TommySalami

Shouldn't be any problems as long as your alignment is fine. It could hurt handling though because you're giving the rear a bigger contact patch which will give the car more tendency to understeer. The balance would be upset as the back would have too much grip.

Yeah... ^ what boner said.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Thanks fellas.

how much of an understeer would you feel?

TommySalami

If you don't track your car it probably wouldn't be too noticeable, and could be more than made up for by a thicker rear sway bar, but for a TL that will understeer a lot from the stock setup it's not something you would want to do for anything other than looks. Then again, the TL isn't much of a track star anyway so it's probably not an issue. If you like the look, then do it.

speedemon90

If you are planning on making the rear tires wider than the fronts, I dont think I would do that with a FWD car. Im gonna be honest with you. If I saw that on a FWD I would think the person is kinda stupid because that mostly belongs for RWD/AWD platforms.

I'm not calling you stupid just throwing out my opinion.

speedemon90

I think i went off a ltl hard haha
I'll rephrase, if you make a rear just a ltl bit bigger than the front for looks then

But dont have like 255 in the rear with 205 in the front

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

No no, if you read my post it said that I knew it looked stupid. I was just wondering the concerns or reliability issues that occur, since a lot of people on this site DO have staggered set up on a 3g TL.

But the post before yours say that there will be no repercussions other than some understeer than you won't probably notice unless you track your car.

alexSU

iTrader: (3)

This is what happens when you post in the middle of the night you guys ever sleep?? lol

Costco

Staggered wheel setups shouldn't affect wear or anything, but depending on the offset of the wheel it can cause your wheel bearings to go bad sooner than later. I've never seen it in real life but it makes sense when you think about it, but sometimes going too low of an offset can put too much stress on suspension components and can lead to something like an arm/knuckle breaking. However, going lower offset will basically increase your track width, which will improve handling. That's why you see race cars with widebody kits/flared out fenders, it allows them to both increase track width and fit wider (effectively, stickier) tires too.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Thanks Would. I knew there would have to be some kinda concerns.

speedemon90

Hmm i didnt know a lot 3G tl people have staggered setups, never went to that side of the forums since ive got a 2g tl. Cant say ive seen any staggered setups there. Ohh and im gonna guess that people wont notice it unless you track your car.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

I think there's like a post a day asking the same questions.....
How's this staggered look on my 3G!?!?!??!

I'm like damn, don't ya'll know that you have a FWD car?
but if its for looks then who cares right?

speedemon90

Yea true, thats why people slam there cars too, just for looks

speedemon90

I got a question, my friend auto x's her civic and she has alrdy done a wheel and tire upgrade (not sure which one), she's says her car still needs a suspension upgrade because it still is lacking anything. I think she has a 05 civic LX? coupe. What would be the first mod, and she's on a budget. Would you say a rear sway bar? or can she first upgrade shocks then get springs later or is it not worth upgrading shocks without springs on her car since it's not designed for performance?

alexSU

iTrader: (3)

I have to admit, I wanted a staggered setup on my 3G TL but that was like months ago.

Secondly, you can't rotate tires and that's a lot of money spent on rubber. I'm not doing that!

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

Wait, I think I'm kinda confused.. there are different type of Koni shocks? Please enlighten me because I do some epic fail crap. I just want to drop my car less than 1 inch and improve my handling performance as much as I can! What should I do then? Thanks

TommySalami

Well, the springs will determine most of your drop and the shocks may lower it more, though they are adjustable for height (at least for the TSX). The koni yellows that everyone gets are the koni sport dampers. There are other models of Konis but the sports are what you're looking for (they're yellow on the outside )

If you're still confused you can just go to the appropriate MS3 forum and see what people are doing to get a ~1" drop, and go from there. They know more than I do about the mazda 3, after all.

TommySalami

Rear sway bar will be numero uno on the list of what to upgrade (she should realize however that this will bump her up to a higher class, same for other suspension mods as well). Then, coilovers or a spring/shock combo would be a good choice that lower the front more than the rear.

Blazin Si

Sway bars work well for introducing understeer on the older Honda models. The '02+ Civic's have cheap MacPherson strut type suspension in the rear, so it may affect it differently.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Good Point! I never thought about that.

speedemon90

Ok thanks, and I'll let her know that she will be bumped up

wait a rear sway bar wont introduce understeer, it will lessen it, right?

Costco

a bigger rear sway bar will increase oversteer

TommySalami

Yeah. You would think that's a bad thing, but on FWD cars that understeer it makes things more neutral

Blazin Si

Yeah, my mistake. I meant to say oversteer.

fsttyms1

But you still arent helping to solve the front end rolling. You really should replace BOTH sways. You will get much better handling by doing so. Especially matched sets.
Plus once you really do learn how to drive you dont want lots of oversteer. My TL before the sway bar upgrade could get the back end out very easy. Upgrading just the rear to allow it to happen more is not something i want on the track. Upgrading to both front and rear made it corner much flatter with a very neutral drive.

speedemon90

Yea thats what I've heard, because a bigger front sway bar will increase oversteer but also cause less roll in the front. And the best thing to do is find that sweet spot between front and rear stiffness to get the most neutral handling.

alexSU

iTrader: (3)

Kind of suspension related but anyways, are some tires heavier then others? if yes, how much of a difference are we talking? Use 235/35/19 as an example.

