Thanks for all the replies in the other forum. My apologies for posting my note in the wrong place.

Here are answers to some of the comments:

I did do a search on "BMW" and got virtually nothing, so this is the reason I posted the question.

I am looking to spend something slightly north of $20K. As I check prices on cars.com and autotrader.com, it seems as though this will get me a 2003 5-series or a 2004, maybe 2005, TL.

I know about reliability issues on the Bimmers. Mine is a 1998 that I bought new and do nearly all of my own repairs and routine maintenance. It now has 200K miles on it and, fortunately for me, it has been exceedingly reliable, knock on wood. Others have been less fortunate than I. One of the main reasons I am interested in a TL is that I perceive that it will be highly reliable. I have never known anybody do have a Honda company product who has had reliability issues.

But my interest is beyond better reliability. I would happy give up a little bit in the reliability department to have a great car, and the TL is getting great reviews from what I have seen.

I want to look for a used TL, and learn more.

Can you give me some guidance on what to look for? If you were looking for a used 2004/5 TL, what features are important to have? What am I looking for?

Also, are the 2006-08 TL's basically unchanged from the 04/5?

 

I'd take a 2004+ TL over an older 5-series honestly. The interior alone is reason enough....

 

How many millions of miles would there need to be on that 5-series?

Seriously, I don't see why anyone would want a 525i with 55k miles on it which is about all there is in that price range from what I saw on Autotrader.

Get the TL and you'll be much happier.

 

The TL is a nice car but, the fun factor is not there...I believe the 04 - 06 remain unchanged. The changes were made for 07- 08. If they had made it RWD with AWD option...it would have been so awesome....a few of us wouldn't have gone over to the dark side...

 

Unless its a 540, I wouldn't bother.

 

Have you guys who do not recommend an E39 5-series driven one?

I drove my friend's 01 BMW 525iT, for wagon, with 90k miles a few times. While the car feels older than my 05 TL (well, duh), the 525iT tracks more straight, feels more composed and confidence inspiring compared to the TL by a long shot. The 525iT has dead or almost dead shocks, but otherwise that car is awesome. You have better steering feedback, the motor feels more powerful than it is.

But on side note, E39 does look and feel old inside, compared to the modern TL. I also wouldn't buy it if it has more than 50k miles.

In what I heard from the forums and my friends, E39 (and also E38 7 series) usually need its radiator replaced around 60k-80k miles. If you find one with new radiator, it's better. It's cooling system is also pretty weak with plastic impeller waterpump and plastic thermostat housing.

Otherwise, inline 6 motor is pretty much bulletproof. Brake service is also cheap if you do it yourself.

My friend's 01 525iT had an A/C problem, caused by a bad resistor on the A/C controller, covered by CPO warranty. His also had a dead alternator at around 80k and cost him $700 at the dealer. Other than new shocks/struts, that car needs nothing more.

IMO, that's not too bad. Obviously, it's not as good as Honda or Toyota's reliability.

I've been looking at 02-03 530i in Socal and the prices range from high teens to low 20k for less than 60k miles. Seeing this, the TL seems to have have better resale value than the BMW though. An 03 530i when new cost about $45k-$50k, decently equipped. An 04 TL when new cost about $30k-33k depending on Nav or no Nav.

One of my friends bought an 04 TL with nav and AT with 37k miles for $21k about 6 months ago.

 

get a tl like me

 

get the O5 not 04

 

Hmm I think an 04+ 5 series looks better than the current gen tl. But I have no idea how BMW 5 series reliability is and BMW is expensive to repair.

 

I think an 04+ 5-series would be way more expensive than what he's looking to pay.

BMWs regardless of the price range aren't for people who don't have a fair amount of money for that price class.

Whether it's a $28k used 3-series or a $40k used 5-series if you don't have pretty good liquidity at that income range (let's assume you don't VASTLY overspend your means) it's gonna be an expensive car to own.

