Pay oversticker for a new car?
10-08-2010, 03:37 PM
#41
Senior Moderator
I'll say that I had a very positive experience last month when I bought my vehicle. Price does not mean everything to me, so I guess I'd say I'm not a "mooch". 
While I definitely won't pay more than sticker, I also won't sit in a dealership for 4 hours trying to squeeze every dime out of a salesperson. I prefer quick, respectful, drama-free transactions where I leave feeling like I got a decent deal and no one got taken advantage of. And I do not like to be pushed to make hasty decisions.
Most of the sales people (and service as well) at my dealership have been there for several years. I remember them from my last purchase 6 years ago (which ultimately was made elsewhere due to availability). The post-purchase experience is probably even more important to me. I need to trust the people who are servicing my car, and I don't want to be told I need services I don't really need. As a younger female, I could have easily been talked down to, ignored (happened at one dealer), or been attempted to take advantage of, but this one does not do that and I appreciate that, so they continue to get my business.
While I definitely won't pay more than sticker, I also won't sit in a dealership for 4 hours trying to squeeze every dime out of a salesperson. I prefer quick, respectful, drama-free transactions where I leave feeling like I got a decent deal and no one got taken advantage of. And I do not like to be pushed to make hasty decisions. Most of the sales people (and service as well) at my dealership have been there for several years. I remember them from my last purchase 6 years ago (which ultimately was made elsewhere due to availability). The post-purchase experience is probably even more important to me. I need to trust the people who are servicing my car, and I don't want to be told I need services I don't really need. As a younger female, I could have easily been talked down to, ignored (happened at one dealer), or been attempted to take advantage of, but this one does not do that and I appreciate that, so they continue to get my business.
10-08-2010, 04:35 PM
#42
My only car is a Bus
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I have sold cars to people who paid $3,000.00 over MSRP for an MDX and they simply say years later: "I wanted one and didn't want to wait" or "That's what the market was." These people are not stupid, their desire simply trumps their wallet. And god bless them, too.
The last (and only) car I have bought came in as a trade to the Acura dealership I was working where it sat for 30 days. I bought it and my employer made about $1,000.00 off of me. Usually you pay more if you buy from where you work but that's okay.
That said, if I wanted to buy a car not offered by my current dealership, Mercedes-Benz, I would find what I wanted, do some research, offer a price with some profit to the dealer and move on. I would not grind for every last dollar, and those are the people to which I was referring as always being unhappy... those who pay the least.
This is a mentality that is very difficult to understand unless one is in car sales.
If some people pay MSRP they think it's a good deal. Some think paying Cars Direct price is a good deal. Others think Invoice minus Holdback with free floormats, 5 coffee mugs, 2 free details, and 12 keychains is not a good deal.
I also do not understand people who would rather wait for a year to buy a car because they refuse to pay MSRP. Life is short, buy the car you want if you can afford it so you can be enjoying it for that one year because you don't live forever!
The last (and only) car I have bought came in as a trade to the Acura dealership I was working where it sat for 30 days. I bought it and my employer made about $1,000.00 off of me. Usually you pay more if you buy from where you work but that's okay.
That said, if I wanted to buy a car not offered by my current dealership, Mercedes-Benz, I would find what I wanted, do some research, offer a price with some profit to the dealer and move on. I would not grind for every last dollar, and those are the people to which I was referring as always being unhappy... those who pay the least.
This is a mentality that is very difficult to understand unless one is in car sales.
If some people pay MSRP they think it's a good deal. Some think paying Cars Direct price is a good deal. Others think Invoice minus Holdback with free floormats, 5 coffee mugs, 2 free details, and 12 keychains is not a good deal.
I also do not understand people who would rather wait for a year to buy a car because they refuse to pay MSRP. Life is short, buy the car you want if you can afford it so you can be enjoying it for that one year because you don't live forever!
What's to say someone who pays more won't look back in retrospect, after hearing more people buy the car, and thinking "wow, I think I overpaid.... a lot"?
