Couple interesting factoids:
- I work with my mother
- I have lived on my own since I was 18, save for a year and a half I stayed with my dad to save for a condo

The Backstory
So since the beginning of time my brother has been lazy. Hes a smart kid, but he takes the easy way out - the extremely easy way out. Mom has had to berrate him since I can remember about everything from finishing his dinner, to doing yardwork to getting his schoolwork done.

So since he was 18 there has been the expectation that he must work and go to college if he was to live under moms roof. He cant hold a job for more than 6 months, even though he says he likes the places he works, when he takes classes he takes a couple and withdraws from the "hard" ones, and hes downright rude and disrespectful to his mother.

Freaking 3 years of verbal/mental abuse later, mom finally makes him move in with my dad (note, she didnt want to kick him out on the street). Thats another epic story. Dad has supplied him with all the tools a kid needs to survive and then some. Cars, cash, tuition, the whole nine yards.

He knows better than to contact me for money or anything else in the "give me" department. We go hangout and watch movies but its not to frequent because I dont like him as a person as hes pretty much a hypocrite. He talks about how shitty the world is and how its setup for people to fail - yet he makes no good attempt to make peace with his backyard. The fact is, while I dont have a lot of $$ to speak for, I can at least pay for the basic things someone needs. He's been getting better about showing up to Fathers Day dinner with a gift and not going to events without $$, but I think its because Ive told him before, that shit isnt cool.

The Problem
Since he moved out Moms been trying to get in touch with him and hes basically stopped calling her back. Since she can never seem to explain herself enough she feels the need to step into my office and rant. 99% of the time I just keep my mouth shut until she leaves again, but its getting to be ridiculous. At this point shes started to get mad at ME because as a sister, shes raised me to be the better person and "talk to him." She says hes depressed and he probably is, but thats what happens when youre basically a lazy sack who spends their day contemplating how retarded everyone else is.

Frankly, I think Ive spent enough energy talking to him. Ive suggested jobs for him, career paths, school matters - he just never seems interested unless its handed to him guaranteed on a silver platter. God helps those who helps themselves and I think I like the way God thinks on that subject. He works at the mall very part time, he let the timing belt go on his car so thats busted sitting at the house with the hood never even being popped (dads making payments on it, btw), and apparently he isnt going to school. Did I mention he (imo) verbally abuses his cute little girlfriend who now drives him around everywhere?

Everyone is so afraid he'll go into a depressed funk and kill himself that they just let him do what he wants. I say fuck it - kick him out and make him live with nature by the river with his books and his lack of responsibility. You want to act like a hippy? Thats cool - but dont expect to be wearing deodorant eating any protein. He needs to appreciate paying a frickin light bill and having to be nice to a dumbass customer because if you lose your job you wont be able to eat next week.

He needs to learn Humility.

Add in a dash of guilt on my part and the situation is just shitty. I probably represent the "perfect" child well on my way through life (lol - how far from the truth is that - what defines success anyway?) that never does anything wrong and who would want to listen to someone like that preach.

Cliffs:
- Brother is a bit of a slacker
- Brother in unappreciative of what peple do for him
- Family fears hes depressed and wont do anything "harsh"
- Family is mad at me because I want to take a hard-nosed approach

 

I think you're taking the right approach.

 

I think mom is just frustrated and is taking it out on me. No fairsies.

I just have to keep my mouth shut. If she wants to judge me based on my brother, she needs to take a look in the mirror as her siblings' lives are pretty f'ed up.

Definitely aint gonna go there, though.

 

You can only help someone up to a point. Usually for family I would go a bit further. But at some point it becomes too much. He needs to learn how to stand on his own 2 feet and be a man. If it takes you guys being tough on him, then so be it.

Personally I would also recommend a swift kick in the ass as well.

 

That happens. My mom always groups my in with my sister when they are arguing. Deal with it. It's not going to change even if your brother does. You need to just tell her is BS. And then remind her when she does it.

 

Put it in the ass?

 

A few pieces of this jump out at me:

IOW, "the world owes me a living." Talk about making excuses. Your world is what you make it, and if you don't make the effort (which he clearly isn't), don't be surprised if you end up with a big fat FAIL stamped on your forehead. To him, his own failures are everyone else's fault, and until he gets past that and starts looking inward for answers, he won't be of any use to anyone.

Dad isn't helping, he's enabling. He's giving him all the tools he needs to fail. Treating him like a child won't help him grow up.

No. Your brother is not your problem. Whatever effort you make on his behalf should be because you want to, not because your mother wants you to. Sounds like she's also part of the problem. She doesn't want to make the effort either, so she dumps his problems onto you. Don't fall for it.

Again, this isn't your problem. The only person that can take care of him is him. He has to want it, and until he does, all attempts by anyone to help him will fail. He's an adult and it's about freakin' time he starts acting like one.

