Buffa

I thought this was interesting. Got the latest issue of Car and Driver and there was a drool worthy comparo featuring the Ferrari 458 Italia (what a beauty). In it, they make this statement:

"A brief aside on those paddles, which are mounted to the steering column: Arguments exist for placing them on the steering wheel, as McLaren does, but Ferrari’s point is that you should not change gears while the wheel is turned."

It sparked my interest because when I was shopping for my TL, I also drove the Nissan Maxima and found that the paddles were on the column versus the steering wheel like the TL. I think there are pros and cons to both, but apparently Ferrari claims you should pick the gear you want BEFORE heading into a turn. Makes sense because I find them awkward to use in sharp turns anyway. I wonder if the Maxima is easier. Miss the old fashioned SportShift lever in my 2001 CL-S.

jasonwdp10

I strongly prefer autos to have the option to use the gear selector to shift (manu-matic?). I think many automakers have this option (even hyundai has it), and it is much more useful because i can make turns with both hands, and briefly tap the shifter with my right hand.. then it goes back on the wheel.

With the TL, especially for twisty back roads where you're steering wheel is rarely "center", I find that the shifters fly all over the place, especially when making tight turns. Extremely inconvenient for me.

I much prefer the setup the G37 has, where the paddles are column mounted AND there's the manual shift gate on the shift lever.

Pseudomaniac

iTrader: (1)

^^ The 07 Type S works in the same fashion. They got rid of the tapper in 09.

From someone with a couple hundred hours of auto-x and road track experience; I'd rather have them at my finger tips than having to make a move to the column.



The last thing you want is your thumbs getting bound up in the wheel on a switchback trying to keep the revs in the sweet spot. One thing to flip a stick where you're intending to drop one hand.

jjsC5

I agree on both counts. My Lexus (GS) doesn't have paddles, but it has an excellent floor shifter. You simply move it to the left to put in sport mode, then forward or back to shift up or down. The truth is that where I live and what I use the car for (commuting in Houston traffic) I use the shifter for getting in the right gear occasionally to get around traffic on the freeway.

BEAR-AvHistory

My car has both ratchet on the floor shift & pull paddles RT-UP/LT-DN on the wheel. I like it on the wheel much better once you get used to it.

Edward'TLS

The above steering wheel is missing the digital readout for rpm information.

normallywho

I loved the visceral feel of tap shifting gears on the shifter, but I like keeping my hands on the wheel more. I also prefer the paddle shifters be mounted to the steering column instead of the wheel so that they are always in the same place. The mental math necessary to figure out which paddle to hit if I want to downshift while the wheel is facing down is just too much for my simple brain.

Mr.Skytech

iTrader: (13)

Is that a real streering wheel?

Pseudomaniac

iTrader: (1)

On the MP4-21 the TACH was actually at the base of the cockpit above the wheel.

MaxMike93

I'd rather have them on the wheel just like say, your on a highway with a slight curve and you need to pass some jackass. Assuming you always have your hands at 10 and 2, I'd think it would be easier. Still, Brian Cooley on CNET ONLY wants them on the column. And just for the record, BMW changed the logic for shifting with a gate on the shifter (forward for downshift, back for an upshift).

Costco

The best kind of shifter:





I've tried different automatic shifters... IMO the best would be a button-style steering wheel mounted shifter like on late 90's-early 00's Lexus cars. Like so:



I go with the school of thought that you should be in the correct gear before the corner. The button-style shifters let you leave your entire hand on the steering wheel... all you have to do is move your thumb to downshift or tap on the back button to upshift.

Too bad those Lexus shifters were slow as hell, at least in the IS300s I've driven.... the one in the IS-F is lightning fast though.

Bearcat94

Not sure which models/trims it applies to but the 3G TL-S auto, when in auto, will try to delay shifting when in a corner (detected via yaw sensor?) so as not to "upset" the car mid-corner.

So, at least on some level, Acura agrees with Ferrari's logic.

oo7spy

2G RL paddles are wheel mounted with stick capability also. If you know your car well enough , the paddles have different textures in case you lose your spot and have to find the paddles. I have shifted many times pulling out onto a street (making a right turn), and my hands never left the wheel.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

or nothing

Rick_TL-S

When I read up on performance driving techniques, I had always read what Ferrari was saying because a shift mid-corner could upset the car.
I know Lamborghini follows this same idea.
Porsche actually implemented that as well on some models.
[/quote]

CocheseUGA

If I had the misfortune to own such a car, I'd want them on the column.

