Will Acura Thrive and grow or slowly die out?
11-29-2008, 11:55 PM
#41
Drifting
11-30-2008, 12:00 AM
#42
Safety Car
you cant compare 20 years of poor management decisions and US labor union dilemmas to controversial design (Acura).
this is not debatable...thread should be closed, bottom line.
this is not debatable...thread should be closed, bottom line.
11-30-2008, 12:15 AM
#43
Drifting
Regardless, If this thread had a answer it would be "who knows?" The entire global economy is comparable to what would happen to Acura. That being, I guess we will see. However I too believe Honda is not going down anytime soon. GM on the other hand
but then we might as well move this to the money and investing /politics forum, really shouldnt even be here.
11-30-2008, 12:30 AM
#44
Safety Car
and if stateside labor unions restructurize (see Romneys proposal) it could detmernine that foreign stateside plants would no longer be profitable, and the act of importing foriegn cars to the states will return to the common practice it once had.
sadly enough, there are many options for foriegn manufacturers to propose. another reason why the stuggle og the Big 3 should, could, and will, be wiped out.
since henry ford invented the car before the gloabl economy existed, we continue to devote outselves to a heritage, and outdated business.
but if an american invented textiles, that doesnt neccessarily mean that we are in better grounds to produce textiles in the US than mexico. we really need to cut our losses, and focus on stateside labor unions and foriegn manufacturing plants on US soil. that's is step one. import tarrifs are too difficult to alter. once we find a better way to structure and educate workers in foreign plats based on US soil, then we will come to a closure on this topic. in terms of using newly acquired labor union regulations for the Big 3 workers- it COULD work, but is not as promising
sadly enough, there are many options for foriegn manufacturers to propose. another reason why the stuggle og the Big 3 should, could, and will, be wiped out.
since henry ford invented the car before the gloabl economy existed, we continue to devote outselves to a heritage, and outdated business.
but if an american invented textiles, that doesnt neccessarily mean that we are in better grounds to produce textiles in the US than mexico. we really need to cut our losses, and focus on stateside labor unions and foriegn manufacturing plants on US soil. that's is step one. import tarrifs are too difficult to alter. once we find a better way to structure and educate workers in foreign plats based on US soil, then we will come to a closure on this topic. in terms of using newly acquired labor union regulations for the Big 3 workers- it COULD work, but is not as promising
Last edited by ThermonMermon; 11-30-2008 at 12:34 AM.
11-30-2008, 12:41 AM
#45
Safety Car
the poilitcal ideas of restructuring the US labor unions is quite radical right now, and "throw around idea," obvioulsy not a true quantitative model.
however, as the Big 3 continue to stuggle, these attempts could be quickly acceptable.
i suspect that 1 of the big 3 will fail. the other two will receive government bailout. this may not work if the bailout is implements by execs. the real problems lies in the volume of the masses - the structure of the labor union wages. FIX THIS FIRST!
however, as the Big 3 continue to stuggle, these attempts could be quickly acceptable.
i suspect that 1 of the big 3 will fail. the other two will receive government bailout. this may not work if the bailout is implements by execs. the real problems lies in the volume of the masses - the structure of the labor union wages. FIX THIS FIRST!
11-30-2008, 04:08 AM
#46
Someday, an RS6 Avant+
Funny, the Honda dealers here really go out of their way, and ensure their customers are happy. That means new, used, and the service department. I know, I know, someone will say Japan is notorious for customer service. While that may be true, the Toyota and Nissan guys are not quite as good once you have left the showroom with a new or used one.
I really do miss my 2G Saber (TL), but I wanted a car that involved the driver quite a bit more. And AWD is a great selling point. I applaud Honda / Acura for getting the powertrain right. now they just need to get the exterior in shape and all will be well. Honda and Acura will survive.
One last thought: Now that I have a Subaru, those dealers are really good, and have a lot of faith in their product. I've been to the three big dealers on island, and their employees drive Subaru. That says something to me.
I really do miss my 2G Saber (TL), but I wanted a car that involved the driver quite a bit more. And AWD is a great selling point. I applaud Honda / Acura for getting the powertrain right. now they just need to get the exterior in shape and all will be well. Honda and Acura will survive.
One last thought: Now that I have a Subaru, those dealers are really good, and have a lot of faith in their product. I've been to the three big dealers on island, and their employees drive Subaru. That says something to me.
11-30-2008, 03:20 PM
#47
Honda's build quality is decent... but not great. Even the NSX is middle of the pack when compared to its peers. Even honda motorcycles are middle of the road... typically the lowest in HP in any shoot out. Fairly reliable, but not exciting. I used to ride a Honda dirt bike then moved to a KTM and could not believe the difference.