I believe in budgeting a monthly payment and finding the best car that fits that payment range rather than falling in love with a car and eating Ramen noodles for 5 years

Of course we should never tell the salesdonkey what payment we want until after we've negotiated our best deal off MSRP and then beaten them up over the interest rate

 

SRK85, I would not get anything newer than an 03 5-series. I do not prefer the looks of the 5-series since they changed it. One of the things I like about the TL is the under-stated lines, which give me the same general impression as my e39 but in a more up-to-date way. The new BMW style is a over-the-top for me. Also, what would be in my price range would be an '04 525. We drove one. It is a nice car. But it did not compare to my 528 in terms of what I would call "BMW feel" and handling. My wife did not like the i-drive, but she is computer savvy and would get used to it. I would need to go to something further up the line than the 525 in the new body style to come close to what I want in feel and performance.

260-HP, my experience with trouble spots on the e39 is similar to your friend's. New under warranty they replaced the radiator and there were small problems in other places, about a half dozen or so. Too many for such an expensive car! When the car hit 40K miles, it just stopped having problems for a long, long time. I have had to replace control arm bushings a couple of times, but this is virtually routine on this car, like tires and brakes - expensive, though, and I cannot do it myself. Last year, at 185K I started getting overheating intermittently. I decided to replaced the entire cooling system, since this is the weak spot of the car. I replaced radiator, overflow tank, upper and lower hoses, water pump, thermostat, thermostat housing, and while I had it apart also replaced belts, tensioners, rollers, the works. I bought the parts over the internet at reputable BMW aftermarket places. Everything I bought was exactly BMW OEM (eg. Behr radiator) or proven to be good by the BMW enthusiast community. Cost of parts was about $700, and the job was not hard. I do my own brakes with BMW parts and the cost if you get parts from mail order BMW dealers on the left coast, like Pacific BMW, is about $225 front and the same for the back. A few other small things have gone wrong. I have an airbag light up right now on the dashboard. I know what it is. It is the passenger weight sensor pad in the seat bottom. It gives me this kind of stuff now and then. No OXY sensors or struts in 200K miles, amazing - but the struts are obviously not what they were when new. I would say that my experience with reliability is quite a bit better than the average 528/530 and much better than the average 540 of this vintage. Your comment on the engine is right on. I love the i6 engine. It is unbelievable what BMW is able to get out of this ancient straight six configuration , and they just keep taking the newer ones further, in terms of refinement and power output. The BMW straight six should be in somebody's auto hall of fame. However, if I go the BMW route again this time, I might get a used 540 so that I can take care of business a little better at stop lights. I am 63 years old, and some of these young punks don't have enough respect for their elders, so I want a little more low end torque. But the 540 feels heavier than the 530. I agree with your comment about the interior getting dated. Beautiful materials and all, but not up to date.

If I go with an 04/05 TL, what features do I want to be sure to have, or avoid? Do the 04/05s have stability control? I cannot seem to find an answer on that. I really don't understand the TL model/feature structure very well.

Are there problem areas I should be aware of?

Cheers,
BillK

 

BillK,

Glad we're in the same page. I just bought my first BMW last August, an 01 M3 with 12400 miles. I've been loving it and pampering it but also worried about small stuff that will break. I also can't believe BMW is still using the same I6 from years ago and these motors still feels up to date to today's standard in smoothness and power.

Anyway, all 04-05 TLs came fully loaded and there's no option packages. The only option is Navigation and choice of transmission. IMO, there's nothing to avoid as they are very reliable. If you find a car with Nav, it's more desirable and easier to sell, too. The Nav is excellent and possibly still one of the best in the market for user-friendliness. All TLs also come with stability control.

I believe you can go to the certified pre-owned section of acura.com to find more features and specs of these cars.

I agree that 540i feels front heavy, compared to 530i/528i/525i. The 540i also uses recirculating ball (like E38) steering instead of rack and pinion. Amazingly, BMW still manages to infuse great steering feel with the ancient recirculating ball steering.

I don't know about your area, but in Socal, the 540i, especially the 03 Sport, commands a premium over other models. They're also pretty rare. Actually, 03 540i Sport prices are not that far to 00-01 M5 with similar mileage, although the 540i Sport will be easier to live with.

By the way, the E38 and E39 chassis also suffer the same problem with dead pixels in the instrument cluster. You can email/mail BMW NA to complain and they usually will pay for a new cluster and all you have to pay is 1 our labor at the dealership.