View Poll Results: Who will Win: SC430 or TLS
SC430 easily - by more than 1 car length
14
19.72%
SC430 barely
18
25.35%
TLS barely
27
38.03%
TLS easily - by more than a car length
6
8.45%
Tie - less than a 10th of a sec difference
6
8.45%
Voters: 71. You may not vote on this poll
SC430 vs TLS: at the Track, who will win
03-08-2003, 10:06 AM
#41
Suzuka Master
Originally posted by RUF87
Correction, I had the faster time both races.
Ruf
Correction, I had the faster time both races.
Ruf
03-08-2003, 10:30 AM
#43
Happy CL-S Pilot
You know how to launch your TLS.... any secrets you can share, how did you prep ur ride... weight reduction? tire pressure and weather conditions....?
You did not beat your best personal record in your sig? (Pre-IceBox)
Congrats! Those numbers are
You did not beat your best personal record in your sig? (Pre-IceBox)
Congrats! Those numbers are
03-08-2003, 12:12 PM
#45
Lead Footed
Thread Starter
Originally posted by sidemarker
good job with proving me wrong
i think its safe to say that you have one of the fastest tl-s in the world!!!!!
sidemarker
good job with proving me wrong
i think its safe to say that you have one of the fastest tl-s in the world!!!!!
sidemarker
It's the wheels mostly. Honest.
I'm beating them off the line and then they have to play catch-up. And unless you have a much faster car, it's real tough to do. As you can see the SC430 was producing a better topend (MPH), which means he was closing on me.
If we would have run to 105MPH, I bet he would have been right beside me and smiling as he was pulling away.
Ruf
03-08-2003, 12:21 PM
#46
Administrator Alumnus
Originally posted by RUF87
If we would have run to 105MPH, I bet he would have been right beside me and smiling as he was pulling away.
If we would have run to 105MPH, I bet he would have been right beside me and smiling as he was pulling away.
However, those are great times. I'm really impressed!
Congrats!
03-08-2003, 12:32 PM
#47
Lead Footed
Thread Starter
Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
Nice work Ruf!!!
Nice work Ruf!!!
But you are right, my car minus wheels would have had a slower 1/4 mile time.
However, I would have still beat him because of my R/T (reaction time).
On the races where I wasn't playing it safe I was averaging a .565 R/T.
On the ones I was out for the kill my quickest R/T was .134 and my slowest was .234.
So I'm really beating technically quicker cars with my driving. And that was always my point in why I believed I had a chance against someone with less than a second advantage.
On the 2nd run my R/T advantage over the SC430 was .467 seconds. So if you take that off of an average TLS 1/4 time, the other car needs to be in the 14.23 range to beat me in a 1/4 mile drag race.
Now add my more agressive launch, which beat him hum by .154 secs, He would have had to run a 14.07 to beat me.
So, hopefully this expains why some folks called BS when I would beat a WRX or something running low 14s, but now you see how it is possible.
Ruf
03-08-2003, 12:53 PM
#48
Happy CL-S Pilot
Wow... 0.467 R/T is a redlight with not timeslip! 0.134 and .234 is even worst... Sportsman tree are 500ms and Pro trees are 400ms.... Redlight is considered a loss in the world of drag racing ...
03-08-2003, 01:06 PM
#49
Lead Footed
Thread Starter
Originally posted by Nashua_Night_Hawk
Wow... 0.467 R/T is a redlight with not timeslip! 0.134 and .234 is even worst... Sportsman tree are 500ms and Pro trees are 400ms.... Redlight is considered a loss in the world of drag racing ...
Wow... 0.467 R/T is a redlight with not timeslip! 0.134 and .234 is even worst... Sportsman tree are 500ms and Pro trees are 400ms.... Redlight is considered a loss in the world of drag racing ...
Ruf
03-08-2003, 01:33 PM
#50
Lead Footed
Thread Starter
Originally posted by Nashua_Night_Hawk
You know how to launch your TLS.... any secrets you can share, how did you prep ur ride... weight reduction? tire pressure and weather conditions....?
You did not beat your best personal record in your sig? (Pre-IceBox)
Congrats! Those numbers are
You know how to launch your TLS.... any secrets you can share, how did you prep ur ride... weight reduction? tire pressure and weather conditions....?