Among other things. Now you're getting it.

Don't go there. You have nothing to feel guilty about. Parents are great at laying guilt on their children for the parents' own failures.

 

She was hoping that you would take care of that.

 

Somebody had too...

 

Whiskers, I dont appreciate your lame comments at all, let alone in my thread. Please refrain.

Sids, Ive had the whole "kick the bum out" attitude since he was 18 years old. Thats why Mom gets irritated with talking to me because thats always my "solution"

Another major issue is that these conversations happen 90% of the time at work. She ends up getting pissy with me and frankly, Im just not interested in this kind of conflict when Im doing my job. I actually got her to stop today because I threatened to leave for the day. I understand she needs to vent as she doesnt have many people she can talk to about this, but I think today it got all personal and it really upset me. Thats a whole 'nother issue, though. Im basically just hanign on until next June.

I appreciate the feedback. I wish he would just do what he wants to do in life. Im pretty sure his life goal isnt to disenchant his friends and family and be a slacker.

 

Here's your problem. Spoiled kids are always the biggest failures.

 

Material possessions do not a spoiled kid make. Technically dad gave me my first car (96 Ford Escort), prepaid my cell phone until I was 21, paid any extra money that scholarships and grants didnt pay for college and paid for my study abroad to China. Thats a lot for a normal guy making normal money.

I think the biggest difference is when I was younger I hated to feel trapped. Not saying I never put myself out there, but having to live under my mother's rules really pissed me off. Additionally I saw how fuxored she was when dad left (uneducated, no job) and decided Id never be like that. I dont think my brother had the appropriate reaction to seeing his parents in these situations. I also think he may have been too young to see how they financially struggled. Also, since we are 4 years apart I had to pay for "simple" stuff like my prom dress and he didnt since they were in better shape by the time that stuff came up.

But all of that doesnt really matter. At some point a person looks at their life and where its headed and either decides to go along that path or change it. I dont think he's even bothered to look up from the ditch he's in.

 

honestly i was on the same path as your brother, except i changed at around 14 or 15... i came from a similar situation, divorced parents n all, wasnt spoiled, but i wasnt deprived either. my father is what made the huge difference, discipline is what i needed, got, and excelled because of.

you need to do nothing, and you cant do anything my older sister tried to talk to me too... it doesnt work he sees you as a peer not an elder... this is all on your parents to do whats right... youve done all you could and you should not feel any guilt whatsoever. the so called guilt you feel is just hurt because you obviously care about him, but cant do anything about it. ill say it again, your parents need to get on his case before its too late... at this age its goign to have to be drastic measures too.

 

1) that is nowhere in the bible and is completely wrong
2) sounds like you need to humble yourself before him, yes he is fucked up, but if you really cared (which you dont) you would stop judging him and actually help him. but because he knows you are judging him and being completely transparent he doesnt respect you either...
sounds like you need to be honest with your mother and him. i understand he needs to be more responsible, but mom needs to speak up and dad needs to stop spoiling him. he will never learn that way. you need to be there for him because he is your fucking brother.

 

First off, I never said the bible said anything. People representation of God (which is all we have to go on) said that. Chill out.

And how exactly should I be there for him? Everyone makes "judgements." Yes, I have judged him. Ive offered him help and either he doesnt accept it or he doesnt help himself.

Im 99% you just took my God comment out of context and judged me and now would rather take anyone elses side but my own. Thanks a lot.

 

I dont want him to feel like he cant talk to me, but at the same time I wont stand for his slacker behavior. What did your parents do? I feel like mine have sucked in some aspects, but they dont want to make things worse either.

How do you make someone responsible without pulling the rug out from under them?

 

What I'm saying is since your Dad has always bought him everything he's needed (and continues to do so...case in point the car he's paying for), he has no motivation whatsoever.

I'd like to see what would happen if your Dad quit buying him things and he had to pay for it all. I don't think he's a big enough screw up to let himself go homeless, so he would be forced to get a job.

Hopefully the job sucks and he'll realize that going back to school is what he needs to do to get a job he likes.

 

I see no problem with this. He needs a kick in the ass.

 

once my parents got divorced it became easier for me to get things materialistically. it was their guilt. honestly once i got cut off... got computer, video games, etc taken away when i messed up in school or mouthed off to my parents.. not to mention i got into a few physcial altercations with my dad... it eventually straightened me out... i had a lot of depression my first 2 yrs of hs due to my fathers remarriage, i was going to a private school and all my friends went to public, and i basically skipped school all the time was an ass to everyone, and was basically a loner except for a few friends id see now and then...

once my parents snapped out of the showering me with gifts to compensenate for their failed marriage they became parents again and i became a human again. i have tremendous independence i excel in school i work an internship in nyc and commute from nj everyday, and i have lots of friends, had a gf for a while but now am just dating around... there is still hope but your parents NEED to be parents and know when to say no.

pulling out the rug is necessary at this point. i got the rug pulled out on me, the difference was i was still young enough for it not to be so drastic. he NEEDS a reality check, or else he will go nowhere fast. its hard to be motivated to pay your own way when its being paid for you.

sorry for making this about me a little bit, but i was just trying to get a point across.

the occassional ass whooping did help me too not going to lie haha.