So my point is only that in order to do well in business you need to excell at something... a point of differentiation...at the moment I am having a hard time seeing what Honda excels at. I have been driving Hondas since 1993 when I bought a new Integra... it was great.. then a Honda coupe (boring), then a CL-s auto (crapped out tranny) then a CL-S 6MT (wow)and finally the 07 TL-S (wife's car). I doubt that I will buy another Honda product as they are just too "vanilla". I think that as a company they have peaked. If there are enough people like me who have become disenchanted with Honda, their sales will decline.
So my point is only that in order to do well in business you need to excell at something... a point of differentiation...at the moment I am having a hard time seeing what Honda excels at. I have been driving Hondas since 1993 when I bought a new Integra... it was great.. then a Honda coupe (boring), then a CL-s auto (crapped out tranny) then a CL-S 6MT (wow)and finally the 07 TL-S (wife's car). I doubt that I will buy another Honda product as they are just too "vanilla". I think that as a company they have peaked. If there are enough people like me who have become disenchanted with Honda, their sales will decline.
you're confused
Honda's build quality and reliability are better that most others...........they are well divirsified. They are the LARGEST engine manufacturer in the world........
you think an integra is great? all it was is a hopped up civic and a theft magnet.........but hey they suckered you in............
when the trans on my cl-s crapped out at 71K it was replaced free of charge......name one other company that would warranty a transmission to 100K.....
11-30-2008, 03:34 PM
#48
Drifting
Honda's build quality is decent... but not great. Even the NSX is middle of the pack when compared to its peers. Even honda motorcycles are middle of the road... typically the lowest in HP in any shoot out. Fairly reliable, but not exciting. I used to ride a Honda dirt bike then moved to a KTM and could not believe the difference.
So my point is only that in order to do well in business you need to excell at something... a point of differentiation...at the moment I am having a hard time seeing what Honda excels at. I have been driving Hondas since 1993 when I bought a new Integra... it was great.. then a Honda coupe (boring), then a CL-s auto (crapped out tranny) then a CL-S 6MT (wow)and finally the 07 TL-S (wife's car). I doubt that I will buy another Honda product as they are just too "vanilla". I think that as a company they have peaked. If there are enough people like me who have become disenchanted with Honda, their sales will decline.
So my point is only that in order to do well in business you need to excell at something... a point of differentiation...at the moment I am having a hard time seeing what Honda excels at. I have been driving Hondas since 1993 when I bought a new Integra... it was great.. then a Honda coupe (boring), then a CL-s auto (crapped out tranny) then a CL-S 6MT (wow)and finally the 07 TL-S (wife's car). I doubt that I will buy another Honda product as they are just too "vanilla". I think that as a company they have peaked. If there are enough people like me who have become disenchanted with Honda, their sales will decline.
you're confused
Honda's build quality and reliability are better that most others...........they are well divirsified. They are the LARGEST engine manufacturer in the world........
you think an integra is great? all it was is a hopped up civic and a theft magnet.........but hey they suckered you in............
when the trans on my cl-s crapped out at 71K it was replaced free of charge......name one other company that would warranty a transmission to 100K.....
Honda's build quality and reliability are better that most others...........they are well divirsified. They are the LARGEST engine manufacturer in the world........
you think an integra is great? all it was is a hopped up civic and a theft magnet.........but hey they suckered you in............
when the trans on my cl-s crapped out at 71K it was replaced free of charge......name one other company that would warranty a transmission to 100K.....
I'd add, if you think Hondas aren't exciting why would ya keep buying them since 1993? Go drive a Toyota and tell me how exciting they are 
or a chevy. Come on, I'd actually say out of all my cars over the years only the Hondas/Acuras really connected with me and were the only cars that I even named. Now yeah, maybe this seems sad to some, but to say Hondas are boring is just flat out wrong. Many of my past cars, were cars and that's it, transportation. Hondas actually have a soul imho
11-30-2008, 04:47 PM
#49
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you're confused
Honda's build quality and reliability are better that most others...........they are well divirsified. They are the LARGEST engine manufacturer in the world........
you think an integra is great? all it was is a hopped up civic and a theft magnet.........but hey they suckered you in............
when the trans on my cl-s crapped out at 71K it was replaced free of charge......name one other company that would warranty a transmission to 100K.....
