Mike 350Z

^^^I was never really aware of the politics behind diamonds until I heard that "diamonds are forever" by kanye west. it's good to see a mainstream music artist speak out a subject that i now know is rather disturbing.

CLpower

are you a guy? Why do you have an engagement ring?

CL Platano

She should be happy with whatever she gets , once you get divorced she is getting 66.6% of net worth anyway.

youngTL

That's sure optimistic.

Ken1997TL

Let her figure it out. She has common sense and taste.

SDCGTSX

Hmm. That made me wonder, do 2 lesbians both get rings and do gays both NOT get rings?

youngTL

OMG, even I don't know the answer to that question! I really should, considering it's legal here now. I'm guessing that guys would give each other a solid metal band or something. And who knows with lesbians. Never know what the crazy bitches are gonna do next!

SDCGTSX

Well, maybe gay guys take turns putting the "ring" on the "finger".

Also, is it the butch's job to propose to the lipstick?

RaviNJCLs

iTrader: (4)

Personally, I think she should be happy with whichever ring.

However most women tend to drop some hints. And they're the ones that have to wear it, so I don't see anything wrong with the woman picking it out.

ric

This guy is pitching diamonds, but the history is interesting. It does confirm the notion that diamond rings are the result of a brilliant and aggressive marketing campaign.

http://www.diamondwholesalecorporati...ementRing.html

The history of the engagement ring is more about myth and fantasy than actual fact until you enter the 20th Century when a marked turn of events shapes public opinion beyond all doubt.
Today almost everyone's interpretation of the engagement ring is something along these lines: "A symbol of ever lasting purity, love, devotion and commitment between two people". But where did it all start?

The earliest surviving records have shown that Archduke Maximillian of Hamburg may have started the trend among the European wealthy and royalty of giving diamond engagement rings in 1477 by giving Mary of Burgundy a diamond betrothal ring.

What happened before 1477? Was there such a thing as an engagement ring and if so were they set with diamonds?

Pre - History
Lets go back to our ancestors, "prehistoric man" who are supposed to have tied the woman's arms and legs together so she could not escape. It wasn't an attempt at deviant sexual acts, but it wasn't the most flattering way to show how you care either!

Eventually the "bride's" legs would have been released and if she made no attempt to run away then she would just have worn a tied cord with a trailing end around one of her little fingers.

It's certainly an interesting theory ahem!...

Ancient History
The ancient Roman's called their engagement ring the betrothal (Truth) ring. The Romans were the first to wear the ring on the third finger of the left hand.

This surviving tradition seems to stem from the Egyptian belief that the vein from this finger leads straight to the heart. It's thought that the Romans were the first to start inscribing or engraving their rings.

The Middle Ages
The Middle Ages and the Gimmal or "bond" ring was invented, but it's doubtful that this was an engagement ring design. However, sapphires, emeralds and rubies would have been the norm for those who could afford them.

Because diamond is the hardest and strongest mineral on earth it was seen to resist fire and steel and thus symbolize the unbending union of a man and woman in wedlock. So it became more commonplace for the European super wealthy and royalty to give a diamond engagement ring at this time.

Less wealthy citizens would have given a Fede (faith) ring in the form of two clasped hands more akin to the more modern claddagh (clasped hands) engagement rings.

The 18th Century
Diamonds became more readily available when diamonds were discovered in Brazil. Diamond cluster engagement rings were fashionable among the wealthy.

The 19th Century
In South Africa 1870, the vast, newly discovered Kimberley diamond region began to flood the market with not so rare a gem after all! The supply increased whilst the prices fell.

Within 10 years the now famous De Beers Consolidated Mines Ltd. was formed by the Englishman Cecil John Rhodes to control the sale of diamonds throughout the world. Even today they control 65% of the world's diamond trade.

At this time during the history of the engagement ring, the diamond rush gave rise to the notion that the various birthstones were seen to be a rarity (and more desirable) compared to the diamond.

Elaborate engagement rings of sapphire, emerald and rubies (and other precious gems) with diamond accents were therefore more commonplace among those with appropriate wealth.
The 20th Century
From 1880 De Beers were able to control the supply (and price) of diamonds but how were they going to control demand during a period when sales began dropping dramatically (up to 50%) in the 20s and 30s onwards through the great depression?
Just as platinum started to become popular in diamond engagement rings, diamonds were becoming less valued. Platinum was banned for all but war use during WWII and so the platinum diamond engagement rings as we know them today almost died out.

The answer to the problem was a new marketing campaign commissioned by De Beers that began in 1947. Perhaps you've heard the slogan "A Diamond is forever"? This was to mark the beginning of a change in the history of the engagement ring.

Subsequent campaigns would convince families to hold on to their diamonds as family heirlooms... and it worked! Used diamonds were not being released back into the industry which in turn created the demand that De Beers were seeking.

