paliknight

i was on another forum and we were talking about cars. then when i said i would rather buy a japanese car because they are more reliable and better quality, he said this:


i have nothing against american cars (i actually like american cars), but i was just stating my opinion.

Crazy Bimmer

I have heard worse.

paliknight

thats not what i meant. i have also heard worse, but i was looking more for your opinion on it. true? false? depends?

teranfon

As in do I agree with your statement? At one time wholeheartedly, but I think that Chevrolet, and especially Ford, now build some vehicles which have the same quality of the Asian brands. The perceived quality of the Asians, however, is for the most part greater than that of the domestics, and I suppose this is reflected in the resale values of each.

I would still buy an Accord over a Fusion.


Terry

Will Y.

Depends- for example, it can be either true or false depending on which year and model Lincoln v. which Mazda/Mitsubishi you use for a comparison. However, I'm not sure they have models that compete directly with each other, but I would bet most Lexus or Acura models (glass trans and all) are rated more reliable than the comparable Lincoln.

paliknight

lol thats what i was looking for, but just to be clear, that wasnt my statement (the one about ford surpassing honda and toyota).

i agree with you though.

mitch14

He should have used the word surpassed, not surpasses

RaviNJCLs

iTrader: (4)

Opinions are like a$$holes. Everyone has one.

The Dougler

iTrader: (1)

I have an a$$hole? No WAAAY.




Ford's come a long way, and while there initial quality may be significantly up, I wouldn't count my chickens just yet. In 4 years if those cars still exhibit the build quality that will be the true litmus test IMO.

RaviNJCLs

iTrader: (4)

You are an.....aaaaahhhhhh forget it.

zeroday

who cares, buy what you like

Shoofin

I'll partially agree...

A lot of the American car's have really gotten a heck of a lot better than it was in the past. They still aren't up to Honda standards, but I will say lately, Toyota's quality has came down a bit according to JD Power...

Myxomatosis

I've still yet to get in a sub 5k mi. Japanese car and say wtf how is this broken already, like I've done many times in the last year in GM's. Like squeaky steering wheels, malibu's seem to have a problem with this. just an observation as a valet. Than there's broken trim, poor fitment....etc etc. Japanese cars seem to stay the same, relatively speaking,

Costco

In the 80's and 90's Japanese cars were a lot better than their domestic rivals but now its nearly even. As said I'd get a regular passenger car like an Accord before say a Fusion but if I wanted a performance car, I would rather get a C6 instead of an STi hands down. When I try to compare them with an unbiased opinion, domestic performance cars look better, sound better, and well.... just plain go better the price is almost always a bargain also compared to an import/Euro equivalent performance-wise

I still like imports..... but until I grow out of this "phase" of fast and loud cars, I don't think I'll be going back. Also, the line is beginning to be blurred incredibly..... a lot of "Japanese cars" are designed and built with parts right here from the USA.

The CL, 2G-onwards TL, and MDX are all built in North America. They're more American than some "domestics" these days.

SouthernBoy

In the case of Ford, specifically the Fusion, this is true if you follow Consumer Reports and I have heard, J.D.Power. Consumer Reports ranks the Fusion ahead of the Accord and the Camry in overall quality and reliability.

Time will tell, but I really hope this is true.

Josh99CL

Regardless of reliability being equal/more equal I can't get over how much better the styling is on most euro/jap vehicles. The only thing American vehicles have going for them right now in that department IMO is the redesigned old school muscle, GTO, Charger, 2010 Camaro etc.

On a similar but unrelated note the vette needs a redesign...

GreenMonster

My last car was a ford, and it was better in terms of initial quality than my acura... Got rid of the Tbird at 136K miles. The acura should be more reliable long term

It's funny, but I got rid of my Tbird because of the tranny acting funny... ask CL owners about auto trannies... I did have an issue with the belt tensioner on my Tbird (covered under warranty) so I did get stuck once on the side of the road... CL had the belt tensioner replaced under a recall (before it failed)...

I had to bring the acura back a couple days after I bought it because the parking brake wasn't plugged in (memory seats didn't work, etc).... Had both lower control arms replaced. One at 7500 miles the other at 15K miles... never left me stranded tho'.

