I would like to know some numbers from that 1.8T jetta, you smoked an m3, yea sure. Lets not get out of hand here!

yeah, i dont believe that for even half a second.. no 4cyl can hang with one of those cars.. that's some good b.s. though..

What about that video were a Civic DX kept up with a Viper?

Yes, it was a four-banger (with lots of mods of course).

http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/showt...light=civic+c5

It might not be a joke, but that definitely got me laughing. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Shawn S

you would be surprised how quick the chipped VW's are. I've seen Jettas running mid to low 14's on a hot night. But that's still not M territory. Change the turbo, and then we are talking M territory.

Not wanting to support the claim, just adding some information. He did state //M Coupe which came with two engines depending on years. The pre-'01 had the same engine as the E46 M3; 240 HP. Whereas the '01 and later had a slightly restricted E46 M3 motor rated at 315 HP.

The 240 HP versions were low 14's - high 13's second vehicles.

Re: Test drove a A4 1.8T
 

Weird, my sports package had a power driver seat. :) Depends if you get the premium package.

And btw, the audi is much better built.

Sorry but the A4 would slaughter a CL in the twisties.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Windsor
[B]Hey the CL-S is fast and smooth. But chipped the Audi 1.8T is NO JOKE and a force to be reckoned with!!! I owned a 1.8T Jetta w/ GIAC chip, 4 bar regulator and an intake. I smoked an M-coupe and would regularly run with M5s and E36 M3s like I said ---- NO JOKE.


Lets be realistic I have a 98 VR6 Jetta 5 spd with cams, chip, exhausted, mod air box, underdrive pulleys and headers and I run 0-60 in 6.1-6.4 and 1/4 mile in 14.8 to 15. A stock Golf GTI runs about 7.0 sec 0-60 and 1/4 m in mid 15's there is no fricking way that 1.8T Jetta with mods will smoke an M and I mean M3 or M5. You are more credable if you said a CL-S smoked a M3 and not even our CL can do that. You must be smoking some good dubbies.

that's just it, you have a VR6...how can you even compare the performance of a heavily modded VR6 with a heavily modded 1.8T? i'll take the turbo any day!

Uh I can think of at least 2 cars that can.....


94-95 Lotus Esprit S4 and S4S (264 and 300hp respectively)
Lotus Elise (i forget the hp #'s, but the damn thing is soo light)

Two four bangers than can hang, and probably beat those uber sedans.....

Uh I can think of at least 2 cars that can.....


94-95 Lotus Esprit S4 and S4S (264 and 300hp respectively)
Lotus Elise (i forget the hp #'s, but the damn thing is soo light)

Two four bangers than can hang, and probably beat those uber sedans.....

And they would all outright destroy a CL-S

Wow...:cheers: another person that sounds like he knows so sh!t and didn't come to start sh!t.

Welcome!

There are screaming 4-cyl cars out there now but they don't have the cushy interior and they don't have the image that a CLS has. A chipped GTI will be very fast but I can't see myself (personally) buying one even if it was faster than the CLS. By the same token I can't see buying an EVO or STI as a daily driver which is all I can afford....I like the bells and whistles. I like the size and the looks.

Put a great engine on a skate board and you can beat whatever you want...a car is more than that to me. :dunno:

Any news on the new Golf? It looks a bit smoother from the pics I saw...the A4 is nice but not special IMO. Like any other company there are lovers and hates. I salute both. :thumbsup:

Let's stop pretending here that the A4 Quattro with Sport Suspension is an incredible handling car. It is good but not the end all. An employee of mine has had two now, a 2000 and a 2003 both with sport suspension, and my E46 328i with sport suspension would out handle it noticeably. We would drive up through the north GA Mountains, obviously I would take him on the straights, but I would also put distance in the turns. When swapping cars the outcome was the same (taking driver capability out of it).

Now this is comparison to a BMW which is not the topic. But I will take this even further and include the CL-S. Obviously there is no sport package for the CL-S which normally include summer only tires, higher spring rates and sway bars; your basic upgrades (which should have been offered from the factory) and would still allow it to compete in Solo II Stock Class.

