gavriil

OK so I am completely tired of my CLS. Love it, lots of pluses but I really need something else. It's been 6 years already. My major complaint about my CLS has been its long gear ratios and the slow response of the tranny, which completely ruins an otherwise great engine.

So I will be writing about my tested cars in installments so that you all have a chance to help me here.

The first one was the BMW M Roadster.

I actually went to the BMW Naperville, IL dealer for driving the M Coupe. He had one but was inside and could not pull it out. I sat inside and was immediately turned off by the lack of interior space in general. I am only 6 feet tall and would really appreciate another inch of leg length travel. The M Roadster was slightly worse in that respect actually.

The trunk space on the M Coupe was not bad, considering the size of the vehicle, but that of the M Roadster was less than what I would need. I go to the airport a lot so I need to be able to put my luggage back there.

The M Coupe is longer than one can tell from pics. Especially its hood. The car is "2/3ds hood" You sit barely in front of the rear wheels basically.

From the side it looks more aggressive than the photos reveal. The rear fenders are VERY aggressively pronounced!

One of the unacceptable items with regard to German luxury vehicles is the lack of an in-dash 6 CD Changer. They still put it in the glove box or even in the trunk. In the case of the M Coupe/Roadster not only it's not standard, it's a dealer option which will be installed in the trunk!

In general the interior is well laid out and materials used are of good quality. The options are what you really need, not more, not less. So the character of the car, even in the interior is about driving, not about having fun with the amenities provided inside. And maybe justifiably so.

So I am in the M Roadster and after trying my best for finding the most comfortable position, I start the engine. Right away I notice the two red lights at the 7 and 8K rpm marks. Just as the magazines describe.

We start moving slowly off the dealer's lot and I can tell this is one very rigid body and that the steering wheel needs some muscle to move. This body would be rigid enough even for a coupe, let alone for a roadster. The steering wheel effort lightens once you get moving.

The engine pulls with no issues from very low rpm. Very drivable for its displacement.

One of my big questions with these tests is the suspension of these cars on every day driving. How do they absorb tarmac imperfections and how much information do they pass on, while keeping in mind how much control they provide once you decide to start changing directions quickly for a taste of sporty driving.

Considering the large wheels of the M Roadster and its sport suspension, things were not totally disappointing. It is stiff but it's not beating you.

The engine feels like it's larger than 3.2 liters when at low rpm. I am impressed by its pulling power considering its displacement. In 4th gear and at 1700 rpm and it pulls with no problem. You feel the "step" at around 4700 rpm, like our VTEC, but overall it's linear in its pulling capacity. For sure there are 330 horses here, however its sound is disappointing. And I give a lot of emphasis on the sound of an engine. On two fronts: 1. Nuance and 2. Loudness and of course how all that changes depending on load and rpm point. The nuance of this engine, especially with the top up is close to completely disappointing. To me. Cos nuance is subjective. It sounds better when the top is down, but even then, things are not great. The typical sound of this engine, like in the M3 of "broken metal moving up and down" in its guts, is the characteristic of its nuance at mid and high rpm during high loads, which it does not do much for me. They say, the sound of the M Coupe is better. We'll see, if and when I test it.

Talking about the top being down, I was surprised by the super short time it takes to put the top down in the case of this car. I believe it takes 9 seconds or less.

The brakes were excellent. I punched them from around 50 mph and you can tell there are special brakes there. The pedal inspires confidence.

The accuracy of the steering wheel is there, but not as accurate as the M3 I drove a couple of days later.

The stick was fine, but not excellent.

Overall, I know I would not be able to live with this car as a daily driver mainly because of lack of interior space and of course the trunk is very small. Also, I was not enthused by the driving character of the car. Way too much sport and less refinement than I need.

More car reviews to come (M3, Cayman S, Boxster S, CLK550, Two Corvettes, CTSV, SC430 and more).

Yumcha

I actually like the M-Roadster quite a bit (and nifty review, gav)...My only question is: are you able to put up with only a 2-seater? And if so, are you going to also consider the Cayman?

gavriil

First, sorry, the Cayman S (and the Boxster S) are two of the cars I have tested already. I added them to the list above.