Jewelers were unofficially educated by De Beers to instruct men that two to three months personal wages were an ideal price to pay for the diamond engagement ring that their prospective fiancée's would gladly accept.

In 1953 the world's two most glamorous women of the time Marilyn Monroe and Jane Russell were the stars of the hit film musical Gentlemen Prefer Blondes.

The plot involves Monroe and Russell chasing potential husbands on a cruise to France. The movie also features a very famous song sung by the blonde bombshell Marilyn Monroe, Diamonds Are A Girls Best Friend.

This film would have undoubtedly influenced public opinion at the time and will have advanced the popularity of diamonds for years afterwards through Hollywood glamour.

The film is now 50 years old but it's still a firm favorite of all who love Hollywood and the legend of Monroe. (Of course there are others: High Society, Breakfast At Tiffany’s, Diamonds Are Forever among them)

This is where the tradition of the diamond engagement ring really started, all from an advertising campaign that literally "rocked" the world! (Get it? "rocked".... okay I'll shut up!) So you see buying a diamond engagement ring isn't really a popular ancient tradition.

It's more a combination of "dreaming of being a princess", a clever marketing campaign and compelling Hollywood glamour that ultimately promotes diamonds as the only jewels with which to furnish your loved one as a sign of engagement.

The 21st Century
The history of the engagement ring has moved on and demand for diamonds and platinum diamond engagement rings is still rising. The tradition is here to stay. Estimated 78% of all engagement rings sold every year are diamond.

It would seem that no matter what you personally decide, she'll be expecting a diamond! Free expert advice on diamonds and diamond engagement rings will be given by our Gemologists, via E-Mail or Phone:

derrick

I think I'll pick out platinum. Over time, if you keep polishing white gold, it thins out ... platinum holds its mass better. You're right it costs more and may scratch easier than white gold, but it endures. I have no plans whatsoever to 'upgrade' like others I know do after 10yrs, etc. One ring ... the one I gave her when I (will) propose.

BTW, yellow gold hides some of the yellow discoloration in diamonds. That's why jewelers often mount OK diamonds on yellow gold. High end stores (eg Tiffany's) mount on white gold / platinum to bling their diamonds.

rise

more interesting info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Beers

ric

yep - in terms of dominating and controlling a market, DeBeers is at the top.... but the competition will be:

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.09/diamond.html

The New Diamond Age


Armed with inexpensive, mass-produced gems, two startups are launching an assault on the De Beers cartel.
Next up: the computing industry.

By Joshua Davis

Aron Weingarten brings the yellow diamond up to the stainless steel jeweler's loupe he holds against his eye. We are in Antwerp, Belgium, in Weingarten's marbled and gilded living room on the edge of the city's gem district, the center of the diamond universe. Nearly 80 percent of the world's rough and polished diamonds move through the hands of Belgian gem traders like Weingarten, a dealer who wears the thick beard and black suit of the Hasidim.

"This is very rare stone," he says, almost to himself, in thickly accented English. "Yellow diamonds of this color are very hard to find. It is probably worth 10, maybe 15 thousand dollars."

"I have two more exactly like it in my pocket," I tell him.

He puts the diamond down and looks at me seriously for the first time. I place the other two stones on the table. They are all the same color and size. To find three nearly identical yellow diamonds is like flipping a coin 10,000 times and never seeing tails.

"These are cubic zirconium?" Weingarten says without much hope.

"No, they're real," I tell him. "But they were made by a machine in Florida for less than a hundred dollars."

Weingarten shifts uncomfortably in his chair and stares at the glittering gems on his dining room table. "Unless they can be detected," he says, "these stones will bankrupt the industry."

Put pure carbon under enough heat and pressure - say, 2,200 degrees Fahrenheit and 50,000 atmospheres - and it will crystallize into the hardest material known. Those were the conditions that first forged diamonds deep in Earth's mantle 3.3 billion years ago. Replicating that environment in a lab isn't easy, but that hasn't kept dreamers from trying. Since the mid-19th century, dozens of these modern alchemists have been injured in accidents and explosions while attempting to manufacture diamonds.

Recent decades have seen some modest successes. Starting in the 1950s, engineers managed to produce tiny crystals for industrial purposes - to coat saws, drill bits, and grinding wheels. But this summer, the first wave of gem-quality manufactured diamonds began to hit the market. They are grown in a warehouse in Florida by a roomful of Russian-designed machines spitting out 3-carat roughs 24 hours a day, seven days a week. A second company, in Boston, has perfected a completely different process for making near-flawless diamonds and plans to begin marketing them by year's end. This sudden arrival of mass-produced gems threatens to alter the public's perception of diamonds - and to transform the $7 billion industry. More intriguing, it opens the door to the development of diamond-based semiconductors.

