My car just broke over 600 miles tonight so I went out with my brother and his 98 M3 5spd to see the difference. 1st race: No traction but I had him til 80mph and he started pulling. 2nd: Same. 3rd He got me off the line and I paced him til about 80 and again he started pulling. 4th Again around 3rd gear he started pulling away. So Stock for stock they are very close but the M3 is faster. When I get the cold air and headers we will go at it again! Wish me luck

 

This post makes me wonder....

There is a guy over in racing stories that can't beat a 330 Auto. And you are neck-and-neck with a '98 M3.

There sure is a lot of variation in one or more of the following:

1. Cars
2. Driving skills
3. Road surfaces

(I'm only commenting about this example vs. others. I'm not drawing any conclusions.)



------------------
Silver 2001 CL-S with NAVI

• Mud guards
• Wheel locks
• Toyo T1S 235/45ZR17-97W* Proxies on 17x8" SSR Competition wheels (48lbs less than stock)
• Kevlar/SS Brake lines ordered
• Comptech headers & sways ready
• Silver AEM CAI ready
• 8 coats of Zaino magic

 

Please keep in mind I DID say it was faster and that he started to walk away above 80 mph! This is where we both shut down so I'm sure at higher speeds he would have had more of a significant lead! We are both experienced drivers and neither is more skilled than the other so that was not a factor! The truth is the M3 is not THAT much faster but is faster....

 

This is like my story against 2 Porsche Boxster S models. I was very close to 60-70 and actually got a jump on one (in an earlier race). In the later race, we were having fun, not trying to kill each other, and I had a similar experience... The Boxster-S would pull a bit ahead to 60-70, then due to road conditions and area, we just couldn't open it up. However, he did start to pull better after the end of 2nd gear.



------------------
Silver 2001 CL-S with NAVI

• Mud guards
• Wheel locks
• Toyo T1S 235/45ZR17-97W* Proxies on 17x8" SSR Competition wheels (48lbs less than stock)
• Kevlar/SS Brake lines ordered
• Comptech headers & sways ready
• Silver AEM CAI ready
• 8 coats of Zaino magic

 

5 speed M3 = 5.5 sec 0 to 60

Sportshift CL Type S = 6.7 sec 0 to 60

Hmm..they must have messed up on the numbers or something for the M3 because it doesn't seem as slow as you claim, unless it was a auto, which by the way does 6.2 sec. 0 to 60.

Just wanting clarification. Who messed up with the numbers, Acura or BMW?

------------------
'98 Dakar Yellow ///M3
www.BMWExperience.com
Forums are now open at www.BMWExperience.com
0-60 5.53 sec G-Tech

 

I don't think anybody messed up. It is a matter of:

1. How much gas in the tanks of each car.
2. How many people in each car.
3. Skill of the driver in the manual.
4. How were the car's broken in.
5. Is it hot out, and one of the cars is just starting after a heat soak.
6. Is one driver "abusing" the car as much as the other?
7. Are the cars on a slight down grade?

This is my point -- street races are not very well controlled, so the info should be taken with a grain of salt.

Example: If you took the M3 up to 8000 feet and raced an Audi that should get killed, you will be very surprised (yes/no)?


------------------
Silver 2001 CL-S with NAVI

• Mud guards
• Wheel locks
• Toyo T1S 235/45ZR17-97W* Proxies on 17x8" SSR Competition wheels (48lbs less than stock)
• Kevlar/SS Brake lines ordered
• Comptech headers & sways ready
• Silver AEM CAI ready
• 8 coats of Zaino magic

 

No one messed up the numbers you dumb fuck. Go troll somewhere else, you are not welcome here. (Probably the story of your life)

------------------
Silver CL-S w/ Navi, Spoiler, Wheel Locks, Trunk Tray, 19169, 9005
Toyo 235/45ZR17-97W* T1-S Proxes on 17X8 SSR Competition Wheels (47.2 lbs lighter than stock wheel+tire setup)
Comptech Sways
G-Tech (Full tank of gas, 60F, VSA off, SS) - 5.94 seconds
V-1 Hardwired

 

Don't waste your breath on this loser Eric, he's a BMW troll who was attempting to be sarcastic.