Yes a two seater is fine with me cos the other car is the RX300.

Yumcha

Right off the bat from your list of candidate cars, the ones I like the most are:

- M Roadster
- Corvette
- M3
- Cayman

Water-S

if your testing verts. even though i'm a fan of BMW i'd check out a SLK55.

Dan Martin

How about a Carerra? If it's out of the price range, I'm sure you could grab a mint 2004 or 2005 for about the same price as a Cayman S.

gavriil

Totally on my list. BUt I cant find it on a dealer's lot and availale for testing. Every dealer told me the same thing, "it's rare to find and when they arrive, they are gone a day or two later".

gavriil

How many of those have you driven?

gavriil

I'd love to test drive a 911. However because I went to a specific Porsche dealer and drove a Cayman S and a Boxster S the same day, I dont want to go back and ask for yet a third car to drive. I dont know...maybe I should. However I was so turned off by the Porshces, I am kind of down on the 911 too, which may be a mistake.

Yumcha

To be honest? Just the M3...

The rest are just on paper and by looks, sir. Best cars I've ever driven in my life are: 1998 Mercedes-Benz S500, 1993 Acura NSX, 2002 BMW M3, 2002 Porsche Boxster S

Water-S

wow i didn't kind the SLK55 AMGs were in that much demand that almost as soon as they come in they're sold. dealers i bet are bastards and won't deal much on them either.

cob3683

MB dealers don't deal much on AMG's period....except for the C55.

Water-S

is that due to the C63 getting ready to hit the lots or due to it isn't a hot model.

Crazy Bimmer

How did you drive it then?

Also your review seems to be spot on with most of what i read out there.

My guess is that you will end up with a vette.

cob3683

It's mainly due to the resale value being an absolute joke. Great car....just can't hold value for shit.

Speed_Racer

He drove the M Roadster. The M Coupe was the one inside.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

May I ask why you were turned off by the Porsches? The Boxster S is on my shortlist. Haven't driven one yet b/c I probably won't make a move until late 2007, but just curious why you didn't like them. I also won't be buying new... probably a 1-2 year old low mileage pre-owned (I refuse to buy new, let someone else take the depreciation hit)...

dbox

get the M3, bro. I have so much fun in mine.

extremetls

gav, can you do a test drive for every car on the market?

gavriil

I have not driven the M Coupe yet.

gavriil

See next post or two.

gavriil

OK so a day after the M Roadster test (last week), it was raining ALL day. Terrible day to do anything. But I did not care. I called the Porsche Westmont, IL dealer and said I am coming in for a Boxster S and Cayman S test drive. He basically said, no worries.

Before I get in any of the two, I carefully look at the cars from the outside. They both look good from the back, but the Cayman S looks better from the front AND a lot like a 997 911. Which to me is a plus for the Cayman S and a minus for the 911. Comparing the BMWs, both coupe and roadster, I believe the Porsches look better from any angle. To me.

The trunk space is good because there are two trunks in the case of both cars. I believe the Boxster S may have a little more total trunk space. Probably all of it in the rear trunk. BTW, the 911 has VERY LITTLE space for luggage folks! Anything would probably go in the rear "seats".

We try the Cayman S first. With the 18s and the manual. Equipped with PASM. I have sat in one before and I have said that Porsche has made a huge leap ahead as far as interior quality of materials used with these new cars. Although the steering wheel looks kind of cheap, the quality of all the knobs and buttons is pretty good considering the character of the car. As far as the design of the interior, I find it...adequate.

Right away I can tell that the Cayman S has more room inside than the M Roadster and M Coupe cars. The big problem with the Cayman S is its super hard bottom cushion seats. I remember the same from seating in one during the Chicago Autoshow this past February.

I appreciated the fact that Porsche uses an electric motor for adjusting only the back of the seat. The rest is manual and if it saves cost and especially weight, why not? I mean how many times does one adjust their seats in a car? Close to once or twice? Fine, if multiple people use the car, I understand it, but still...

The seating position is great, but not THE BEST as many claim. The steering wheel is telescopic and vertically adjustable. Most of these cars have these features as standard these days. One does appreciate the telescopic feature IMO.

