This is going to sound pretensious as hell, but...
07-27-2005, 12:42 PM
#81
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Originally Posted by Caliadria
You're assuming that I made a bad choice in my husband... I'd rather work out my problems than give up and take all his money.
07-27-2005, 12:43 PM
#82
Originally Posted by lodi781
I don't know how other states are, but in CT, the women gets everything. automatic half plus alimony and child support. No matter if she cheats or not. Now, there's a 50% divorce rate in this country, so let's think of this in terms of money.
If you were offered an invesment opprtunity that said there was a 50% chance that you will lose 50- 75% of your net worth, would you take it???? HELL NO. So why do people get married?
If you were offered an invesment opprtunity that said there was a 50% chance that you will lose 50- 75% of your net worth, would you take it???? HELL NO. So why do people get married?
Maybe thats the wrong state to for that investment. How about a prenuptial agreement?
07-27-2005, 12:47 PM
#83
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Originally Posted by spidey07
you can't predict the future and you can't control other people...so you never know. People change.
Yes but growing together and working through problems like adults is part of marriage. I just think "irreconcilable differences" is an oxymoron when taken in the context of marriage. Make your choice wisely in the beginning, and then stop being selfish once you're wed. In the future, whatever I do to Scott, I'm doing to myself, so I'm not going to fuck around and hurt him. I'm sure he feels the same way.
I guess what I'm saying is that the Golden Rule makes a lot more sense to me now that I'm not single.
07-27-2005, 12:49 PM
#84
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Originally Posted by Caliadria
I wouldn't marry someone who thought so little of me and my convictions that he'd ask for a prenup... once I made the decision to marry, I'm not getting divorced for any reason unless he suddenly turns into a murderous psychopath and threatens to eat my babies or something like that. And since he likes babies more than I do, I doubt that will happen.
It's an unfortunate thing that prenups are necessary but no one goes into marriage thinking that they want a divorce. But when a divorce situation happens, women want to do damage. I mean serious damage. I've seen situations where a really loving woman turns into Cerberus from hell during the divorce settlement. They want you to suffer as much as possible and they'll take as much as they can.
So if you both are not super wealthy, then it's fine to talk about building a life together. But if one side is super wealthy already, it's a different dynamic. You don't want to throw away what your family has built over some decision that may turn out to be a bad one.
07-27-2005, 12:56 PM
#85
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Originally Posted by SDCGTSX
I don't know your personal wealth situation but believe me, if you came from money, you'd think different. I'm not super wealthy but I have enough that I actually get dates and laid because of it. Cynical but true. But I have friends who's families are worth 10-100 mil and once girls know, they start salivating. I'm not saying that these women are gold-diggers but believe me, if you found out after 6 months of dating a guy that he is actually the sole heir to a 100 mil dollar fortune, you'd be doing backflips in your mind and counting the trips to Bahamas.
It's an unfortunate thing that prenups are necessary but no one goes into marriage thinking that they want a divorce. But when a divorce situation happens, women want to do damage. I mean serious damage. I've seen situations where a really loving woman turns into Cerberus from hell during the divorce settlement. They want you to suffer as much as possible and they'll take as much as they can.
So if you both are not super wealthy, then it's fine to talk about building a life together. But if one side is super wealthy already, it's a different dynamic. You don't want to throw away what your family has built over some decision that may turn out to be a bad one.
It's an unfortunate thing that prenups are necessary but no one goes into marriage thinking that they want a divorce. But when a divorce situation happens, women want to do damage. I mean serious damage. I've seen situations where a really loving woman turns into Cerberus from hell during the divorce settlement. They want you to suffer as much as possible and they'll take as much as they can.
So if you both are not super wealthy, then it's fine to talk about building a life together. But if one side is super wealthy already, it's a different dynamic. You don't want to throw away what your family has built over some decision that may turn out to be a bad one.
And you're right, I wouldn't want to throw away what my family has built; that's not fair to them. But pre-existing trusts and family inheritances are not part of the assets included when the divorce courts divvy up belongings, unless you're an idiot and you relocate your inheritances into a joint account of some sort. I say, if you're dumb enough to do that, then you deserve to lose half of it anyway.
07-27-2005, 01:35 PM
#86
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Originally Posted by spidey07
you can't predict the future and you can't control other people...so you never know. People change.
true, but a big thing I notice w/ a lot of divorces i've witnessed is people are too quick to give up. Marriages are work, as w/ any serious friendship people are going to clash and most of the time they are too stubborn to try to give in a little bit. There was an interesting statistic in my Interpersonal comm class last semester. Something like 80% of marriages that end in the first year or two are because of financial conflicts or general household dutie conflicts. If you can't get through these arguments or even try you should of never been married in the first place. It amazes me that people aren't able to work through petty shit like this.
07-27-2005, 01:42 PM
#87
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True.
Most of the divorcees I know are from cheating wives. So it isn't the little stuff - its a woman's infidelaty. Its a sure fire way to end a marriage...only takes a simple lapse of judgement.
Most of the divorcees I know are from cheating wives. So it isn't the little stuff - its a woman's infidelaty. Its a sure fire way to end a marriage...only takes a simple lapse of judgement.
