Are people mocking us when they say...
09-04-2010, 08:10 AM
#163
AZ Community Team
Great thread
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09-04-2010, 01:55 PM
#166
In the Mid-South meow
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09-04-2010, 11:35 PM
#169
Three Wheelin'
not true.
on many older honda's you could actually feel a thrust once it engages.
i've owned an accord. TL and Prelude.
the accord and prelude BOTH "kick" in if you want to say that..
the TL did more of a glide into it...
as technology has improved. it has become more seamless..
but the older honda motors had a pretty noticable jump into Vtec.. even when they were new.
on many older honda's you could actually feel a thrust once it engages.
i've owned an accord. TL and Prelude.
the accord and prelude BOTH "kick" in if you want to say that..
the TL did more of a glide into it...
as technology has improved. it has become more seamless..
but the older honda motors had a pretty noticable jump into Vtec.. even when they were new.
The only ones I've driven that had a "kick" were owned by kids with a VAFC who adjusted their crossover too high. They thought this "kick" was making their car faster. In reality, they were losing midrange when the engine fell out of the power band on the primary lobes and then lurched forward when it ramped back up onto the secondaries. Some of them even broke traction for split second with an audible chirp from the tires.
I still have a '95 B18C and there was no "kick" when it was stock. I also have an H23 VTEC in my CL with no "kick" either.
09-05-2010, 12:20 AM
#171
Team Owner
Looks about as aerodynamic as mine too.
09-06-2010, 12:58 PM
#174
The Dumb One
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Which older Honda's are you referring to? The VTEC transition should be smooth on all DOHC VTEC motors dating back to the early B16's of the late 80's.
The only ones I've driven that had a "kick" were owned by kids with a VAFC who adjusted their crossover too high. They thought this "kick" was making their car faster. In reality, they were losing midrange when the engine fell out of the power band on the primary lobes and then lurched forward when it ramped back up onto the secondaries. Some of them even broke traction for split second with an audible chirp from the tires.
I still have a '95 B18C and there was no "kick" when it was stock. I also have an H23 VTEC in my CL with no "kick" either.
The only ones I've driven that had a "kick" were owned by kids with a VAFC who adjusted their crossover too high. They thought this "kick" was making their car faster. In reality, they were losing midrange when the engine fell out of the power band on the primary lobes and then lurched forward when it ramped back up onto the secondaries. Some of them even broke traction for split second with an audible chirp from the tires.
I still have a '95 B18C and there was no "kick" when it was stock. I also have an H23 VTEC in my CL with no "kick" either.
(although i've driven several older model Integras and civics with B16's' and B18's)
i've had one in 2 different cars.. each a 5 speed.
the TL of course had the J32.. and even that car.. had a noticable crossover.. although less then the prelude and accord.
maybe you never paid much attention?
like we said, we know the car isnt supposed to jerk or have a huge impact.. but its most certainly something you can feel happening... if it didnt surge the car forward just a bit, it wouldnt be doing its job.
and none of my cars had computer adjustments... basic bolt-ons, but nothing more.
Last edited by Rockstar21; 09-06-2010 at 01:04 PM.
09-06-2010, 01:52 PM
#175
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
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Thank you everyone. After painstakingly analyzed every photo posted here, I have concluded that my friend was indeed mocking me.
I will visit him and his Audi now.
I will visit him and his Audi now.
09-06-2010, 02:15 PM
#176
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Which older Honda's are you referring to? The VTEC transition should be smooth on all DOHC VTEC motors dating back to the early B16's of the late 80's.
The only ones I've driven that had a "kick" were owned by kids with a VAFC who adjusted their crossover too high. They thought this "kick" was making their car faster. In reality, they were losing midrange when the engine fell out of the power band on the primary lobes and then lurched forward when it ramped back up onto the secondaries. Some of them even broke traction for split second with an audible chirp from the tires.
I still have a '95 B18C and there was no "kick" when it was stock. I also have an H23 VTEC in my CL with no "kick" either.
The only ones I've driven that had a "kick" were owned by kids with a VAFC who adjusted their crossover too high. They thought this "kick" was making their car faster. In reality, they were losing midrange when the engine fell out of the power band on the primary lobes and then lurched forward when it ramped back up onto the secondaries. Some of them even broke traction for split second with an audible chirp from the tires.
I still have a '95 B18C and there was no "kick" when it was stock. I also have an H23 VTEC in my CL with no "kick" either.
09-06-2010, 03:51 PM
#177
In the Mid-South meow
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I definitely feel an increase in pull and sound at VTEC in my Accord, as well as I did in my CL-S, but not in my '04 Civic Si, due to i-VTEC.