If it's not like pulling teeth then I think almost anyone will be happy with a car buying experience. It's an exciting thing for many people.... I think its safe to say most people don't dread the possibility of having a new car in the garage. But no matter how you spin it, the haggling and finance portion rarely ends up with both parties completely satisfied. It's really dependent on the individual... some people are so cheap that no price will satisfy them... paying more for a car will only make them less happy.
You are as you mentioned, a longtime fleet manager. How long, I don't know but obviously when you discuss car purchases you'll provide your viewpoint, which has been influenced by many years of being the salesperson. As for the rest of us, we are all consumers, who have a much different perspective on the car buying procedure. You won't buy a car the same way we do... given a choice, you would buy a car from your fleet, used or otherwise, no? There's much less hassle and the option for you to get a lower price is much better.
I acknowledge that the dealership has to keep the lights on, and in reality on new cars they don't make nearly as much as they do on a used car, so if given the opportunity to raise the asking price, they would. Hell, if I were a fleet manager and my bonus and reputation hinged a lot on the bottom line, I would raise the prices too. People are also free to spend a thousand or two or more on a car in high demand, but I think most of us have no problem waiting several months for a car that would be readily available and with added variety, probably with fewer problems, and at a lower price several months later.
If it's not like pulling teeth then I think almost anyone will be happy with a car buying experience. It's an exciting thing for many people.... I think its safe to say most people don't dread the possibility of having a new car in the garage. But no matter how you spin it, the haggling and finance portion rarely ends up with both parties completely satisfied. It's really dependent on the individual... some people are so cheap that no price will satisfy them... paying more for a car will only make them less happy.
You are as you mentioned, a longtime fleet manager. How long, I don't know but obviously when you discuss car purchases you'll provide your viewpoint, which has been influenced by many years of being the salesperson. As for the rest of us, we are all consumers, who have a much different perspective on the car buying procedure. You won't buy a car the same way we do... given a choice, you would buy a car from your fleet, used or otherwise, no? There's much less hassle and the option for you to get a lower price is much better.
I acknowledge that the dealership has to keep the lights on, and in reality on new cars they don't make nearly as much as they do on a used car, so if given the opportunity to raise the asking price, they would. Hell, if I were a fleet manager and my bonus and reputation hinged a lot on the bottom line, I would raise the prices too. People are also free to spend a thousand or two or more on a car in high demand, but I think most of us have no problem waiting several months for a car that would be readily available and with added variety, probably with fewer problems, and at a lower price several months later.
10-09-2010, 12:26 AM
#43
Racer
I shudder at the thought of even paying sticker for a car.
My parents did it just once when they bought an '02 Odyssey. While it was definitely worth it in the end (the Odyssey basically blew the Sienna and Grand Caravan away back then) I highly doubt anyone in my family will pay MSRP for a car again.
I'd rather just wait it out.
My parents did it just once when they bought an '02 Odyssey. While it was definitely worth it in the end (the Odyssey basically blew the Sienna and Grand Caravan away back then) I highly doubt anyone in my family will pay MSRP for a car again.
I'd rather just wait it out.
You're absolutely right. 
to everyone else.
10-09-2010, 09:10 AM
#47
My first Avatar....
10-09-2010, 09:41 AM
#48
Drifting
The price for being first I suppose. Like a previous poster wrote, the same happened with PT Cruiser. I also recall when the Thunderbirds were going for upwards of $10k over sticker, called "Market Adjustment"!
10-09-2010, 10:38 AM
#49
10-09-2010, 03:04 PM
#50
Senior Moderator
10-10-2010, 12:31 AM
#54
אני עומד עם ישראל
The grinders are usually the most picky. I try to save everyone's time and handle it through email or over the phone. It's ridiculous for me to sit there for hours and hours just to knock off $150.