07-27-2005, 01:56 PM
#88
marriage is a full-time job.
if one is dedicated and motivated to take advantage of it and make it work, it'll be worth it. it's a 2-way street though, both partners have to put in the same amount of effort...
for some people though, they will feel miserable whether they are married or single and wish they were in the "other boat."
if one is dedicated and motivated to take advantage of it and make it work, it'll be worth it. it's a 2-way street though, both partners have to put in the same amount of effort...
for some people though, they will feel miserable whether they are married or single and wish they were in the "other boat."
07-27-2005, 02:33 PM
#89
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Originally Posted by Caliadria
Maybe I do come from money, so I don't feel the need to steal my husband's in order to feel successful. You make it sound like men are the only ones whose families have "10-100 mil dollar fortunes." You don't think there are men out there who prey on rich girls for the same reasons?
And you're right, I wouldn't want to throw away what my family has built; that's not fair to them. But pre-existing trusts and family inheritances are not part of the assets included when the divorce courts divvy up belongings, unless you're an idiot and you relocate your inheritances into a joint account of some sort. I say, if you're dumb enough to do that, then you deserve to lose half of it anyway.
And you're right, I wouldn't want to throw away what my family has built; that's not fair to them. But pre-existing trusts and family inheritances are not part of the assets included when the divorce courts divvy up belongings, unless you're an idiot and you relocate your inheritances into a joint account of some sort. I say, if you're dumb enough to do that, then you deserve to lose half of it anyway.
And what if it's personal wealth that I created? Then if I structure my assets into a form that my future wife can't get at, how's that really different from a prenup other than that I do it without consent of my fiance and sort of "dupe" her into it? And the only way she would know is if she investigated into my personal wealth situation? How's that for a first night conversation? "Hey, we're married now but you'll see that "our" house is held in title in my trust and in case of divorce, you are entitled to zip.
And "intent" going into a marriage is one thing. But when shit hits the fan and something bad happens, then that's when nasty stuff starts happening. Talk to divorce lawyers, most men who are the poorer of the two usually get much less than when women are the poorer. It's also more common for a woman to make less and also for the woman to be stay at home parent. And how many poor guys marrying rich stories do you hear other than Britney Spears? You hear LOTS of stories of some rich business guy who has to give millions and millions to his wife. Jack Welch gave up some SERIOUS dough to his wife.
In the words of Eddie Murphy, "I've never met a $23 million pussy. If you find one, let me know because I"m going to start putting that shit on layway."
Last edited by SDCGTSX; 07-27-2005 at 02:37 PM.
07-27-2005, 03:06 PM
#90
Originally Posted by CLpower
seriously, i don't see marriage doing anything a long relationship doesn't do. So basically what you are saying is no one should be in a long relationship
I've read most of the posts in this thread and have not found one concrete reason for men to get married.
Statistics regarding those mental health tendencies? It sounds like false hope.
You can enjoy EVERYTHING in a relationship that you can in marriage WITHOUT a marriage certificate. Men have NOTHING to gain by signing a business contract with a woman that otherwise wouldn't be available to them without marriage. Not to mention the false sense of security that that piece of paper allows you.
And as far as pre-nups go, let's not forget that they're NEGOTIATED marriage contracts. They're smart in EVERY case simply due to the fact that BOTH partners are given the opportunity to spell out the consequences of a very possible disaster! Considering the fact that it IS possible to face divorce, because you cannot control another person or enslave them, relying on the states archaic method of handling YOUR assets is dumb.
Pre-nups have such a bad rap. Women seem to think that pre-nups are these evil contracts they sign which gaurantee them nothing and are a convenient way for men to manipulate women into something and thus reduce their power in the relationship.
07-27-2005, 03:11 PM
#91
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Originally Posted by SDCGTSX
No, you are reading into that with your general hostility for all my posts. My statement is general for both woman or man.
Er, sorry about that... I promise I'm not actually hostile towards you. You're just rubbing me the wrong way today for some reason.
Anyway, the point I was making about separate assets does not include personal assets that you have created yourself... when you marry, even if they're in your name, they are "stealable" by your wife, unless you have a prenup. I was referring to family inheritances and pre-existing trusts, which are generally considered safe from divorce proceedings. If it was money bequeathed to you in a trust, that money is untouchable by anybody but you for the duration of your life, barring strangely-worded trusts and, again, losers who clean out their trust accounts and put the funds in a different joint account (and yes, I have seen people do that over the years, believe it or not).
07-27-2005, 03:17 PM
#92
Yeehaw
Originally Posted by amisconception
Right. Then why get married?
I've read most of the posts in this thread and have not found one concrete reason for men to get married.
Statistics regarding those mental health tendencies? It sounds like false hope.
You can enjoy EVERYTHING in a relationship that you can in marriage WITHOUT a marriage certificate. Men have NOTHING to gain by signing a business contract with a woman that otherwise wouldn't be available to them without marriage. Not to mention the false sense of security that that piece of paper allows you.
I've read most of the posts in this thread and have not found one concrete reason for men to get married.
Statistics regarding those mental health tendencies? It sounds like false hope.