I'm searching google right now to see if I can answer my own question, will post if I find anything.

fsttyms1

Go to Tirerack. They show the specs of all the tires (that they sell) enter in the size and then check the specs. The weight is there. And yes, tire weight varies from tire to tire.

fsttyms1

You can get stiffer sways that will help reduce the roll but yet still increase the rear stiffness to make it more neutral. I dont understand why so many like just upgrading the rear to make it that way. You still arent helping the front stay flat that way. Another thing is a good set of adjustable shocks. The Konis are rebound and dampening. Dampening is easy to adjust by turning the knob, dampening is a different animal (at least on the TL shock) as you have to take it off the car take the spring off and compress the shock and turn it. It takes time (took me a good day and a half to get it set where i want it. Rome wasnt built in a day) but the improvements in the ride and handling are well worth taking the proper steps. With a good set of adjustable shocks you can stiffen the front or rear that extra little bit to dial the suspension in.

alexSU

iTrader: (3)

Thanks

speedemon90

I see, there is a lot to learn haha. Im not into the suspension game yet, but I will when I get my next car and after I have gotten tired of stock so it may be a while. But there is a LOT to learn. And I actually want to learn than just throw stuff on not knowing much. I want to learn how to fine tune the car like dampening and rebounding. I do not know what to look for. Yes I can drive but unless I'm on a track and I've had experience there's really no way I can tell if what I'm doing benefits the car or not.

I've heard that a lot of novice people mistake a stiffer car for handling better. Just because the car is stiffer does not necessarily it handles better than before. Yes some stiffness is good but there's a limit to everything and to much of anything is bad, and that is the line I need to learn how to find.

I need to do what morning would did and take some kind of suspension class, to bad they dont offer any auto classes at my college. I may need to check out a local community college some summer when im not so busy. Only 19, still got lots of time to learn

Shoofin

I changed the springs on my Clubman a while back but haven't had the chance to give it an alignment until the other day. The tech was able to adjust the front end to factory spec, but was not able to adjust the rear to factory spec. Factory is -1.75, closest the adjustment got was -2.30 to -2.40. I would probably have to replace the control arms with something more adjustable. As a result the rear end does have some decent negative camber in it's stance. I doubt the -.5 to -.6 difference is negligible, but this thing seriously handles like it's on rails, taking every turn I can possibly push it into like a champ. I only wonder how much different it's going to feel once I install the rear sway bar that's been sitting in the box for the last 8 months. I wish I did the install of the RSB when I did the springs because in this car, the entire rear end suspension and subframe assembly needs to drop to get to and replace the sway bar which is why i've been hesitating doing it...

speedemon90

You might wanna read a couple comments above yours about the rear and front sway bars. If you are upgrading the rear, especially if its quite a bit larger than stock, I would try to upgrade the front also. Because the mini(not sure about the clubman but im guessing it also applies) is alrdy pretty neutral in handling right? Probably a ltl more on the side of understeer but still its pretty neutral, so putting a much bigger RSB than stock will probably make you oversteer quite a bit and you may loose that neutrality that the car had. So think about upgrading to a bigger FSB also?

This is just my opinion, I may be wrong since well I'm kinda new to this, but I believe what i said makes some sense? I dunno think about it and ask the others that are more educated than me haha

Costco

I'm so glad I took a shitload of auto classes at my CC. Even though I found that a career in auto wasn't the thing for me, I'll have the knowledge and experience I've gained from those classes for the rest of my life. So much better than all the money I spent taking science and math classes.

and I agree, the best thing to do is to get a matched set of sways. Just like springs/shocks, stiffer isn't better, and again, the suspension components have to work well together to have a neutral handling car. Some people even get adjustable sways to give them the exact performance that they want, but that's more for hardcore autox people.

jnc2000

Just another thing to add. Play with your tire pressure. Drop the PSI in the rear and it'll allow the tail to wag a little easier. Side to side adjustments as well as front to rear of just a few PSI can make a big difference.

I personally stagger my AWD 40psi front, 36psi rear

speedemon90

I've heard tire pressures make a big difference. I wanna try it out, but I probably won't be able to tell on public roads. I just have 32 psi all around. Thats what the recommended tire pressure is i believe.I know more tire pressure also makes the side wall stiffer so it should increase handling right? Is it better to go above recommended tire pressure??

TommySalami

If you see people at the track with chalk on the edge of their tire, this is to tell how far over it's rolling onto the sidewall, so they can adjust their tire pressure to minimize it. People do that a lot at autox at least, myself included

speedemon90

so putting more tire pressure will cause the tire to roll on its side less?

WillrunifChased

Yes.

Dan1629

I have a staggered set up on my type s (3g). When I bought my car new I have to say I was disappointed in the handling. My car is way heavy in the front and really light in the tail. I would go in to a turn and the car would bury its nose and the back would come loose every time. Guess you could say the car has terrible balance. I changed out the suspension to the a-spec suspension and put a 10 inch tire in the rear (265/30/19). The result of doing this improved the handling more than even I thought it would. When I put the car into an aggressive turn now The car plants the tail just a hard as the front, so much so that I can get the car to do a balanced drift no under steer no over steer.

speedemon90

I dont drive a 3g tl, but something just tells me you're a ltl wrong. Maybe someone who's driven a 3g will say something. But your car should be understeering more than you should oversteer, right? Are you cornering correctly? If you are breaking to hard and going into the corner while still breaking and your not using the trailbreaking method your car should probably not oversteer. But I am assuming your car is stock. Do you have any mods done which stiffens the rear a lot because that can cause it to oversteer. If not you are not driving correctly. These tl's and most front heavy FWD cars should understeer a lot more than they oversteer. Plus car manufacturers increase understeer because it is safer and easier to control