You did not beat your best personal record in your sig? (Pre-IceBox)
Congrats! Those numbers are
There are no true secrets. Just prep and practice.
There are no rules of thumb because there are so many variables.
Wheels, tires, weight, weather, track surface, track temperature, vehical condidition, and plain old driver skills - even for an automatic.
All I can suggest is that you test out your cars launching abilities. Does it work best powerbraking? And a what RPM. or is it best to just punch and go. Each of the above variables will results in a different approach.
As far as preping the car. I make sure it's clean (no heavy dirt) , recent oil change, good running condition, (I put an injector cleaner in a few days before a race meet) alignment, etc. While one may sound silly, every little thing adds up. So while something may only add .001, a few of these would have added up for Inferno to beat my best time. So it always adds up.
Then there are the basic tricks. I usually like to show up with an 1/8 of a tank or less. In this case it was a bit more, but you don't want to be a 1/2 tank. Especially with lower torque cars like ours. 50lbs to us is like 100lbs or more to the SC430.
Then depending on track conditions you lower your tire pressure. The first test run I had a killer reaction time, but I had soooo much wheel spin (1 thru most of 2nd) that I ran a 16.45 :o
So a few test runs to work out the kinks are key to putting consitent back-to-back runs. I ended up dropping tire pressure to 25lbs and the rest of the night I was putting very consistent runs together.
Here are my 4 consecutive runs after working it out.
14.711
14.700
14.681
14.704 (Note - on this run I backed off the launch a bit because they just mopped my lane down. I didn't want to risk too much wheel spin. Otherwise I bet I would have dropped my time again.)
So the difference between the highest and lowest time was .03 secs (that's 3 hundredths!)
The next time we go racing I go through the whole process again.
Ruf
03-08-2003, 02:53 PM
#52
Lead Footed
Thread Starter
Originally posted by Nashua_Night_Hawk
So in your case what was best Brake torque or feathering the accelerator pedal... if BT at what rpm?
Thanks
So in your case what was best Brake torque or feathering the accelerator pedal... if BT at what rpm?
Thanks
Remember, your results will vary. If I had wider tires I would probably not drop the pressure that much. That will hurt your top end as lower tire pressure results in rolling resitance trade-offs.
There's always trade-offs and that's why you should always get your "tuning runs" in before your serious passes.
Ruf
03-08-2003, 04:33 PM
#54
Senior Moderator
i knew you'd beat him
but where are those ice box gains everyone has been raving about
but where are those ice box gains everyone has been raving about
03-08-2003, 06:31 PM
#56
Sucky Drifter
Join Date: Mar 2001
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I thought reaction times dont mean anything when you drag race? It only means something whenever you're bracket racing.
Ruf: Seems like you're getting really good traction considering your mph so low. Those T1-S better be good for the price you paid for them. Maybe that's why you're brake torqueing and getting some good ass traction. What was your 60' time??
Btw: The best method that I found to launch my TL-S was when you get to the line, dont brake torque (too much spin), and just mash on the gas when the last yellow light comes on...it gets me consistent .600 reaction times with a 60' of 2.24(best) to 2.35 seconds. Also, I gate shift whenever I drag because first gear redlines at a high rpm but you have to practice on your shifting points because in some cases, you will hit the rev limiter. All these techniques added up to a quarter mile time of 14.625@96mph on some 19" chrome Work Euroline wheels with some Nitto nt555 tires. The only mods that i have is an AEM CAI and the HKS Super Dragger exhaust (don't help).
Also, I believe that a TLS/CLS against a Lexus GS4/SC4 is a drivers race at the track or street redlight....on the highway...thats another story.
Ruf: CONGRATS on your win man.....!!! I'm proud of you...AGP
Ruf: Seems like you're getting really good traction considering your mph so low. Those T1-S better be good for the price you paid for them. Maybe that's why you're brake torqueing and getting some good ass traction. What was your 60' time??
Btw: The best method that I found to launch my TL-S was when you get to the line, dont brake torque (too much spin), and just mash on the gas when the last yellow light comes on...it gets me consistent .600 reaction times with a 60' of 2.24(best) to 2.35 seconds. Also, I gate shift whenever I drag because first gear redlines at a high rpm but you have to practice on your shifting points because in some cases, you will hit the rev limiter. All these techniques added up to a quarter mile time of 14.625@96mph on some 19" chrome Work Euroline wheels with some Nitto nt555 tires. The only mods that i have is an AEM CAI and the HKS Super Dragger exhaust (don't help).