You can enjoy EVERYTHING in a relationship that you can in marriage WITHOUT a marriage certificate. Men have NOTHING to gain by signing a business contract with a woman that otherwise wouldn't be available to them without marriage. Not to mention the false sense of security that that piece of paper allows you.
Taxes and insurance dude. Thats it.
I agree with you 100% though. I can see NOTHING beneficial from marraige. I think its sad that people feel a government certificate elevates their relationship to a higher level.
07-27-2005, 03:18 PM
#93
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Originally Posted by amisconception
Right. Then why get married?
I've read most of the posts in this thread and have not found one concrete reason for men to get married.
.
I've read most of the posts in this thread and have not found one concrete reason for men to get married.
.
because it was what I wanted and what we felt was right for us. Nothing physically or emotionally has changed for me since it; I won't speak for her. But hte added tax benefits, etc are also a plus. I knew i'd spend the rest of my life w/ this women, why not marry her? If it's not for you, then don't worry about it. Why doesn't anyone look at it as the women getting in a contract w/ the men?
07-27-2005, 03:21 PM
#94
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Originally Posted by BEETROOT
Taxes and insurance dude. Thats it.
I agree with you 100% though. I can see NOTHING beneficial from marraige. I think its sad that people feel a government certificate elevates their relationship to a higher level.
I agree with you 100% though. I can see NOTHING beneficial from marraige. I think its sad that people feel a government certificate elevates their relationship to a higher level.
I think it's sad that you can't see marriage as anything more than a government certificate.
07-27-2005, 03:21 PM
#95
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I've actually read stories about people who wanted to hide their family money or was ashamed of it so they lived in crappy apartments. Sort of like Coming to America. But I think the better question is, IF you intend on using a prenup, WHEN is the best time to bring it up?
I'm not in a proposal situation so I don't have to figure it out now but I thought maybe before the halfway point between the proposal and marriage but before any deposits or invitations have gone out. So if marriage is in 10 months, tell her like 4-5 months after proposal. Thoughts?
My sister is getting married next year. Her fiance's family is moderately well off (1-2 mil in net worth maybe?) and our family is poorer. She is ok financially, owns her own home and makes like 100k so she's not gonna go hungry. He's doing ok too with a 6 figure salary at a good company and owns some stock in a company that is worth 500k or so. So I think they are probably not going to get a prenup.
I'm not in a proposal situation so I don't have to figure it out now but I thought maybe before the halfway point between the proposal and marriage but before any deposits or invitations have gone out. So if marriage is in 10 months, tell her like 4-5 months after proposal. Thoughts?
My sister is getting married next year. Her fiance's family is moderately well off (1-2 mil in net worth maybe?) and our family is poorer. She is ok financially, owns her own home and makes like 100k so she's not gonna go hungry. He's doing ok too with a 6 figure salary at a good company and owns some stock in a company that is worth 500k or so. So I think they are probably not going to get a prenup.
07-27-2005, 03:22 PM
#96
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Originally Posted by CLpower
Why doesn't anyone look at it as the women getting in a contract w/ the men?
When men tell his friends that he is getting married, they look at him like he just told them that he has cancer and has 6 months to live.
07-27-2005, 03:29 PM
#97
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Originally Posted by SDCGTSX
Because, when women tell their friends that they are getting married, they shriek and cheer and hug each other.
When men tell his friends that he is getting married, they look at him like he just told them that he has cancer and has 6 months to live.
When men tell his friends that he is getting married, they look at him like he just told them that he has cancer and has 6 months to live.
eh, not so much, I maybe had one or two guy friends out of probably 20 that reacted the way you described.
07-27-2005, 03:32 PM
#98
Yeehaw
Originally Posted by Caliadria
I think it's sad that you can't see marriage as anything more than a government certificate.What else is it for you? Why is it important?
07-27-2005, 03:32 PM
#99
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Originally Posted by SDCGTSX
Because, when women tell their friends that they are getting married, they shriek and cheer and hug each other.
When men tell his friends that he is getting married, they look at him like he just told them that he has cancer and has 6 months to live.
When men tell his friends that he is getting married, they look at him like he just told them that he has cancer and has 6 months to live.
07-27-2005, 03:33 PM
#100
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Originally Posted by CLpower
eh, not so much, I maybe had one or two guy friends out of probably 20 that reacted the way you described.
07-27-2005, 03:46 PM
#101
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Originally Posted by BEETROOT
What else is it for you? Why is it important?
It's intangible; I could no more describe it to you than I can define "happiness."
But I'll try... We share a name, we're locked in for life, no going back, he is me with a penis, I am him with a cooter, we are our own little tiny family that will only grow with time, everything I will ever do I will do it for him and for our children, for the rest of my life, he will be the only person I ever have to worry about pleasing sexually or emotionally, and if the rest of the world gives up on either of us at any time for any reason, we'll always have each other no matter what.
Oh, and his grandma will let me be in the family Christmas pictures this year, for SURE!
07-27-2005, 03:55 PM
#102
Yeehaw
Originally Posted by Caliadria
It's intangible; I could no more describe it to you than I can define "happiness."
But I'll try... We share a name, we're locked in for life, no going back, he is me with a penis, I am him with a cooter, we are our own little tiny family that will only grow with time, everything I will ever do I will do it for him and for our children, for the rest of my life, he will be the only person I ever have to worry about pleasing sexually or emotionally, and if the rest of the world gives up on either of us at any time for any reason, we'll always have each other no matter what.