When I went for my G it was Saturday evening. I just spoke with the Internet Manager, asked him what's the best he could do on the color I wanted with the options I wanted and this is what I wanted for my trade not a penny less. He quoted me over the phone, I asked him to email it so I had the quote in "writing." I looked up zag and truecar.com asked around the G forum. Sometimes I wonder if those guys lie about the price they are paying? I was already under invoice and $1,000 dealer cash on it to boot, but these guys are saying they still paid 500-900 under my quote
I called him the next morning (Sunday) asked if he could do go down a few hundred more. I told him that's what I wanted to pay if you can do it we have a deal and no more BS calling or emailing back and forth from me. He agreed.
He took all of my info over the phone, got the special rate for me, and I went in (Monday evening) to sign the papers after work. There were zero surprises, zero issues. They made money on the back end (trade and financing), probably a mini for the internet manager which I wouldn't complain. He had to answer two emails, three phone calls, push the app and got us in to sign. I hooked him up with all 10s on the survey and have recommended him to my tax lady and co-workers.
Everybody is happy.
When I went for my G it was Saturday evening. I just spoke with the Internet Manager, asked him what's the best he could do on the color I wanted with the options I wanted and this is what I wanted for my trade not a penny less. He quoted me over the phone, I asked him to email it so I had the quote in "writing." I looked up zag and truecar.com asked around the G forum. Sometimes I wonder if those guys lie about the price they are paying? I was already under invoice and $1,000 dealer cash on it to boot, but these guys are saying they still paid 500-900 under my quote
I called him the next morning (Sunday) asked if he could do go down a few hundred more. I told him that's what I wanted to pay if you can do it we have a deal and no more BS calling or emailing back and forth from me. He agreed.
He took all of my info over the phone, got the special rate for me, and I went in (Monday evening) to sign the papers after work. There were zero surprises, zero issues. They made money on the back end (trade and financing), probably a mini for the internet manager which I wouldn't complain. He had to answer two emails, three phone calls, push the app and got us in to sign. I hooked him up with all 10s on the survey and have recommended him to my tax lady and co-workers.
Everybody is happy.
10-10-2010, 01:23 AM
#55
I'm not sure if people I know is all in the 10% minority in Canada (totally 30+ brand new cars in the past 3 years), but not one of those vehicles went for or over MSRP.
10-10-2010, 02:24 AM
#56
Drifting
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I was able to get my BMW for $3,950 under asking price. I walked in and told the dealership what I would pay, they came back and offered me $500 lower than sticker, that went back and forth until they offered me $1,500 under their initial price. I stood up, walked out the door and was gone for all of five minutes before they called me on my cell phone offering $2,000 off, again I told them that wasn't good enough. I went and had lunch with my mom, they called offering $2,750 off, I again told them what price I was willing to pay and unless they were able to meet me at my price I was not interested.
I don't understand why you wouldn't try and get the car for less, I don't see any reason to pay a dime more than you've gone into the dealership looking to pay.
I don't understand why you wouldn't try and get the car for less, I don't see any reason to pay a dime more than you've gone into the dealership looking to pay.
10-10-2010, 11:00 AM
#57
I have to disagree. Myself, other than the instance mentioned, and others I know have never paid MRSP for any vehicle. From either domestics to the premium foreign brands.
Terry
10-10-2010, 11:54 AM
#58
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Here's the thing:
It's unwise to pay too much but it's unwise to pay too little.
When you pay too much you lose a little money, that is all.
When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything,
because the thing you bought was incapable
of doing the thing you bought it to do.
The common law of business balance prohibits
paying a little and getting a lot.
It can't be done.
If you deal with the lowest bidder,
it's well to add something for the risk you run.
And if you do that,
you will have enough to pay for something better!
- John Ruskin
It's unwise to pay too much but it's unwise to pay too little.
When you pay too much you lose a little money, that is all.
When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything,
because the thing you bought was incapable
of doing the thing you bought it to do.
The common law of business balance prohibits
paying a little and getting a lot.
It can't be done.
If you deal with the lowest bidder,
it's well to add something for the risk you run.
