Oil Catch Can/Turbo Question SRT-4
02-21-2008, 04:08 PM
#1
In the Mid-South meow
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Oil Catch Can/Turbo Question SRT-4
So my buddy of mine stops over my place the other day with his SRT-4. He calls me on the cell and asks me to come out and take a look at his car because he sees white smoke coming from under the back of his hood. I go out there and he has the hood popped and is checking it out. So he says that he noticed whitish smoke coming from where the turbo is and it only happened when he was stopped and the engine was at operating temps. I have no experience with turbos at all but I decided to have a look and see if there was anything that I could spot.
Right off the bat I notice his K&N Typhoon cold air intake is loose. I don't mean a little loose, but REALLY loose. I check out where it bolts up and it looks like the guy who put it on (it was on the car when my buddy bought it) was in a major rush or was a total retard and didn't bolt up the brackets to the correct places. I practically reinstalled the intake and when I was done it was nice and tight, bolted to the correct brackets and not bouncing around like it was before. That was problem #1 that I saw and fixed.
Then I started poking around a little more and I notice this GReddy polished aluminum can looking thing. I was like WTF is this? He had no clue what it was so I assumed it was some kind of breather for the valve cover since that was the only line going into that I noticed. Turns out it was a oil catch can which I just discovered today poking around the internet when doing a search for oil blow-by. So this catch can was in the same perils as the intake. It was barely attached to a bracket with one loose nut and bolt and it was completely saturated in a oily grease where the hoses ran to the fittings and all on top and on the sides of the can . So I tighten the shit out of the bolt/nut and secure the can to the bracket and it's nice and solid now. I wipe off the oil/grease and re-tighten the hose clamps which were barely hand tight. I was surprised none of the hoses had just fallen off yet. He's lucky as far as that goes.
So anyway, here's the question. Since I'm clueless about catch cans (and obviously so is he), do these things need to be drained at all? Could the catch can have anything to do with the smoke he's seeing coming from the turbo? The line that ran back to the turbo was in a really tight spot in the back and since the turbo was smoking hot I couldn't quite get in there to check out the hose clamp to make sure it's tight. If that clamp is not tight could that be spilling oil onto the hot turbo thus making it smoke? Is there any common problems with a catch can that would create a leak at the turbo? He did notice the smoke only appears after he's been spooling the turbo up but if he lays off the turbo and never creates any boost going to it when he parks the car he doesn't notice any smoke. So am I correct to believe that the oil blow-by only occurs when the turbo is spinning? Again, I do have engine knowledge but it's all N/A, no turbo experience at all. So any info would be grateful.
Right off the bat I notice his K&N Typhoon cold air intake is loose. I don't mean a little loose, but REALLY loose. I check out where it bolts up and it looks like the guy who put it on (it was on the car when my buddy bought it) was in a major rush or was a total retard and didn't bolt up the brackets to the correct places. I practically reinstalled the intake and when I was done it was nice and tight, bolted to the correct brackets and not bouncing around like it was before. That was problem #1 that I saw and fixed.
Then I started poking around a little more and I notice this GReddy polished aluminum can looking thing. I was like WTF is this? He had no clue what it was so I assumed it was some kind of breather for the valve cover since that was the only line going into that I noticed. Turns out it was a oil catch can which I just discovered today poking around the internet when doing a search for oil blow-by. So this catch can was in the same perils as the intake. It was barely attached to a bracket with one loose nut and bolt and it was completely saturated in a oily grease where the hoses ran to the fittings and all on top and on the sides of the can . So I tighten the shit out of the bolt/nut and secure the can to the bracket and it's nice and solid now. I wipe off the oil/grease and re-tighten the hose clamps which were barely hand tight. I was surprised none of the hoses had just fallen off yet. He's lucky as far as that goes.
So anyway, here's the question. Since I'm clueless about catch cans (and obviously so is he), do these things need to be drained at all? Could the catch can have anything to do with the smoke he's seeing coming from the turbo? The line that ran back to the turbo was in a really tight spot in the back and since the turbo was smoking hot I couldn't quite get in there to check out the hose clamp to make sure it's tight. If that clamp is not tight could that be spilling oil onto the hot turbo thus making it smoke? Is there any common problems with a catch can that would create a leak at the turbo? He did notice the smoke only appears after he's been spooling the turbo up but if he lays off the turbo and never creates any boost going to it when he parks the car he doesn't notice any smoke. So am I correct to believe that the oil blow-by only occurs when the turbo is spinning? Again, I do have engine knowledge but it's all N/A, no turbo experience at all. So any info would be grateful.