Oh, and his grandma will let me be in the family Christmas pictures this year, for SURE!
But I'll try... We share a name, we're locked in for life, no going back, he is me with a penis, I am him with a cooter, we are our own little tiny family that will only grow with time, everything I will ever do I will do it for him and for our children, for the rest of my life, he will be the only person I ever have to worry about pleasing sexually or emotionally, and if the rest of the world gives up on either of us at any time for any reason, we'll always have each other no matter what.
Oh, and his grandma will let me be in the family Christmas pictures this year, for SURE!
still don't get why signing up with the federal government makes these things happen ^
07-27-2005, 04:01 PM
#103
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Originally Posted by BEETROOT
and it takes signing up with the federal government for you to get these things ^^?
Well, none of them except the Christmas pictures... like I said, it's indescribable; it's somewhat of a social thing. I could care less whether the government ever finds out we got married (except for the tax and insurance benefits), but I want our friends and families to know, because it is socially unacceptable to live together forever, and it is socially acceptable and encouraged to get married. I also want my children to grow up in a nuclear family setting like I did.
I'll never be able to describe it to you. In fact, before we got married, I used to yell at people who told me, "Gee, you'll never understand marriage until you're married, even though you live with him and you guys share money and expenses and love and laughter and life, etc", but they were right. It was an almost instantaneous difference... before it was he and I, now it is us. Heck, even right after we got married, everyone asked, "Gee, how can you have married him and still live so far apart?" and I said that it was no big deal, but now that time has passed I realize that my compulsion to be near him is even stronger now than it ever was, even when we were still in our codependent early stages.
Sorry I can't explain it better; when I find out what it is, I'll let you know.
07-27-2005, 04:22 PM
#105
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Beetroot:
For clarification, it is not the federal government that issues marriage licenses, it is your state government that does that. But that is not really important to your question. I will give you my perspective.
Many people hold the view that marriage is just a piece of paper and if the couple is truly committed to each other, then the state's sanctioning of it is not important. Perhaps this is so. I look at it from a religious view. Marriage binds us together in a way that merely living together and promising each other to never part cannot. In the Catholic church, marriage is the only sacrament that is not conferred upon you by a priest. You and the woman confer the sacrament upon each other. The priest is merely there as a witness. At the moment you say that vow, God himself binds you together. That is why it is stressed that marriage cannot be entered into lightly but reverently, with deep contemplation.
I realize fully that not everyone shares this view. We are all different and have our own views. Yours is no less valid than anyone elses. However, for me, marriage, family and love are the ties that bind us all together as humans. That makes the piece of paper very valuable to me.
Chris
For clarification, it is not the federal government that issues marriage licenses, it is your state government that does that. But that is not really important to your question. I will give you my perspective.
Many people hold the view that marriage is just a piece of paper and if the couple is truly committed to each other, then the state's sanctioning of it is not important. Perhaps this is so. I look at it from a religious view. Marriage binds us together in a way that merely living together and promising each other to never part cannot. In the Catholic church, marriage is the only sacrament that is not conferred upon you by a priest. You and the woman confer the sacrament upon each other. The priest is merely there as a witness. At the moment you say that vow, God himself binds you together. That is why it is stressed that marriage cannot be entered into lightly but reverently, with deep contemplation.
I realize fully that not everyone shares this view. We are all different and have our own views. Yours is no less valid than anyone elses. However, for me, marriage, family and love are the ties that bind us all together as humans. That makes the piece of paper very valuable to me.
Chris
07-27-2005, 04:23 PM
#106
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i'm not gonna lie, money is important. but it's not the end all be all.
not all women are out there to steal your money. the whole purpose of marriage is to spend your life with someone you love, and in most cases, raise a family. marriage isn't just about sex. it's about commitment. sex is just a close second.
i have intentions of marrying a successful man, but it won't be the sole reason for my decision. i plan on having a pretty little bank account full of dough myself, so.. whatever.
and a guy can have all the money in the world, but it doesn't always get the girls. i went out with this guy a few times who had a big fat trust fund- basically set for the rest of his life. however, he dropped out of college, works at UPS and certainly wasn't on the same intellectual page as i am. in layman's terms, he was dumb as a rock. he was good-looking and wealthy, but it's an incomplete package.
maybe if you clean up your grammar act and maybe put forth some effort into pleasing the opposite sex, you'll have more success in your relationships. and you might even (GASP!) find a woman you want to marry. judging from your posts, you aren't getting the tree-top apples.
not all women are out there to steal your money. the whole purpose of marriage is to spend your life with someone you love, and in most cases, raise a family. marriage isn't just about sex. it's about commitment. sex is just a close second.
i have intentions of marrying a successful man, but it won't be the sole reason for my decision. i plan on having a pretty little bank account full of dough myself, so.. whatever.
and a guy can have all the money in the world, but it doesn't always get the girls. i went out with this guy a few times who had a big fat trust fund- basically set for the rest of his life. however, he dropped out of college, works at UPS and certainly wasn't on the same intellectual page as i am. in layman's terms, he was dumb as a rock. he was good-looking and wealthy, but it's an incomplete package.
maybe if you clean up your grammar act and maybe put forth some effort into pleasing the opposite sex, you'll have more success in your relationships. and you might even (GASP!) find a woman you want to marry. judging from your posts, you aren't getting the tree-top apples.
