turkeybaster115

iTrader: (1)

Well last week, I pushed fluids on my 335I, and this week I did the same thing to my Audi. Flushed the brake, powersteering, coolant, and automatic transmisson fluid. The shocker again this time was the ATF fluid!! I expected it to be used up good, but I didn't expect it to be worse than my 335I, considering they both have VF trannys, with the BMW pushing more torque. It had a really STRONG burnt smell:

ineedmyfixofacura

iTrader: (2)

DUDE!!! u got a 335i and a nice 07 Audi, I hate you , kidding but can I get a ride in that awesome BMW?!? 335i is a BMW I can see myself owning down the road.

phee

iTrader: (5)

u gunna send it out to get evaluated?

mclarenf3387

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/transmission.php

Do it. For 20 bucks a test its worth while and it will be interesting to see what they say about the condition of the oil. A visual inspection of modern fluids doesn't always tell you the whole picture.

turkeybaster115

iTrader: (1)

Guy, you obviously work for one of these stealerships. I'm not a "scientist", but I'm willing to bet that you would want to test for viscosity at 40 & 100 deg C, coefficient of friction, and flash point, right? Well technically for any data to make sense, you would have to pull out a sample of the fluid from a brand new car (which shouldn't be a problem for you), so we can send along both samples. SO, you paypal me the money, I'll send off the samples.

charliemike

Settle down, Francis. It was a valid point.

knight rider

iTrader: (1)

I bet you have a lot of friends

EuRTSX

You cock.

phee

iTrader: (5)

idiot

turkeybaster115

iTrader: (1)

No need for childish insults. I apologize for my tone, but my points are still valid. If mclaren can get us a sample of the fluid new, then it would help us have a baseline to compare the fluids. If not, then I am willing to send out the samples of the used ATF for each car, as long as someone paypals me the cost. After all, its only "$20" per sample, right? I'm not going to use my money, because I don't care about the results. My eyes and nose are enough for me.

achenator

where the hell did that come from? bi polar much??

mrmako

OP: So a moderator on this board suggests an analysis with the thought of gaining some insight on what is going on with your transmission. You reply back with the "I'm not a scientist" then tout either limited or professional knowledge on the subject. All you had to say is without a controlled sample for comparison, it wouldn't be a valid test. Instead you come off as sounding pompous , and like an ass, valid points aside.

I suggest you take you comments elsewhere, as life is too short for that kind of attitude here.

Shoofin

So then what's the point of this thread?

Do we really need to see a bottle of your transmission fluid and odometer miles if you don't plan on doing anything with it?

turkeybaster115

iTrader: (1)

The moderator works for a dealership, and is biased. This is the second time he's asked for an analysis of the sample. I lost my temper because I feel he is trying to argue for these shady buisness practices, of under-maintaining, over charging, and manipulation.

I brought up the control sample, since he is arguing for the dealership he works for, he might use the control argument, after he sees the specs. I brought it up to give him a chance to defend himself and help us establish a baseline. Since hes at the dealership, he might be able to pull us a small sample.

I lost my temper and I did apologize. Maybe you didn't read it.

mrmako

You make sense, but it seems this was directed more at everyone than just one person. I'l sit back on this one.

Crazy Bimmer

I would think that dealers would TRY to convince people to change fluids more often.

More money in their pockets that way, no?

knight rider

iTrader: (1)

OP, I think we are all interesting in the results. Afterall this is a car forum. Thanks for sharing what you came across (who knew?). But I think that since you started the thread and since we are "car guys" we would like to know, despite your "sensual analysis" if the black fluid is in fact "bad". Otherwise we do not know (for sure) that what you are stating is 100% accurate.

If you posted this thread to make us aware of what you discovered then getting an analysis done on the same fluid would be a great follow up to this discovery. I'm not willing to paypal you $20 to find out though

knight rider

iTrader: (1)

Okay, here is something to chew on...

http://autos.yahoo.com/maintain/repa...ques123_0.html

Belzebutt

This thread conjures up memories of the turbonator.