At this point it would depend on the road or track type. On a tight auto-x or a road like Hwy 129 (Deal's Gap) the shorter wheel base and AWD would allow it to move ahead. But on a road course such as Road Atlanta or higher speed turns where left/right transitions are less of a significance; the CL-S may be able to pull ahead or stay even at which point the straights would put it well in front.

So IMO, a better definition of the overly used term "twisties" should be applied as there are many types which suit certain cars better.

i see lots of opinions from people who have not owned BOTH

Owning and performance driving a vehicle are two different things. The latter giving a better indication of the vehicles capability.

Have you taken your Audi to 9/10th for extended periods?? If so, where?? Also, did you take your CL to 9/10ths for extended periods (when not in the shop)?? I am not talking about an on ramp either. ;)

I also have owned both, and the Audi easily out performs the CL-S in the twisties period. I was able to take turns 20 mph or more faster in the Audi compared to the CL-S. In Autox the A4 did damn good.

20 MPH faster huh?? If that is the case my BMW would have been even 20 MPH faster which would not happened.

As I stated, an on-ramp is not a good indicator and 20 MPH difference, if not trying it at over 100 MPH, is incorrect. Maybe the Audi inspired more confidence to allow you to take it faster but the actual limits were not that great of a margin.

I have run an auto-x, driven on Road Atlanta and taken some serious extended mountain road runs in an A4; I would say that the A4 is one of the cars I have more high speed experience in. And it wasn't as good as my BMW but it was better than a stock CL-S. A CL-S with the standard suspension items is comparable, but still slightly lacking, in a different fashion requiring greater driver skill to get the most out of it.

There is a significant different in the ways you enter and exit a turn in these two vehicles; the Audi is more forgiving but if done right the CL-S (particularly the CL-S6 with HLSD; that limited slip can be employed to make a marked difference especially on low speed turns) can turn well.

come on scalbert....

we are not rejects.....

we can tell that one car handles better by owning them both....

its actually NIGHT and DAY difference...

btw, u can always mod the A4's suspension too...

and even when modding a cl-s, it will still lose to a STOCK A4 with sport suspension ..in the twisties,

Have you pushed both cars to the limit fro extended periods?? From what I gather, you don't push your car as you prefer to add stereo and rims to it; am I correct?? Have you been to an auto-x or road course?? That does not indicate you are a rejects; I wouldn't even consider that. It just shows different priorities.

The difference in feel is night and day with the Audi inspiring more confidence. But if driven correctly the CL-S can do well, just as well if not better on longer sweeping turns. On a tighter course the A4 will pull ahead. Turns are no all alike and some cars are better suited to certain conditions. So again, twisties is an overly used generic term which needs further clarification.

Yes, you can modify the Audi but the increase will not be as significant as what occurs with the CL-S. Take the base suspension A4 for instances, it does not handle that well, but Audi offers an upgraded package from the factory. I'm trying to keep everything equal to a point.

Do you feel, with you driving, your A4 could out handle my CL-S6 with me driving?? I've proven that my CL-S6 can out handle an A4 with sport suspension already on certain style courses. I'll even have lap times within the next couple of months as further evidence.

1)Scalbert, does the A4 have any of the same steering issues as the CLS?

2)The term AWD is a bit confusing to me, is it front wheel drive with all wheel capability, or a true AWD system?

I am talking about clover leafs, etc. Not autox 20mph faster. And I will say that my Audi with sport package handles just as good as a IS300. The CL-S would never touch it. Since I am a experienced road racer, I know which car handles better. Since you have not driven the B6 A4 too its full potential I think you need tO shut up. (to be somewhat nice).

If you were able to take clover leafs 20 MPH faster then there was a problem or you have changed the laws of physics. I'm assuming you were taking them at 50 and now 70 MPH or so?? Even if this is off 10 MPH either way you will be achieving skid pad numbers about 0.15 Gs higher putting the A4 near 1.0Gs which is not the case. You do the math!!!