07-27-2005, 04:29 PM
#107
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Originally Posted by supermegaglossy
judging from your posts, you aren't getting the tree-top apples.
07-27-2005, 04:33 PM
#108
Yeehaw
Originally Posted by crb-silver-tl
Beetroot:
For clarification, it is not the federal government that issues marriage licenses, it is your state government that does that. But that is not really important to your question. I will give you my perspective.
Many people hold the view that marriage is just a piece of paper and if the couple is truly committed to each other, then the state's sanctioning of it is not important. Perhaps this is so. I look at it from a religious view. Marriage binds us together in a way that merely living together and promising each other to never part cannot. In the Catholic church, marriage is the only sacrament that is not conferred upon you by a priest. You and the woman confer the sacrament upon each other. The priest is merely there as a witness. At the moment you say that vow, God himself binds you together. That is why it is stressed that marriage cannot be entered into lightly but reverently, with deep contemplation.
I realize fully that not everyone shares this view. We are all different and have our own views. Yours is no less valid than anyone elses. However, for me, marriage, family and love are the ties that bind us all together as humans. That makes the piece of paper very valuable to me.
Chris
For clarification, it is not the federal government that issues marriage licenses, it is your state government that does that. But that is not really important to your question. I will give you my perspective.
Many people hold the view that marriage is just a piece of paper and if the couple is truly committed to each other, then the state's sanctioning of it is not important. Perhaps this is so. I look at it from a religious view. Marriage binds us together in a way that merely living together and promising each other to never part cannot. In the Catholic church, marriage is the only sacrament that is not conferred upon you by a priest. You and the woman confer the sacrament upon each other. The priest is merely there as a witness. At the moment you say that vow, God himself binds you together. That is why it is stressed that marriage cannot be entered into lightly but reverently, with deep contemplation.
I realize fully that not everyone shares this view. We are all different and have our own views. Yours is no less valid than anyone elses. However, for me, marriage, family and love are the ties that bind us all together as humans. That makes the piece of paper very valuable to me.
Chris
Yeah I wasn't sure if it was state or federal...guess the gay marriage stuff lately should have tipped me off.
I'm atheist, so the religion stuff doesn't do anything for me. I guess I can understand how it can for others though. Kind of.
I just see no association between that piece of paper, and the happiness and love that people talk about from being together.
I guess I'm falling back on bigger issues than just the definition of marriage though. I'm not really big on convention.
07-27-2005, 04:39 PM
#109
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Originally Posted by Caliadria
Heck, even right after we got married, everyone asked, "Gee, how can you have married him and still live so far apart?" and I said that it was no big deal, but now that time has passed I realize that my compulsion to be near him is even stronger now than it ever was, even when we were still in our codependent early stages.
07-27-2005, 04:47 PM
#110
Chris
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I understand your view. I disagree with you, but I do understand it. As you are curious as to why people find marriage so important, I am equally curious as to why you find it so unimportant. I gather that you can't see any upside to marriage. Is this really true? No upside at all? Apart from tax advantages and lower insurance rates.
Why is marriage unimportant to you? I really want to know.
Why is marriage unimportant to you? I really want to know.
07-27-2005, 04:53 PM
#111
Yeehaw
Originally Posted by crb-silver-tl
I understand your view. I disagree with you, but I do understand it. As you are curious as to why people find marriage so important, I am equally curious as to why you find it so unimportant. I gather that you can't see any upside to marriage. Is this really true? No upside at all? Apart from tax advantages and lower insurance rates.
Why is marriage unimportant to you? I really want to know.
Why is marriage unimportant to you? I really want to know.
Correct, I don't see any upside besides the monetary benefits. To me its just completely meaningless. Signing some paperwork and going through some ceremonies today doesn't make my relationship any different tomorrow than it was yesterday.
To me its the equivalent of getting a new title at work, but your job doesn't change, you receive no extra compensation, no new office, etc. It might look good on paper, but in actuality nothing changed.
07-27-2005, 04:56 PM
#112
Chris
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Fair enough. Thanks for your opinion. I think we can agree to disagree on this one.
Unrelated question: Is it really dry heat in Arizona? I live in New Orleans, and the humidity is a killer. I have a buddy who is moving to Flagstaff. Is that anywhere near you?
Unrelated question: Is it really dry heat in Arizona? I live in New Orleans, and the humidity is a killer. I have a buddy who is moving to Flagstaff. Is that anywhere near you?
07-27-2005, 05:04 PM
#113
Yeehaw
Originally Posted by crb-silver-tl
Fair enough. Thanks for your opinion. I think we can agree to disagree on this one.
Unrelated question: Is it really dry heat in Arizona? I live in New Orleans, and the humidity is a killer. I have a buddy who is moving to Flagstaff. Is that anywhere near you?
Unrelated question: Is it really dry heat in Arizona? I live in New Orleans, and the humidity is a killer. I have a buddy who is moving to Flagstaff. Is that anywhere near you?