------------------
Silver CL-S w/ Navi, Spoiler, Wheel Locks, Trunk Tray, 19169, 9005
Toyo 235/45ZR17-97W* T1-S Proxes on 17X8 SSR Competition Wheels (47.2 lbs lighter than stock wheel+tire setup)
Comptech Sways
G-Tech (Full tank of gas, 60F, VSA off, SS) - 5.94 seconds
V-1 Hardwired

 

Hmmm....


------------------
Silver 2001 CL-S with NAVI

• Mud guards
• Wheel locks
• Toyo T1S 235/45ZR17-97W* Proxies on 17x8" SSR Competition wheels (48lbs less than stock)
• Kevlar/SS Brake lines ordered
• Comptech headers & sways ready
• Silver AEM CAI ready
• 8 coats of Zaino magic

 

i have hit 6.2 in my stock Type-S.

I am curious if you numbers for the M3 are off as much as your numbers for the Type-S.



------------------
01' CL Type-S, Navigation, Spoiler
4% tint on the backs and 34% on the fronts
Eibach Pro-Kit Springs (2" Drop)
AEM Cold Air Intake

 

haha i just found my 0-60 through a getto way!! it s 12 07 AM in CA now...i just got back from my 0-60 test =) i just bought one of those sport watch that can count by secs =)and my gf was sitting next to me with the watch.
i know it s not that accurate but whocares..
my gf was sitting next to me with the watch.
1st time: 0-62 was 7.5somthing HAHHAH
2nd time: 0-59 or 60 was 6.5
3rd time: 0-60 flat 6.0somthing
i only ran 3 times.. and i have AEM CAI


[This message has been edited by oonowindoo (edited 04-25-2001).]

 

Someone needs their diaper changed.

 

I've been running low 6's (6.05 - 6.2) with a full tank of gas and a packed trunk. I need to empty out the car and run the tank down below a half (at least) before trying again.

------------------
2001 Silver 3.2CLS
Muds, Spoiler, Hardwire 8500, Polarg M-6 lamps, K&N filter #33-2178,
Comptech Headers, Sways, mufflers
Planning: SSR 17X8 Competition Wheels, Brembo Brakes.

 

I can tell you from owning both a 95 M3 stick and a CL that this was a very probable race. M3's are very quick in 0-60, but so is the CL. On the other hand, the M3 has a great top end, where the CL is lacking. After you put in a new chip and CAI in the M3, this becomes a whole other story.

 

These M3 guys are really starting to piss me off. I am detecting an identity crisis here, what else could it be. This is like the Corvette guys talking to the Camaro guys telling them how much faster their car is I am really happy that according the specs an M3 is faster, I would hope so for 50K less in my pocket. Now, a CLS with $1,800 worth of mods giving one a run for it's money, that's great and really shows how good the CLS motor is. Considering I saved $16k I would be happy if strait line racing is all I cared about and now I can whip a more expensive car.

BUT, you know what?

It's still not a BMW, it's still not an M3. M3's are beautiful cars, hopefully my next car will be one. Hopefully when I buy one I will not have the need to troll car forums where I challenge cars 0-60 that are almost 20K less than my ride. Hopefully I will troll the S4 boards or the Porsche and Corvette boards where the real challenges exist. This trolling by the beamer boys is sad, do you need me to give you guys a hug and reassure your inner child that your car is nicer?

------------------
01' Acura CL Type-S
Piaa 19169 Bulbs
Valentine1 Pig Detector
CompTech Exhaust
Xephyr Cold Air Intake
Founding Member of the NO SCRATCHED RIMS CLUB

01'Acura Integra GSR

 

The complex starts from an early age. They're the same kids who would challenge you to bike race even when they had a $300 mongoose and you had a $89 Huffy. And yes, their dad could beat up your dad.

