger wire that disables it, I bet I can add a relay timer that will work automatically each time the car is started that will turn this feature off with no input by the user.
There are so many times that I forget to make the AIS OFF button part of my startup routine and just need to bypass it automatically somehow. The hood pin switch is 1 of the ways that many people are doing this but it doesn't work that way for us especially for those with OEM remote Start.

Anyone have some discussion for this or input on other ways to defeat this or create a load so this won't engage without user input every time you start the car? Example, some say to leave the rear defroster on as it draws load where it won't engage the AIS but that is false.
I will keep looking for the sensing wires that trigger this to see if I can interrupt or simply unplug it like other vehicles or maybe find it in a hidden menu or a diag mode to disable it.
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Old 02-13-2019, 07:12 PM
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Hi Temp. Are you familiar with VCMuzzler? That guy (verbatim) figured out that the PCM tied VCM activation to engine coolant temp. Adding a resistor to that wire tricks the PCM into thinking the engine is not warmed up, therefore, never activates VCM. I ask because I wonder if there is a similar trigger for AIS. It seems to me like my car won't activate AIS when the engine is cold, i.e., when the coolant temp needle is still below the gauge. That would make sense, because Acura should know that you don't really want a cold engine with a cold block and cold fluids stopping/starting repeatedly, presumably right after a cold battery just cold cranked the started. If Acura does use engine coolant temp as a trigger for both VCM and AIS (which is how I would have designed it), then the temp threshold setting is different, because I have a VCMuzzler and my AIS still works. It just seems like something is telling our cars not to idle stop first thing after a cold start. Maybe there is a timer internal to the PCM/ECM/ECU that accounts for time the engine needs to warm-up? That would be silly since they have an actual sensor that they could read/confirm that exact data an measure against a threshold.

I support your mission and hope you figure out a workaround/solution. I'll buy it if you do. I fundamentally disagree with stopping/starting an engine repeatedly every day, every year, beating up the starter, to save a little gas. I also fundamentally disagree with the philosophy to save gas by disabling half an engine, hence, the reason I muzzled. I would get in the habit of disabling AIS with the button, but I got really sick of the amber light on the dash board staring at me. I've found that I subconsciously feather the brake pedal at intersections and am disappointed in myself whenever I pushed hard enough to idle stop.
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Old 02-14-2019, 11:02 AM
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I am slightly familiar with it and am wondering when that is installed does that disable the AIS as a byproduct possibly? I read in our manual that for AIS to trigger there is a long list of variables like Coolant temp, battery voltage, hood/door, and seat belt closed/open, etc, etc.
My goal is to fool/trick 1 of these conditions that is automatic and needs no input by the user so the AIS just simply doesn't kick in anymore. I wonder if the sprint booster disables the AIS as I think the manual said that AIS doesn't engage when the TLX is in Sport+ mode? I can't drive in + all day long but if the booster mimics this with 1 of its many settings then that is a good fix with added benefits.
I am going to check what that 2 pin connector does on our negative terminal of the battery, if that is the current sense for AIS I will just interrupt it with whatever the proper resistor is to fool it to think the battery is just a touch to low to engage AIS and not to give any faults to the TLX.

I welcome any and all feedback on how we all can proceed to disable this annoying feature! They tell us that it gives us the 1-2 MPG increase but the EPA clearly states its just for pollution purposes so they tell us about the MPG so we think it is helping instead.
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Old 02-14-2019, 11:40 AM
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You're definitely onto something. I installed a VCMuzzler to stop VCM, but I hoped deep down it would stop AIS too. It did not. It stopped my VCM but not my AIS. So either the VCM and AIS Booleans are different or the coolant temp threshold for VCM and AIS are different. Maybe, just maybe, Acura figured AIS is permissible at cooler engine temps than VCM is. I'm not sure why either would be allowable sooner than the other after a cold start - both should be off until engine is warm. But if I go any higher with my resistor to test my theory, I'll get a CEL for a P0128 - Coolant Temperature Below Thermostat Regulating Temperature (engine does not reach expected temperature after running for sufficient time).