With some acura being built in ohio, the build quality isnt' going to be that much different than a domestic vehicle

Takran

Challenger

It seems Ford in particular has been raising the bar for reliability in domestics, but I agree that the muscle car is pretty much the only category with aesthetic appeal compared to foreign cars.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

For the most part that opinion covers initial quality and reliability... not necessarily long term quality and reliability... so only time will tell if his statement holds water or not.

Additionally, I know that personally I'd prefer the interior of a new Honda Accord over most Fords. Not to mention resale value. But that's just me...

fsttyms1

Having owned many may cars now import and domestic (for damn near 1 million miles total) i can say that every one of my GM/Ford vehicles have been less to own in terms of maintenance than my hondas have. Same goes for my parents and friends. While over all build quality is higher (interior fit and finish/materials) i dont think they are any better built 1990's on up than american made cars.

Blazin Si

My only gripe with American cars is the design of their interiors. Everything is so bland and there's too much hard plastic. However, the fit and finish is presented well.

I would say the new Cadillac CTS is now on par with the Japanese luxury brands in terms of design and quality. When the 02-07's were in production, it looked like GM had Rubbermaid produce their interiors.

v6cord2k5

iTrader: (1)

fixed

Josh99CL

Except that many peoples opinions don't stink :/

SG81

iTrader: (1)

i think Ford's are a lot better now. my dad just got an '09 Escape and i'm very impressed/ surprised with it

SouthernBoy

I've owned three Fords since 1988 for my own personal use and co-owned two since 1990.
Of the three I owned for my own use (1988 Mustang LX 302CID (5.0 liter for you metric types), 1996 Contour SE, 2000 SVT Contour), the Mustang and the '96 Contour were superb with the edge going to the Mustang. The 2000 SVT Contour had a design anomaly that was deliberate but a PITA to burn off residual fuel in the intake manifold. Otherwise it was flawless and over-engineered.

The two which have been co-owned (with my wife) were a 1990 Taurus and a 2001 Ranger Pickup. The Taurus was crap. It was made in Mexico instead of Atlanta where the good Taurus's came from. The Ranger Pickup is still owned by us and has been 100% reliable with absolute zero problems.

I have no brand loyalty, though I prefer to buy American when possible since I am an American. But first and foremost is the fact that I buy what I want at the time I am in the market that meets my wants and desires. Simple as that. I like the Fusion but would not buy one because currently it does not come with a V6 and a manual transmission. Only the 4-cylinder can be had with a manual. I really like the Pontiac G8 GXP. Finally Pontiac is offering something that not only runs like a scalded dog, but looks great as well. But with GM's problems, this could be a nightmare waiting to happen.

Of course the CTS-V, the Infiniti G35, and a few others look really nice, too as does the Mustang - though it's not a sedan. For the time being, I'm keeping my '04 manual TL. I still puts a smile on my face and that's what it all really boils down to in the end.

kneedragger87

4.95L to be precise, ,but the Mustang would look silly with 4.95 badges.



Edit: I had no idea Ford made a Contour SVT.

ilitig8

Cliff Notes: The right domestic model can be a good thing...

With Asian cars (particularly Honda, Toyota, Acura and Lexus) reliability tends to be a no brainer, pick any car in the lines and you will be fine. Domestics (Ford overall at the top recently) tend to be a more mixed bag, if you pick and choose the correct car in their lines you have a good chance of matching the Asian makes in reliability.

Most people will never explore the outer range of high milage reliablity, our next door neighbor at our vacation house buys Jags and Land Rovers over my subtle protests but his view is he never drives outside warranty and has had OK luck, he buys them used after the initial problems are fixed and never worries about what happens after 60K or so. Bottom line for most people if they pick a "good" domestic model and never get well over 100K they will probably never know the difference in basic reliability. The lower cost of purchase, maintaining and repair of most domestic products probably offset the higher resell value when you add in the higher initial cost of Japanese marques.

