Test drove a 330Ci this afternoon
09-16-2002, 10:35 AM
#41
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In my world - wife & two kids - my need for speed comes last, but its ok. The 330's $10K+ premium is not a small percentage difference in price. Based on the CLS's price, its 30% more. So being the "value conscious" dad I am, I didn't see getting 30% more value in the 330 in either styling, comfort or performance. Perhaps a few points, but not 30.
09-16-2002, 11:24 AM
#42
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Well I dont really miss my TLS at all. The BMW was worth it for ME. That doesnt mean it wouldnt be worth it for you. Its a good thing everyone isnt the same, or we would alll be driving the same exact car. 
As for the car in the rain.. its actually great. I wanted to see if I could slip in the rain, but it was very hard to do with the traction control on. I even have the pilot sports. As for winters.. it can be done i heard but im going to be slapping on some winter tires. Im sure it wont be bad at all. After all im happy how it performes in the rain.
p.s, this is my FIRST rwd car... and I will never go back to FWD.
As for the car in the rain.. its actually great. I wanted to see if I could slip in the rain, but it was very hard to do with the traction control on. I even have the pilot sports. As for winters.. it can be done i heard but im going to be slapping on some winter tires. Im sure it wont be bad at all. After all im happy how it performes in the rain.
p.s, this is my FIRST rwd car... and I will never go back to FWD.
09-16-2002, 11:32 AM
#43
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man, we (my family and i) have driven the biggest rear wheel drive boats in our day....cars like Lincoln Town Cars and Chevy Caprice (wagon...with fake wood siding...thank you) and countless generations of americans have been driving rear wheel drive cars since there were cars.... now with all your abs, traction control etc...it doesnt make that much of a difference. This is my first front wheel drive car...its definately different!
In the bimmer you could probably press the pedal to the floor in middle of a snow storm and the traction control will kick in.
Rain....c'mon....with modern tires I dont feel that that makes a difference at all.
It all comes down to personal preference..what you like and dislike in a car and $$$$ and whether YOU think it is worth spending it or not.
In the bimmer you could probably press the pedal to the floor in middle of a snow storm and the traction control will kick in.
Rain....c'mon....with modern tires I dont feel that that makes a difference at all.
It all comes down to personal preference..what you like and dislike in a car and $$$$ and whether YOU think it is worth spending it or not.
09-16-2002, 11:41 AM
#44
Drifting
What I can't get over is the fact that the front seats of a BMW aren't powered to let your rear passengers in and out!! LAME!!! 
Even if you don't get many rear passengers, the fact is BMW cheaped out on putting a motor on them seats. And please don't tell me that they wanted to keep the weight down.
Even if you don't get many rear passengers, the fact is BMW cheaped out on putting a motor on them seats. And please don't tell me that they wanted to keep the weight down.
09-16-2002, 12:10 PM
#45
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Originally posted by cmark
What I can't get over is the fact that the front seats of a BMW aren't powered to let your rear passengers in and out!! LAME!!!
Even if you don't get many rear passengers, the fact is BMW cheaped out on putting a motor on them seats. And please don't tell me that they wanted to keep the weight down.
What I can't get over is the fact that the front seats of a BMW aren't powered to let your rear passengers in and out!! LAME!!!
Even if you don't get many rear passengers, the fact is BMW cheaped out on putting a motor on them seats. And please don't tell me that they wanted to keep the weight down.
It's like saying..
What I can't get over is the fact that the windows of the CL-S aren't one touch UP and DOWN!! LAME!!!
09-16-2002, 12:24 PM
#46
Cost Drivers!!!!
I can't believe people are saying that RWD isn't an issue in the snow and rain :shakehd: it is an issue. Just because it didn't happen on ONE trip doesn't mean that there isn't a weakness of Front mounted RWD cars.
09-16-2002, 12:33 PM
#47
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I'll certainly agree in that FWD cars tend to drive better than RWD cars in snow. I can't comment about rain.
However, I'm pretty confident in that any issue with RWD cars and rain/snow are very manageable and shouldn't be of any real concern.
However, I'm pretty confident in that any issue with RWD cars and rain/snow are very manageable and shouldn't be of any real concern.