------------------
I don't measure a man's success by how high he climbs but how high he bounces when he hits bottom.
General Patton

 

Yeah, but my huffy has comptech pedals, braided brake lines, comptech super chain with titanium 'level 10' cogs. I have brembo super fast brake on the rear. I have Toyo Proxies on the volk rims so I know my huffy can beat your mongoose..

------------------
01' Acura CL Type-S
Piaa 19169 Bulbs
Valentine1 Pig Detector
CompTech Exhaust
Xephyr Cold Air Intake
Founding Member of the NO SCRATCHED RIMS CLUB

01'Acura Integra GSR

 

saabman:

Don't forget, since I'm from Minnesota, our governor can beat up your governor ...

------------------
Black 2001 Type S
*Eibach Pro-Kit (Waiting to be installed)
*Xephyr Cold Air Intake
*PIAA 19169 Road Lamps
*Rockford 500a2 [FOR SALE]
*Pioneer 12" @ 400w (x2) [FOR SALE]
*77237-SOK-A02
---Still 2 rims not scratched---

 

My governor doesn't wear tights!

My $1.02 is that Sims isn't a troll guys. I don't know why you guys have a problem w/him.

------------------
2001 Satin Silver Cl Type S.
Comptech:Headers, Springs & Sways
AEM CAI
Toyo T1S Proxys 235/45/17
SSR Competition wheels 17x8
35% Llumar metallic tint
My Car

[This message has been edited by Mike (edited 04-25-2001).]

 

First of all, I'm not going to waste too much time w/ Technique, just going to say the following:

"BLOW ME DICK WEED"

As for Mishka420:

I got those times off of what I personally have read about these 2 cars. I know people can beat these times and then again some people can't touch these times quoted. If you got 6.2 sec. then I would say, "Great Job! Keep up the good work, your a skillful driver". I have personally hit 5.5 in my car so I know my numbers are correct. If you say you have hit 6.2 then I have to correct myself by saying the following:

'96-'99 M3 0-60 = 5.5 sec.
'01 CLS 0-60 = 6.2 sec.

This is the main reason I have a forum on my website just dedicated to 0-60 times and 1/4 miles times so that we can straighten all this out. I even have a guy on there who says hes got a M3 with a carbon fibre body kit (less weight) who runs 0-60 in 5.1 sec.

If people like Technique keep haggling anyone who says ANYTHING about their cars and are so overprotective of their self image as to call other people trolls because they have a different car and like to talk about OTHER cars (not in a bad way at all). A big "Up yours" going out to Technique and his 1989 Toyota Corolla (big pimpin').



------------------
'98 Dakar Yellow ///M3
www.BMWExperience.com
Forums are now open at www.BMWExperience.com
0-60 5.53 sec G-Tech

 

ErikL,

Not to add anymore hostility, but there's no way your brother is an experienced driver if you hung with him off the line. I usually have .5-1 car right from the launch on a CL-S. I usually gain some more ground in second gear, but I feel third is even. In fourth I walk away. This is when I was stock and the Buddha's CL-S was stock. We are now both modified, and I can run with Buddha some more so we can give you an update. I'd say we are better analysts than you considering we have been drag racing for quite some time.


------------------
'99 BMW M3
Dinan Stage II

 

M3 owners, what gear is the M3 at, at 80mph and what rpm? Answer that.

Now since I am CLS owner and paid attention to this just earlier today:

2nd gear tops at around 70mph. When 3rd comes in at 70mph the rpm is at around 4300 rpm which is pretty low. Pretty low means:

500 rpm off of the VTEC
700 off of 5000 rpm where things just start happening with this engine

What am I trying to say?

If at 80 mph your 3rd was at antyhing around 5750rpm where the engine is really strong, the M3 would have stayed in sight.