Also, I believe that a TLS/CLS against a Lexus GS4/SC4 is a drivers race at the track or street redlight....on the highway...thats another story.
Ruf: CONGRATS on your win man.....!!! I'm proud of you...AGP
03-08-2003, 06:34 PM
#57
Sucky Drifter
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Nashua: If you're getting a huge amount of wheel hop, it means that there's too my power during your launch. Try launching without any brake torque and see if you get more traction. What times are you running?? Maybe that would clear up why you're not running the times you wanna run. What's your 60' times??
03-08-2003, 07:05 PM
#58
Happy CL-S Pilot
the 1/4 miles times.. are in the signuatre below just click on the link... I had 4 more runs on Oct 2002... I find out the times.
My 60" are around 2.35...
My 60" are around 2.35...
Code:
Track Date Time R/T 60' 330' 1/8 1/8 MPH 1000' 1/4 1/4 MPH C&D Weight T.P. Fr/RR Shift Temp. BT New England Dragway 13/OCT/00 9:08 PM .995 2.370 6.590 10.002 72.08 12.961 15.461 90.31 New England Dragway 13/OCT/00 9:49 PM .627 2.712 7.681 11.267 70.00 14.286 16.817 89.40 New England Dragway 21/APR/01 8:06 PM .706 2.902 7.494 10.886 73.14 13.788 16.223 92.82 New England Dragway 21/APR/01 9:04 PM .995 2.370 6.590 10.002 72.08 12.961 15.461 90.31 New England Dragway 21/APR/01 9:26 PM .558 2.800 7.166 10.569 72.87 13.482 15.925 92.77 New England Dragway 18/JUL/01 7:07 PM .784 2.322 6.487 09.841 73.50 12.742 15.189 92.30 New England Dragway 18/JUL/01 7:47 PM 1.194 2.431 6.658 10.055 72.35 13.000 15.479 91.29 New England Dragway 18/JUL/01 8:39 PM .509 2.408 6.517 09.843 73.79 12.730 15.171 92.46 New England Dragway 18/SEP/01 7:09 PM .346 2.473 6.662 10.021 73.56 12.919 15.362 92.40 New England Dragway 18/SEP/01 7:51 PM .714 2.515 6.786 10.212 71.92 13.185 15.690 90.16 New England Dragway 18/SEP/01 8:52 PM .341 2.409 6.553 09.904 73.36 12.813 15.268 91.93 New England Dragway 18/SEP/01 9:39 PM .650 2.422 6.526 09.862 73.03 12.772 15.226 92.01 New England Dragway 06/APR/02 2:15 PM 1.283 2.374 6.433 09.713 74.97 12.556 14.953 94.18 3632 Lb 36/36 lb SS /R.L. 47 No New England Dragway 06/APR/02 2:44 PM 1.208 2.397 6.421 09.686 75.20 12.525 14.926 93.99 3630 Lb 36/36 lb D123/R.L. 47 No New England Dragway 06/APR/02 3:14 PM 1.207 2.337 6.468 09.766 74.86 12.613 15.014 94.08 3628 Lb 28/36 lb D123/R.L. 47 No New England Dragway 06/APR/02 3:27 PM .933 2.314 6.337 09.595 75.47 12.421 14.805 94.69 3630 Lb 28/36 lb D123/R.L. 46 1800 New England Dragway 06/APR/02 3:39 PM .964 2.326 6.330 09.578 75.53 12.405 14.790 94.61 3630 Lb 28/36 lb D123/R.L. 46 1800 New England Dragway 06/APR/02 3:44 PM .886 2.283 6.269 09.503 75.98 12.313 14.688 95.13 3630 Lb 28/36 lb D123/R.L. 47 2000 New England Dragway 06/APR/02 4:04 PM 1.178 2.318 6.308 09.536 76.16 12.337 14.696 95.75 3628 Lb 28/36 lb D123/R.L. 46 2000 New England Dragway 06/APR/02 4:08 PM 1.099 2.314 6.277 09.506 75.67 12.615 14.691 95.19 3628 Lb 28/36 lb D123/R.L. 45 2000 New England Dragway 06/APR/02 4:13 PM .605 2.254 6.219 09.450 75.80 12.255 14.613 95.81 3626 Lb 28/36 lb D123/R.L. 43 2000 New England Dragway 06/APR/02 4:17 PM .540 2.382 6.328 09.532 76.64 12.311 14.655 96.36 3622 Lb 28/36 lb D123/R.L. 42 2000 New England Dragway 06/APR/02 4:21 PM .641 2.350 6.333 09.566 75.82 12.367 14.725 95.77 3622 Lb 28/36 lb D123/R.L. 42 1800 New England Dragway 06/APR/02 4:24 PM 1.112 2.325 6.257 09.471 76.09 12.269 14.623 95.97 3622 Lb 28/36 lb D123/R.L. 42 2000
03-08-2003, 07:29 PM
#60
Happy CL-S Pilot
Originally posted by AGPExTreMe
nashua: why are you unhappy with your times?? that seems very good for just an intake...
