Why do you think FWD isn't 'luxury'
09-12-2008, 03:50 PM
#41
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2007
Age: 45
Posts: 2,573
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I get some degree of torque steer with the TSX every time I accelerate hard from a dead stop. Maybe it's my fault for dropping the clutch too fast, but if it were a RWD vehicle this wouldn't be an issue and I could drop the clutch as I saw fit. This whole ordeal is quite uncomfortable to me.
Oh, great, thanks-- like we don't have enough of those kinds of posts in Ramblings already?? 
09-12-2008, 05:33 PM
#43
The sizzle in the Steak
09-12-2008, 09:10 PM
#44
There's a reason you almost never see a RWD economy car anymore. FWD is too closely associated with efficiency and cost cutting...the exact characteristics a luxury car isnt.
09-12-2008, 09:14 PM
#45
On a serious note, I don't really feel it and I push the car pretty hard. Unless you WOT from a dead stop, then it might move a tiny bit but who does that? From a roll, its non-existent. Some companies know how to deal with it (VW/Audi/Honda/Acura)...others, not so much. Drive a Maxima if you want to know what torque steer is.
09-12-2008, 09:33 PM
#46
Senior Moderator
good tires FTW with torque steer.... I rarely get torque steer after getting some new tires, and that to is with a power launch... Also with RWD your back end slides out side to side and sends you out of control...
One dude had a signature saying something along the lines of FWD is how fast you hit the wall with the front of your car, RWD is how fast you hit the wall with the back of your car, HP is how fast you hit the wall and Torque is how far you take the wall with you...
One dude had a signature saying something along the lines of FWD is how fast you hit the wall with the front of your car, RWD is how fast you hit the wall with the back of your car, HP is how fast you hit the wall and Torque is how far you take the wall with you...
09-12-2008, 09:34 PM
#47
Manual transmission FWD cars tend to have more torque steer than automatics.... I actually don't mind torque steer that much, but I honestly don't know why FWD isn't usually considered luxury. I mean, you can't make an S-Class FWD because that would have some insane torque steer, but its safer to drive. I would think most people who buy luxury cars aren't exactly in it for the performance, and thus may not know much about RWD period, let alone correcting for when the tail steps out.
People are easily influenced by the media and tend to overanalyze things, like how Loseit mentioned that people associated FWD with economy cars. It is strange though.... I doubt the average E-Class owner gives a crap whether their car was FWD or RWD. I'd even venture to say that a good portion of them don't even know what layout their car is.
People are easily influenced by the media and tend to overanalyze things, like how Loseit mentioned that people associated FWD with economy cars. It is strange though.... I doubt the average E-Class owner gives a crap whether their car was FWD or RWD. I'd even venture to say that a good portion of them don't even know what layout their car is.
09-12-2008, 10:47 PM
#48
09-13-2008, 02:11 AM
#49
TL-S izdashiznittt in
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: LA (The Valley 818)
Age: 38
Posts: 534
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
You cant really define either one as luxury. But ill tell you this much, AWD is much easier to drive which would technically mean more luxurious? If the TL-S wasnt so badass I wouldnt buy a FWD car, torque steer is terrible. Especially when you hit the gas while turning.
09-13-2008, 06:30 AM
#50
Senior Moderator
You need torque to have torque steer
On a serious note, I don't really feel it and I push the car pretty hard. Unless you WOT from a dead stop, then it might move a tiny bit but who does that? From a roll, its non-existent. Some companies know how to deal with it (VW/Audi/Honda/Acura)...others, not so much. Drive a Maxima if you want to know what torque steer is.
On a serious note, I don't really feel it and I push the car pretty hard. Unless you WOT from a dead stop, then it might move a tiny bit but who does that? From a roll, its non-existent. Some companies know how to deal with it (VW/Audi/Honda/Acura)...others, not so much. Drive a Maxima if you want to know what torque steer is.
The former automakers have engines in their FWD that do not create anywhere near the torque of the latter's VQ35DE. Period. (Ex: My 07 AV6 is simply torqueless unlike my old 02 Maxima.)
After having driven an 08 Murano FWD at length and an 09 Maxima I can confirm that Nissan's CVT mitigates much of the torque steer. But in older Nissan's
: TS is a monster.Back on topic and already indicated, nobody (of any importance) thinks a luxury car cannot have FWD.
Here's an short article that might be of some interest:
Front wheel drive, rear wheel drive, or all wheel drive?
Most modern cars have front wheel drive for a very good reason: front wheel drive is safer and more controllable for the average driver. A front wheel drive vehicle has most of its weight on the front wheels, usually between 60% and 70%, so that it tends to go straight, just like an arrow where the weight is concentrated in the arrowhead. On slippery surfaces, if you give it too much gas in a turn, the front wheels will spin, causing the car to skid straight ahead. Even an inattentive driver will immediately realize there is a problem and let up on the gas, quickly regaining control: whereas a car with rear wheel drive in the same situation might spin the rear out causing the inattentive driver to lose control.