Funny enough, the biggest "kick in" I've ever felt was in fact not with VTEC, it was with VVTL-i in my friend's '99 Toyota Celica GTS. That thing became a whole different beast above 6k RPM. He had the 6mt and in that year the redline was set at 8400 RPM, so he was able to keep it in "VVTL-i" between shifts. It was a very fast car for what it was in it's day. Hard to believe that was 11 years ago.
Funny enough, the biggest "kick in" I've ever felt was in fact not with VTEC, it was with VVTL-i in my friend's '99 Toyota Celica GTS. That thing became a whole different beast above 6k RPM. He had the 6mt and in that year the redline was set at 8400 RPM, so he was able to keep it in "VVTL-i" between shifts. It was a very fast car for what it was in it's day. Hard to believe that was 11 years ago.
09-07-2010, 12:46 PM
#182
Three Wheelin'
We'll just have to disagree on this. I have a VTEC H series, so on my way home tonight I'll concentrate extra hard on the crossover. For now though, I'm chalking this one up to the placebo effect.
09-07-2010, 04:18 PM
#186
Someday, an RS6 Avant+
Real V-TEC Power.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWk4MCQaHrc
Just say no to V-TEC (in an old 3 series BMW). This is the result......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWk4MCQaHrc
Just say no to V-TEC (in an old 3 series BMW). This is the result......
09-07-2010, 06:31 PM
#187
My first Avatar....
WEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!
09-07-2010, 06:41 PM
#188
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People do make fun of VTEC, because most people don't understand what it does.
(Sorry) I don't know how put the picture.
^ like that picture. Where it said the car is torque-less and economical car, which is so not true... Lets take a look at the S2000, its by far economical... Most of Hondas cars are always made fun, but yet in Japan they do really good in races. TSX, get insulted all the time by G owners, but the TSX actually has racing history while guess what? The G doesn't. How can a car that doesn't have racing history insult a car with racing history? Makes no sense...
(Sorry) I don't know how put the picture.
^ like that picture. Where it said the car is torque-less and economical car, which is so not true... Lets take a look at the S2000, its by far economical... Most of Hondas cars are always made fun, but yet in Japan they do really good in races. TSX, get insulted all the time by G owners, but the TSX actually has racing history while guess what? The G doesn't. How can a car that doesn't have racing history insult a car with racing history? Makes no sense...
Last edited by Bearcat94; 09-07-2010 at 09:44 PM. Reason: fixed pic
09-07-2010, 08:04 PM
#189
Team Owner
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^^^^
A lot of car manufacturers have "EPIC" cars.
Honda - NSX
Toyota - Supra
Nissan - Skyline
For everyone you get out that argue that Hondas are better than others, you will get 20 more that say otherwise. I personally have owned a Toyota product, a pair of Honda products and 4 Nissan products. I like aspects of all 3.
A lot of car manufacturers have "EPIC" cars.
Honda - NSX
Toyota - Supra
Nissan - Skyline
For everyone you get out that argue that Hondas are better than others, you will get 20 more that say otherwise. I personally have owned a Toyota product, a pair of Honda products and 4 Nissan products. I like aspects of all 3.
09-07-2010, 09:35 PM
#190
Team Owner
People do make fun of VTEC, because most people don't understand what it does.
http://www.maeboerboel.com/vtec_motiv.jpg
(Sorry) I don't know how put the picture.
^ like that picture. Where it said the car is torque-less and economical car, which is so not true... Lets take a look at the S2000, its by far economical... Most of Hondas cars are always made fun, but yet in Japan they do really good in races. TSX, get insulted all the time by G owners, but the TSX actually has racing history while guess what? The G doesn't. How can a car that doesn't have racing history insult a car with racing history? Makes no sense...
http://www.maeboerboel.com/vtec_motiv.jpg
(Sorry) I don't know how put the picture.
^ like that picture. Where it said the car is torque-less and economical car, which is so not true... Lets take a look at the S2000, its by far economical... Most of Hondas cars are always made fun, but yet in Japan they do really good in races. TSX, get insulted all the time by G owners, but the TSX actually has racing history while guess what? The G doesn't. How can a car that doesn't have racing history insult a car with racing history? Makes no sense...
Racing is done in classes. Put a TSX up against a ZR1 on the race track and it's not going to do so well. It's all relative.
Racing history is great but a G is going to take a dump on a TSX in any sort of street race.
Honda builds good economical cars and entry level luxury cars. VTEC is in place primarily for emissions. Without it emissions would be too high or you would have to run a smaller cam and lose some of the top end power.