nashua: why are you unhappy with your times?? that seems very good for just an intake...
The reality is that weather alone can swing and affect 1/4 times more than all bolt-on mods..
For example, a stock CLS would show times in mid 14s (~14.6-14.8s) in good weather 40F Low Humidity and Hi Atmospheric Pressure....
A moded CLS would struggle to break below 15s in the heat of the summer..
Finally, my last runs (October 2002) with all bolts-on I have were a consistent 14.7s in 100% Humidity and low pressure (The import wars was cancelled due to rain)...
This April 5th I would be at NED for new runs... we will see...
03-08-2003, 07:35 PM
#61
Lead Footed
Thread Starter
Originally posted by mattg
i knew you'd beat him
but where are those ice box gains everyone has been raving about
i knew you'd beat him
but where are those ice box gains everyone has been raving about
I thought I would too, but early testing had me worried. I was getting way too much wheels spin. And it was due to the extra power from the Icebox.As for where are the results, keep in mind that we aren't comparing normalized results. The last results we had were under ideal conditions. low 40s and low humidity, although the track surface was cool and made hard launches a challenge.
Yesterday we almost hit 80 degrees and the humidity was high. At race time we went right at it and the engines never really cooled down and the average temperature was 20+ degrees warmer and humidity was almost double. So considering all that, I was running times close to my best under warmer conditions.
However, I am not convinced I'm going to spend the money on headers. They just don't see to be of real benefit for 1/4 racing, which is what I do.
Headers really are good for longer runs and top end runs.
So unless I find a way to increase the intake volume (RES anyone?), injector size, compression and cam size, headers don't seem to be worth it.
Ruf
03-08-2003, 08:22 PM
#62
Senior Moderator
Originally posted by RUF87
However, I am not convinced I'm going to spend the money on headers. They just don't see to be of real benefit for 1/4 racing, which is what I do.
Headers really are good for longer runs and top end runs.
However, I am not convinced I'm going to spend the money on headers. They just don't see to be of real benefit for 1/4 racing, which is what I do.
Headers really are good for longer runs and top end runs.
everything you said makes sense except for this.
headers give up to a 30 hp gain in vtec, which is where i'm at when running the 1/4, nearly the whole time.
whomever has given you this idea is horribly mistaken.
03-08-2003, 10:13 PM
#63
Lead Footed
Thread Starter
Originally posted by mattg
everything you said makes sense except for this.
headers give up to a 30 hp gain in vtec, which is where i'm at when running the 1/4, nearly the whole time.
whomever has given you this idea is horribly mistaken.
everything you said makes sense except for this.
headers give up to a 30 hp gain in vtec, which is where i'm at when running the 1/4, nearly the whole time.
whomever has given you this idea is horribly mistaken.
Guys with just CAI were doing better overall.
Also, consider where the headers make more than 14HP gain, not a big RPM range. And in some RPM areas the headers cause a loss over stock.
So when you consider that the Icebox produces a positive gain from the word go to redline, you have an overall better impact.
Especially in the 1/4 where you can break someone at the line, headers don't produce enough HP to catch me in time at the traps.
Don't get me wrong in that I'm saying they don't have big HP at 6000 and up. But the have less at 2000 and equal to or less for the midrange. So the big HP comes in too late.
Go look at how flat the positive HP gain curve is for the Icebox and look at how peaky the header results are. Not good for 1/4 milers or stoplight to stoplight racing.