But first things first. Before anyone reinvents the chip industry, they'll have to prove they can produce large volumes of cheap diamonds. Beyond Gemesis and Apollo, one company is convinced there's something real here: De Beers Diamond Trading Company. The London-based cartel has monopolized the diamond business for 115 years, forcing out rivals by ruthlessly controlling supply. But the sudden appearance of multicarat, gem-quality synthetics has sent De Beers scrambling. Several years ago, it set up what it calls the Gem Defensive Programme - a none too subtle campaign to warn jewelers and the public about the arrival of manufactured diamonds. At no charge, the company is supplying gem labs with sophisticated machines designed to help distinguish man-made from mined stones.
.................................................. .........................
In other words, the General is preparing a first strike on the diamond business. "Right now, we only threaten the way De Beers wants the consumer to think of a diamond," he says, noting that his current monthly output doesn't even equal that of a small mine. "But imagine what happens when we fill this warehouse and then the one next door," he says with a grin. "Then I'll have myself a proper diamond mine."
Abbaschian's efforts had produced some very high-quality stones. So Clarke flew to London to show off a batch to potential investors. Rather than simply present them as a pile of loose diamonds, he went to a jeweler in Hatton Garden, the city's diamond district, and asked if a few of his stones could be set in rings. The jeweler agreed, and Clarke returned to his hotel room at Claridge's. The phone rang. It was De Beers.

According to Clarke, a De Beers executive, James Evans Lombe, was tipped off about the synthetic diamonds within two hours of their arrival at the jeweler's. Lombe asked for a meeting with the General. The De Beers executive drove directly to Claridge's, and the two men sat down in the tearoom to the strains of a piano and violin duet.

De Beers refuses to comment on the meeting - or about anything for this story - but Clarke says he simply placed his diamonds on the table. "When I told him that we planned to set up a factory to mass-produce these, he turned white," the General recalls. "They knew about the technology, but they thought it would stay in Russia and that nobody would get it working right. By the end of the conversation, his hands were shaking."

But De Beers wasn't backing down. Throughout 2000, the cartel accelerated its Gem Defensive Programme, sending out its testing machines - dubbed DiamondSure and DiamondView - to the largest international gem labs. Traditionally, these labs analyzed and certified color, clarity, and size. Now they were being asked to distinguish between man-made and mined. The DiamondSure shines light through a stone and analyzes its refractory characteristics. If the gem comes up suspicious, it must be tested with the DiamondView, which uses ultraviolet light to reveal the crystal's internal structure. "Ideally the trade would like to have a simple instrument that could positively identify a diamond as natural or synthetic," De Beers scientists wrote in 1996, when the company unveiled plans to develop authentication devices. "Unfortunately, our research has led us to conclude that it is not feasible at this time to produce such an ideal instrument, inasmuch as synthetic diamonds are still diamonds physically and chemically."
In the summer of 2001, Abbaschian told the General that they were finally ready to mass-produce diamonds. There was one last decision to make. Each machine was capable of generating a 3-carat yellow stone every three days (colorless takes longer). Given their scarcity, the price per carat was much higher for yellow diamonds - so much higher, in fact, that only the very wealthy could afford them. Plus, colored diamonds have gotten hot in recent years. (J. Lo's engagement ring? Pink diamond.) Clarke decided that he'd make the biggest splash by bringing yellows to Middle America. He'd compete on both price - charging 10 to 50 percent less than naturals - and style. And, if he succeeded with the yellow stones, he could transition into colorless.

The diamond industry fought back. Early last year, De Beers began shipping improved, even more sensitive DiamondSure machines to labs around the world. Meanwhile, industry groups led by the Jewelers Vigilance Committee have pressured the Federal Trade Commission to force Gemesis to label its stones as synthetic.

The tussle goes to the heart of the marketing problem for Gemesis or any maker of synthetic gems: How will consumers feel about them? The mystique of natural diamonds is anything but rational. Part of the allure is their high cost and supposed rarity. Yet diamonds are plentiful - De Beers maintains vast stockpiles and tightly controls supply.

Clever marketing may bring buyers around to manufactured diamonds. After all, there's no chance that they are so-called blood diamonds - stones sold by African rebels to fund wars and revolutions. And they aren't under the thumb of an international cartel accused of buying off foreign governments, despoiling the environment, flouting antimonopoly laws, and exploiting mine workers.

In fact, Gemesis is developing a marketing campaign that portrays synthetics as superior to naturals. The General came up with a proposal to brand the company's diamonds "cultured" - a deliberate echo of the designation given to the wildly successful (and more valuable than natural) cultured pearl. In an ambiguous April 2001 ruling, the Federal Trade Commission said that it was "unfair or deceptive" to call a man-made diamond a "diamond," but offered no opinion on the question of calling it a "cultured diamond."