Yes, its usually dry heat, but that doesn't make it not miserable. 115 is awful no matter what the humidity. Last week we had 115 with 65% though, it was almost funny how bad that was.
Flagstaff is a couple hours north of me. The weather is fantastic there, nothing like Phoenix. Beautiful area too...I was just up near there on Sunday hiking.
07-27-2005, 06:10 PM
#114
dɐɹɔ ǝɥʇ ʇɐɥʍ
One of my close friends is a self made multi-millionare, he married a girl 10 years younger then him, they had a kid not long after marriage and life was great. He was making big money, she came from a good family and is an ex-model their child was healthy and a great kid. Well she got into drugs, started going out late at night(sneaking out), having multiple affairs, etc.. My friend wanted to keep things together for their child, despite what he felt was wrong. He took care of the debt she racked up(in exchange for her interest in the house - she had over $75k in debt) and in a few short months things were going great, they were a family again. Well she fell into the bad lifestyle again and filed for a divorce at the same time... She wanted his house($1.5 million), $7500/month child support/alimony - keep in mind two months earlier he bought her a brand new FX45(after she wrecked his 745Li and her Escalade). My friend, being a smart guy who earned all of this on his own had a pre-nup. Due to how she filed and the events leading up to the divorce, she got NOTHING- she got to keep the car, but that was it. She also came from a wealthy family and had a good job so the judge felt no need to give her what she was asking for, because it wouldn't change her lifestyle at all. People change, that's all there is to it, if you have made something of yourself, by yourself, you would be STUPID to get married with out a pre-nup. It would be a different story if she helped and supported you with "making it" then she would deserve her fair cut.
I am worth around $3mil. and am in my mid-twenties, self made not inheritence, etc... No woman has been there to support me and help me along the way, the late nights, the pressure at times was incredible. There is no way in the world I would hand half of what I've busted my ass earning for 15 years to someone who didn't help me as a person "make it", should our relationship come to an end. I don't see how she could feel she deserved it, anything from this(post getting married) point on, that's another story. If I entered a marriage with 3 mil, and she had 3k(its hard to find a girl in her mid-early twenties with at even that, that's she's earned) I don't see how any one could feel that if things were to end tomorrow and no more money was added to the equation we each get $1,501,500 that's just plain fucked up!
At the same time, no woman I've ever dated or talked to had a clue how much I had/made
and I try to keep it low key. I wear nice cloths have nice things, etc... But I drive a TSX, a nice car but nothing super flashy or the type of car that will attract gold diggers. I sometimes come across like I have a silver spoon shoved half way up my ass, but that seems to get some girls interested to try and figure out what's going on. But most of the time I am just a laid back, funny guy who is very ambiguous when it comes to money - I would NEVER want that to be the reason a woman would be interested in me, so when she finds out she may not be as upset to find I require a pre-nup. because I gave her no false hopes of money when we met.
I agree with who ever said marriage is not something to walk into lightly. I am not a super religous man, but I am spirtual and wouldn't take marriage lightly(getting into it or during it).
This has been an interesting discussion, I've enjoyed reading other's thoughts about this.
I am worth around $3mil. and am in my mid-twenties, self made not inheritence, etc... No woman has been there to support me and help me along the way, the late nights, the pressure at times was incredible. There is no way in the world I would hand half of what I've busted my ass earning for 15 years to someone who didn't help me as a person "make it", should our relationship come to an end. I don't see how she could feel she deserved it, anything from this(post getting married) point on, that's another story. If I entered a marriage with 3 mil, and she had 3k(its hard to find a girl in her mid-early twenties with at even that, that's she's earned) I don't see how any one could feel that if things were to end tomorrow and no more money was added to the equation we each get $1,501,500 that's just plain fucked up!
At the same time, no woman I've ever dated or talked to had a clue how much I had/made
and I try to keep it low key. I wear nice cloths have nice things, etc... But I drive a TSX, a nice car but nothing super flashy or the type of car that will attract gold diggers. I sometimes come across like I have a silver spoon shoved half way up my ass, but that seems to get some girls interested to try and figure out what's going on. But most of the time I am just a laid back, funny guy who is very ambiguous when it comes to money - I would NEVER want that to be the reason a woman would be interested in me, so when she finds out she may not be as upset to find I require a pre-nup. because I gave her no false hopes of money when we met.I agree with who ever said marriage is not something to walk into lightly. I am not a super religous man, but I am spirtual and wouldn't take marriage lightly(getting into it or during it).
This has been an interesting discussion, I've enjoyed reading other's thoughts about this.
07-27-2005, 07:23 PM
#118
Suzuka Master
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Originally Posted by crb-silver-tl
Beetroot:
For clarification, it is not the federal government that issues marriage licenses, it is your state government that does that. But that is not really important to your question. I will give you my perspective.
Many people hold the view that marriage is just a piece of paper and if the couple is truly committed to each other, then the state's sanctioning of it is not important. Perhaps this is so. I look at it from a religious view. Marriage binds us together in a way that merely living together and promising each other to never part cannot. In the Catholic church, marriage is the only sacrament that is not conferred upon you by a priest. You and the woman confer the sacrament upon each other. The priest is merely there as a witness. At the moment you say that vow, God himself binds you together. That is why it is stressed that marriage cannot be entered into lightly but reverently, with deep contemplation.