See you people underestimate the power of SHORT GEARING. Or better yet, the difference short gearing makes in drag racing. Someone said M3s have better top end. Bullshit! Our engine has much better top end, it just has a SUPER FRICKING TALL 4th gear which takes over above 110mph or so.

So not only the M3 is a manual, it is also a short geared manual, deliberately so to emphasize the sportiness of its nature. What do you guys expect?

To pull some numbers off of my head. A CLS with a manual of which 2nd is 20% shorter, 3rd and 4th are 30%-35% shorter, will keep up with an E36 M3 anywhere on the mph range. Even being heavier and having the disadvantage of FWD.

Which by the way brings me to the next topic. The main reason why the M3 jumps on you at launch is simple physics, not engine. Physics dictates that RWD CARS HAVE BETTER POLAR INERTIA CHARACTERISTICS!

What does that mean? When a car launches, its weight is transfered towards its rear end. Which means that more weight is now on the rear wheels which means better launch. That same advantage for RWD cars is a disadvantage for FWD. I am sure most of you know this but I am just surprised that no one has said anything about gearing/weight transfer, etc.

I am tired to be talking about M3s and how fast they are. Big fraking deal. 13.9 is the best 1/4 mile I have heard. So? Is that so fast? Not for all the fuss. Right now fast is anything below 13.4 sec in my opinion. C5 and faster is fast and worth talking about. Average for M3s is 14.1 and for us is 14.9-15.0. None is worth talking about so much. And now with the new Z06 with 405HP stock you will be able to buy a car for 50K that will do the 1/4 mile in mid 12s. That is fast especially for the money.

------------------
Gabriel
CL Type S

 

rwwlaw,

Your brother cannot drive his car anywhere near its ability.

I did the same exact test as you with MY brother, only I was driving my M3 and my brother was driving my CL-S.

Why did I drive the M3? Simple, my brother cannot drive it anywhere as well as me. The CL-S is MUCH easier to drive at its potential since it shifts itself. As long as my bro got a good start, it would be a fair race as far as driving in concerned.

Guess what OUR results were......

Yeah, the M3 beat the CL-S off the lind badly. Midrange acceleration was the strong point of the CL-S. It could never pull on the M3, but the M3 did not pull away hard either. At speeds above 100 MPH, it was simply NO CONTEST. The M3 walked away easily.

Sorry, but that is the truth about the M3.

------------------
dead CL-S and M3

 

Very good points.

I'd like to make some comments based on my trip to L.A. last weekend. The fwy wasn't too crowded so I was watching the rmps vs mph in 3rd gear. With the headers and cai my car starts pulling really hard again @95mph/5.8k-6k rpms. No surprise there but the part that stinks is that 1/4 mile is just about finished by the time I'm in the real strong portion of the power band. I hope my 60 foot times are good in order to take advantage of the extra ponies this weekend.



------------------
2001 Satin Silver Cl Type S.
Comptech:Headers, Springs & Sways
AEM CAI
Toyo T1S Proxys 235/45/17
SSR Competition wheels 17x8
35% Llumar metallic tint
My Car

 

gavriil,

You remind me of one of those guys that studies the books until no end and then tells everyone what SHOULD happen in any and all circumstances, without any real world experience.

Some of what you say is correct. Most of the stuff about the gearing is correct (but not all), the FWD vs RWD weight transfer stuff, the curb weight issues.......

With all your book knowledge, I'm SHOCKED that you didn't mention TORQUE. Forget all the sissy horsepower ratings, because torque is what it's all about when you're talking acceleration/drag racing. Maybe you should start comparing torque curves when you talk about engines.


A lot of readers here know all this stuff, but the truth of the matter is that it simply does not matter. Line two cars up and see which is faster. That's the bottom line.

------------------
dead CL-S and M3

 

Glad someone else said that and not me.

The M3 and the S2000 would be a great race. The M3 and the CLS isn't. Period.

Tom, when are you and JZ going to hook up and put this debate to bed?