BTW - here are the results of Inferno's times without and with.
14.801 1/4 mile @ 94.06 mph, 2.311 60', 9.555 second 1/8 mile
14.683 1/4 mile @ 93.48 mph, 2.234 60', 9.456 second 1/8 mile
Notice that he too would have beat the SC430. Not bad for a guy that's this is his 2nd time to race on a track.
Ruf
03-08-2003, 10:18 PM
#64
Lead Footed
Thread Starter
Originally posted by Black CL-S 4-Life
Nice runs...I knew you would win.
Nice runs...I knew you would win.
And notice how the Poll results came out.
It was almost spit 50/50. But more folks thought the SC430 would beat me by more than 1 car length.
The result was the TLS came out almost 1 car length the 1st race and just over 3 on the 2nd.
The bad news was I didn't have enough confidence myself to take a $1,000.00 bet from the guy in the SC430.
Ruf
03-08-2003, 10:31 PM
#65
Lead Footed
Thread Starter
Originally posted by AGPExTreMe
I thought reaction times dont mean anything when you drag race? It only means something whenever you're bracket racing.
Ruf: Seems like you're getting really good traction considering your mph so low. Those T1-S better be good for the price you paid for them. Maybe that's why you're brake torqueing and getting some good ass traction. What was your 60' time??
Btw: The best method that I found to launch my TL-S was when you get to the line, dont brake torque (too much spin), and just mash on the gas when the last yellow light comes on...it gets me consistent .600 reaction times with a 60' of 2.24(best) to 2.35 seconds. Also, I gate shift whenever I drag because first gear redlines at a high rpm but you have to practice on your shifting points because in some cases, you will hit the rev limiter. All these techniques added up to a quarter mile time of 14.625@96mph on some 19" chrome Work Euroline wheels with some Nitto nt555 tires. The only mods that i have is an AEM CAI and the HKS Super Dragger exhaust (don't help).
Also, I believe that a TLS/CLS against a Lexus GS4/SC4 is a drivers race at the track or street redlight....on the highway...thats another story.
Ruf: CONGRATS on your win man.....!!! I'm proud of you...AGP
I thought reaction times dont mean anything when you drag race? It only means something whenever you're bracket racing.
Ruf: Seems like you're getting really good traction considering your mph so low. Those T1-S better be good for the price you paid for them. Maybe that's why you're brake torqueing and getting some good ass traction. What was your 60' time??
Btw: The best method that I found to launch my TL-S was when you get to the line, dont brake torque (too much spin), and just mash on the gas when the last yellow light comes on...it gets me consistent .600 reaction times with a 60' of 2.24(best) to 2.35 seconds. Also, I gate shift whenever I drag because first gear redlines at a high rpm but you have to practice on your shifting points because in some cases, you will hit the rev limiter. All these techniques added up to a quarter mile time of 14.625@96mph on some 19" chrome Work Euroline wheels with some Nitto nt555 tires. The only mods that i have is an AEM CAI and the HKS Super Dragger exhaust (don't help).
Also, I believe that a TLS/CLS against a Lexus GS4/SC4 is a drivers race at the track or street redlight....on the highway...thats another story.
Ruf: CONGRATS on your win man.....!!! I'm proud of you...AGP
While your personal time doesn't start till you break the light beam, the winner is the one that get's there first. So R/T is a big factor.
Comment 2: Humm not sure how great the tires are, but they are much better than those "squealing little pigs it came with". :P
As for my 60' time it was in 2.2 or less all 4 runs. My best that night was 2.19 with my personal best of 2.18..
Comment 3: Starting technique is different every event. Tonight a launch with a powerbrake at 2000-2500RPM was right. Very liittle wheel spin and no hop. I bet I could have pushed it a couple 100RPM more and been fine. Other times I couldn't do more than 1500RPM.
As for shifting, I always use shiftgate and run it right up to 7,000RPM. It's a risk to hit the rev-limiter, but works for me.
Comment 4: Yes, when cars are within .4-.7 seconds, its always a drivers race and even some luck.
Ruf
03-09-2003, 10:44 AM
#67
Senior Moderator
Originally posted by AGPExTreMe
well yea, R/T is for bracket racing....if you're saying who has the faster car, then it's the lower ET....
well yea, R/T is for bracket racing....if you're saying who has the faster car, then it's the lower ET....
