BLKURA

99 VW Bug question mech question.

I posted this question on the VW forums but they don't get very much volume and isn't really VW specific I suppose.

Last week my wifes beetle began running rough and the CEL came on. She stopped at autozone to have the run the codes on it. Code PO341(Cam) Normally I'd do the work but I'm working long hours at work, so I was forced to take it to a local shop. Symptoms are, no power, rough idle, ect... The shop owner called my wife two days later saying they found a leak on the Exhaust Manifold, which is very rare. They gave us a qoute of $850 and wanted permisson to replace stating they felt it was "Most Likely" the cause of are issues. I told them to go ahead and replace it, but I wanted them to keep the old manifold for my personal inspection.

They ordered the part and replaced it, only to find the problem still exsists. Over the weekend I did some research of my own. From what I've found, a leak in the exhaust wouldn't throw this code. However, I'm not a mech. They also replaced the Cam sensor, which also didn't fix the problem. They called us today and told us the car was ready and they don't have the resources to further solve the issues. Now, this is a full service shop and the Mech I talked to sounded like a young guy who didn't know what he was talking about. The owner who is the Mech father was unable to talk at the time.

I told him, I wouldn't be paying for the Sensor or the labor on it. If he needed to take it off, that's fine. It sounded like he just assumed it was the sensor and I called him on it by asking if he tested it. He said "yes", a pin point test, it came back faulty.

I understand how difficult these can be to solve, however I don't feel I should have to pay for something that didn't fix the problem when they are assuming....

Can a leak in the Exhaust manifold cause the PO341 code first of all and am I right for feeling I shouldn't have to pay for this?

Crazy Bimmer

Is this a 1.8t? Have you checked the coilpacks?

But that would throw a misfire code.. so not sure.

Searched for the code and heres what came up. Sounds like a timing issue?
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4132146
http://www.justanswer.com/questions/...ot-start-until

This you?
http://www.newbeetle.org/forums/showthread.php?t=34109

BLKURA

2.0 and it has not dis I believe.

teranfon

If a car has an exhaust leak it will often effect the O2 sensor. From my own personal experience, it is unlikely a minute exhaust leak would affect the cam sensor to any real capacity.

The following post is a post begun by LMTSX with a similar problem, and a description how an exhaust leak (almost anywhere on a car) will affect the O2 sensor and the information it sends back to the ECU. Depending on the voltage output of the O2 sensor, it will in some cases cause a car to run poorly as it isn't correctly diagnosing the problem and taking the appropriate corrective actions.

https://acurazine.com/forums/car-talk-5/2004-sebring-cel-712067/

Hope it helps.


Terry

BLKURA

Thanks for the link. I understand how the 02 sensor and ECU work. I actually had to tell this mech how it works! He said with the leak in the manifold it wouldn't set off a 02 sensor code because it adjust lean vs rich. So it wouldn't detect it.

When you say minute? How about a large leak?

I guess I really only have two questions as I'v said above.

Tech do I have a legit complaint about being charged for having to pay for both part and for labor? The exhaust leak question has already been given. Which I already knew, just needed a confirmation from someone more knowledgable then I.

Thanks

Don

teranfon

Hi Don

Any leak could have a detrimental effect, especially in the exhaust manifold. And it WILL definitely have an influence on the O2 sensor. As soon as a tiny bit of oxygen enters the exhaust stream it will immediately cause the sensor to lower it's voltage output as it incorrectly senses a lean condition. And it will DEFINITELY throw a code. The tech should have known this.

Personally, I would not pay for a repair that hasn't corrected the problem. I'm not entirely sure of the legalities, but from my understanding you are paying for the shop to correctly diagnose and correct a problem. If they haven't.....................


Terry

BLKURA

Sure I understand what you're saying. However, no 02 sensor code went off, just the camshaft sensor. Unfortunetly I'm commuting 3 hours per day and leave the house at 6:30 in the morning. I'm not able to personally pick the car up till Fri. The shop is only a few blocks from my house which really drives me crazy and my wife plans on going down first thing tomorrow. She will not give them a hard time about.