Finally, when my seat is all the way back, and I am pushing the clutch, my leg is fully extended. So lengthwise this car does not have the issues I had in the M Roadster.

We start rolling. I am in the passenger's seat which btw is even harder to sit on than that of the driver's! We switch sides. The clutch is very easy to get used to, unlike that of the M Roadster's.

The steering wheel is not as heavy when standing compared to the BMW's but it's as accurate if not more accurate, when rolling. Even at the very end of its span btw.

The shifter is the smoothest and most accurate I have driven, however not the shortest. But when I drove the Boxster S, it was equipped with a short-shift option which completely ruined the smooth feel of the shifter on the Cayman S. I assume both cars use the same tranny?

The first thing that grabbed my attention though was the engine. And I am talking about its sound. From two standpoints again: Nuance and Loudness.

First let me say that there is a very unique "stereo effect" of the engine sound mostly because it's coming from the rear. It's something that one will immediately notice because it "feels" very different (I have driven a Boxster when it first came out before). The engine feels like it's in the car, it fells like a third occupant! Very involving. But!

From a nuance standpoint, it does not excite. Me, at least. It was pretty throaty but you can tell there is an engine back there that is trying very hard to move this thing fast. Not that the Cayman S is slow or the engine does not have good torque characteristics, but after driving all these cars, I have concluded that, there is nothing like a V8, or even better, there is no replacement for displacement no matter how good the engine is. A smaller engine can never give you the feeling a larger engine can and I say that with all other variable factors fixed, because an engine can be a million cc large but feel like crap because of other issues. But keeping everything constant, a larger engine, transforms the car in ways that cannot be substituted by a smaller one. More on this later in other reviews.

Now, to the bigger issue, the loudness of the engine. The Cayman S' engine is ALWAYS LOUD! That's the best way I can describe it. I very much appreciate the fact that our CLS sounds like an electric car when under very little load combined with low or even mid rpm, but then will show you a different character if at WOT and at above 4800 rpm! That's the true character of a luxury GT with respect to the engine's decibel level. And personally, that's what I want from my next car. After driving some of these cars, I realized how important that factor is to me.

In other words, if in the Cayman S with a passenger and would have liked to cruise for a few minutes and have a discussion while at 2000 rpm and 6th gear, you'd need to constantly yell!

Sorry but to me, that's beyond unacceptable. This is a track car, period! I don’t know who called this car an "every day driver", or a car with dual personalities. It is NOT that, just because of the loudness of the engine issue.

Now, what about the engine's other characteristics. Very impressive indeed. It pulls and it pulls hard from any rpm. There are two steps mind you. One at around 2800 rpm and one at around 4800 rpm. And I confirmed that by looking at the torque curve graph in the manual (which btw is a small booklet for all Porsches). In mid rpm, the torque falls actually for about a thousand rpm before it goes back up again.

This engine does like to rev and it does like the upper rev band, like our engine, however it has a lot better torque down low and at mid rpm. Of course it's slightly larger and it is moving a vehicle almost 500 pounds lighter than our CLS but still...

I totally believe the 13.4 seconds for the 1/4 mile for this car.

Another issue for the Cayman S and the M Coupe is the lack of a moon roof even as an option! For me a moon roof is necessary, even if the car is pretending to be a daily driver. These cars are leaning way too much on being track cars. They are track cars first and daily drivers second I would say.

As far as comfort and how it absorbs bumps and asphalt imperfections in general, the Cayman S is better than I expected, especially on broken asphalt. It does not like horizontal bumps, but still. The car had the base 18 inch wheels, the sales guy said that the 19s make the car very harsh.

--------------------------------------

We turn back and go into a Boxster S.

The interior of the car is basically the same as that of the Cayman S'.

The engine sound was quite different than that of the Cayman S'. To me, it was better as far as the nuance was concerned and with the top down, it sounded even better. Overall not great though. It was also less loud, if not a lot less loud, than the Cayman S' engine. Overall though it was louder than what I'd want. Also, the Boxster S' engine was more linear than that of the Cayman S'. It had one step instead of two and the step was of less intensity in its execution than that of the Cayman S'.

