TL|GTX

This website funded by many ppl will show why not break an engine gently----> http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

TL|GTX

And also this website- http://www.supernissans.net/forums/2...-vehicles.html

I hate cars

I agree with breaking the engine in fairly hard. Drive it at least as hard as you normally drive. Most of the break-in is done in the first 30 minutes of life anyway. Most of that is ring to cylinder break-in. Main and rod bearings don't really have a break-in period and they don't make flat tappet cams anymore so cam break-in doesn't exist.

The only thing you have to watch is the transmission, mostly the final drive. The gears do require a little break-in that's why it's good to stay away from WOT in first and second gears so the load is not as high on the differential.

I hate cars

Just read the article and I agree completely.

stillhere153

iTrader: (1)

FIXED

RC51Ryder

Yeah, I ride a sportbike and that website is required reading for most in my group. I don't know about automobile engines but most motorcycle engines have been run hard at the factory and are 80% broken in before you see it.

TL|GTX

This thread isn't pointless. People that want more performance from this cars shouldn't baby thier cars. And i hate when people say you should leave cars oil when you first buy a car, cuz it has specail detergent. Guess what it has nothing special, except scraps of metal from the engine.

stillhere153

iTrader: (1)

bro, you are throwing common sense out of the window... and dollars at that

my car asked for its first oil change at 3750... so I did it at 3750

did I run the car hard before the first oil change, hell no... in fact it wasn't till almost 10k miles that it really began to respond like a honda should


currently at 15k and she drives like a bat out of hell (almost 2 years after purchase)

1075

....which help the rings seat.

BEAR-AvHistory

Give me a break the guy is not even talking about car engines.

I am sure the guy recommending this is an ace engineer with Phd's in metallurgy & mechanical engineering that Honda is throwing money at to hire & run their Formula 1 engine development program.

I also heard he will absorb all the costs if you are not covered under the warranty due to abuse.

acuratech239

iTrader: (2)

Actually, for the record, Honda's oil that's in the engine when the car is first delivered IS "special". I have to talk to at least one customer a month about this. They'll want to have the oil changed way before it's required, for many different reasons. So I keep a copy of this in my tool box.

Direct from Acura service news dated August 2006 (didn't include the two pics, it's just pics of new oil (light colored) vs. the darker colored oil after just a few minutes of running the engine)

Factory-Fill Engine Oil Looks
Dark? It’s Normal
At TQI, does the factory-fill engine oil look less
like Texas Tea and more like Oklahoma Crude?
Don’t worry, there’s nothing wrong with the
engine. The engine oil looks that way because of
molybdenum (that’s “moly” for short), a special
lubricant applied by the factory to critical engine
components during assembly.
When the engine is test-run, that molybdenum
mixes with the engine oil, turning it a dark
metallic color often within the first 5 minutes of
running. And just how dark that engine oil gets
seems to vary between vehicle models, engine
types, and engine assembly plants.
What’s really important to remember here is this:
Don’t change the factory-fill engine oil because it
looks dark; just make sure it’s at the right fluid
level. To ensure proper engine break-in, the
factory-fill engine oil needs to remain in the
engine until the first scheduled maintenance
interval.

Hence why when I bought my 07 TL-S, the factory oil stayed in until my A1 came on, and it's been Mobil1 full synthetic ever since (Save your opinions if you use a different brand synthetic, I've just had good experience with this brand for years now)

SouthernBoy

A lot of this came from building up racing engines for use on drag strips or other tracks. Yes they are hard from the get go, but the engines are not mass produced for street use. And racing teams run these engines hard because they want to know that if they are going to break, it had better not be during a race (many do anyway as everyone knows).

Then there is the belief that car engines are broken in at the factory before installation into mass produced vehicles. Not. Certainly not for a TL. Not only would this slow down a production line, but it would cost a lot of money as well.