Front wheel drive is also great in the snow. Since most of the weight is on the drive wheels, you get better traction, and if you do get stuck with a spinning wheel in snow or mud, just turn the steering wheel a bit to allow the front tires to get a new bite.
If front wheel drive is so good, then why do any cars have rear wheel drive?
Actually, most luxury cars over $40,000.00 have rear wheel drive, as well as all race cars and most performance-oriented sports cars. Rear wheel drive cars have their weight distributed closer to 50/50 between the front and rear wheels, which is conducive to a smoother, more stable ride. Because of the weight distribution, the rear tires and springs can take on their fair share of the work load so the car can have higher cornering limits and greater maximum stopping power. Braking is also superior on a rear wheel drive car. With front wheel drive, under heavy braking such as in a panic stop, the weight of the car shifts forward so that the front tires may do as much as 85 or 90 % of the work to stop the car. The fact that front wheel drive cars stop well despite this handicap is a testament to the engineering that goes into today's automobiles and tires.
If you need to pull a heavy trailer, you should also be aware that rear wheel drive allows for a greater towing capacity than front wheel drive.
What about all-wheel-drive (4-wheel-drive) vehicles?
The best traction in adverse weather conditions can be had with all-wheel-drive vehicles. All-wheel-drive passenger cars and station wagons, in fact, handle as well as, if not better than many rear drive cars and are as safe and predictable during everyday driving situations as front wheel drive cars. The only disadvantages are initial cost and the fact that they tend to be expensive to repair. Some examples of all-wheel-drive passenger cars are the Audi Quattro, Subaru Outback & Impreza & Jaguar X-Type. Chrysler and Mazda, among others, also make all-wheel-drive mini-vans.
Most modern cars have front wheel drive for a very good reason: front wheel drive is safer and more controllable for the average driver. A front wheel drive vehicle has most of its weight on the front wheels, usually between 60% and 70%, so that it tends to go straight, just like an arrow where the weight is concentrated in the arrowhead. On slippery surfaces, if you give it too much gas in a turn, the front wheels will spin, causing the car to skid straight ahead. Even an inattentive driver will immediately realize there is a problem and let up on the gas, quickly regaining control: whereas a car with rear wheel drive in the same situation might spin the rear out causing the inattentive driver to lose control.
Front wheel drive is also great in the snow. Since most of the weight is on the drive wheels, you get better traction, and if you do get stuck with a spinning wheel in snow or mud, just turn the steering wheel a bit to allow the front tires to get a new bite.
If front wheel drive is so good, then why do any cars have rear wheel drive?
Actually, most luxury cars over $40,000.00 have rear wheel drive, as well as all race cars and most performance-oriented sports cars. Rear wheel drive cars have their weight distributed closer to 50/50 between the front and rear wheels, which is conducive to a smoother, more stable ride. Because of the weight distribution, the rear tires and springs can take on their fair share of the work load so the car can have higher cornering limits and greater maximum stopping power. Braking is also superior on a rear wheel drive car. With front wheel drive, under heavy braking such as in a panic stop, the weight of the car shifts forward so that the front tires may do as much as 85 or 90 % of the work to stop the car. The fact that front wheel drive cars stop well despite this handicap is a testament to the engineering that goes into today's automobiles and tires.
If you need to pull a heavy trailer, you should also be aware that rear wheel drive allows for a greater towing capacity than front wheel drive.
What about all-wheel-drive (4-wheel-drive) vehicles?
The best traction in adverse weather conditions can be had with all-wheel-drive vehicles. All-wheel-drive passenger cars and station wagons, in fact, handle as well as, if not better than many rear drive cars and are as safe and predictable during everyday driving situations as front wheel drive cars. The only disadvantages are initial cost and the fact that they tend to be expensive to repair. Some examples of all-wheel-drive passenger cars are the Audi Quattro, Subaru Outback & Impreza & Jaguar X-Type. Chrysler and Mazda, among others, also make all-wheel-drive mini-vans.
09-13-2008, 07:00 AM
#51
Someday, an RS6 Avant+
For me, I think FWD is a cop out of sorts. I mean, very small transaxle, efficient packaging, lower cost. It seems that a true luxury ride would have an AWD or RWD setup. Maybe its just me.
Oh, and I can get some torque steer from my Honda. That sucks ass, as the front is hopping around. Not a good feeling.
And my Legacy is AWD......
Oh, and I can get some torque steer from my Honda. That sucks ass, as the front is hopping around. Not a good feeling.
And my Legacy is AWD......
Last edited by mrmako; 09-13-2008 at 07:03 AM.
09-13-2008, 03:44 PM
#53
who cares are as long as the car is comfortable?