RUF no one drags more than me trust me ...with over a 100 passes maybe as much as 300+.i can tell you ,you're making the wrong comparisons...other cars with headers losing to you is the same thing as talking about camaro's and mustangs that are faster ,but still losing to you....the headers will cut an average of .5 off your ET ...ya that's right im saying you can go 14.1 ...sound good?
03-09-2003, 12:07 PM
#68
Suzuka Master
Originally posted by typeR
the headers will cut an average of .5 off your ET ...ya that's right im saying you can go 14.1 ...sound good?
the headers will cut an average of .5 off your ET ...ya that's right im saying you can go 14.1 ...sound good?
03-09-2003, 12:36 PM
#69
Lead Footed
Thread Starter
Originally posted by AGPExTreMe
well yea, R/T is for bracket racing....if you're saying who has the faster car, then it's the lower ET....
well yea, R/T is for bracket racing....if you're saying who has the faster car, then it's the lower ET....
R/T has been a factor in every class I've ever participated in or watched.
Bracket racing involves timed handicaps were the slower guy gets the green first based on his dial-in time.
I know, I've raced in that class and the quick 16 eliminator class.
Ruf
03-09-2003, 12:58 PM
#70
Lead Footed
Thread Starter
Originally posted by typeR
bracket racing is about trying to take away the advatage of the faster car...straight up drag racing is about getting down the track first...slower ET or not winner is the one who crosses the line first so R/T means everything...
BINGO!
RUF no one drags more than me trust me ...with over a 100 passes maybe as much as 300+.i can tell you ,you're making the wrong comparisons...other cars with headers losing to you is the same thing as talking about camaro's and mustangs that are faster ,but still losing to you....the headers will cut an average of .5 off your ET ...ya that's right im saying you can go 14.1 ...sound good?
bracket racing is about trying to take away the advatage of the faster car...straight up drag racing is about getting down the track first...slower ET or not winner is the one who crosses the line first so R/T means everything...
BINGO!
RUF no one drags more than me trust me ...with over a 100 passes maybe as much as 300+.i can tell you ,you're making the wrong comparisons...other cars with headers losing to you is the same thing as talking about camaro's and mustangs that are faster ,but still losing to you....the headers will cut an average of .5 off your ET ...ya that's right im saying you can go 14.1 ...sound good?
We'll find out soon enough as Inferno will be putting some 12.8lb forged SSRs on his TLS. Then he and I will be fairly equal, except that he'll have headers and I won't.
So I hope I'm wrong about headers. I've put them on most every car I've owned.
However, I do believe I am right about the best bang for the buck is the Icebox or CAI. It clearly produces a fatter range of positive gains.
Ruf
03-09-2003, 06:03 PM
#72
///M POWER
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ruf,
w/ you current set up you could be gettin a very low 14 if you get headers, i dont know how your saying that they wont help you at the track. you seem to be a pretty smart guy but thats the dumbest shit i haver ever heard. I'd say our cars spend 80-90% of the 1320 feet in vtec, where the headers give you 30whp. I ran a 15.0 completly stock and when i go back in april w/ my new set up (h/i) i'm hoping for a 14.3-14.5.
w/ you current set up you could be gettin a very low 14 if you get headers, i dont know how your saying that they wont help you at the track. you seem to be a pretty smart guy but thats the dumbest shit i haver ever heard. I'd say our cars spend 80-90% of the 1320 feet in vtec, where the headers give you 30whp. I ran a 15.0 completly stock and when i go back in april w/ my new set up (h/i) i'm hoping for a 14.3-14.5.
03-09-2003, 06:21 PM
#73
Senior Moderator
Originally posted by RUF87
So I hope I'm wrong about headers. I've put them on most every car I've owned.
Ruf
So I hope I'm wrong about headers. I've put them on most every car I've owned.
Ruf
03-09-2003, 06:32 PM
#74
Banned
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Originally posted by sidemarker
good job with proving me wrong
i think its safe to say that you have one of the fastest tl-s in the world!!!!!
sidemarker
good job with proving me wrong
i think its safe to say that you have one of the fastest tl-s in the world!!!!!
sidemarker
03-09-2003, 06:40 PM
#75
Masshole
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Originally posted by ga2000
i still dont know the stock times for a stock cls or tls {auto}
i still dont know the stock times for a stock cls or tls {auto}
03-09-2003, 09:46 PM
#76
Lead Footed
Thread Starter
Originally posted by typeR
...you'll still be comparing two different cars...two different drivers...headers will take as much as .50 off your ET...but hey dont take my word for it...what do i know?