The suspension was too harsh though. It jumped over horizontal bumps a lot. I also felt that the rigidity of the Cayman S was a lot higher than that of the Boxster S'. I even heard a pronounced and repetitive rattle/squeak coming from behind my head, somewhere in the roof and its connection point with the roof mechanism, when going over bumps. All that with the roof UP! Unacceptable for a car of this price and also a completely new car!

We stopped and played with the roof, other than put it down. Overall the impression this roof gave me was that it was of lower quality than that of the BMW's. And it was a lot slower to move. Also, the BMW was a one-touch button type of operation. IN the case of the Boxster S, you need to undo a clap in front of the rear view mirror before you push the button. Not the end of the world but the Boxster S is more expensive than the M Roadster.

I talked about the, completely ruined (in feeling), shifter of the Boxster S before. Supposedly the shifts are happening 30% faster. I felt no difference. And if the faster shifter is going to completely ruin an excellent shifter, I will take the longer shifts any day!

As you may know, in a few months, the Boxster and Boxster S will get a little more power. If I remember correctly from the article I have posted here, the S will get the 3.4L engine, ala-Cayman S, while the Boxster will stay with the 2.7L engine. The dealer confirmed that (he said 7 more horses or so) but he also said that the price will go up by 2.9% also.

Overall, if it were between Boxster S vs M Roadster, I'd take the Boxster S. Not sure about Cayman S vs M Coupe as I have not driven the latter yet.

However, both Porsche cars gave me the impression of...toy cars possibly for people in mid-life crisis, or people that love to go to the track or live in an area with a ton of turns, possibly in the mountains? These cars are not for the Midwest where one has to search to find a bend and highways are flat only when newly redone and traffic is 90% of the time present. I can see these Porsches as "third" cars, or cars for a bachelor who will use it as a chick magnet.

And that is not even considering the price of these vehicles. After looking at the prices of the Porsche cars, suddenly BMW M cars look like unbelievable bargains The M3 sounds like a deal, but more on that on the next review.

Overall, from the above tests, I realized that this type of vehicle is NOT what I am looking for from my next car purchase.

stangg172004

imho, id go with the caymen. im not sure perf wise, but it does look a whole lot better...

cob3683

Another good review Gav.....anxious to read the CLK one.

Crazy Bimmer

Having getting more of a sense of car you want... my guess now is a Benz.

Still not a fan of the CLK styling though, even in AMG package.

gavriil

By the way:

https://acurazine.com/forums/car-parts-sale-361/selling-my-2001-cl-type-s-49k-miles-very-clean-344121/

gavriil

Next one will be the two Vettes and the CTSV. Very exciting review that will be.

cob3683

The new style is starting to grow on me a little bit (finally after 3+ years ) but I still don't think it has the presence of the old model.

Beltfed

I think the 07 CLK550 with the AMG kit looks really good..........curious to see what you think of the CTS-V though.

Water-S

i read in my new car and driver mag i think for 07 they're dropping the 6.2 AMG motor in the CLK chassis. 475 hp. for a little drop top that thing will boogie i bet.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

I had the CTS-V on my list as well, however, after browsing their forums and reading about all of the drivetrain issues, I decided to stay far away.

Not on the list, but wondering if you had any desire to drive the C55 AMG? Supposedly quick little cars, and the resale on them means you can get a low mileage 2005 for a steal...

gavriil

The C55 is certainly worth test driving, but I prefer to go with a coupe than a sedan. Also, think about the fact that the CLK550 makes more power and torque than the 55AMG engine. MB claims 5.1 for the CLK550 which means it will do 4.8 or better. And all that with an auto tranny. So because the CLK550 is so much improved with this drivetrain, it makes the C55 less of a candidate. On paper. Maybe I should find out for myslef though.

F900

I personally did not think much of the CLK 550 especially for the money, you found the major draw back with the 911 hardly any trunk space, but it sure handles like a dream, especially in the corners......

gavriil

When did you drive one? Share the experience please.

gavriil

So the day after driving the Porsche cars, I went back to the same area where a BMW dealer operates with the intention to drive an M3. I wanted a coupe with a stick of course, but for new, he only had a stick for a cabrio or an SMG for a coupe, so we settled for a 2005 with 9K miles on it and 19 inch wheels. No competition package however.