Honda's build quality and reliability are better that most others...........they are well divirsified. They are the LARGEST engine manufacturer in the world........
you think an integra is great? all it was is a hopped up civic and a theft magnet.........but hey they suckered you in............
when the trans on my cl-s crapped out at 71K it was replaced free of charge......name one other company that would warranty a transmission to 100K.....
I said the Integra WAS great. In 1993 it was way more fun than the Mazda I had before. It got great gas mileage and was quick, and it looked good. I moved up the Honda line and loved the 01 CLS, but had the transmission fail at 113,000 Km. Acura replaced it with a rebuilt (not new) transmission, and given the high failure rate of replacement transmissions I decided I just could not trust the car anymore. Honda decided to replace trannys as a business decisions rather than fix the problem. Some bean counter probably decided it was cheaper to do that. The transmission fault was across the entire Honda product line… Accords, TL, CL, MDX… for four model years, from 2000–2003. Name another company that continues to put transmissions out there that they know are made of glass year after year. Of course they had to replace them… they were also facing a class action suit. I switched to a CL 6MT in 2003 because I loved the car… I just hated the unreliability of the 5AT. The resale value of CLs is terrible… why do you think that is?
The tranny was not the only weak point in the CL. I also did not realize how bad my brakes in the CL were till we got the 07 TLS. I replaced the warped rotors twice… finally going to cross drilled and slotted rotors, but the brakes still suck. Who in their right mind puts single piston caliper brakes on a sporty car? You can get going fast but what about stopping?
And finally there was the lovely stock Blows 6 CD head unit that I had to have replaced on both CLs that I owned as it would intermittently decide not to play or eject CDs. Acura had a secret replacement plan for this as well… only it cost $200 for the exchange.
Please don’t get me wrong… I am not dumping on Acura because I now drive an Infiniti. I still love the 07 TL-S in the family. It is very quick, the voice commands beat the shit out of the G, and it looks great (can’t say that about the 09’s).
11-30-2008, 05:51 PM
#50
Punk Rocker
Acura may have made some crazy decisions as of late but I don't expect them to go anywhere. They have very solid management and a loyal following.....
11-30-2008, 05:55 PM
#51
I've owned Acura since 1994. A GSR and then CL-S 6speed. Acura currently offers no car I have any interest in. Their current designs are rediculous IMO.
I think they are going in the wrong direction. If I had to replace my CL-S 6speed I would drive an Infinit G37, Nissan Z, and BMW 3. Maybe an Audi.
I too, have recently had a very disappointing experience at my dealership. They now change $130 per hour for labor and they hacked up my car. So, I'm done with Acura.
I think they are going in the wrong direction. If I had to replace my CL-S 6speed I would drive an Infinit G37, Nissan Z, and BMW 3. Maybe an Audi.
I too, have recently had a very disappointing experience at my dealership. They now change $130 per hour for labor and they hacked up my car. So, I'm done with Acura.
11-30-2008, 06:48 PM
#52
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Acura has bad customer service or their dealers? My local Acura dealer has been outstanding everytime i go since 1996!
They have been listening to us with the new TL. We all bitched how Acuras were FWD with no AWD option and now they gave it to us. All car sales are slow right now even new models. So its hard to say if the TL is a flop or if its just the economy. My guess is the economy because people still love their value luxury.
They have been listening to us with the new TL. We all bitched how Acuras were FWD with no AWD option and now they gave it to us. All car sales are slow right now even new models. So its hard to say if the TL is a flop or if its just the economy. My guess is the economy because people still love their value luxury.
11-30-2008, 09:37 PM
#53
OK... well I can clearly see that I am touching a nerve here. My intent is not to offend current Acura owners... I still am one.
I said the Integra WAS great. In 1993 it was way more fun than the Mazda I had before. It got great gas mileage and was quick, and it looked good. I moved up the Honda line and loved the 01 CLS, but had the transmission fail at 113,000 Km. Acura replaced it with a rebuilt (not new) transmission, and given the high failure rate of replacement transmissions I decided I just could not trust the car anymore. Honda decided to replace trannys as a business decisions rather than fix the problem. Some bean counter probably decided it was cheaper to do that. The transmission fault was across the entire Honda product line… Accords, TL, CL, MDX… for four model years, from 2000–2003. Name another company that continues to put transmissions out there that they know are made of glass year after year. Of course they had to replace them… they were also facing a class action suit. I switched to a CL 6MT in 2003 because I loved the car… I just hated the unreliability of the 5AT. The resale value of CLs is terrible… why do you think that is?
The tranny was not the only weak point in the CL. I also did not realize how bad my brakes in the CL were till we got the 07 TLS. I replaced the warped rotors twice… finally going to cross drilled and slotted rotors, but the brakes still suck. Who in their right mind puts single piston caliper brakes on a sporty car? You can get going fast but what about stopping?