09-16-2002, 12:35 PM
#48
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Originally posted by Zapata
I can't believe people are saying that RWD isn't an issue in the snow and rain :shakehd: it is an issue. Just because it didn't happen on ONE trip doesn't mean that there isn't a weakness of Front mounted RWD cars.
I can't believe people are saying that RWD isn't an issue in the snow and rain :shakehd: it is an issue. Just because it didn't happen on ONE trip doesn't mean that there isn't a weakness of Front mounted RWD cars.
09-16-2002, 12:39 PM
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I have never had any issue with our 3-Series in the rain, the DSC does handle it quite well. I cannot get it to loose the read-end even the the heaviest down pours coming around a corner and get full into it. Power is cut quickly; well before control is lost.
On the snow issue, I dunno, it does really snow around here...
On the snow issue, I dunno, it does really snow around here...
09-16-2002, 12:44 PM
#51
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Crazy:
You're right, the $10k bump was worth it for you and thats all that matters. I say that sincerely.
I guess I could always take a second on the house and buy this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=1858181095
You're right, the $10k bump was worth it for you and thats all that matters. I say that sincerely.
I guess I could always take a second on the house and buy this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=1858181095
09-16-2002, 12:47 PM
#53
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My buddy has a 330Ci and slapped on some blizzaks last winter. He never once complained about the handling...
Granted, that comment isn't based on my experiences in a bimmer, but he's a good friend and I doubt he'd bullshit with me on something like that.
Granted, that comment isn't based on my experiences in a bimmer, but he's a good friend and I doubt he'd bullshit with me on something like that.
09-16-2002, 01:55 PM
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I agree that the 330ci is a superb piece of engineering. But the CLS 6MT is just as impressive and perhaps even more impressive. Why? The CLS is a bigger, heavier car with FWD and average rubber, yet according to Car&Driver it hangs with the 330ci in every category. Obviously it will not be as nimble in handling, but the additional HP makes up for some of that. The LSD even cancels some of the understeer issues of FWD while retaining the obvious advantages of winter driving. But the real engineering marvel is that the CLS is over 30% less expensive than similarly equipped 330ci.
Many people fail to realize that for USD$41K, Acura could sell you a CLS 6MT that would probably beat the 330ci in handling, performance (easily) and quality. Unfortunately nobody would pay that kind of money for a CLS! Therefore, since Acura cannot match the BMW brand name and resale value, it has to compete on price.
In the end, we are lucky to drive either car.
Many people fail to realize that for USD$41K, Acura could sell you a CLS 6MT that would probably beat the 330ci in handling, performance (easily) and quality. Unfortunately nobody would pay that kind of money for a CLS! Therefore, since Acura cannot match the BMW brand name and resale value, it has to compete on price.
In the end, we are lucky to drive either car.
09-16-2002, 02:35 PM
#56
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Originally posted by Scrib
As for the comments of the BMW sucking in rain and snow, I really find that hard to believe. Ok, yes it's a RWD car, but the tires that are put on are MUCH better than the stock that we have on our cars. Does RWD make that much of a difference in the rain? As for the snow... Well, a good set of winter tires will cure part of that.
As for the comments of the BMW sucking in rain and snow, I really find that hard to believe. Ok, yes it's a RWD car, but the tires that are put on are MUCH better than the stock that we have on our cars. Does RWD make that much of a difference in the rain? As for the snow... Well, a good set of winter tires will cure part of that.
I don’t care how many fancy gizmo’s are under the hood controlling traction, it’s just a matter of weight over the drive wheels.
Bimmers are balanced at nearly 50/50 which is great when the road is DRY, but the heavy front end of the CL or TL has the advantage when things get messy.
I’ve been driving FWD “performance” cars since 1985 (Dodge Daytona’s & Acura Legend) and have the experience to voice my opinion.
I’ve passed my share of 50,000-dollar Luxo-boats stuck in the snow over the years.
Even a few 4WD SUV’s running “all season” tires that were spinning all four in the ditches.
It’s funny as hell to see a 70,000-dollar Mercedes that can’t make it up a slight 20-degree incline when the road is glazed with an inch of packed snow.