I can assure you, Hondas are at the bottom when it comes to low end torque.
09-07-2010, 10:32 PM
#191
The Dumb One
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i noticed this before i even understood what vtec was or was for (or had it implanted in my mind)...
your h23 is a different beast... like we said, its been mentioned that the h22 was the culprit of most people's complaints/stories of a "kick"
its been rumored that not tuning your car will cause the crossover point to not transition as smoothly, but like i mentioned before.. my cars are just basic bolt ons at best. and the engine ran the same smooth/roughness level as pre-mods...
should i make a short clip of the crossover in my lude? (when i get a few min.)
or we can still agree to disagree... but i'd like to know why some claim they fell nothing when most say they do...
09-07-2010, 11:29 PM
#192
Three Wheelin'
There were kicks felt BUT they werent from the H series only. B series also. Now you guys are talking two different planes...on vtec crossover on older model cars there is a slight dip in power before it switches over to the second cam lobe...WHEN you tune it you can tune it out if not keep it. Some people like to keep it (Dunno why I think its absolutely retarded) But most of the time when you tune a vtec motor you can eliminate the kick. If you look at stock graphs closely you will see a slight dip in power before crossover giving you that sensation. My old accord with h22a had that issue until I got it somewhat street tuned...It was a japanese motor not the usdm one.
09-08-2010, 01:14 AM
#193
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Racing is done in classes. Put a TSX up against a ZR1 on the race track and it's not going to do so well. It's all relative.
Racing history is great but a G is going to take a dump on a TSX in any sort of street race.
Honda builds good economical cars and entry level luxury cars. VTEC is in place primarily for emissions. Without it emissions would be too high or you would have to run a smaller cam and lose some of the top end power.
I can assure you, Hondas are at the bottom when it comes to low end torque.
Racing history is great but a G is going to take a dump on a TSX in any sort of street race.
Honda builds good economical cars and entry level luxury cars. VTEC is in place primarily for emissions. Without it emissions would be too high or you would have to run a smaller cam and lose some of the top end power.
I can assure you, Hondas are at the bottom when it comes to low end torque.
Yeah, races are by class. That's why when the TSX was racing in RealTime, I believe. It was up against cars like the A4, 3 Series, IS, and etc...
True, the G will win in street race, but hey the TSX has racing heritage that says something. To me it would say, rather than look at me I have a big engine and I'm fast. It says, I was in a racing tournament and has history in racing. Just gives that image that the TSX is more of a sports car than the G. Others would disagree, because of the performance. I wouldn't want to be bias, but I say the TSX's power is enough, its decent. Not like the TSX did bad in the racing too. The TSX and RSX did pretty good.
I'm not disagreeing with you on the last bit. Most reviewers been saying Honda lack low end torque.
Last edited by HondaOnWORKS; 09-08-2010 at 01:16 AM.
09-08-2010, 06:55 AM
#195
Senior Moderator
As capable as a K24 TSX may be with an experience driver, it would get pummeled by its entry level counterpart from Infiniti in just about every race category.....racing heritage not withstanding.
Now if Honda were to equip the TSX V6 with a 6MT, that would make it interesting....though I'd still place my money on the G.
Now if Honda were to equip the TSX V6 with a 6MT, that would make it interesting....though I'd still place my money on the G.
09-08-2010, 07:34 AM
#196
Three Wheelin'
There were kicks felt BUT they werent from the H series only. B series also. Now you guys are talking two different planes...on vtec crossover on older model cars there is a slight dip in power before it switches over to the second cam lobe...WHEN you tune it you can tune it out if not keep it. Some people like to keep it (Dunno why I think its absolutely retarded) But most of the time when you tune a vtec motor you can eliminate the kick. If you look at stock graphs closely you will see a slight dip in power before crossover giving you that sensation. My old accord with h22a had that issue until I got it somewhat street tuned...It was a japanese motor not the usdm one.
09-08-2010, 08:56 PM
#197
The Dumb One
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Not trying to recruit people here.. My cars kick.. Bottom line. It wouldnt matter if the car lost power during crossover. Something is happening that can felt physically. No sense in trying to sway the fixed
Ill just assume that only my 3 hondas had this unique quality...
Last edited by Rockstar21; 09-08-2010 at 09:00 PM.
09-09-2010, 08:55 AM
#199
Trolling Canuckistan
FWIW, Acura is leading the manufacturers championship in the GTS class with 81 points, Porsche is well behind with 19. Ford, Lotus, and Chevy have yet to secure a single point for their manufacturer in the GTS class.
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