I travel a good bit and refuse to put my nicer cars on the road, I have a GM product with a 3.1L V6 with 350K which has never been touched, burns less than 1/4 quart of oil in 5,000 miles and even has the original factory spark plugs (a whole other story) and still returns 32 mpg on the highway. I am coming to the point I will have to replace it and have been trying to find the "perfect" car for several years (never expected it to go this long) I think I finally decided on a Ford/Mercury Fusion/Milan despite only looking at Asian brands for most of my search. You can get a 2006 Milan V6 Premier (Leather etc) with ~30K and a CPO 100K warranty for under 13K and given the statistical reliability data and the cost of a comparable Camry or Accord I would have to have pretty bad luck to spend less on a similar Asian car over the next 200 or so thousand miles. If the Accord or Camry were the same price I would get them, if this was my "real" car I would also get them but as simple transportation to be run to death on the highway it seems the best option for me.

Lutz's comments are resonably accurate that perception is lagging behind reality when it comes to domestic quality.

SouthernBoy

You're right about the actual displacement in liters. Being an old-school gearhead, I try my best to use cubic inches rather than metrics when referring to engine displacement (somehow 427 just sounds better than 7 liters).

Yep, Ford made the Contour SVT for, I think, four model years. At the end of the model run, they would send you a certificate stating the day the car was built, how many were built for the year, and which one your's was in the run. In 2000, Ford built 2150 SVT Contours (I do hope my memory is serving me here), and mine was #379 in the run. I think it was built on November 4, 1999. The SVT Contour was pretty remarkable, except for the deliberate designed-in problem of throttle hang to burn off residual fuel. Beehive valve springs, needle bearings in the transmission, a 1400 pound clamping pressure for the clutch, vented disk brakes all around (both of my Contours had these but the SVT's were more racing oriented). Hollow cams, engine oil cooler, and on and on. The 200 foot skip pad could be done at .92g's with the stock suspension. Try that in a 3-series of the day.

Were it not for the throttle hang problem (which we had an intermediate fix for), I would have kept the car much longer than the two years I owned it.

mrmako

I'll take my Honda or Subaru, interior wise, over anything American made, sans the CTS. Everything else, and I mean everything, has a very generic corporate parts bin look. And before someone talks about the Mustang, I hate that interior. Hell, I love the new Challenger, but the interior is not up to par with the rest of the design.

That being said, the new Lincoln MKS (2009/2010 model) has a very nice interior. It's a step up, and as a Lincoln, it should be a bit better. And the new Taurus is a nicer space inside. Definitely better than most of the rest, and much better than a Camry.

Rubbermaid? Look at Chrysler / Dodge. The Jeep / Caravan / Avenger / everything else they make has the shittiest interiors. Even the Viper has minivan HVAC and radio controls. The Corvette isn't much better. And before someone talks about those cars being sports cars and that's OK, look at a BMW or Mercedes in the same price area. Much better.

OP: I can't agree with the statement you quote, but the US has come a long way. Their cars are better now, quality wise, than they have ever been. How's that for a statement?

CLSpeedster

I still disagree. While they are making better stuff, it came when the American car companies were hurting. It was a forced move. All while Jap brands, and even Korean brnds, have been following this for years.

teranfon

Hi SouthernBoy

What's new? How's the weather down there? Did you watch Barrett-Jackon Palm Springs last weekend? A lot of Chevelles on the block. Didn't see too many 360 horse engines, but plenty of 325. Personally, I LOVE the sound of referring to a 427 Galaxie as a "7 liter". Always sounded badass to me. I always also found it interesting that a Ford 427 actually only has a displacement of only 425, but Ford referred to it as a 427 (or seven liter) as it was the largest allowed by NASCAR.

Take care

Terry

dallison

i would say they may be equal for a couple years, but once the cars age beyond 4-5 years is the real test. I would say that the foreign are still more reliable over the life of the vehicle than the doemstics.

Yakuza17

I've noticed that some studies rank American cars above Japanese cars in INITIAL quality. I'm assuming that's when the vehicles are new. I wonder how they would rank in five years...ten years?

Audioserf

Aside from the big ticket cars (CTS-V, ZR1, Z06), there are no circumstances which would cause me to purchase an American vehicle over a Japanese one in the same class.

paliknight

i agree with most of the comments. besides chrysler, american cars are actually descent. but honestly, i wouldnt buy an american car over an import unless it was an exotic or a sports car or a muscle car like the ZR1, Camaro, CTS-V, Viper, etc...