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Writing to ask for thoughts on a particular vehicle: 2008 BMW Z4 coupe (E86) with the 3.0 I6 (N52B30) making 255 hp (when new) and mated to a 6-speed AT.
This 9-year-old car has 86k miles on the clock, and the seller is asking ~US$15k for it.
I've never owned a European car, let alone a BMW. My first car was a 1977 Pontiac Firebird, but the rest have been Japanese (Honda, Toyota, Mazda, Acura). So I'm used to Japanese-levels of reliability, and 86k on the clock doesn't seem like a lot.
Of course, I'm fully aware of the "Break My Wallet" and "The Ultimate Payment Machine" reputation of BMW's, but have also heard/read that the Z3 and Z4 belie that stereotype and are, in fact, very reliable (see links below).
Has anyone here owned/run an E85/E86 Z4? Any thoughts about driving dynamics, power, practicality as a DD, reliability?
For context: I'm married but don't have kids/pets. I drive about 10-12k annually; my daily commute is 10 miles one way, and I take about 3-4 longish (900 mile) road-trips per year on avg.
Any feedback or advice would be most welcome and greatly appreciated. TIA!
2008 BMW for $15k? Hard pass. Also auto trans? Nope.
The Z4 would not be a very good daily driver either, no space for anything, small trunk, small fuel tank, loud, etc... As a second car it's probably fine but, as was mentioned, the S2000 is a FAR better buy. Though you won't get anywhere close to a 2008 model with any number of miles for $15k unless it has a salvage title. You can get an AP2 with high-er miles (80-100k+) for $15k or an AP1 with reasonable miles (60-80k) for $15k.
I made the jump from Japanese cars (Hondas/Acuras) 10 years ago and haven't looked back. The one piece of advice I'd offer is this: go to a message board and see what the common maladies for the model you are interested in and see what they are. Try either
Can't comment on the price, but I don't see a huge problem with that engine with that amount of mileage on it. Hell, I'm running a N54 (with two turbos) and I'm at 129k miles. The engine in that Z4 is much less complex and is a version of an engine BMW has been making forever.
And the S2000 is small, loud (high revs) lacking space as well.
I guess what we're trying to say is .. if you're considering a car that's small, loud, lacking space, etc .. you might as well get something that does it best
And the S2000 is small, loud (high revs) lacking space as well.
Oh absolutely. As a daily, the S2000 is total dogshit. I know a few people on here daily theirs and I couldn't even imagine how terrible that would be.
However, as a fun toy car, it's really quite awesome.
Nanxun, I too would have to vote for the s2000... it really is a great little car. Emphasis on "little"
I assume the Z4 is likely the same size as the s2000, but, if you can fit in an s2000, buy one now. There aren't many cars that go up in value these days- especially ones at that price point- but the s2000 is one of them, and for good reason. It's a wonderful little car and it's worth it's weight in gold. That, and it's such a simple car and there is a ton of room in the engine bay to do any work, if necessary. Though, the s2000 is really an all out bulletproof car, as long as basic maintenance was followed through with.
I'd be in an s2000 these days, if I could fit in one. Unfortunately, I'd have to cut a couple inches off my legs off to be able to sit in one comfortably.
2008 BMW for $15k? Hard pass. Also auto trans? Nope.
The Z4 would not be a very good daily driver either, no space for anything, small trunk, small fuel tank, loud, etc... As a second car it's probably fine but, as was mentioned, the S2000 is a FAR better buy. Though you won't get anywhere close to a 2008 model with any number of miles for $15k unless it has a salvage title. You can get an AP2 with high-er miles (80-100k+) for $15k or an AP1 with reasonable miles (60-80k) for $15k.
Originally Posted by Chief F1 Fan
And the S2000 is small, loud (high revs) lacking space as well.
I realize how loud the S2000 must be--8k redline, I4 engine, etc.
But is the (automatic) E86 Z4 (which has an straight 6) really that loud (at highway speeds)?? I guess I should look up the final gear ratio, huh? [lazy]
EDIT:
S2K final (6th) gear ratio: 0.810 (AP1), 0.763 (AP2)
E86 Z4 final (6th) gear ratio: 0.690 (auto), 0.85 (manual)--redline of 7k for both
well... any roadster is loud at highway speeds, even if they have a power folding hard top. Anything above the doors offers very little, to no sound deadening. It's not even the engine noise- wind noise can be really bad too.
My 2007 Miata (with a power folding hard top) was loud on the highway. I know s2000s are loud on the highway. I assume the Z4 is no different.