I realize fully that not everyone shares this view. We are all different and have our own views. Yours is no less valid than anyone elses. However, for me, marriage, family and love are the ties that bind us all together as humans. That makes the piece of paper very valuable to me.
Chris
For clarification, it is not the federal government that issues marriage licenses, it is your state government that does that. But that is not really important to your question. I will give you my perspective.
Many people hold the view that marriage is just a piece of paper and if the couple is truly committed to each other, then the state's sanctioning of it is not important. Perhaps this is so. I look at it from a religious view. Marriage binds us together in a way that merely living together and promising each other to never part cannot. In the Catholic church, marriage is the only sacrament that is not conferred upon you by a priest. You and the woman confer the sacrament upon each other. The priest is merely there as a witness. At the moment you say that vow, God himself binds you together. That is why it is stressed that marriage cannot be entered into lightly but reverently, with deep contemplation.
I realize fully that not everyone shares this view. We are all different and have our own views. Yours is no less valid than anyone elses. However, for me, marriage, family and love are the ties that bind us all together as humans. That makes the piece of paper very valuable to me.
Chris
You know what, I am Catholic, and although I hadn't been able to bring that into the equation earlier (since we got married in Vegas and thus have not had the sacrament yet - that comes next year when we move back in together)... but I like to think that God is smiling at us, especially since we're no longer living in sin.
Well, technically, according to the Catholic perspective, we are, but since we live 3000 miles apart, it's not as frequent of an occurrence.
Which brings me to answering SGT's question: I moved to VA in January for work, we got married in May, and I'm trying to move back as soon as possible, but it won't be for another few months at least, because I still have some things I need to take care of out here. But we see each other a couple times a month (he just left here after spending 2 whole weeks with me after my surgery), we talk all day long (not just on AZ, but email, otp, text messages, etc), so we're basically in constant contact.
Just sucks sleeping alone.
07-27-2005, 07:26 PM
#119
teh Senior Instigator
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Originally Posted by Caliadria
Just sucks sleeping alone.
it's awesome, i no longer wake up w/ bruises!!!
07-27-2005, 10:41 PM
#120
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Jeez, go away for a few hours and this thread turns philosophical........
marriage used to be a straightforward concept of connubial union to reproduce kids and establish a social and economic unit - dad worked, mom maintained a household and raised the kids, and the culture reproduced. Concepts of romantic love as the predominate force for marrying are a relatively new phenominum - and the concept of marrying solely for romantic love is a very new concept, however idealized it might have been during the Victorian era. And - of course, love and sex were entirely separated, the concept of fidelity being essentially a Victorian concept at best. Rich men kept mistresses, rich women had affairs with younger men seeking access to social and economic circles...... and so long as it was discreet, no one gave a damn until Queen Victoria got all moral.......
For whatever it's worth, Margaret Mead, one of our era's most compelling social anthropologists, argued that the natural progression of life really called for three or even four long-term relationships, one for expressing youthful sexual exhuberence, one for bearing children, one for one's middle years and one for companionship in one's later years. She had an assortment of husbands, and, I believe, a rather racy private life well outside the conventional boundaries...... In her concept, divorce was not a social error, but simply the termination of the dangling threads of one relationship so that another phase of one's life could begin. That concept flies in the face of classic theology from most Judeo_Christian organized religions, where the breakup of the marriage destroys the ability of the family to sustain, and the family to support the church in its endeavours. So divorce has had, classically, a deep sense of shame attached to the concept of "failure" as two people move apart.
Mead's concept of serial marriages leaves out, of course, the "skunk factor" - the drunken bum, the cheating wife, the conniving grifter, that appear in both genders, and this thread could go on for years and not cover all of the horror stories out there; a fair array have been summarized on this site, one of them being one of mine, the golddigger that married my late father in law; he did not do a pre-nup, but did leave a rather crafty will.
So the question as to what marriage is in our modern culture is pretty compelling. Beetroot claims it is a nice artifice for tax purposes, but not fundamental to his sense of well-being or stability in a relationship,a nd for CL and Caladria, their marriage makes a difference, notwithstanding that getting married didn'd do squat to resove the issues of geography - they simply wanted to be in a marital state with each other. That's quite a spread. Tireguy wants to protect his assets, no matter who or when he meets ms right, and tends, from his language, to assume that ms right will have fewer assets than he... so marriage takes on economic overtones, even yet, well beyond the day when marriages between wealthy families were first and foremost an economic and political statement and everyone else could rut in the gutter.....