And finally there was the lovely stock Blows 6 CD head unit that I had to have replaced on both CLs that I owned as it would intermittently decide not to play or eject CDs. Acura had a secret replacement plan for this as well… only it cost $200 for the exchange.
Please don’t get me wrong… I am not dumping on Acura because I now drive an Infiniti. I still love the 07 TL-S in the family. It is very quick, the voice commands beat the shit out of the G, and it looks great (can’t say that about the 09’s).
I said the Integra WAS great. In 1993 it was way more fun than the Mazda I had before. It got great gas mileage and was quick, and it looked good. I moved up the Honda line and loved the 01 CLS, but had the transmission fail at 113,000 Km. Acura replaced it with a rebuilt (not new) transmission, and given the high failure rate of replacement transmissions I decided I just could not trust the car anymore. Honda decided to replace trannys as a business decisions rather than fix the problem. Some bean counter probably decided it was cheaper to do that. The transmission fault was across the entire Honda product line… Accords, TL, CL, MDX… for four model years, from 2000–2003. Name another company that continues to put transmissions out there that they know are made of glass year after year. Of course they had to replace them… they were also facing a class action suit. I switched to a CL 6MT in 2003 because I loved the car… I just hated the unreliability of the 5AT. The resale value of CLs is terrible… why do you think that is?
The tranny was not the only weak point in the CL. I also did not realize how bad my brakes in the CL were till we got the 07 TLS. I replaced the warped rotors twice… finally going to cross drilled and slotted rotors, but the brakes still suck. Who in their right mind puts single piston caliper brakes on a sporty car? You can get going fast but what about stopping?
And finally there was the lovely stock Blows 6 CD head unit that I had to have replaced on both CLs that I owned as it would intermittently decide not to play or eject CDs. Acura had a secret replacement plan for this as well… only it cost $200 for the exchange.
Please don’t get me wrong… I am not dumping on Acura because I now drive an Infiniti. I still love the 07 TL-S in the family. It is very quick, the voice commands beat the shit out of the G, and it looks great (can’t say that about the 09’s).
How about GM with the turbohydromatic 200 4R
How about Ford with the AXOD with cross crossed cooling lines, aluminum forward clutch?
How about GM and their gasket failures due to crappy dexcool coolant?
How about Ford with their 3.8L failures (head gasket)?
How about Chrysler with their A/C problems?
How about Ford with their crappy subframe mounts on taurus and sables?
How about GM and their 3.8L piston slap?
How about GM and their quad 4?
How about Ford with woefully undersized brakes on a Taurus and Sable so they could fit in 14" steelies?
How about Ford and their 3.4L SHO V8 that would eat cams?
point I am trying to make is you said Honda is only average and I am telling that compared to most other car makers, they are way above average.....in build quality and customer service........
11-30-2008, 10:02 PM
#54
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Audi or anyone else that uses the same basic trans design......try getting any goodwill after warranty expires, let alone at 100K miles....
How about GM with the turbohydromatic 200 4R
How about Ford with the AXOD with cross crossed cooling lines, aluminum forward clutch?
How about GM and their gasket failures due to crappy dexcool coolant?
How about Ford with their 3.8L failures (head gasket)?
How about Chrysler with their A/C problems?
How about Ford with their crappy subframe mounts on taurus and sables?
How about GM and their 3.8L piston slap?
How about GM and their quad 4?
How about Ford with woefully undersized brakes on a Taurus and Sable so they could fit in 14" steelies?
How about Ford and their 3.4L SHO V8 that would eat cams?
point I am trying to make is you said Honda is only average and I am telling that compared to most other car makers, they are way above average.....in build quality and customer service........
How about GM with the turbohydromatic 200 4R
How about Ford with the AXOD with cross crossed cooling lines, aluminum forward clutch?
How about GM and their gasket failures due to crappy dexcool coolant?
How about Ford with their 3.8L failures (head gasket)?
How about Chrysler with their A/C problems?
How about Ford with their crappy subframe mounts on taurus and sables?
How about GM and their 3.8L piston slap?
How about GM and their quad 4?
How about Ford with woefully undersized brakes on a Taurus and Sable so they could fit in 14" steelies?
How about Ford and their 3.4L SHO V8 that would eat cams?
point I am trying to make is you said Honda is only average and I am telling that compared to most other car makers, they are way above average.....in build quality and customer service........