As I stated, I have aggressively driven the B6 A4; maybe to a greater extent than you. If you are an experienced road racer you would not have made the comments you have. The broad stroke statements mark inexperience.

Me shut up, why?? So the A4 is the current flavor of the month for you??

You should know that a road course and auto-x are two different worlds. I know the inherent limits of the CL-S6 and would not pretend it is a great performer. But I know where it stands against other vehicles. AGAIN, on an auto-x the CL-S would most likely turn in slower lap times. On a road course things would be different as the quick transitions, which would be the most negative point for the CL-S, are minimized.

scalbert....

i truly have pushed these cars....

both of them, with stereo in, and out..

im sorry, but i think you are VERY wrong....

lets look at the new S4....it is slower than the M3...heavier, yet due to the same quattro technology..it beats the M3 in a lap...

btw, my konis are on the stiffest setting, and i will take, murder, demolish ANY cl-s in ANY twistie.

this is my 6th car that i have owned...my 3rd german car...i've had quite a few cars, and i know how to drive...i've pushed all my cars.....im no stranger to agressive driving,

Steering issues or characteristics?? The A4 certainly has better and quicker initial turn in and is very neutral through a turn under power. The CL-S will initially plow but with throttle control you can invoke some oversteer attitude in the CL-S6.

The A4's AWD is a full time setup.

But where have you pushed these cars??

That is fine if you feel I am wrong, even though I do partially agree. But I do know that it is very track dependant which is why I made my initial statements asking for clarification.

The S4 is different and has a different setup along with more torque helping it get out of the turns quicker.

The CL-S is harder to drive well at speed which may be why you feel as adamantly as you do. The A4 inspires more confidence even though the limits may not be too far apart. Plus, you are comparing it to your CL-S, not the CL-S6 which behaves differently due to the HLSD.

Yawn.

ok...this is getting out of hand. A4's aren't anything special in handling. AWD isn't magical, but it will help exit speeds out of turns. So you can hammer the throttle sooner in a turn than with FWD and RWD (depending on the car). And the Audi AWD being a torsen based center diff isn't really all about performance. I'd call it more of a safetly midned AWD. Systems that can give a greater torque bias are better for performance. The ones in the Evo adn Sti for examples....ir the skyline if you want to go there. Audi uses a 2:1 torque boas so only 66% of the power can to to the front or rear. Systems that allow a great torque boas will be better performers as they can get more rear wheel power when needed and still have some front wheel power for stability.

There is more to handling than FWD, RWD and AWD, There is suspension, weight distribution, weight, wheelsbase, TIRES, brakes, etc. The sporty A4's/S4's really don't handle like the 50/50 weight dist M's and 3 series. Actually, I beat plenty of modded S4's with my A4 at autoX since I am about 400 lbs lighter and have better weight balance. If you think an A4 can handle like an IS300, you are crazy. The IS300 is made for twisties like a BMW. I think when it comes down to it very few people have really been at 8-10/10's....even tho they think they drive at 10/10 every day.

Well my friend who owns a IS300 has driven my 2003 A4 many times, and said he wishes his was such a nice ride with the same handling. Mine handles just as good as his does. We both have tested the limits of our cars in safe conditions against each other. His IS300 is more rough on the bumps, mine is more smooth but controllable, but they both take the curves, and manuvers the same. You own a 2000 A4, which really does not compare to the B6 A4 (which has better suspension design) and handles much better.

this is true..I haven't driven the B6 yet and I've heard the chasis is light years better than the B5 like mine. I do have a very agressive suspension right now. So using my car as comparison isn't anything like comparing OEM sport suspension car to an IS300. I only drove an IS300 once. It was an auto, and not terribly fast. About as fast as my car with a chip give or take. With a good launch I would have won a straight line race. But I was impressied with the overall balance of the IS300 and the fact that that inline 6 was begging for a turbo. I just can't get over the weird interior of the IS.