02-23-2008, 02:23 PM
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okay the point of the SRT-4 catch can is this :
the pcv is on top of the valve cover and releases oil that blows past the internals under high boost situations. all it does is release the oil to get it out of the engine. you could just run a tube down to the bottom of the motor and it would drain to the ground, but of course the epa doesn't like that, so they require a return hose which sends the oil back to the intake manifold where it is burned. this theoretically will reduce power since the oil takes the place of air that could be used for combustion. however, it primarily just gunks stuff up. therefore you put on an occ to separate the oil before it gets into the intake to prevent this problem.
like i said, if you wanted to, you could just run a tube to the bottom and drain it to the ground- dodge obviously can't design it that way due to legal reasons, and most of us either don't want to pollute or don't want oil all over the garage floor or bottom of the car.
the pcv is on top of the valve cover and releases oil that blows past the internals under high boost situations. all it does is release the oil to get it out of the engine. you could just run a tube down to the bottom of the motor and it would drain to the ground, but of course the epa doesn't like that, so they require a return hose which sends the oil back to the intake manifold where it is burned. this theoretically will reduce power since the oil takes the place of air that could be used for combustion. however, it primarily just gunks stuff up. therefore you put on an occ to separate the oil before it gets into the intake to prevent this problem.
like i said, if you wanted to, you could just run a tube to the bottom and drain it to the ground- dodge obviously can't design it that way due to legal reasons, and most of us either don't want to pollute or don't want oil all over the garage floor or bottom of the car.
02-23-2008, 03:49 PM
#3
I'm not familiar with SRT-4's, although I do think they are neat little cars. The majority of my turbo experience has come from my four Grand Nationals throughout the years.
I may be entirely wrong, but I would assume the catch can is not a factory item on your friend's car. Most turbocharged cars experience "blow-by" by have having oil blow past the PVC valve under boost conditions. This oil often gets into the throttle body and even the intercooler and causes a lack of performance. You mentioned you tightened the aftermarket intake setup on your friend's car, and that would certainly explain the need for a catch can, as most factory turbocharged cars have the hose coming of the valve cover and ending at a filter element in the factory airbox. If it's missing, you have to find another way to dispose of this blow-by oil. To answer your first questions, yes, you need to drain the catch can from time to time.
In regards to your second request of determining why the turbo is smoking, first take a look at a few things. When you say the turbo is smoking, I assume the housing itself is causing the concern and not anything coming from the exhaust. It sounds to me as if the original owner should never have been around a wrench, so check a few things once the turbocharger is cool. First off, check the oil lines to the turbo itself. Turbos require lubrication, which is actually just motor oil circulated through the bearing assembly. Make sure the lines are tight and not stripped. If they are leaking, oil could be leaking onto the housing and burning off. I have no idea if the SRT-4 has a liquid cooled turbo, but it so, engine coolant will be circulated through the housing to cool it down. If so, check these lines as well and make sure they are tight and clean. And perhaps just the sloppy install of the intake and catch can resulted in some oil residue contacting the turbo housing, and of course you have already taken care of this.
If the oil smoke is coming from the exhaust you have an entirely different problem, and MUCH more interesting
. Give me a shout if this is the case.
Hope this info helps, and perhaps someone who is more familiar with these cars can offer an opinion as well.
Terry
I may be entirely wrong, but I would assume the catch can is not a factory item on your friend's car. Most turbocharged cars experience "blow-by" by have having oil blow past the PVC valve under boost conditions. This oil often gets into the throttle body and even the intercooler and causes a lack of performance. You mentioned you tightened the aftermarket intake setup on your friend's car, and that would certainly explain the need for a catch can, as most factory turbocharged cars have the hose coming of the valve cover and ending at a filter element in the factory airbox. If it's missing, you have to find another way to dispose of this blow-by oil. To answer your first questions, yes, you need to drain the catch can from time to time.