------------------
2001 Satin Silver Cl Type S.
Comptech:Headers, Springs & Sways
AEM CAI
Toyo T1S Proxys 235/45/17
SSR Competition wheels 17x8
35% Llumar metallic tint
My Car

 

JZ?

Does he want to run?

Where does he live?

------------------
dead CL-S and M3

 

lol, didn't you guys have an online conversation about this in the racing section? I'll dig it up later, but if I remember correctly you challenged him to a race. forget it here it is.


quote:
JZ, I'm gonna be down your way in a few weeks. Maybe we can meet and set up a little street racin' fun. We'll take some pics and post them here. Whatcha think?

By the way, I gotta tell you in the interest of fairness-- My M3 is no longer stock. I got it sharked, which is basically a software upgrade that adds a decent amount of power and eliminates the top speed governor. The actual top speed of an ungoverned E36 M3 is around 155 MPH.

------------------
dead CL-S and M3

from http://www.acura-cl.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000142.html



------------------
2001 Satin Silver Cl Type S.
Comptech:Headers, Springs & Sways
AEM CAI
Toyo T1S Proxys 235/45/17
SSR Competition wheels 17x8
35% Llumar metallic tint
My Car

 

Mike,

Oh yeah, he's from Maryland, right? Yes, I never even made the trip down there because of a change of plans.

But if I do make it down there one day........

------------------
dead CL-S and M3

 

You guys are funny! We both have mucho experience racing as he has a 89 GTA with a 383 Lingenfelter and I just sold my 98 Mustang GT for The CL! We both go to E Town fairly often so driving is not a factor! I have about a 100 fat pounds on him so my 1/4 tank of gas and his 3/4 tank was a wash! I just came from a 30 min sprint on the NJ turnpike at 80 to 90 mph so who knows what that did! Like I said before I got him off the line twice and he got me twice! Mostly cause I was spinning badly! It was a paced race till 80 mph and THEN he started to walk! So where's the grand claim here? They are both bone stock So please don't compare Dinan mods to stock CLS. This is what happened! If no one like it to bad these are the facts. If I came here and sad I blew him away than well this is what I would expect. I suspect there are far to many keyboard racers around here and very few have actually done what they claim! The next step is to take these cars to Etown for documentation!!
Peace

 

We are having a Chicago Acura meet this weekend. I will try to get some Acura CLS modded/not modded together this weekend and race. Maybe this will close the eyes of the people who are still not sure of which is faster. How does that sound? We will have all the Acura guys report here and this will end that!

------------------
'98 Dakar Yellow ///M3
www.BMWExperience.com
Forums are now open at www.BMWExperience.com
0-60 5.53 sec G-Tech

 

OK i'm going to try and make some quick sense about this. Correct me if I'm wrong on any point cause I would like to know. Let's say Sins runs his M3 5.5 0-60. Which by the way is extremly likely cause I have a friend with the exact same car that runs 5.4
Now let's say the CLS runs 6.2 to 60MPH.
That's a .7sec difference. At 60mph a car is doing 82ft per second. If someone wins to a given point by .7 secs at 82 ft per second then you do 82*.7 which (in my head, correct if i'm wrong) comes out to about 57.4 ft. Also about 3.5-4 car lenghts. So it would not make sense at all to stay up with an M3 closer than 2 car lenghts unless he couldn't drive.
Another aruging point is my dad has the XJR Jaguar which runs 5.1 to 60MPH. I raced the my friend with the M3 and beat him my 2 car lenghts to about 70 MPH (road ended soon.) now there is only a .3 differnce between our two cars so it woudl back my point if there is a .7 differnce it would be aorund 4 car lenghts. Tell me what you think, Anthony

 

Or is this totally wrong becuase you are not at a constent speed of 60 but rather an Accl to 60. If the answer to that is yes let me know and I will re work the math. THanks, Anthony

 

Yeah OK cross out what I wrote it was completly wrong. I'm bringing it to my physics Professor tomorrow and having him do it. I will not tell him what I thought at first becuase he will laugh, sorry about this and i'll figure it out by tomorrow

 

Hmm...we have a physics professor helping us? Wow! We should feel special

------------------
'98 Dakar Yellow ///M3
www.BMWExperience.com
Forums are now open at www.BMWExperience.com
0-60 5.53 sec G-Tech

 

I think you got the wrong guy, I don't have a brother that I race....