 

True.

Its just hard for me to understand because I just have a totally different mindset. I try and maintain homeostasis as best I can and I have to react if something in my life isnt going right that I can control. He just lacks this mechanism at the moment.

 

I think ur doing right on ur part!

 

This thread is weird to me, I guess because me and my brothers aren't that close.
I know if I got on one of my brothers about his life, or of one of them did to me, we'd all be telling each other to fuck off and mind his own business.
I guess I just don't see why it's your concern what your brother is up to.

 

some people never learn until they have to dig themselves out of a hole they buried themselves in... hardheaded people have to learn the hard way. the sooner he learns, the better.

 

Im the kind of person that doesnt like to discuss this kind of stuff, either. The boy (what I call the brother) and I have had conversations where were talking about our "friends" or other "people" when were really talking about ourselves.

The problem is Im getting hasstled by my mother to step in and say something when a) Ive said my piece and he knows how I feel b) her and my father's behavior isnt condusive to my brother getting a clue.

Just making sure Im not being a biotch over the whole deal. I really dont think I am, but after months of being hasstled you second guess yourself sometimes.

 

i kinda know how you feel. im the oldest of 3 kids. the middle brother is like yours except he has a good steady job. other than that he lives for free at my moms house but doesnt do shit to help her around the house except make a mess. my mom always tries to get me to tell my brothers to do stuff because she's basically a pushover and avoids confrontation whenever she can. my parents were tough on me growing up but seemed to give up parenting when the other 2 came along.... sucks, i know.

 

I can't tell if you're more upset and frustrated with your brother's behaviour, or with the fact that your mother keeps choosing you to focus her anger and frustrations on when it should be directed at your bro. ....Maybe both?

I've had a few people close to me who, over many years, would use me as their sounding board re: issues between them and others. I don't mind being that sounding board for someone, but not when they throw in some guilt (trying to bring my emotions into it), and "suggest" that I become involved by talking to the other party about things....or even just having to relay how the other person is doing, what they were up to, or why they made certain choices. It finally got to the point where I was stressed and upset having to talk to these people, so I decided to remove myself from the middle of their conflicts.

Now, whenever these people get upset with others, relating to these ongoing issues, or whenever they suggest I be a go-between, I simply remind them that "I am not xxx, so you'll have to ask them." Or, "I don't know, you'll have to ask xxx." When they still don't seem to understand, I just flat out tell them, "I'm not xxx!!! Don't get upset with me - I didn't do anything. Talk to xxx about it!" They're certainly old enough to go directly to the source of their upset and frustration, and deal with it as adults.

So, I understand your mom is upset and just needs to vent, and as someone close to her, just as you would for a friend, I think it's important that you be there for her. HOWEVER, once she starts directing those feelings TOWARDS you instead of at the appropriate person (eg: your brother), you should tell her very bluntly that it is something she will have to deal with WITH HIM. You are your own person, his issues are not yours. Don't let her throw her stress onto you --- it won't do ANYTHING to help solve the actual problem, but stress you out as well.

 

You're making the right choice.

He's not going to learn unless he goes out into the world and suffers for himself.

My brother was exactly the same as yours, and I told my parents, fuck it. If he's not going to listen, let him do what he wants, but let him suffer. Only then will he realize not to take what he had for granted. You're not doing anything wrong.

 

SakiGT,

I think your mom is feeling the need to be supported and since it sounds like she's on her own at the moment, so she's looking to you. But you are taking the right approach here - it's not your job to raise your brother, and you can't fix this. And if your brother is suicidal over having free rent, no job, and full tuition coverage, you're not going to fix that either. There are a lot of over-dramatics coming your way.

I think it's bad parenting to have your children go parent siblings. Sorry, no offense to your mom, but I don't think what she's asking you is appropriate.

You're not his parent, and you don't hold that kind of influence over him. You've made your point to him and he's ignored it. Your mom is upset but she's not upset at you - you're just a convenient target. She's mad at the situation and needs to be mad at something. I would not feel any guilt not taking any action and sticking to it. Your mom will get over it.

This kind of behavior gets enabled in children at an early age. At his age, it's beyond repair short of professional help or some kind of realization on his part. So long as your dad enables him, nothing will change.

I think you're right to stay out of this one, avoid the drama, and be patient with your mom. Good luck!