Can't believe I didn't think of this last night... There must be a trigger for the firmness of depressing the brake pedal! That is how our cars know when we want to activate AIS. Otherwise when you feather it, you get the MID "fully depress brake to engage idle stop" or whatever the message is. I wonder what that brake pressure circuit looks like. If you could put a relay or resistor in there to block the "fully depressed" position every time, it should default to thinking you never want to idle stop.

Last edited by someguy11; 02-14-2019 at 11:42 AM.
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Old 02-14-2019, 03:09 PM
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Well, I tried to unplug the battery temp sensor that is the disc-shaped sensor on the right side of the battery that has a 3 pin connector on it and that did nothing at also it probably just needs an altered signal/resistance on the white wire as red and black is the power and ground for it.
Next, I unplugged the 2 pin connector on the negative battery and that triggers 2 errors in the MID that says charging error and AIS not available in orange. Next, I plugged that back in and unpinned 1 of the two wires 1 at a time and they both gave the same error as well. I guess I need to find out which wire is which and add a resistor to that wire just at the right value to fools the AIS to thinking the battery is too low to engage but not low wenough to cause the charging error. Lastly I noticed you have to have your seat belt plugged in for AIs to engage so why not just unplug or jump those two wires fro mthe belt? Because I am guessing the radio will mute all the time and the TLX will keep saying " Fasten Drive Belt" over and over even though my belt is on bt the sensor is unplugged/jumped.
I need some fresh ideas guys, toss some at me as the list for the condidtions for AIS is below and we must be able to trick 1 or more of them to disable this crap for good with no user interactions each time we drive?

No start/stop = no CAFE credits
S/S that can be turned off and remembers it's been turned off = a little bit of CAFE credit
S/S that can be turned off but defaults back to on = more CAFE credit
S/S that cannot be turned off at all = maximum CAFE credit


Situations where AIS will not engage:

• The driver’s seat belt is not fastened.
• The engine coolant temperature is low or high.
• The transmission fluid temperature is low or high.
• The vehicle comes to a stop again before the vehicle speed reaches 5 km/h after the engine starts.
• Stopped on a steep incline.
• A gear position other than (D or in Sport+),
• The engine is started with the hood open.
• The battery charge is low.
• The internal temperature of the battery is 14F (−10C). or less.
• The climate control system is in use, and the outside temperature is below −4F (−20C) or over 104F (40C).
• The climate control system temperature is set to the Hi or Lo.
• Front defrost indicator is ON
● When the climate control system is in use, and the difference between the set temperature and actual interior temperature becomes significant
• The vehicle is stopped by braking suddenly.
• The steering wheel is operated.
• The fan speed is high.
• Altitude is high.
• The vehicle is repeatedly accelerated and decelerated at a low speed.
• Humidity in the interior is high.
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Old 02-15-2019, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by someguy11 View Post
You're definitely onto something. I installed a VCMuzzler to stop VCM, but I hoped deep down it would stop AIS too. It did not. It stopped my VCM but not my AIS. So either the VCM and AIS Booleans are different or the coolant temp threshold for VCM and AIS are different. Maybe, just maybe, Acura figured AIS is permissible at cooler engine temps than VCM is. I'm not sure why either would be allowable sooner than the other after a cold start - both should be off until engine is warm. But if I go any higher with my resistor to test my theory, I'll get a CEL for a P0128 - Coolant Temperature Below Thermostat Regulating Temperature (engine does not reach expected temperature after running for sufficient time).

Can't believe I didn't think of this last night... There must be a trigger for the firmness of depressing the brake pedal! That is how our cars know when we want to activate AIS. Otherwise, when you feather it, you get the MID "fully depress brake to engage idle stop" or whatever the message is. I wonder what that brake pressure circuit looks like. If you could put a relay or resistor in there to block the "fully depressed" position every time, it should default to thinking you never want to idle stop.