Legend2TL

It's probably a McLaren F1 car steering wheel, for whatever reason McLaren put the instrumentation on the top of the cockpit cowl in their cars. The old traditional place, all the other F1 teams including Mercedes Benz put their instrumentation on the steering wheels.

http://www.automotto.com/entry/new-f...to-compliment/

CCColtsicehockey

I have always wondered if they would be better on the column. The F has them on the wheel. I find it awkward to use them while turning regardless of where they are.

F23A4

However, it's days are numbered.

KaMLuNg

iTrader: (5)

^^^ so we need to get em while we can!!!

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

The wife's E350 has them behind the wheel. Doesn't really matter b/c she never uses them anyway. When I'm driving her car, I don't use them either.

If I was in a Ferrari, different story. I'd probably agree with them on the column mount...

Rockstar21

iTrader: (1)

just to add to the above few.

and if they do become extinct, so does real driving

CCColtsicehockey

^^^ This is why I am adding one to my TSX

fsttyms1

There are times where you DO need to shift up a gear while mid corner and not having them on the wheel makes sense to have BUT that said if you wheel is turned that far that your hands cant reach where they are mounted you probably shouldnt be shifting.

F23A4

Seriously,

Moog-Type-S

My GTI w/ DSG gearbox has them placed in the perfect spot: On the wheel (behind).

Right side up shift

Left side down shift

Sure, Ferrari's logic of "don't shift mid-turn" may be sound, but I have found that now and again I will shift mid turn in a longer sweeping turn, and the paddles are right where I need them to be....no need to move my hands.

Not to mention they never get in the way like the column mounts tend to get from time to time.

West6MT

x 1000

Dr. Colorado

Paddle shifters on PDK and Lambo's E-gear both kick ass but this still works for me

ttribe

Same with the E60 M5:

oo7spy

I think the wheel mount is the most useful for everyday driving, while Farrari and Lambo will cater to what us most useful on a track. Staying in gear around a corner is probably a good idea at 100+ mph. Doesn't really matter at 25.

Moog-Type-S

It's not about speed, it's about weight transfer.

Changing gears mid corner can transfer weight (the same as braking, accelerating, or steering to aggressively) and cause you to lose control.

knight rider

iTrader: (1)

The "changing gears in a corner" thing is certainly true for sportsbikes. As a rider myself I pick the gear and entry speed before I go into a turn and throttle steer out of the corner. Changing gears in a fast turn on a bike can lead to disaster.

In a car I can see how this principle would apply too. I agree with oo7spy, that this just doesn't matter if you're not going fast anyway. The vehicle would need enough torque difference while downshifting for this to matter. As for me, I have a G37 (with both the paddles and the gear shifter) and I prefer the paddles 10 out of 10 times. There is something to be said about keeping both hands on the wheel when you're downshifting to pass someone abruptly.

Moog-Type-S

^^ Do you really use the paddle shifters all that much with the automatic transmission?
The shift delay is maddening, no?

knight rider

iTrader: (1)

I don't. Not necessary, and yes you are correct about the delay. It's unreal. When I do use it I get into the desired gear, check around me first then go like hell. Other than that they look cool.

oo7spy

So when I up shift going 25 around a gradual corner in my SH-AWD car I risk losing control?

What about when I slow down from 70 into a gradual corner and come out going 55. Say I want to downshift a split second before completely straightening out, will I risk losing control?

speedemon90

if you're pushing your car close to its limit in those corners yes.

If the speedlimit through the corner is 25mph and you're going 25 nothing will happen.

Then again it also depends on the curve?? I know long sweepers can require up shifts, or other corners that have slow entry but fast exits?

oo7spy

I don't drive a smart car. The limits of my car are far beyond 25 mph. How many DD get pushed to their limit everyday?

Costco

It's just proper form. Reality is, I shift mid-turn all the time.... it's just that when I do, it's usually when I'm driving calmly and shifting from 1st-2nd gear while doing a left turn at an intersection or something.

But when you're approaching a corner with your brake pedal buried, a downshift rockets you to within 1000 rpm of your redline and you're coming up on a tight turn.... you'd better take the steps necessary to make sure your car is ready to take that corner as much as you are. Heel-toe rev matching, proper braking sequence for weight transfer... so on.

Then again, I don't think you would do this in an RL anyway. It's a luxury car with a great AWD system, not a 350Z.

Legend2TL

My favorite shifter

Second favorite shifter

Majofo