And if you do that,
you will have enough to pay for something better!
- John Ruskin
Im sorry i fail to understand your logic. If i were to buy car 1 at 30k it will be the better car, even though its the same car that is for sale elsewhere for 5k cheaper? Somehow the one thats cheaper will break down, and be a POS, and becaue i paid 5k more, car 1 will be better? No way, i'll take my chances and keep my 5k.
So when i buy a car, its incapable of driving? Incapable of what? What are you talking about dude? If your talking about getting a house built, and you use the lowest bidder, i see your point, yes you get what you paid for. When it comes to a new car, if i can save a grand on sticker somewhere else, i will, why would i pay more for the same product?
10-10-2010, 12:32 PM
#59
My first Avatar....
The grinders are usually the most picky. I try to save everyone's time and handle it through email or over the phone. It's ridiculous for me to sit there for hours and hours just to knock off $150.
When I went for my G it was Saturday evening. I just spoke with the Internet Manager, asked him what's the best he could do on the color I wanted with the options I wanted and this is what I wanted for my trade not a penny less. He quoted me over the phone, I asked him to email it so I had the quote in "writing." I looked up zag and truecar.com asked around the G forum. Sometimes I wonder if those guys lie about the price they are paying? I was already under invoice and $1,000 dealer cash on it to boot, but these guys are saying they still paid 500-900 under my quote
I called him the next morning (Sunday) asked if he could do go down a few hundred more. I told him that's what I wanted to pay if you can do it we have a deal and no more BS calling or emailing back and forth from me. He agreed.
He took all of my info over the phone, got the special rate for me, and I went in (Monday evening) to sign the papers after work. There were zero surprises, zero issues. They made money on the back end (trade and financing), probably a mini for the internet manager which I wouldn't complain. He had to answer two emails, three phone calls, push the app and got us in to sign. I hooked him up with all 10s on the survey and have recommended him to my tax lady and co-workers.
Everybody is happy.
When I went for my G it was Saturday evening. I just spoke with the Internet Manager, asked him what's the best he could do on the color I wanted with the options I wanted and this is what I wanted for my trade not a penny less. He quoted me over the phone, I asked him to email it so I had the quote in "writing." I looked up zag and truecar.com asked around the G forum. Sometimes I wonder if those guys lie about the price they are paying? I was already under invoice and $1,000 dealer cash on it to boot, but these guys are saying they still paid 500-900 under my quote
I called him the next morning (Sunday) asked if he could do go down a few hundred more. I told him that's what I wanted to pay if you can do it we have a deal and no more BS calling or emailing back and forth from me. He agreed.
He took all of my info over the phone, got the special rate for me, and I went in (Monday evening) to sign the papers after work. There were zero surprises, zero issues. They made money on the back end (trade and financing), probably a mini for the internet manager which I wouldn't complain. He had to answer two emails, three phone calls, push the app and got us in to sign. I hooked him up with all 10s on the survey and have recommended him to my tax lady and co-workers.
Everybody is happy.
The way to go here.
If dealers would stop their BS, for which they are known and famous, buying a car would be a pleasant - not an adversarial experience.
10-10-2010, 02:59 PM
#60
אני עומד עם ישראל
It literally takes all of the fun out of buying a new car when you start grinding, they have you waiting, it gets tiring and all you want to do is go home.
Just remember when you disclose what you paid there will always be someone saying they paid less. That's just the nature of people. If you are happy with what you paid that's what counts!
Just remember when you disclose what you paid there will always be someone saying they paid less. That's just the nature of people. If you are happy with what you paid that's what counts!
10-10-2010, 05:01 PM
#61
My only car is a Bus
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This lesson generally does not apply to new cars although I know with Mercedes (perhaps other brands, too) you can buy one "new" but the warranty could have been started 1, 2, or even 3 years before thus you save money however your warranty is almost gone thus when something breaks on it you may have no warranty and, if you cannot pay to repair it, the "new" car will be "incapable of doing the thing you bought it to do."