It's the nature of such cars. The Z4 might be a bit better, but I wouldn't hold my breath counting on it.
well... any roadster is loud at highway speeds, even if they have a power folding hard top. Anything above the doors offers very little, to no sound deadening. It's not even the engine noise- wind noise can be really bad too.
My 2007 Miata (with a power folding hard top) was loud on the highway. I know s2000s are loud on the highway. I assume the Z4 is no different.
Thx for the feedback! But I'm looking at an E86 (coupe), not an E85 (roadster).
I found this little tidbit about the author of that article quite interesting:
"Steven Lang has been an auto auctioneer, car dealer, and part owner of an auto auction for nearly two decades. He is co-founder of the Long-Term Quality Index."
At least the conflict of interest was disclosed and the guy uses his own index to support his points. Not saying this automatically invalidates his point but his points are quite weak and laughable at times.
Also there is very little background on how he measures the Long-Term Quality Index...the website that hosts that graph shows just that graph and no other data/methodology on how they obtained these "index" numbers.
Let's take a look at his purported points on why used sports cars are "reliable."
1 - They are driven less than other cars. (Well duh. In general less miles will equate to less wear/tear, of course special circumstances notwithstanding plus the kind of miles matter too. I've seen my fair share of broken down muscle/sports cars on the side of the road with its hood up and the driver with an agonized face. The issue with sports cars is since they are rarely driven the lower miles are likely to be harder miles with respect to acceleration and braking...because let's face it if you can only drive your nice car once or twice a week (if that depending on weather) you're gonna want to stretch out its legs).
2 - The owners spend more money to maintain it. (again, another duh point. And this may actually point away from his assertion...if sports cars are so reliable then why do the owners have to spend more? Of course we acknowledge that parts and service costs more as a baseline but his assertion is that since they are treated nicer they are more reliable...well of course! This is obviously not a fair comparison as if you drove less miles and spent more to upkeep a Toyota Corolla it will be more reliable too!)
3- Some sports cars have the same drivetrain as heavy-duty vehicles like SUVs. (This may be true for yester year cars but I feel that modern sports cars are designed specifically for its own platform....and we don't find companies shoe-horning truck/SUV engine/transmissions into sports cars as often these days....and of course this relates back up to the point of why drive like a grandma in a sports car)
4 - This statement: "Nearly 80 percent of the sports cars, roadsters, and grand tourers that have been sold in the United States since 1993 have above-average reliability, according to the Long-Term Reliability Index. That’s a record that no other segment of today’s market can match." (Again he provides no data/methodlogy on how he calculates this Reliability Index and how he arrives at this 80% reliability figure). Really sounds like self-serving BS to me.
Sorry to OP...not to burst bubble but that article is pretty BS to me..especially given the info/background of the author.
Don't want to rain on your parade but as Aziners here we are mostly well-informed car enthusiasts and myriad of information at our disposal.
But for that Z4specifically, I'm not a fan of that front end at all. Otherwise I think you'll just have to test drive and see if you like it! Definitely should hit up the bimmer forums to see about common issues and things to watch out for in these models....
I found this little tidbit about the author of that article quite interesting:
At least the conflict of interest was disclosed and the guy uses his own index to support his points. Not saying this automatically invalidates his point but his points are quite weak and laughable at times.
Also there is very little background on how he measures the Long-Term Quality Index...the website that hosts that graph shows just that graph and no other data/methodology on how they obtained these "index" numbers.
Let's take a look at his purported points on why used sports cars are "reliable."
1 - They are driven less than other cars. (Well duh. In general less miles will equate to less wear/tear, of course special circumstances notwithstanding plus the kind of miles matter too. I've seen my fair share of broken down muscle/sports cars on the side of the road with its hood up and the driver with an agonized face. The issue with sports cars is since they are rarely driven the lower miles are likely to be harder miles with respect to acceleration and braking...because let's face it if you can only drive your nice car once or twice a week (if that depending on weather) you're gonna want to stretch out its legs).
2 - The owners spend more money to maintain it. (again, another duh point. And this may actually point away from his assertion...if sports cars are so reliable then why do the owners have to spend more? Of course we acknowledge that parts and service costs more as a baseline but his assertion is that since they are treated nicer they are more reliable...well of course! This is obviously not a fair comparison as if you drove less miles and spent more to upkeep a Toyota Corolla it will be more reliable too!)