Hmmm... again...

This is getting so confusing.

Lesson1: Don't bother posting race stories without TV crew and witnesses.


Lesson2: Make sure to identify the correct person to respond to. In this case, 'rwwlaw.'

Final comment -- this will get the "crowd" going (big time). This reminds me of arguing about, "How Many Angels Can Fit On The Head Of A Pin."


Humble Request:
Can someone just take their stock, modified, and super-stock M3s and CL-S' to the track or airport already -- PLEASE, and report back. Hopefully, they can also do some running starts from 20 etc to de-noise all of the "noise" rolling around here.


Historic notes:

<font size=+2>
Angels dancing on the head of a pin:
</font>

"A thousand years ago or so, lots of really smart people used to spend their lives arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Why that was important to anyone is pretty much forgotten at this point, but artist Elizabeth Chandler has imagined five angels in full dance on the head of a pin, showing the basic joy and exuberance of helping angels. (They call what they're doing in this picture 'having a meeting.')"






------------------
Silver 2001 CL-S with NAVI

• Mud guards
• Wheel locks
• Toyo T1S 235/45ZR17-97W* Proxies on 17x8" SSR Competition wheels (48lbs less than stock)
• Kevlar/SS Brake lines ordered
• Comptech headers & sways ready
• Silver AEM CAI ready
• 8 coats of Zaino magic

 

I'm not gay you Acura-obsessed faggot.

------------------
Silver CL-S w/ Navi, Spoiler, Wheel Locks, Trunk Tray, 19169, 9005
Toyo 235/45ZR17-97W* T1-S Proxes on 17X8 SSR Competition Wheels (47.2 lbs lighter than stock wheel+tire setup)
Comptech Sways
G-Tech (Full tank of gas, 60F, VSA off, SS) - 5.94 seconds
V-1 Hardwired

 

I don't have a clue what you are talking about when you say "1989 Corolla".

You always talk in a "bad way" about the Type S, why even deny it? You are hanging out in an Acura Forum and CONTINUOUSLY beating the same dead horse "The Type S isn't as fast as all you people think it is!!!". Dude, no one cares about your opinion. I have seen stock Type S's run 6-flat and others run 7-flat. Who gives a shit? Go to your BMW forum and have a circle jerk with your fellow M3 owners if you want to feel good about yourself.

------------------
Silver CL-S w/ Navi, Spoiler, Wheel Locks, Trunk Tray, 19169, 9005
Toyo 235/45ZR17-97W* T1-S Proxes on 17X8 SSR Competition Wheels (47.2 lbs lighter than stock wheel+tire setup)
Comptech Sways
G-Tech (Full tank of gas, 60F, VSA off, SS) - 5.94 seconds
V-1 Hardwired

 

EricL,

Apologies. The message was in fact for rxxxxx.whatever. All I know is that I beat a S2000 by 2+ cars, and that same S2000 beat a CL-S by 1-2 cars. Granted there is always margin of error I should still be able to beat a CL-S. That's all I'm saying. My friend Buddha suggested I run with Webtoker who has Comptech heades, exhaust, VTECH controller, AEM CIA. This should be a much better race. He'll be there Sat. I'll ask if he wants to run, and I'll post afterwards.

------------------
'99 BMW M3
Dinan Stage II

 

Mods, PLUUUUUUEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSEEEEEEE
LOCK THIS THREAD IT IS USELESS.....

------------------
01' Acura CL Type-S
Piaa 19169 Bulbs
Valentine1 Pig Detector
CompTech Exhaust
Xephyr Cold Air Intake
Founding Member of the NO SCRATCHED RIMS CLUB

01'Acura Integra GSR