What Hapa said is true. I had a client who "swore" their friend bought the same car the month before for $1,000.00 less than what we offered him. Looking at his friend's deal, it was obvious his friend lied. This is common as nobody wants to be told they "paid too much."
What Hapa said is true. I had a client who "swore" their friend bought the same car the month before for $1,000.00 less than what we offered him. Looking at his friend's deal, it was obvious his friend lied. This is common as nobody wants to be told they "paid too much."
So your telling me to pay more for the same car that i could buy for less? So, if i was looking at a new car that was 30 sticker and the same very car at another dealership for 25k, that i'm paying less so therefore i'm getting "less" of a car?
Im sorry i fail to understand your logic. If i were to buy car 1 at 30k it will be the better car, even though its the same car that is for sale elsewhere for 5k cheaper? Somehow the one thats cheaper will break down, and be a POS, and becaue i paid 5k more, car 1 will be better? No way, i'll take my chances and keep my 5k.
So when i buy a car, its incapable of driving? Incapable of what? What are you talking about dude? If your talking about getting a house built, and you use the lowest bidder, i see your point, yes you get what you paid for. When it comes to a new car, if i can save a grand on sticker somewhere else, i will, why would i pay more for the same product?
Im sorry i fail to understand your logic. If i were to buy car 1 at 30k it will be the better car, even though its the same car that is for sale elsewhere for 5k cheaper? Somehow the one thats cheaper will break down, and be a POS, and becaue i paid 5k more, car 1 will be better? No way, i'll take my chances and keep my 5k.
So when i buy a car, its incapable of driving? Incapable of what? What are you talking about dude? If your talking about getting a house built, and you use the lowest bidder, i see your point, yes you get what you paid for. When it comes to a new car, if i can save a grand on sticker somewhere else, i will, why would i pay more for the same product?
10-10-2010, 05:11 PM
#62
Your Friendly Canadian
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For all of those saying it's not worth the hour of haggling to save $200-300 here or there, I have to disagree. Financially, it makes a hell of a lot of sense. Unless you happen to make that amount per hour at your job, I'd be willing to "work" for an hour to save that amount of money. It's the same as working for an hour and making that much. I definetely wouldn't mind it.
But it's understandable people get frustrated with negotiating and just want to end/avoid that step.
But it's understandable people get frustrated with negotiating and just want to end/avoid that step.
10-10-2010, 06:01 PM
#63
Burning Brakes
For example, we got our TSX for about $28,500 (MSRP $33,000) because it was a "manager demo" (aka service loaner) with 6000kms but it was treated like a brand new purchase (0.9% financing and new warranty)
10-10-2010, 09:37 PM
#64
My only car is a Bus
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Agreed and for many people, that's a decent incentive. I happen to not be one of those people but, then again, the one car I did buy took about 10 minutes of talking with the boss to see what they'd sell it to me for. Perhaps I paid "too much" I don't know.
Thing that drive me batty are the people who come in with their laptops and spreadsheets and print outs and all this crap. Sometimes, the sales person just wants to get the deal done so you don't have to spend any more time with these folks.
Thing that drive me batty are the people who come in with their laptops and spreadsheets and print outs and all this crap. Sometimes, the sales person just wants to get the deal done so you don't have to spend any more time with these folks.
For all of those saying it's not worth the hour of haggling to save $200-300 here or there, I have to disagree. Financially, it makes a hell of a lot of sense. Unless you happen to make that amount per hour at your job, I'd be willing to "work" for an hour to save that amount of money. It's the same as working for an hour and making that much. I definetely wouldn't mind it.
But it's understandable people get frustrated with negotiating and just want to end/avoid that step.
But it's understandable people get frustrated with negotiating and just want to end/avoid that step.
10-10-2010, 11:14 PM
#65
Registered but harmless
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I've never paid MSRP, let alone a "market adjustment" premium or added charge for heavy, ugly aftermarket rims. Maybe that'll change if I ever decide to get a new Lambo or Ferrari.