Traction control slows the wheelspin, but if you don’t have traction - you ain’t moving.
I say pardon me as I pass by your sorry ASS with my FWD car equipped with BLIZZAK snows.
The VSA & snows worked great in my 2001 CL-S, but I am anxious to see how the LSD in the 6-SPD performs this winter once the WHITE SHIT starts falling.
Shawn S
09-17-2002, 12:59 AM
#57
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Originally posted by hemants
Good review and nothing is surprising.
A couple of points, however.
1. The BMW will suck in the snow and isn't that great in the rain either.
2. Apples to apples at the same price point, the BMW leaves much to be desired.
3. By the time you get into a fully loaded 330 you're talking almost the price of an S4 which wins over the Bimmer hands down IMO.
Good review and nothing is surprising.
A couple of points, however.
1. The BMW will suck in the snow and isn't that great in the rain either.
2. Apples to apples at the same price point, the BMW leaves much to be desired.
3. By the time you get into a fully loaded 330 you're talking almost the price of an S4 which wins over the Bimmer hands down IMO.
09-17-2002, 01:03 AM
#58
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Originally posted by Scrib
I see your point, but if something like that deters you from buying a car...
It's like saying..
What I can't get over is the fact that the windows of the CL-S aren't one touch UP and DOWN!! LAME!!!
I see your point, but if something like that deters you from buying a car...
It's like saying..
What I can't get over is the fact that the windows of the CL-S aren't one touch UP and DOWN!! LAME!!!
09-17-2002, 08:55 AM
#59
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Originally posted by azts664
mine is one touch up and down...isnt yours??
mine is one touch up and down...isnt yours??
09-17-2002, 05:35 PM
#60
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Originally posted by Scrib
Uh.... Nope. Not sure what kind of CL-S you got, but that's not something the car comes with.
Uh.... Nope. Not sure what kind of CL-S you got, but that's not something the car comes with.
09-17-2002, 05:59 PM
#61
Senior Moderator
Originally posted by azts664
i have an 03 cls w/ navi....driver's side window is definintely one touch up and down fool....urs is an 02....big difference....a lot of things can happen in one year buddy......
i have an 03 cls w/ navi....driver's side window is definintely one touch up and down fool....urs is an 02....big difference....a lot of things can happen in one year buddy......
big deal, mines a 2002 and all windows are auto up and down.
09-17-2002, 06:24 PM
#62
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Originally posted by azts664
i have an 03 cls w/ navi....driver's side window is definintely one touch up and down fool....urs is an 02....big difference....a lot of things can happen in one year buddy......
i have an 03 cls w/ navi....driver's side window is definintely one touch up and down fool....urs is an 02....big difference....a lot of things can happen in one year buddy......
09-17-2002, 06:36 PM
#63
Drifting
How about this?
For $10K more compared to the CLS, BMW should have motorized front seats
For an additional $10K, the CLS will get auto up/down windows and a bullet-proof tranny
For $10K more compared to the CLS, BMW should have motorized front seats
For an additional $10K, the CLS will get auto up/down windows and a bullet-proof tranny
09-17-2002, 08:27 PM
#64
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Originally posted by cmark
How about this?
For $10K more compared to the CLS, BMW should have motorized front seats
For an additional $10K, the CLS will get auto up/down windows and a bullet-proof tranny
How about this?
For $10K more compared to the CLS, BMW should have motorized front seats
For an additional $10K, the CLS will get auto up/down windows and a bullet-proof tranny
09-17-2002, 08:48 PM
#65
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Originally posted by cmark
What I can't get over is the fact that the front seats of a BMW aren't powered to let your rear passengers in and out!! LAME!!!
Even if you don't get many rear passengers, the fact is BMW cheaped out on putting a motor on them seats. And please don't tell me that they wanted to keep the weight down.
What I can't get over is the fact that the front seats of a BMW aren't powered to let your rear passengers in and out!! LAME!!!
Even if you don't get many rear passengers, the fact is BMW cheaped out on putting a motor on them seats. And please don't tell me that they wanted to keep the weight down.