So, I got some insight from a tech at my dealer and all he can think of is to tamper with the Voltage Reg under the center console on the driver side and is accessible just by pulling the long panel off with no tools. He suggests that maybe we can either remove 1 wire(s) or maybe put a resistor on a wire or something else but not to unplug it all together as it might toss a code.
I'm going to see about disconnecting the seatbelt wires for the dummy light and find a way to turn off the voice reminder for it as that seems like the easiest and non-invasive method that I have thought about thus far. I should take some Adderall and smoke the best weed I can find to get some bright ideas lol.
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Old 03-14-2019, 06:46 AM
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Update: So I found that the regulator is under the center console and the wire connector for it faces the driver leg area and can be reached easily from that side panel next to your right knee in seconds. Now I am figuring out which wire(s) I have to remove or intercept for it to be disabled fully without any side effects.
I can't believe so, many people deal with this and haven't seen more thread on this for the V6?
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:20 AM
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I can't provide help, but as someone who finds this "feature" annoying as hell, I fully support your effort.
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:19 AM
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I can give first hand report that the AIS is NOT deactivated on a low battery. Twice within a few days span mine kicked in at a stoplight when I forgot to hit the button. First time the car did restart, but took a few tries so I wrote it off to happenstance.
A few days later and after several fairly normal starts, it shut off at a light during rush hour and would not start due to dead battery. No warning lights, just shut off and not enough juice to restart. Cop gave me a ride to the auto parts store and I jumped it off my new battery and cables. Lol

Sode note- my 2018 F150 has the same feature, and for this there is a great product called Autostop eliminator. Works like a charm!! Basically a plug in module that tricks the button into staying deactivated unless the button is reset. So, at least in the F150 application, there is a solution. I never touch my button now!! Ford at least have it an appropriate acronym -ASS 😂 or auto start stop.

This is a huge market to be tapped into In my opinion, however each application would likely need to be reverse engineered very specifically.
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Old 03-14-2019, 12:15 PM
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I went to acurapartsnow to poke around in the equipment. Like I said earlier, I suspected we could manipulate the brake pedal such that it never thinks it's pressed hard enough to activated AEIS. Under chassis->pedal, I thought it might be item 2, but that's on every trim, so I think it's just a switch to deactivate cruise control. The entire brake pedal assembly item 6 also applies to every trim, so there is nothing special about the brake pedal on the Advance.

Bummed out, I figured I'd check out tlxforums and found the attached. Indeed, as we all know, the brake pedal does dictate AEIS. The table says something about brake pedal pressing weak (low system pressure). Makes sense. Explains the MID notification you get saying "fully depress pedal to activate AEIS" or whatever. So I figured Acura must be reading the pressure somehow to determine when the driver wants to activate AEIS. Under chassis->brake master cylinder I found item 6, sensor - master power pressure. Based on the vehicle fitment, 2015-2017 ADV and TECH AWD, 2018-2019 TLL ALL AWD and 2016-2018 MDX ADV, I think we just found our culprit doodad. Sure enough, over at mdxers are MDX owners with Advance complaining about AEIS. This gizmo is controlling it.

Anyone seriously hating this AEIS enough could locate and start tinkering with this. It's probably a pressure sensor with a built in normally open relay that closes and sends a single to the ECU when the brake system pressure increases beyond a threshold... and opens when it drops back down. There would be some signal wires (2 probably if a DC loop) coming out of it that is normally dead but hot when AEIS is activated. I would first test that theory with a multimeter. Then I would see what happens if I disconnected them. If that throws a code or lights up the dash, I would think about adding a low Ohm resistor across the + and - as a bypass to the ECU getting an AEIS activate signal. I'm speculating here. I don't know the schematic design of the system. A more complicated system would have the pressure sensor sending an actual pressure reading to the ECU. If that is the case, then the AEIS controlling logic is in the ECU, so you would have to jimmyrig the signal wires differently. I would try this stuff myself, but I'm an EE, not an electrician or mechanic.
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Old 03-14-2019, 02:24 PM
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After doing a little more research, I would either NOT recommend going the route I just suggested, or proceeding VERY carefully.
https://www.yourmechanic.com/article...by-ty-thompson
https://www.quora.com/How-brake-pressure-sensor-works

Like I said, I don't know the TLX design or have the TLX schematic in front of me. It certainly doesn't appear as though this sensor is on any other trims besides those with AEIS, so that could be its only purpose in life. But if Acura uses brake pressure for controlling AEIS in addition to controlling things like the ABS system, stability control, etc., I would avoid messing with it.
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