I never expected to be married, and as a casual theist within the more than passingly liberal strains of Unitariansim, I hardly thought it would matter that it be a theologic service. However, it turned out for me, that was the case........For me, the act of being married is a rather quixotic and quirky committment to the concept of hope and a profound belief in the sharing of love within a recognized endorsement. Frankly, the nature and depth of my marriage with my wife has changed over the nearly two decades, and I look forward to where it will take us both next. It turns out my wife is my soulmate, a concept that is rather shocking when I look at it directly, having discovered that rather after the initial passions had supported our union. Would we have an intense and caring relationship without the piece of paper and the ceremony in a Unitarian chapel most noted in Philly for having been the platform for Hanoi Jane? Not for me, and not, at the risk of speaking for her, for her. For each of us, it was important to make a committment of presence to each other. I will note that the legal bonds that tie us together were essential for me during the period of time that I assume absolute authority for her care and her finances during her health crisis, which is why I feel as strongly as I do about gay marriage/civil union - that legal authority to speak on behalf of one's spouse allowed me to be a patient advocate for my wife with massive legal (and ethical)standing. The money - we have his, hers and ours checkbooks and investment accounts, and we have managed our shared resources variously. Her will establishes a trust that guarantees that the principal of her estate, likely to be substantially larger than mine, will go intact to her son, a will that I assisted her in framing.
So - I guess the reasons for getting married in a culture where there is (relative) economic parity between men and women (yes, I know men make more, but this is no longer the Victorian era where women had no legal standing) and where our egalitarian culture makes marriage for social, political and economic gain a rather chancy exercise (though many still do it for those reasons). So more than ever, I guess we make our own choices. For me, I cannot imagine being married to anyone else but my soulmate.....
marriage used to be a straightforward concept of connubial union to reproduce kids and establish a social and economic unit - dad worked, mom maintained a household and raised the kids, and the culture reproduced. Concepts of romantic love as the predominate force for marrying are a relatively new phenominum - and the concept of marrying solely for romantic love is a very new concept, however idealized it might have been during the Victorian era. And - of course, love and sex were entirely separated, the concept of fidelity being essentially a Victorian concept at best. Rich men kept mistresses, rich women had affairs with younger men seeking access to social and economic circles...... and so long as it was discreet, no one gave a damn until Queen Victoria got all moral.......
For whatever it's worth, Margaret Mead, one of our era's most compelling social anthropologists, argued that the natural progression of life really called for three or even four long-term relationships, one for expressing youthful sexual exhuberence, one for bearing children, one for one's middle years and one for companionship in one's later years. She had an assortment of husbands, and, I believe, a rather racy private life well outside the conventional boundaries...... In her concept, divorce was not a social error, but simply the termination of the dangling threads of one relationship so that another phase of one's life could begin. That concept flies in the face of classic theology from most Judeo_Christian organized religions, where the breakup of the marriage destroys the ability of the family to sustain, and the family to support the church in its endeavours. So divorce has had, classically, a deep sense of shame attached to the concept of "failure" as two people move apart.
Mead's concept of serial marriages leaves out, of course, the "skunk factor" - the drunken bum, the cheating wife, the conniving grifter, that appear in both genders, and this thread could go on for years and not cover all of the horror stories out there; a fair array have been summarized on this site, one of them being one of mine, the golddigger that married my late father in law; he did not do a pre-nup, but did leave a rather crafty will.
So the question as to what marriage is in our modern culture is pretty compelling. Beetroot claims it is a nice artifice for tax purposes, but not fundamental to his sense of well-being or stability in a relationship,a nd for CL and Caladria, their marriage makes a difference, notwithstanding that getting married didn'd do squat to resove the issues of geography - they simply wanted to be in a marital state with each other. That's quite a spread. Tireguy wants to protect his assets, no matter who or when he meets ms right, and tends, from his language, to assume that ms right will have fewer assets than he... so marriage takes on economic overtones, even yet, well beyond the day when marriages between wealthy families were first and foremost an economic and political statement and everyone else could rut in the gutter.....
I never expected to be married, and as a casual theist within the more than passingly liberal strains of Unitariansim, I hardly thought it would matter that it be a theologic service. However, it turned out for me, that was the case........For me, the act of being married is a rather quixotic and quirky committment to the concept of hope and a profound belief in the sharing of love within a recognized endorsement. Frankly, the nature and depth of my marriage with my wife has changed over the nearly two decades, and I look forward to where it will take us both next. It turns out my wife is my soulmate, a concept that is rather shocking when I look at it directly, having discovered that rather after the initial passions had supported our union. Would we have an intense and caring relationship without the piece of paper and the ceremony in a Unitarian chapel most noted in Philly for having been the platform for Hanoi Jane? Not for me, and not, at the risk of speaking for her, for her. For each of us, it was important to make a committment of presence to each other. I will note that the legal bonds that tie us together were essential for me during the period of time that I assume absolute authority for her care and her finances during her health crisis, which is why I feel as strongly as I do about gay marriage/civil union - that legal authority to speak on behalf of one's spouse allowed me to be a patient advocate for my wife with massive legal (and ethical)standing. The money - we have his, hers and ours checkbooks and investment accounts, and we have managed our shared resources variously. Her will establishes a trust that guarantees that the principal of her estate, likely to be substantially larger than mine, will go intact to her son, a will that I assisted her in framing.
So - I guess the reasons for getting married in a culture where there is (relative) economic parity between men and women (yes, I know men make more, but this is no longer the Victorian era where women had no legal standing) and where our egalitarian culture makes marriage for social, political and economic gain a rather chancy exercise (though many still do it for those reasons). So more than ever, I guess we make our own choices. For me, I cannot imagine being married to anyone else but my soulmate.....