scalbert

That sounds good and very respectable. I made 247 WHP NA with just a couple of well placed mods. Last dyno I was 323 WHP with a blower and now nearing 400 WHP.

Regardless, all of these things are great for us V6 FWD guys. The I4 imports have had the spot light for some time and now things are changing. Any rivalry is just in fun. I previously owned an GTP so I have been in this for some time. We all do get along but some questioning is expected along with some playful jabs.

This is just an open discussion; we welcome everyone. We just want open and honest answers so we can all learn and benefit. As such, direct questions will be asked.

scalbert

It wasn't calling BS, it was wanting clarification. These things are not mysteries; X power can only accelerate Y weight at a certain rate. It is all for the benefit of us all V6ers.

SR20DEN

Perhaps I just held out longer and you folded first.

Jime_RENAMED

Actually having a "slush box" makes it more difficult because more power is being robbed and they break much easier, I also believe its more thrilling, everybody at the track at my level is racing a manual.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

You guys seriously don't get it. What he was saying is that with the "slush box" it is easier to go fast because the room for the driver to make mistakes (missed shifts, etc) is eliminated. Trust me scalbert, as well as the majority of the members on the board know that you will put more to the wheels with a manual than you will with an automatic.

mattg

perhaps :o

SR20DEN

Yeah, sometimes I kinda wish I had a wimp shift at the track. I can only get a few races out of the Aichi 6 speed before the 3rd gear synchro succumbs to my speed shifting and causes me to miss 3rd.

Jime_RENAMED

I know what he was saying and actually we do get it. But this discussion is about hardware and how to get the best out of it, not how good someone is at driving, thats a given.

Anyone can go fast easy in a manual too, it doesn't take much raw talent to shift gears. If it did there would be a whole lot less people at the track. Racing an auto doesn't take anything away from the driver, if you think it does, YOU DON'T REALLY GET IT.

Driving the car after you get to the track and getting a great time is the result having done your homework properly. This is really the icing on the cake after a lot of hard work, trial and error, calculating etc etc not really where talent at coordinating the movement of your hands and feet is displayed.

darrinb

244 whp is great n/a matt, but i was hoping to get 250 with the u-chip

mattg

maybe you will

darrinb

well you have a catback, lighter wheels, additional few ponies from the icebox

i'll let u know what i put down when i get the chip in

scalbert

This is a first.

Regardless of what you may feel, an automatic is more consistent, that is not debatable. You can botch shifts easily with a manual, also not debatable. Manuals do lose less power but can blow a run with a missed shift, which is removed primarily in the automatic. In FWD vehicles (and many RWD), most automatics put down quicker short times even though the may be putting down less power.

Heck, I'm beginning to see that this seems to be a debate for debating purposes.

First we have, it is easier to make power than it is to reduce weight. Now we have automatics are more thrilling to drive. What crazy idea is next?? The Israelis and Palestinians are going to have a group hug.

scalbert

Yes, many people can run a manual quick. But it isn't about shifting, it is about the launch. This is by far more difficult in a manual since another pedal comes into play. And you never just pop the clutch.

The very nature of the torque converter helps absorb some of the potential driver screw ups. This makes the hardware easier to use and more consitant in going fast relative to what it can acheive.

Jime_RENAMED

I didn't say it wasn't more consistent, just that it doesn't take a rocket scientist to drive a manual and get good results. This is proven out every day the track is open. If moving your hand back and forth is thrilling for you I would suggest another sport that can be done in privacy that may thrill you even more.

I started drag racing in the 60's when driving a 4 speed was the standard, so everyone jsut learned how to do it fairly well. Today we have people that need a write up and pictures to install a strut brace. I saw a thread on how to remove the oil filter that had 42 responses on how to do it properly. It seems common sense and logic has been lost in the shuffle.

And it is much easier to make power than reduce weight. That is careful thought out weight reduction, not just removing the spare tire.

Power can be bought, weight reduction requires thought.

scalbert

You seem to have forgotten about the third pedal; implementing it during the launch is critical. You also cannot relate previous RWD vehicles to FWD manuals. Have you tried launching a high powered FWD manual?? And yes, driving a manual is more thrilling as it is more involved. And please keep your masturbation jokes to your self; this is not high school.

Lastly, power cannot be bought if there is nothing to purchase. Designing, machining and testing your own parts is not simple otherwise everyone would be doing it. Anyone can remove a spare tire or a rear seat.

This is pointless...

Jime_RENAMED

Well I guess that 3rd pedal is a real challenge to some.

Turbo's, S/C's and nitrous can all be bought and installed on most cars with a bit of work and does not require designing and machining etc.

Our engine has taken up to a 375 HP shot of nitrous on stock internals so I really can't see the requirement for doing what you are suggesting unless you have a very weak engine to start with. Unless of course you are trying to get well under the 10 sec 1/4 mark.

Stock engine internals and transmission will handle 11 sec 1/4's and I really don't think I will push my 4 door family sedan beyond that.

scalbert

No, that 3rd pedal is a challenge when launching well. You don't just pop it. You have to coordinate the gas and clutch which to do well is difficult on a higher powered car.