CL-S does not have torque steer even when I stomp on it due VSA and ECU limiting power in first 2 gears with newer ecu programming. Never noticed it in the 08TL loaner I had while they were working on the CL-S
The ONLY time I noticed any torque steer in the car is when I step on it when starting out on a turn...........
my co worker has an audi a6 and he thinks that the new TL is a very nice "Luxury" car
CL-S does not have torque steer even when I stomp on it due VSA and ECU limiting power in first 2 gears with newer ecu programming. Never noticed it in the 08TL loaner I had while they were working on the CL-S
The ONLY time I noticed any torque steer in the car is when I step on it when starting out on a turn...........
my co worker has an audi a6 and he thinks that the new TL is a very nice "Luxury" car
09-15-2008, 04:15 AM
#54
intelligentsia
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Land of cheap vodka, hot girls, and great nightlife
Age: 38
Posts: 4,376
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A4 is fwd front trac, ES fwd, TSX/TL FWD. So quite a few, theres nothing with FWD but I would perfer AWD. Living where it snows sucks with FWD and is even worse with RWD.
09-15-2008, 01:19 PM
#57
old school
Wow, I somehow missed this thread last week. I agree with pretty much all of the responses that basically said, "WTF? RWD = performance, not luxury," but I've got to add a couple of things...
These are bad arguments that something is a luxury car. 
I thought all of Infiniti's sedans were RWD/AWD. Not to mention every Lexus besides the ES.
BTW, I personally think AWD > FWD > RWD, but that's because I live in the northeast where it snows.
What concrete reasons are there? FWD does have many advantages:
1. Better gas mileage
2. Shorter hoodline
3. More interior room
4. Better handling in poor weather vs. RWD
5. Cheaper to build
6. Cheaper to maintain
7. Predictable handling
8. Most people don't drive like Jackie Stewart
1. Better gas mileage
2. Shorter hoodline
3. More interior room
4. Better handling in poor weather vs. RWD
5. Cheaper to build
6. Cheaper to maintain
7. Predictable handling
8. Most people don't drive like Jackie Stewart
BTW, I personally think AWD > FWD > RWD, but that's because I live in the northeast where it snows.
Last edited by elessar; 09-15-2008 at 01:22 PM.
09-15-2008, 07:48 PM
#59
Team Owner
and understeer feel like having a fine ass chick that you cant fuck. Dont you hate that?
Last edited by oonowindoo; 09-15-2008 at 07:51 PM.
09-15-2008, 11:03 PM
#62
Team Owner
09-16-2008, 02:28 AM
#63
My only car is a Bus
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Republik of Kalifornia
Posts: 3,254
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
If FWD was luxury then all of the expensive cars would have it. Before we get bogged down on what the definition of 'expensive' is let's say Rolls, MB, BMW, Audi above the cheap VW knock-offs, etc.
BMW and MB don't make any FWD cars sold in the US. Audi uses FWD because they are making people pay more for Passats.
So, thus far, no answers I guess?
BMW and MB don't make any FWD cars sold in the US. Audi uses FWD because they are making people pay more for Passats.
So, thus far, no answers I guess?
09-16-2008, 06:22 AM
#64
Someday, an RS6 Avant+
Cheers
09-16-2008, 01:03 PM
#65
The Box
I personally think that RWD is a lot more fun to drive than FWD. I've driven the 08 TL and the under-steer when you get on it is insane. I almost smacked into a van driving in the lane next to me. In my GS400, the car was always straight on and took off with no hesitation.....although the GS wasn't that much fun trying to pull out of the driveway in snow. I'm not really taking either side but if I didn't live where snow is an issue, I would probably more than likely get a RWD car....and if I do get a RWD car for my next vehicle I guess I'll just be forced to buy some snow tires.
09-16-2008, 03:13 PM
#66
Senior Moderator
I personally think that RWD is a lot more fun to drive than FWD. I've driven the 08 TL and the under-steer when you get on it is insane. I almost smacked into a van driving in the lane next to me. In my GS400, the car was always straight on and took off with no hesitation.....although the GS wasn't that much fun trying to pull out of the driveway in snow. I'm not really taking either side but if I didn't live where snow is an issue, I would probably more than likely get a RWD car....and if I do get a RWD car for my next vehicle I guess I'll just be forced to buy some snow tires.
09-16-2008, 03:24 PM
#67
The Box
I get some degree of torque steer with the TSX every time I accelerate hard from a dead stop. Maybe it's my fault for dropping the clutch too fast, but if it were a RWD vehicle this wouldn't be an issue and I could drop the clutch as I saw fit. This whole ordeal is quite uncomfortable to me.
Those issues are a driver issue and not a FWD/RWD issue.
09-16-2008, 04:17 PM
#68
Banned
I am sure that we get more snow here (not in immediate Montreal). And I owned 2 AWD cars. FWD is definitely more predictable and easier to recover when in trouble. And no, AWD won't keep you out of troubles.
09-16-2008, 04:18 PM
#69
My only car is a Bus
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Republik of Kalifornia
Posts: 3,254
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
RWD is more fun to drive if you know what you're doing. For most people, FWD is safer. But getting the ass to pop out on an S2000 is endless fun. Plus, here in San Francisco, FWD sucks on the hills.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
joflewbyu2
5G TLX (2015-2020)
105
08-18-2019 10:38 PM
jterp7
3G MDX (2014-2020)
9
02-03-2016 08:34 PM
adreano17
3G TL Tires, Wheels & Suspension
2
09-29-2015 08:48 AM