3- Some sports cars have the same drivetrain as heavy-duty vehicles like SUVs. (This may be true for yester year cars but I feel that modern sports cars are designed specifically for its own platform....and we don't find companies shoe-horning truck/SUV engine/transmissions into sports cars as often these days....and of course this relates back up to the point of why drive like a grandma in a sports car)
4 - This statement: "Nearly 80 percent of the sports cars, roadsters, and grand tourers that have been sold in the United States since 1993 have above-average reliability, according to the Long-Term Reliability Index. That’s a record that no other segment of today’s market can match." (Again he provides no data/methodlogy on how he calculates this Reliability Index and how he arrives at this 80% reliability figure). Really sounds like self-serving BS to me.
Sorry to OP...not to burst bubble but that article is pretty BS to me..especially given the info/background of the author.
Don't want to rain on your parade but as Aziners here we are mostly well-informed car enthusiasts and myriad of information at our disposal.
But for that Z4specifically, I'm not a fan of that front end at all. Otherwise I think you'll just have to test drive and see if you like it! Definitely should hit up the bimmer forums to see about common issues and things to watch out for in these models....
VERY, VERY helpful and greatly appreciated. :wink:
No worries about "raining on my parade." This is precisely why I started this thread and solicited advice/input from the community.
I realize how loud the S2000 must be--8k redline, I4 engine, etc.
But is the (automatic) E86 Z4 (which has an straight 6) really that loud (at highway speeds)?? I guess I should look up the final gear ratio, huh? [lazy]
EDIT:
S2K final (6th) gear ratio: 0.810 (AP1), 0.763 (AP2)
E86 Z4 final (6th) gear ratio: 0.690 (auto), 0.85 (manual)--redline of 7k for both
Oh absolutely, the S2000 is loud as fuck on the highway even with the top up but that's part of the experience. None of these cars with folding roofs are going to be quiet...
Originally Posted by nanxun
Thx for the feedback! But I'm looking at an E86 (coupe), not an E85 (roadster).
IMO, if you want the Z anything, get the M version.
Oh absolutely, the S2000 is loud as fuck on the highway even with the top up but that's part of the experience. None of these cars with folding roofs are going to be quiet...
IMO, if you want the Z anything, get the M version.
I've always been fond of the Z4 M Coupe ... twin turbskies!
IMO, if you want the Z anything, get the M version.
Originally Posted by TylerT
I've always been fond of the Z4 M Coupe ... twin turbskies!
I hear ya on the M Coupe. Unfortunately, probably outta reach financially. Plus I worry that the added complexity (twin-turbos) might detract from reliability, although as ttribe posted, he's at 129k on a N54 twin-turbo with no real problems, so....
EDIT: If the M Coupe's engine is NA, might have to look into it. Still think it'll be outta my price range, though.
I hear ya on the M Coupe. Unfortunately, probably outta reach financially. Plus I worry that the added complexity (twin-turboes) will detract from reliability, although as ttribe posted, he's at 129k on a N54 twin-turbo with no real problems, so....
Sorry for spreading incorrect information - it's N/A.
Any other coupes/roadsters in consideration? Is BMW a must or just a draw of the marketing/hype of the "ultimate driving machine." While I obviously think its probably great segment of cars I also wonder how much of it is just brand marketing and hype....
Any other coupes/roadsters in consideration? Is BMW a must or just a draw of the marketing/hype of the "ultimate driving machine." While I obviously think its probably great segment of cars I also wonder how much of it is just brand marketing and hype....
Probably a bit of attraction due to the Bimmer marketing and hype, but also...
I'm just smitten with the idea of a RWD coupe, but would be willing to consider a hard-top roadster as well, I guess.
Price range is ~$12k-$18k
So:
BMW Z3 or Z4 coupe
GT86 Toyabaru--not enough power, hole in torque curve
S2K--really a roadster (too noisy) and too much NVH for a DD and highway cruising
Of course, there's the MX-5, but ... meh (power)....
My spouse is gonna kill me if she sees this thread!
Ah I see.I think I may be in a very very similar position few years down the line!
A RWD coupe with decent hp sounds delicious.
Another possibility is a early year, higher mileage E46 M3 (but probably not a good idea with that budget given the repair/maintenance nightmare with this model).
Of course there are myriad of American muscle in that range though it'll be heavier and may not be as refined (GTO, C5, etc.)
A 370Z seems like a nice balance...if a nice deal can be had!
I like the M-coupes but not a fan of the regular Z4s. I think you can find better bang for the buck elsewhere for that price. And that's not a knock on BMW b/c we have had German cars for over a decade now with no problems... I just think in this case, there are better options as mentioned above...
Probably a bit of attraction due to the Bimmer marketing and hype, but also...
I'm just smitten with the idea of a RWD coupe, but would be willing to consider a hard-top roadster as well, I guess.