Isnt the CLS only a 4way seat on the passenger side. With only 1 seat warmer element.
Where as the BMW is an 8way on the passenger side with 2 heating elements?
LOL, who went cheap? I think you mean they should have added that option. The motor is certainly there for it.
09-17-2002, 09:07 PM
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I think our cars should be compared to the 5 series more than the 3 series. Yes, price wise we're closer to the 3. But I feel most of us got our cars because of the size and room it has. If I wanted something smaller and more nimble I wouldn't be looking at a CL. I previously had a 5 and I think they're fairly comparable except for that last 10% in handling. It's like one guy said, do you buy the car that fits 90% of your driving needs or get one for that other 10% plus $10k more?
09-18-2002, 02:21 AM
#67
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Originally posted by Crazy Sellout
big deal, mines a 2002 and all windows are auto up and down.
big deal, mines a 2002 and all windows are auto up and down.
bullshit asshoe, only the driver's side is auto up/down.....get it right and dont u rolleyes at me u fuk...
09-18-2002, 02:28 AM
#69
Senior Moderator
Originally posted by azts664
bullshit asshoe, only the driver's side is auto up/down.....get it right and dont u rolleyes at me u fuk...
bullshit asshoe, only the driver's side is auto up/down.....get it right and dont u rolleyes at me u fuk...
BTW, my car does have auto up and down.. for both windows.
Someone end this thread and ban that dumb cocklover.
09-18-2002, 02:46 AM
#70
Senior Moderator
Originally posted by Crazy Sellout
Someone end this thread and ban that dumb cocklover.
Someone end this thread and ban that dumb cocklover.
09-18-2002, 09:00 AM
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That's funny I also have a 2002 and both of my windows are auto up and down. :P
My rear seats fold down too!
/me and crazy sellout continue to have fun while azts664 has no clue.
My rear seats fold down too!
/me and crazy sellout continue to have fun while azts664 has no clue.
09-18-2002, 09:11 AM
#75
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I hate how BMW has this awesome looking car, but you have to pay extra to get everything you want......thats one good thing about the CL/TL.....everything is standard.....except for navi.
09-18-2002, 09:26 AM
#76
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Originally posted by Nicky Pass
I hate how BMW has this awesome looking car, but you have to pay extra to get everything you want......thats one good thing about the CL/TL.....everything is standard.....except for navi.
I hate how BMW has this awesome looking car, but you have to pay extra to get everything you want......thats one good thing about the CL/TL.....everything is standard.....except for navi.
09-18-2002, 09:47 AM
#77
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Originally posted by Scrib
I was referring more to that fact that, from what I understood, you can't even get cloth on a BMW.
I was referring more to that fact that, from what I understood, you can't even get cloth on a BMW.
This car was on e-bay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=1847401268
or anthrecite/leather
Both of these would be very hard to get in the US. Cloth is possible, sevarl have gotten it. I don't think that anthrecite is happening.
Just try for a Carbon Fiber Composite CSL seat
09-18-2002, 10:04 AM
#78
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Originally posted by Scrib
Cloth seats on a bimmer? How???
Cloth seats on a bimmer? How???
All you have to do is get your salesperson to put the option code on the form when they send your build order BMW. If you know the options codes its actually REALLY quite simple. Funny thing is almost NONE Of the BMW customer reps in the US know it can be done. My sales guy had to get in touch with the BMWNA (includes Canada) customer rep supervisor (or something like that) before he found out it coudl be done.
The picks are washed out cuz of the flash but check it out!
09-18-2002, 10:07 AM
#79
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Originally posted by Nicky Pass
I hate how BMW has this awesome looking car, but you have to pay extra to get everything you want......thats one good thing about the CL/TL.....everything is standard.....except for navi.
I hate how BMW has this awesome looking car, but you have to pay extra to get everything you want......thats one good thing about the CL/TL.....everything is standard.....except for navi.
Yeah, everything is standard including your first grenaded tranny.
j/k
09-18-2002, 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by eclipse23
Yeah, everything is standard including your first grenaded tranny.
Yeah, everything is standard including your first grenaded tranny.
Shawn S