When I started driving the car, I immediately realized that this is a lot closer to what I want from my next car, compared to the last three cars I drove. But is it THE car?

The steering is excellent as I expected, however the shifter was not. It was barely OK, unlike what we have read. Maybe one equipped with one of those short shift options? I did not even ask.

The engine impressed me but not from every angle. It did feel larger than a 3.2 liter engine, no doubt. And the gas pedal was very sensitive to the touch, however with the Sport button ON it gets from sensitive to simply overly touchy. Not necessary really.

The engine felt stronger than the one in the M Roadster and I am guessing that was because it was broken in and with a slightly better exhaling design. It pulled hard from even 2K rpm, but again, as with the Cayman S, you felt that this is an engine that is really trying very hard to move this thing quickly.

The engine's sound was very different than that in the M Roadster. The M Roadster's engine was a lot bassier. The M3's engine was more about middle frequencies and at high rpm very much into the trebles. It sounds like a small engine, since most V8s, if not all, have very bassy, throaty sounds. I lower the windows and it sounds better, but not great. Overall though I liked the nuance of this engine, better than the M Roadster and certainly better than the Cayman S'. Because from a loudness standpoint this engine is certainly more livable. However, I put 6th and at 2700 rpm and I can tell this is louder than it should be and also that even 6th is way too short. Maybe I am spoiled by the super long 5th of our auto tranny CLS cars?

The biggest problem with this engine is that above 6500 (if not before), it loses its velvety operation character. It reminded me of a slightly more refined S2000 engine which I tested a couple of years ago, where above 6000 rpm it tells you, now I will show you why it's hard to be a race car driver only because of the sound and why race car drivers wear ear plugs. Not only too loud, but also bad loud. Like 20 musicians playing different melodies at different tempos. I mean, I am sorry, but our engine sounds better and better as it approaches 7100 rpm. And as far as nuance, I have heard very few engines sounding better than our car above 4800 rpm and at WOT! If it were louder, it'd be one of the best sounding engines out there regardless of number of cylinders.

The clutch was great, I did not need to get used to it, I was able to achieve smooth transitions right off the bat.

The interior room is great. I realize now that back seats may not be necessary for me, but it's a good plus. However not a deal maker/breaker item.

Trunk space is more than fine for what I need! The interior...well...we all know this E46 interior from other BMW cars. To me it's fine but it is showing its age slowly, especially after getting out of some of the cars I drove and I will talk about test-driving in later posts.

The handling of the M3 when you push it is, as expected, very very good, the car corrects for you when you do something stupid, however it understeers first, as mags write.

Ride quality is not bad with the 19s over broken pavement. BUT! HUGE problem over horizontal bumps. The M3 HATES to go over uneven pavement, pavement that forms "small hills" so to speak. And the shorter the hill, the worse the ride. It not only hurts your kidneys, it jumps over them. It gets really upset and makes certain you know about it. Maybe the 18s would be better? And if yes, how much better?

Another big problem with the M3 for me is that when I examined the vehicle from the outside after the test drive was over, I realized how obvious it is that this vehicle's exterior design has gotten old. Which means that two years from now, it will look a lot older and that's not something I want to live with.

Overall, I left the BMW dealership almost disappointed in the M3. I am not a BMW basher, as you see three of their cars were on my list and now a fourth one (the 650) and I am even thinking about the 550 with a stick. I'd love to buy a BMW if I like one. However, I felt that the M3 is way overrated as a car. Maybe it was THAT good (as the mags suggested) when it first came out and maybe the next M3, about 1.5 years away, will be THAT good again and reset the bar.

Maximized

I am suprised you said that about the M3. Honestly, you have to have the car close to limits to see why the car is highly regarded. Your review might be biased though because you did test the Cayman/Boxster S the day before.

gavriil

I was surprised as well.

dom

Gav, will you be test driving a 335?

alex2364

Sounds like all the cars you've tested so far are too raw for your taste. They're all track cars first and daily drivers second. What about the BMW 335 when it comes out?

bigman

If you think that driving an M3 is loud, a vette will be even louder. My trans am with lt's true duals, cam and other mods would make a nascar fan shit themselves in fear.