Price range is ~$12k-$18k
So:
BMW Z3 or Z4 coupe
GT86 Toyabaru--not enough power, hole in torque curve
S2K--really a roadster (too noisy) and too much NVH for a DD and highway cruising
Of course, there's the MX-5, but ... meh (power)....
My spouse is gonna kill me if she sees this thread!
take a look at the 370z.
You can get base model versions for hella cheap. Sport models come with big brakes Front and back, 332hp, rwd, 6mt, coupe, LSD, synchro rev matching, hydraulic steering, etc. The Nismo model bumps power to 350hp.
The car has pretty much remained unchanged since 2009 when it was released, save for cosmetic changes. I have a 2016 370z Nismo, and while it's not the fastest or craziest car by any means, it turns heads all the time and is a thrill to drive. It also has a very sports oriented suspension, but with the huge wheels, it is still comfortable. The wife had never had a complaint about the ride.
I'm sure you can find older Sport models in your price range. Oh and did I mention there is huge aftermarket support and a massive wealth of knowledge on the car?
You can get base model versions for hella cheap. Sport models come with big brakes Front and back, 332hp, rwd, 6mt, coupe, LSD, synchro rev matching, hydraulic steering, etc. The Nismo model bumps power to 350hp.
The car has pretty much remained unchanged since 2009 when it was released, save for cosmetic changes. I have a 2016 370z Nismo, and while it's not the fastest or craziest car by any means, it turns heads all the time and is a thrill to drive. It also has a very sports oriented suspension, but with the huge wheels, it is still comfortable. The wife had never had a complaint about the ride.
I'm sure you can find older Sport models in your price range. Oh and did I mention there is huge aftermarket support and a massive wealth of knowledge on the car?
This is F**King awesome and could be THE ANSWER.
As it turns out, my wife has often cooed about the 370Z whenever we've seen one on the road. She loves its wide-ass "hips."
For his price range, he'll find a semi-high mileage E46 ... If VANOS & Subframe reinforcement has been done ... I'd be more inclined to recommend one.
He can more thank likely find an E46 330Ci with reasonable miles for far less than his budget. If he gets a facelift model it doesn't come with the subframe issues. VANOS is far less of an issue on the non-M motors. The M54 in those cars is pretty stout and solid, maintenance is fairly easy but frequent, and it's a blast to drive. If you want more power, the M54 takes to FI pretty well.
Oh God, I love the hips on the car. They're huge. And beautiful.
Couple things about the 370 to be aware of:
1. I personally cannot stand the look of the non navi dash. In place of the screen is a big stupid looking cubby hole. Some love it. I can't stand it. I find with navi, it really transforms the interior.
2. The Recaro seats in the Nismo are Uber comfy and we'll supporting. They aren't necessary, but if you can spring for a Nismo, at least test drive one first.
3. The car has some inherent weak points. The worst one is the clutch slave cylinder. It's shit. There is a fix for this, but it's like 600-800US if I'm not mistaken. That's the worst thing and not necessarily to show up. Older cars may already have it fixed already.
The car can use an oil cooler if you do track events. I recently did one on a warm and sunny day and had no issues. After 20 min on the track, I would just pop the hood to let the engine cool (in the pits) before my next 20 min session. It's more of an issue in really hot places. My sessions were limited to 20 min each, but I'm sure I would've been fine if I was able to go longer (track day restrictions limit me to 20 min runs).
The final issue is related to the gas tank design and upon really hard cornering, the gas shifts to the other side and you lose power for a few seconds. Really just another track day issue... I had no issues myself and I was pushing the car as hard as possible. I've never personally experienced this, but again, there are solutions for this. In fact, all three issues I mentioned have reliable fixes. I've read that the s2000 has the same problem and I'm sure other cars do too, due to the gas tank location and the rear diff being in the way, causing for an oddly shaped tank. It's only an issue if you have 50% fuel or less in the tank, but again, this never happened to me. It might be based in particular long sweeping curves in a certain direction.
As far as forced induction for the 370z is concerned... you can either go Supercharged, turbo charged, or twin turbo charged. Huge aftermarket support. Stock engine is reliable to handle 550whp, at like 8 or 9 psi. Though there are a number of 800+ hp builds out there, but you need to dump a lot more money then.
While going FI isn't cheap, there are always barely used kits that show up for sale. You can save a ton. That goes for anything- oil cooler, CSC , you name it.
I dunno how the z4 coupe is, but I don't ever really see modified ones around. I assume aftermarket support is limited on that car.
07-21-2017, 02:54 PM
Thoughts on a 2008 BMW Z4 coupe (E86)?
But not a fan of the Z3 M Coupe 