Now for some facts. When an engine is cast and machined, there will be high and low points in the metal components which are called asperities. When seen under a microscope these asperities resemble partiall torn or shredded metal (I don't know how else to describe it). Peaks and valleys at cut angles. The break-in process is necessary to smooth these asperities down and have them mate with other contacting surfaces. If a manufacturer uses a "break-in" oil (which TL does), the additive package contains higher levels of molys and other components which help to fill in these peaks and valleys thereby aiding the mating of the contacting components (rings, bearings, journals, cam followers, etc.).

If you push an engine hard during its early life, the smooth mating does not take place but rather a more harsh mating occurs which can dig or scratch contacting surfaces more than desired.

Several years ago, Road Rage did an excellent write on this very topic which you should be able to locate with a search. Do keep in mind, we're talking about street engines.. not engines being built up for racing.

WRXtranceformed

There are a lot of different thoughts on this. The motor in my old STi was essentially a custom built race motor. The builder in CA and the installer in MD, both of which are considered some of the best at what they do for Subarus, recommended running cheap dino oil in it for the first 1500 miles. The oil was first changed at 500, 1000 and 1500 mile intervals. The car ran on a break in tune and felt noticeably different at the end of the 1500 mile period, at which point I switched to Amsoil 15w50. We put it on the dyno and wrung it out with about 25-30 redline pulls during the final tune. That's obviously a very different setup than anything you're going to see from the factory, but during the break in period I would rock the throttle back and forth giving it partial boost so that the rings would seat correctly. I did that same procedure on my older WRX when I bought it brand new.

I think the point is, many applications are different and you need to defer to the experts on each application as to how you should break in the engine. Subaru for example recommends keeping their cars under 4k or so rpms during the first 3500 miles IIRC.

BEAR-AvHistory

99% of the "oil experts" here have never built an engine & are totally unaware of the moly assembly grease used on the high friction parts when an engine is built.

They are correct that the oil is the same oil that you put in the car at the first change but are clueless about the moly transfer into the oil when the engine is first run.

BEAR-AvHistory

+1

SouthernBoy

Thanks BEAR for the thumbs up. There is another thing which I left off of my response that really should be included in this discussion and that is temperature.

When engines are built and assembled, their tolerances are generally a little closer, which means tighter. This is deliberate because as the engine runs (and wears) in its early stages, those tolerances will loosen slightly and conform more to the general specifications allotted to the state of tune of a given engine. Engines are comprised of dissimilar metals which expand and contract at differing rates. Driving an engine hard from the get go significantly increases internal temperatures from the effects of combustion and friction. This puts more stress on the initial oil package, breaking it down quicker and also stress the metal parts to a greater degree. Careful and gradual break-in of a street engine significantly reduces these factors and allows the engine to "seat" better to these dissimilar parts and to similar metals as well (remember, asperities).

Still the bottom line and the final decision lies in the hands of the owner. How he wishes to break in his engine is his choice and therefore, his wallet.

vinnier6

iTrader: (1)

although i dont disagree with any of the thoughts on how to break in a motor, as i have owned and broken in over 10 sportbike motors, the one thing you can do to not go wrong when breaking in a motor is to follow the manufactures recommendations in the owners manual....

i am not saying that is how i break in my motors, but for the average normal joe wanting to use his warranty that came with the motor, i would sugest breaking it in per recommendations set by the manufacture....

vinnier6

iTrader: (1)

also, remember, that a race motor is not a street motor...you break a race motor in for use right now....and a race motor will be rebuilt after a short time....not the case with a street motor.....

BEAR-AvHistory

On a top end drag racing motor you can wind up re-building it between every round, not much time for break in, but it only has to last 5 seconds or so at WOT.

Might not be relevant but on the non-gentle break in they are talking about racing bikes which are air cooled & have much different rates of expansion then a street car.

One of the guys principle thoughts is you have to load it to force the rings out against the cylinder walls. This is not the case with a street engine in a car. Back in the 60's engines, especially high performance ones, were built with looser tolerances to allow the forged pistons to expand when hot.

On occasion you could here the piston slap on very cold days when you first started up but those days are long gone because of pollution & mileage considerations.

SouthernBoy

True.

Also parts used in racing engines are far superior to those found in street engines. That and the fact that cylinder walls, crankshaft bearing surfaces, camshafts, lifters/followers, and a host of other engine internals are machined with much more attention than are street engines.