What's the picture for? When a fluid looks and smells yucky, we're supposed to change it?

turkeybaster115

iTrader: (1)

Good article. The key here is resistance to heat. I remember when honda did their investigation into the 99-03 TL/CL cars, they pulled a transmission at <50K, and did repeated stop and go accelerations, and the fluid reached 250, very fast. We don't have the equipment that honda had access to. No anaylsis (except maybe flash point) will tell us the resistance to heat, but I'm 100% positive that the coca cola, won't resist heat like it did when it was new. the fluid, zf lifeguard 6, is clear amber/light brown when new.

turkeybaster115

iTrader: (1)

This forum has really gone down in quality since the days of acura-cl.com. Funny how I posted this exact same thing in the audi forums, and people all chimed in with their various experiences, with NO one making childish comments. They actually started posting their problems with the transmissions, with most of the torque converters going at 75K, with the "lifetime coca cola" left in, per the stealerships.

iTimmy

There is nothing wrong with changing fluids at scheduled intervals as set by the manufacturer, basing the need to change fluids on color or smell is hardly accurate anymore. Cars have become very efficient in the last decade and the old standards and rules simply aren't true any more. Bottom line, without a professional analysis on the oil this thread is nothing more then "I changed my transmission fluid." There is nothing wrong with that, but the theory that changing fluids more often then is recommended yields any benefits is folk lore.

I spent over a decade of my life working in the automotive repair business, and am no longer in that line of work so there is no hidden agenda in my opinions, they are simply my opinions based on not one or two cars, but literally thousands in the real world. I had customers who insisted oil changes, or any fluid change for that matter, were not required and to their credit they experience no more or fewer problems then those who adhered to the maintenance schedule as set by the manufacturer. I've seen cars go 100,000 miles without an oil change, only yearly top offs and shockingly they ran fine. Who's to say what's right or wrong, there are way too many variables to make claims based on smell and color. The point of this, is that you shouldn't fool yourself into thinking that over maintaining a vehicle is going to yield any real world results, I would encourage people to maintain their vehicles as per the maintenance schedule set by the manufacturer of the automobile not by the oil/filter companies, but based on what I've seen anything more then that is just throwing money away.

turkeybaster115

iTrader: (1)

by the "manufacturer" I'm assuming you are refering to the manufacturer of transmission (ZF), as they differ from the manufacturer of the rest of the vehicle (BMW). The dealership sells, and can maintain the car. BMW does not specify a transmission fluid change interval in the owners manual. The dealership, like you, goes off the phrase: "lifetime fluid", and interprets it to mean: "never change your transmission fluid". This leaves us with ZF, which put its own lifeguard 6 fluid into the transmission after assembley. On their website, they defined the term they used: "lifetime" to mean: "between 40,000 to 60,000 miles based on 3 usage criterias. most people fall under those 3 criterias so for most people the the fluid will last 40,000 miles. ZF's official statement is all we need here. No analysis is needed, especially since we don't have a baseline.

my mechanic, the audi&bmw dealership's parts managers, service advisors, and service techs, all saw the same fluid you saw, and agreed that the fluid should indeed be changed every 30,000 miles. All these people have MORE experience with these vehicles than you do. The people at the dealership said that there is nothing they can do, since they are told by corporate, to to leave the transmission fluid in there indefinitely.

Now if you want me to believe that you can leave engine oil in a 335I with direct injection, and thus serious fuel dilution issues, combined with a normal operating temp range of 250-300 degrees for what was that? 100,000miles?, then you really need to give me what you are smoking because thats probably the most rediculous thing I have ever read on the internet.

iTimmy

How did I know you were going to reply like that. You just joined my blocked list, it's you and Water-S, that's an accomplishment!

Allen-

charliemike called and let me know that your trout should arrive in 4-6 weeks. Thank you.

SodaLuvr

mclauren and timmy are correct. Fluid color and odor are not accurate representations of a fluid's overall condition. This is because some fluids will darken very quickly due to the type of materials used inside of the transmission. For example, a number of transmissions use carbon fiber type friction materials that will darken fluid very quickly.

However, most of the labs that individuals can afford are not capable of performing all of the tests that are needed to accurately judge the condition of transmission fluid. In addition, their "experts" who interpret the results are absolute dummies. So, testing your ATF may not tell you much.

Nevertheless, I would still change the fluid, but probably at 100k with a full flush. Sooner (maybe 60k) if the car was seeing track time on a regular basis or if I was noticing a deterioration in performance. Fluid still wears out, but it definitely lasts a lot longer than it used to. OEMs consider "fill-for-life" to be 150k, but since many of us drive our cars much harder than the average customer, more frequent maintenance intervals (100k normal/60k severe) would be wise.

EuRTSX

Belzebutt

Guys, I just unscrewed my gas cap and took a good whiff of the gas in my tank (ok, a LOT of whiffs) and it smelled gross, I'm going to the gas station right now to get my gasoline replaced...