So, for now, Clarke is sticking with cultured. But in the end, he insists, it won't really matter. "If you give a woman a choice between a 2-carat stone and a 1-carat stone and everything else is the same, including the price, what's she gonna choose?" he demands. "Does she care if it's synthetic or not? Is anybody at a party going to walk up to her and ask, 'Is that synthetic?' There's no way in hell. So I'll bite your ass if she chooses the smaller one."

Wrong, says Jef Van Royen, a senior scientist at the Diamond High Council, the official representative of the diamond industry in Belgium. "If people really love each other, then they give each other the real stone," he says, during an interview at council headquarters on the Hoveniersstraat in Antwerp. "It is not a symbol of eternal love if it is something that was created last week." So goes the De Beers-backed line. And forget the cultured pearl comparison, Van Royen says. Man-made diamonds are more like synthetic emeralds, introduced in large quantities in the mid-'70s. At first, their price was very high, but then the gem labs discovered that the synthetics could be easily distinguished using a standard microscope. The price collapsed and is now less than 3 percent of naturals.


One such group - headed by the Choksi family - bought a $35,000 batch of preliminary Gemesis research stones last year and is currently selling them in India at a 10 to 20 percent profit. I met Sabin Choksi, one of the company's principals, at a jewelry convention in Las Vegas. He admitted that his customers don't know the stones are synthetic, but says they don't care one way or the other. In other words, Gemesis may be fully disclosing the nature of its stones, but already one of its wholesalers is not.
.................................................. ...........................................
In Antwerp, Van Royen tells me of another threat. There's a rumor of a new, experimental method for growing gem-quality diamonds. The process - chemical vapor deposition - has been used for more than a decade to cover relatively large surfaces with microscopic diamond crystals. The technique transforms carbon into a plasma, which then precipitates onto a substrate as diamond. The problem with the technology has always been that no one could figure out how to grow a single crystal using the method. At least until now, Van Royen says. Apollo Diamond, a shadowy company in Boston, is rumored to be sitting on a single-crystal breakthrough. If true, it represents a new challenge to the industry, since CVD diamonds could conceivably be grown in large bricks that, when cut and polished, would be indistinguishable from natural diamonds. "But nobody has seen them in Antwerp," Van Royen says. "So we don't even know if they are for real."

I take a transparent 35-millimeter film canister from my pocket and put it on the table. Two small diamonds are cushioned on cotton balls inside. "Believe me," I say, "they're for real."

greaTLakes

I let my wife pick out her own ring so she's guaranteed to be happy with it. My wife and I have a good grasp on eath others' tastes, but I still wouldn't want her picking out my next car and surprising me with her choice. :shakehead

TaroCake

You returned the ring? Who broke off the engagement? If he broke it off you should be able to keep it. If you broke it off then vice versa.

dallison

we used to frequent jewelry stores way back, so i had an idea what to get, but i usually have real good taste in what i get her

she was surprised and had no idea i got it for her, picking a ring for the wife to be instead of her choosing is better i feel

zamo

i made my wife pick her engagement ring.

virtualbong

No they shouldn't pickout the engagement ring since its a gift.

zamo

It is a "common" gift. Some ladies even pay for them.

snowman81

I think picking out the ring for her is half the fun. If you are asking her to marry you, you should have a good idea of what she likes and doesn't like...if you paid attention to anything she said. I know it's not necessarily the macho thing to do but there are so many ways to figure all this out. I don't have any plans of getting married anytime soon but I already know what ring she would like. And I found that out after only 1 month. Now the question is will I ever have to put that knowledge to use.

Mr Hyde

I got ideas from my fiance, and bought it on my own, and totally surprised her. From what everyone says, apparently I did a good job. :whew:

I was debatiing between the white gold, and platinum also, and was leaning towards the whie gold for cultural reasons. (Indians have used gold in weddings forever). In the end though, I went with Platinum. Not sure how much harder it is to maintain, but it doesnt scratch as easy, so it wont need as much maintenance. Its also stronger, and I wanted the strongest stuff possible on the prongs holding the diamond on.

eve

I broke it off. I didn't want to keep it and my plan was to return it anyway but before I even told him I didn't want it, he told me to give it back.

SDCGTSX

What bloodthirsty council of women created this rule? If the damn thing is off then return the damn ring. What are you going to do with a broken engagement ring? Wear it? I think not. Pawn it off for profit? That's so tacky. Any woman with any class would just return the damn thing to the guy.

Scooter

she shouldn't be there with you but you should have a pretty good idea of the shape of the diamond that she likes since she has to wear it........and definitely white gold-platinum is overrated...

moeronn

A followup question to those who either had the girl pick out the ring or at least went shopping with you. Was the ring bought before or after you actually proposed?