I remember years ago one weekday evening at a drag strip watching an A/FX Comet doing some really outlandish launches. The driver would run the R's up to just about redline, then just slide his foot off of the clutch pedal. This just amazed me because you can't imagine the amount of stress going through that drive train to those slicks from that 427 side oiler (A/FX cars were the precursors of funny cars). I asked one of the team members why they were doing that and he told me that they installed a new clutch assembly and wanted to make sure it was good before the weekend races. Incidently, this was at 75 & 80 Dragway in Damascus, MD which is the track (now closed) that MotorWeek does all of its 1/4 mile, braking, and lane change testing at.

BEAR-AvHistory

The moly in the oil package also cause the filter to load up faster as it does not pass through it as well as the motor oil does.

In addition to not taking the break in oil out to soon you also never want to leave it in to long either.

What I did on the Vette which had a lot of different engines over the years was use a GMC truck filter which was twice as long as the stock Chevy filter & held 2qt of oil.

SouthernBoy

Your points are well made about the filter getting clogged up quicker.

With past new cars, I would change the oil and filter after the first 1000 miles, then again 2000 later, and then every 3000 miles thereafter. I was uncomfortable allowing my TL to go past 3000 miles with the factory fill and then when I read two postings from two of our more knowledgeable members (Road Rage and I think Michael Wan) about the fact that the TL factory fill begins to break down rather quickly around 3000 miles, I got it out of there when I got around 2900 miles. They had the factory fill analyzed and found that the break in additive package was showing signs of significant breakdown in the 3000 mile area.

I know that this topic will never go away. There will be those who will argue each side with strong convictions and believed facts. The way I see it is pretty simple. An engine is not a living thing so it is incapable of regenerating or healing itself. It is what it is from its original creation to the point at which it is delivered to the end purchaser. What the owner does from that point on is up to them. But you have to think that a certain amount of common sense combined with basic mechanical logic would reign to some degree. It's like clutches. Yesterday, I was stopped at a traffic light and a Jeep pulled up in a lane on my right. He was holding his car with his clutch instead of his brake. Immediately you know he knows little or nothing about how a clutch operates. But I would bet he thinks he does. Same with engines and their break-in process.

Costco

Subscribed, not because of the initial 2 links posted (already read them and am unconvinced for reasons already stated in this thread) but because of the discussion in the latter part of this thread. Thanks guys.

Not to mention considering the previous posts from the OP were completely useless.....

swoleCL

^^ +1, i've always broken my bikes in pretty hard, but not my cars.

Black Tire

I would have thought that engines are advanced enough that you wouldn't need to break it in.

YeuEmMaiMai

break in the motor how you see fit, but don't come crying when it takes a crap from not following the owner's manual

jmkiang

iTrader: (5)

Why does the OPs avatar change color so much?

Alperovich

i broke my legend motor in this way after my rebuild. i'll stick to this method.

I would follow it for any motor you want top performance out of.

Gilgamesh

I'll trust the people that designed and engineered my motor as to the break in process, thanks.

It's called thermal shock, go read about it. Then think about what you are doing to the motor by flogging it so hard with rings that have not worn into the cylinder walls. No seal == blow by.

Also, it would be much easier to trust the second website if:

1) He did not call his Altima a "performance vehicle"
2) He knew how to spell. (Brake != Break)
3) He knew what Mean Effective Pressure actually represents.

CLpower

every engine builder I know breaks in motors HARD

majin ssj eric

I've just driven my car normally from the day I drove it home from the dealer. Hell, its got a warranty!

Alperovich

new car motors are ran hard at the factory by the time u get it in your car and off the lot its already mostly broken in.

ALL engine builders i've ever talked to said to run it hard to first to help the rings seal perfectly.

v6cord2k5

iTrader: (1)

I broke in the motor in my '05 Accord hard, and we broke in the motor in our '99 Suburban hard... did all the scheduled maintenances and they're both running like champs.

mattg

That's funny stuff.

v6cord2k5

iTrader: (1)

Maybe he forgot to activate his VTEC