EricL

Splice-o-matic job of baseline vs everything (for those that must know what MM/I/H/E compares to stock):

JRock

Wow, kickass man. Thanks for going through the trouble of splicing that!

So this was in 92F weather? I wonder how much gain would be had in 70F weather (or even the 55-65F it is right now in MD).

BSK181

what is h/e/i ?

Scooter

Headers
Exhaust
Intake

Zapata

wow, that means the car is putting out close to 305hp and and 250 ft/lbs of torque at the flywheel. Shit, we need more torque 3.5 L upgrade anyone?

JRock

Torque is what breaks transmissions (IMO), so we need a stronger transmission before we need more torque. That strain off the line is what hurts the car, not going through the gears quickly with horsepower.

EricL

The torque is closer to 260 lb-ft if you want to just scale off the ratio of the 202/180 = 1.122. Stock TLS/CLS torque is 232 (3500-5500) so multiply the 232 by 1.122. Result is a hair above 260 lb-ft. The torque from 4K to 6K with the MM is sitting very close to 200 lb-ft where the stock only peaks up and actually spends a good chunk of time around 175 lb-ft.

If I have more time, I would like to draw some arrows where the shift points are (in various gears) on a full speed run to locate the rpm "entry" points per gear


Remember that syncivic did these tests in 90+ heat. The dyno software corrects back to "standard conditions", but I would wait about drawing "final" conclusions until the units get distributed to different people for MORE dynos in different conditions.

Zapata

EricL,
Hmmmm, so you think that there is more power that isn't being shown? Wow, 305 and 260 is pretty damn impressive. That's nearing M3 numbers. Well, sorta 333 and 260 but the supercharger should make up the difference really easy. Now all that is getting in our way is the conservative gearing. Ho hum. I love my car....i'm not complaining

EricL

RE: More power not being shown -- don't know -- will need to see the before and after dynos of the "tests" -- could be higher or lower. I would be stupid to say I knew (sorry)...

RE: Remember the new M3 has the manual box too -- look around, I noticed that are some problems to get dynos above 6500 rpm (without tricks). FYI -- the RWH stopped around 257HP @ 6500. That means a lot more HP would be showing-up at the rear wheels at peak!

RE: forth gear – just too tall, torque to pavement is weak

EricL

This link can't be right.... Old M3 vs new M3 dynos...

http://www.activeautowerke.com/dyno/...20E46%20M3.asp

JZ

First off, it is almost impossible to get RWhp from a new M3 because the car cuts power when not enough air is getting into the engine at speed and I was reading that you have to do a whole shitload of things to trick the car into giving you a dyno run.

Next, I still drool over the power of a fully modded (forget the supercharger) 6 speed CLS.

If you say 310HP with headers, CAI, pulleys, MM and exhaust then you would only be losing about 34hp due to the tranny in a manual and would be putting down nearly 280hp. Connect that through fat tires and lightweight rims, as well as good gear ratios and 100lbs lighter for a manual, and the "luxury cruiser" is going to be a friggin' missle! Who has the 1/4mile time calculator to estimate times?

Gotta be well under 13 with all this stuff.

Seriously, at this point the supercharger is going to be superfulous except for the really crazy people who don't want to be able to idle the car without peeling out.

My feelings are that the only way I would have ever even thought about the supercharger is if none of these other mods were available. I'll leave this to some of the other members of the board.

JRock

Look, forget the SC and forget the manual. Those are two things most people aren't going to get.

Let's focus on what is for REAL:

CAI
Headers
Exhaust
Pulleys
Densos
RES

Put all that on a stock CL-S/TL-S and you're looking at some decent performance. That is exciting.

Trying to talk about a manual transmission is all a bunch of hot air until people start showing up at these boards with manual tranny CL-Ses.

I think with the mods available plus some lightweight rims and sticky tires, you're looking at close to 14-flat at the track in cool weather. That's my prediction. We'll see.

Talk about manual tranny though, is just silly.

Oh and the gearing on an E46 ///M3 will kick our car's ASS. That sucker just PULLS like crazy right to the redline.

Maybe with an SC we could take it but that's taking our car to transmission-trouble area.

EricL

Exactly -- there is another picture of a dyno run that clearly stops at 6500 RPM showing 250 HP.

I was looking around and depending on who's doing the talking, they mention the 4 wheel dyno, pulling fuses, bringing big fans, and who knows what else...

I hope when they (Acura) puts in the 6-speed, the gears are optimized for the top-end power. The new M3 makes much more HP, but not that much more torque (based on the dynos) I've seen. The new one does have one very flat torque curve and resulting HP gains all the way up.


Slightly higher torque (over wider power band) + 80 more top end HP (at higher RPM) means that lower effective gearing can be used to get more torque (force) at the wheels (F/m = a) for more acceleration.

(so, the torque is interesting [yes/no]?)

To make the NEW manual CLS a killer, it should have the ratios adjusted to get enough power to take advantage of the add-ons. The question will be -- will they... (And don't forget about the need for some kick-butt tires and wheels to keep from just spinning the tires all day long)

As far as low 13-second runs -- FWD traction can be a bitch. I guess we will see if they target the manual ratios for "enthusiasts" (not economy)


IMO -- Without supercharger – NO WAY!

Assume a little over 15% loss (10% is just too low – IMO)
310 HP – 45 HP = 265HP to wheels

Drop 100 lbs for manual (3525[navi ver] – 100)

3425 + small driver + tank fumes = 3425 + 100 (jockey) + 25 = 3550

Over to NHRA calc (oh, bench engineering I go…):

http://www.prestage.com/carmath/calc_etmph.asp

13.85 seconds (forget about the time calc) for 3550 + 265 HP

For reference take 240HP & 3650 (reg car, 1/8 tank, small driver)
14.4 seconds (no wheels)

Figure in Toyo/SSR 300lb equivalent weight drop (Rotational mass/weight 50lbs * 6) and its 13.6 (in lieu of 13.8) ???

(Remember, aerodynamic forces come into play along with weight xfer – who knows)

JZ

Woops--I meant well under 14! Still exciting, though.

And JROCK, I can talk about the manual until my fingers bleed if I please :P :P

JZ

Oh yeah, one other thing.

We all must understand that Acura will give the CLS 6 speed the most aggressive gearing possible that will maintain or better its current MPG. No doubt on that one. Only would a type R skimp on gas mileage for performance.

EricL

I also think that a cool day (at near zero elevation) will allow a 14 sec 1/4 mile with goodies described -- Cool weather is coming