I certainly don't balk at giving the dealership $1,000 or $2,000 in profit after holdbacks, etc., regardless of the car cost, if the deal can be done in less than a half-hour.
FYI, sometimes it's the dealer's finance people that mess around with sales to try and nickel & dime out a few bucks after the customer and salesperson purportedly agreed on a new car price.
I had this happen twice, where no trade ins were involved-- once, the dealer wanted to add $250 or so for supposedly special protectant on the car, and the other time, the dealership was insisting that a $390+ doc fee was "normal and customary."
The first time, I gave the dealer $100 extra in exchange for a shop manual just to get the deal done after an unpleasant half-hour of BS. The second time, I walked and the dealership called before I got home to say it was a $45 fee-- I let the dealership twist a couple of hours before picking up the new vehicle.
I certainly don't balk at giving the dealership $1,000 or $2,000 in profit after holdbacks, etc., regardless of the car cost, if the deal can be done in less than a half-hour.
I had this happen twice, where no trade ins were involved-- once, the dealer wanted to add $250 or so for supposedly special protectant on the car, and the other time, the dealership was insisting that a $390+ doc fee was "normal and customary."
The first time, I gave the dealer $100 extra in exchange for a shop manual just to get the deal done after an unpleasant half-hour of BS. The second time, I walked and the dealership called before I got home to say it was a $45 fee-- I let the dealership twist a couple of hours before picking up the new vehicle.
10-11-2010, 01:34 AM
#66
אני עומד עם ישראל
For all of those saying it's not worth the hour of haggling to save $200-300 here or there, I have to disagree. Financially, it makes a hell of a lot of sense. Unless you happen to make that amount per hour at your job, I'd be willing to "work" for an hour to save that amount of money. It's the same as working for an hour and making that much. I definetely wouldn't mind it.
But it's understandable people get frustrated with negotiating and just want to end/avoid that step.
But it's understandable people get frustrated with negotiating and just want to end/avoid that step.
They aren't NPOs offer them what you think is fair (after you do your research) if they aren't willing to play there are other dealers that will jump on it.
If you feel spending time at the dealer hammering out a price is worth it and that's what you gotta do to get a great deal more power to you. I won't stop you, but all of the info I could need to feel I secured a great deal is at my fingertips. I have always handled all of my deals over the phone or through email with a fleet or internet manager. Work smarter not harder.
10-11-2010, 05:03 PM
#70
The sizzle in the Steak
I've always paid near or below invoice....except for the MINI.
At the time every dealer was selling them with a $5k mark-up over sticker.
I shopped around for quite some time and got one a bit below sticker.
Today with the internet, it baffles me that people still go into the dealership to negotiate a price for their car. The last 4 cars I have purchase I was in and out of the dealer in about an hour tops. Deal was already negotiated prior to showing up. Simple and easy. Dicking around with a salesmen at the dealer for a price is for suckers.
At the time every dealer was selling them with a $5k mark-up over sticker.
I shopped around for quite some time and got one a bit below sticker.
Today with the internet, it baffles me that people still go into the dealership to negotiate a price for their car. The last 4 cars I have purchase I was in and out of the dealer in about an hour tops. Deal was already negotiated prior to showing up. Simple and easy. Dicking around with a salesmen at the dealer for a price is for suckers.
10-11-2010, 07:56 PM
#72
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I found the happiest to be those who were treated fairly and with respect. Those who understood the dealership had to leave the lights on but in turn wanted to remain confident they still received a good and fair deal. I would also argue you logic that the salespeople and sales managers only remember and help the "nice clients".
when i go to a dealer for a used car, i tell them that i understand that they need to cover the daily costs to keep the lights on and to make a small profit.
I know what i want to pay and typically know that my price is do-able, it just depends on if the dealer wants to hold off until they get someone who will pay the higher price.
I bought a used tsx from a ford dealer 35 minutes from my house. That experience was probably one of the best that i have ever had.
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