...you'll still be comparing two different cars...two different drivers...headers will take as much as .50 off your ET...but hey dont take my word for it...what do i know?
I wasn't busting on you. I was hoping I'm wrong. But guys who have installed headers, their times were not .5 secs faster. Even the guys with headers and intakes were not droping that much time.
My biggest concern is that they are over a grand verses the couple of hundred I'm used to paying for headers. I just want to be proven wrong without a shadow of a doubt for that price.
Anyway, another guy in the group just installed headers and I'll be watching his next times to see what the results are.
Trust me, I want to drop my time and get in the low 14s, preferably in the 14.0 range.
Ruf
03-09-2003, 10:07 PM
#78
Senior Moderator
if you wanna see some low 14's you'll need headers.
03-09-2003, 10:11 PM
#79
Lead Footed
Thread Starter
FWIW -
Here is the head to head comparison Inferno (one of the guys in our group) put together showing the HP gain for each mod and the advantage one has over the other at the various RPM intervals.
RPM Ice Box Headers Ice Box vs. headers +/-
------ --------- ---------- ------------------------------
2800 .....+6...... -1......... +7
3000 .....+7..... +1......... +6
3400 .....+8...... +2........ +6
4000 ...+10...... +1........ +9 advantage Ice Box
4400 ....+10..... +5........ +5
5000 ......+7..... +5........ +2
5400 ......+8..... +3........ +5
5800 ....+14.... +13....... +1
------ --------- ---------- -----------------------
6000 ....+14 ....+17........ -3
6400 ....+12.... +25...... -13 advantage headers
6600 ....+13.... +32...... -19
These results are based on the ones posted by Comptech.
Again, my point is not to bash headers or deny they don't produce gains.
And I'll have to time how much of my 1/4 time is spent in the 5800RPM+ range.
In my mind these engines rev to redline so fast that less than 1/2 of a 1/4 race is spent there.
Let me say again, I'm not saying this as a matter of fact, but questioning it in my mind.
So all I was asking was that it be proven otherwise. If I can shave .4 to .5 secs off my 1/4 time I'll be very happy.
Just think, a Type-S running 14.2s with just headers and Icebox.
Ruf
Here is the head to head comparison Inferno (one of the guys in our group) put together showing the HP gain for each mod and the advantage one has over the other at the various RPM intervals.
RPM Ice Box Headers Ice Box vs. headers +/-
------ --------- ---------- ------------------------------
2800 .....+6...... -1......... +7
3000 .....+7..... +1......... +6
3400 .....+8...... +2........ +6
4000 ...+10...... +1........ +9 advantage Ice Box
4400 ....+10..... +5........ +5
5000 ......+7..... +5........ +2
5400 ......+8..... +3........ +5
5800 ....+14.... +13....... +1
------ --------- ---------- -----------------------
6000 ....+14 ....+17........ -3
6400 ....+12.... +25...... -13 advantage headers
6600 ....+13.... +32...... -19
These results are based on the ones posted by Comptech.
Again, my point is not to bash headers or deny they don't produce gains.
And I'll have to time how much of my 1/4 time is spent in the 5800RPM+ range.
In my mind these engines rev to redline so fast that less than 1/2 of a 1/4 race is spent there.
Let me say again, I'm not saying this as a matter of fact, but questioning it in my mind.
So all I was asking was that it be proven otherwise. If I can shave .4 to .5 secs off my 1/4 time I'll be very happy.
Just think, a Type-S running 14.2s with just headers and Icebox.
Ruf
03-09-2003, 10:20 PM
#80
Lead Footed
Thread Starter
Originally posted by mattg
if you wanna see some low 14's you'll need headers.
if you wanna see some low 14's you'll need headers.
Okay guys I give, uncle already. :P
Too bad we live so far apart, we could have some great times coming up with new mods to drop our times.
Since it looks like I live in the middle of the two of you (mattg and typeR), we can have the next race meet here.
BTW - do either of you know how to get hold of a our engine specs in a CAD-based format?
If you do, it might be worth your while.
Ruf