I beleive you have forgotten what forum you are on. A 375 HP shot on the VQ, OK. But we are on a CL forum which runs the J32 engine. Anyway, yes a SC kit can be purchased (there are no turbo kits available, if that is desired it needs to be made) but that only goes so far. What if you want even more out of it, custom design needs to be started.

Or if you want to stay NA and make more power, the power adders are limited.

But I will agree, if drag racing is your intention, then increasing the shot size is easy as nitrous should be the only big power adder. But if you are looking to get more out of the car than running at the strip, it becomes more difficult to make power and do it reliably. This, I beleive, is why we are on two different track as the intended goal is different.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

When did I say or even imply that driving an auto took away anything from the driver? Hell, I take my auto to the track. I was only saying the margin for error is FAR FAR FAR greater with a manual transmission than it is with an automatic.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

Nice little poem you came up with there. But I beg to differ. How is it that hard to lighten a car. Gut the interior for one, next get lighter wheels and tires, and if you want to go extreme replace the body panels and glass with lighter alternatives. Seems like you are trying to turn weight reduction into rocket science.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

Exactly! Not a single person on this forum is designing the CL-S to go 1/4mile at a time and that's it. 99.9% of the car owners on this site drive their car on the street and modify their car to bring it to it's fullest potential. Saying people spray a 375 shot on stock internals, while impressive, really isn't relevant whatsoever in this disucssion and is far from practical for street applications.

Chaptorial

Nice vid, fast ass Maxima.

mattg

i believe we all saw the video of the 350Z w/ a 300+ shot. it exploded.

Jime_RENAMED

I think I understand what you guys are after now. You want a fast street racing car. Thats the difference between us, I don't race on the street and I don't race with street tires at the track, thats why traction is not an issue even for a manual trans car.

Actually spraying 375 HP is relevant because if you have internals that can handle that power there is no need to beef up the engine which is what you guys are talking about. You can run pretty much any S/C, Turbo or nitrous setup you want.

Also a turbo and S/C can be adapted to work on any car you do not need a KIT its mainly exhaust and intake work which can be done very easily by a local shop if you don't have the resources for not a whole lot of money. It also takes a lot less talent than trying to modify the internals. But unless you know the max power it will handle you will never know what it is capable of or if you really need to beef it up.

PS The Z that blew up with the 375 shot also did not fail because the engine couldn't handle the power there was a nitrous malfunction that caused the explosion.

mattg

yeah, i'm sure it could have taken a 500 shot.

mattg

oh, and please point me in the direction of a shop that can slap a turbo kit on my car "very easily" and for "not a whole lot of money".

scalbert

Wrong again. It is not to street race, it is to have power whenever we want it. Part throttle driving is also enhanced making the overall driving enjoyment greater. Plus, it is nice to have more power on a road course or the mountain drive. It is not about racing, it is about increasing the overall capability.

If I were in this solely for winning at the drag strip I would have picked a different vehicle.

I suggest leaving this discussion to your excellent run. You are expanding beyond what appears to be your knowledge base and are making incorrect statements. Adding forced induction is more than plumbing. You have oiling issues, mounting issues not to mention fuel enhancement and spark control. Although it isn't rocket science, it is beyond what most people are comfortable with and who can pull out seats and buy light weight components.

And BTW, traction is still an issue with slicks.

rezurex

+1 rep for scalbert.

Maximized

Racing a manual takes a lot more talent than racing an auto. With an auto the computer does the majority of the work for you. I can argue that drag racing really doesn't take much talent at the level you are at, especially in a FWD car. IMO if you are into drag racing, a Maxima is a poor platform to use.

rezurex

he did admit that the maxima was a family sedan. the fact that he brought a car not designed for speeds that he accomplished on the track is impressive.

well, the engine may have been designed for power. but certainly not the rest of the car.

IMO even the CL is not such a great car to use for drag. but then again i dont have a car like scalbert does, so i guess im not qualified to say

mattg

i like the fact that i drive a car that is not expected to be that quick.

i like the reaction from the people at the track. the looks on their face when they find out it's a 3500lb fwd auto with heated leather seats...

when i ran 13.2 last time i was at the track, i was one of (if not the) quickest cars there on street tires.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

Again, you are still having trouble comprehending what scalbert, myself, and others are trying to say. We aren't building a "street racing car." I'll refer you to scalbert's post because I feel he explained it best. Especially when he said we didn't buy our cars to be 1/4 mile monsters. If that was our goal we wouldn't have bought this car.

Your ignorance is really showing when you make statements about turbo and S/C applications that can be applied by any local shop because all it requires is "plumbing." Sure anyone can slap on a half-assed turbo set-up but it will not be reliable or safe for the engine. Remember we are playing with a high compression ratio from the factory. Our margin to play with boost before we run into problems is very small. Fuel injection and spark are KEY to keeping our engines running safe when FI is applied. This is something that "a local shop" isn't going to be able to accomplish without extensive testing; something that will require hours and hours of R&D and that of course equals $$$.

We have seen many cases of the VQ engine dying when a turbo or S/C is applied. They are great motors and the torque the produce is something to envy for an engine of it's size. But don't go out making claims that it can handle such a hugh shot of N2O without problems arising shortly thereafter.