Compare the Acura to Lexus or Infiniti or 3 series bimmers and then you have a valid comparison. Honda used to lead the pack in innovation based on their formula 1 experience but they have lost their way big time. I won't be buying another.
I am also done with this stupid argument.
11-30-2008, 10:27 PM
#55
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I have to be honest here.
What got me into Acura brand isn't because it's the "premium" brand of Honda. But how well and nice the Acura Type R was built. I also love Acura TL 3rd gen, I think despite all the problems, it is by far the best car ever made and sexier car in the world.
I am not one to buy the 1st year model, I will wait a few year 'till they fix all the bugs that will happen in the AWD model. I think the 4th gen looks ugly but I can overlook it because it has so much technology in it.
What got me into Acura brand isn't because it's the "premium" brand of Honda. But how well and nice the Acura Type R was built. I also love Acura TL 3rd gen, I think despite all the problems, it is by far the best car ever made and sexier car in the world.
I am not one to buy the 1st year model, I will wait a few year 'till they fix all the bugs that will happen in the AWD model. I think the 4th gen looks ugly but I can overlook it because it has so much technology in it.
12-01-2008, 02:02 AM
#56
I'm surprised that so many are surprised by the level of service at Acura dealers. Nothing astounding to me.... visit a Lexus dealership, the Stevens Creek Lexus blows Stevens Creek Acura away.... SC Lexus has multiple levels, with an elevator, floors lined with marble, 42"+ flat panels near every waiting area, FREE fully stocked ice cold bottled drinks and canned sodas, plush leather sofas, and they bend over backwards to your every will. Some Lexus dealerships even have beauty salons and massage parlors.... not that it matters to me, but my sister sure was impressed. Impressed enough with not only the product alone but also with the service, to the point that her next car definitely won't be an Acura. In fact, the 2G TL-S in our garage is now her beater. 
most companies wouldn't..... because most companies don't have disastrous widespread transmission failures as that! I'll put it simply.... you're lucky you're not one of the many who have gotten their transmissions replaced 2, 3 or 4 times before. I doubt you'd be as pleased, free service or not...
when the trans on my cl-s crapped out at 71K it was replaced free of charge......
name one other company that would warranty a transmission to 100K.....
12-01-2008, 02:42 PM
#57
Apples and oranges comparison. Who in their right mind would compare Japanese to NA auto makers? If you want to equate your Taurus to a CL be my guest. And let's limit the examples to the recent past. I remember a turbo 200 on my 77 Pontaic. I think that was also when a Pentium 286 was a blindingly fast processor.
Compare the Acura to Lexus or Infiniti or 3 series bimmers and then you have a valid comparison. Honda used to lead the pack in innovation based on their formula 1 experience but they have lost their way big time. I won't be buying another.
I am also done with this stupid argument.
Compare the Acura to Lexus or Infiniti or 3 series bimmers and then you have a valid comparison. Honda used to lead the pack in innovation based on their formula 1 experience but they have lost their way big time. I won't be buying another.
I am also done with this stupid argument.
again i ask you, would lexus or infinity good will something way pasy warranty like honda?
and btw Lexus is leaps and bounds above acura........they always have been......you need to back up your statements with facts so lets try this one on for size:
in 1977 the processor in use was a 8080 (or earlier variants / product lines) as the x86 processors did not make their debut until June 1978 and really didn't make it main stream until the IBM PC came to the market august 1981
you said honda is average, i said you are wrong.............
12-02-2008, 07:04 AM
#58
Oh NO, NOT AGAIN.....SOMEONE PLEASE MAKE HIM STOP!!!! Oh sorry, I had a flashback to a time in my childhood when my mom owned an old Oldsmobile Cutlass Calais with that horrible engine in it. Whew, that was close. I think I will go for a drive in my TL and try to forget about that.
12-02-2008, 08:09 AM
#59
Safety Car
again i ask you, would lexus or infinity good will something way pasy warranty like honda?
and btw Lexus is leaps and bounds above acura........they always have been......you need to back up your statements with facts so lets try this one on for size:
in 1977 the processor in use was a 8080 (or earlier variants / product lines) as the x86 processors did not make their debut until June 1978 and really didn't make it main stream until the IBM PC came to the market august 1981
you said honda is average, i said you are wrong.............
and btw Lexus is leaps and bounds above acura........they always have been......you need to back up your statements with facts so lets try this one on for size:
in 1977 the processor in use was a 8080 (or earlier variants / product lines) as the x86 processors did not make their debut until June 1978 and really didn't make it main stream until the IBM PC came to the market august 1981
you said honda is average, i said you are wrong.............
jesus. this post might of just made my day.
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