In regards to your second request of determining why the turbo is smoking, first take a look at a few things. When you say the turbo is smoking, I assume the housing itself is causing the concern and not anything coming from the exhaust. It sounds to me as if the original owner should never have been around a wrench, so check a few things once the turbocharger is cool. First off, check the oil lines to the turbo itself. Turbos require lubrication, which is actually just motor oil circulated through the bearing assembly. Make sure the lines are tight and not stripped. If they are leaking, oil could be leaking onto the housing and burning off. I have no idea if the SRT-4 has a liquid cooled turbo, but it so, engine coolant will be circulated through the housing to cool it down. If so, check these lines as well and make sure they are tight and clean. And perhaps just the sloppy install of the intake and catch can resulted in some oil residue contacting the turbo housing, and of course you have already taken care of this.
If the oil smoke is coming from the exhaust you have an entirely different problem, and MUCH more interesting
. Give me a shout if this is the case.Hope this info helps, and perhaps someone who is more familiar with these cars can offer an opinion as well.
Terry
02-23-2008, 04:35 PM
#4
Moderator Alumnus
http://www.velocityfactor.net/wwwroo...idproduct=2829
I'm assuming this is what you saw.
http://www.srtforums.com/forums/f24/alot-oil-403990/
^^found this and more stories about the SRT-4 blow by systems.
The white smoke your friend is expierencing is probably just the oil leakage from the catch can not installed properly and dripping onto the exhaust manifold or anything else running hot for that matter.
Curious to know what happens next.
I'm assuming this is what you saw.
http://www.srtforums.com/forums/f24/alot-oil-403990/
^^found this and more stories about the SRT-4 blow by systems.
The white smoke your friend is expierencing is probably just the oil leakage from the catch can not installed properly and dripping onto the exhaust manifold or anything else running hot for that matter.
Curious to know what happens next.
02-23-2008, 06:21 PM
#5
Everyone's post was on-point, even Water-S....
Oil blow-by happens in non-FI cars too so its not just when the turbo is spinning. Your friend needs to drain the oil catch can before it gets full, there should be some sort of gauge to determine how much oil is in it. I think when an oil catch can overflows, the oil goes back into the intake anyway, defeating the purpose. So tell him to keep an eye on it, and his oil level.
Oil blow-by happens in non-FI cars too so its not just when the turbo is spinning. Your friend needs to drain the oil catch can before it gets full, there should be some sort of gauge to determine how much oil is in it. I think when an oil catch can overflows, the oil goes back into the intake anyway, defeating the purpose. So tell him to keep an eye on it, and his oil level.
02-23-2008, 10:31 PM
#6
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Originally Posted by I Go To Costco
Everyone's post was on-point, even Water-S....
http://www.dodgeforum.com/fb.asp?m=84118
Originally Posted by Barneydriver
the pcv is on top of the valve cover and releases oil that blows past the internals under high boost situations. all it does is release the oil to get it out of the engine. you could just run a tube down to the bottom of the motor and it would drain to the ground, but of course the epa doesn't like that, so they require a return hose which sends the oil back to the intake manifold where it is burned. this theoretically will reduce power since the oil takes the place of air that could be used for combustion. however, it primarily just gunks stuff up. therefore you put on an occ to separate the oil b4 it gets into the intake to prevent this problem.
like i said, if you wanted to, you could just run a tube to the bottom and drain it to the ground- dcx obviously can't design it that way due to legal reasons, and most of us either don't want to pollute or don't want oil all over the garage floor or bottom of the car.
like i said, if you wanted to, you could just run a tube to the bottom and drain it to the ground- dcx obviously can't design it that way due to legal reasons, and most of us either don't want to pollute or don't want oil all over the garage floor or bottom of the car.
02-23-2008, 10:54 PM
#7
Originally Posted by NSXNEXT
You give him waaaay to much credit.
http://www.dodgeforum.com/fb.asp?m=84118
http://www.dodgeforum.com/m_84043/mp...l,catch/tm.htm
http://www.dodgeforum.com/fb.asp?m=84118
http://www.dodgeforum.com/m_84043/mp...l,catch/tm.htm
Wait..................I just answered by own question.
Terry
Trending Topics
02-24-2008, 01:11 AM
#8
Originally Posted by NSXNEXT
You give him waaaay to much credit.
http://www.dodgeforum.com/fb.asp?m=84118
http://www.dodgeforum.com/m_84043/mp...l,catch/tm.htm
http://www.dodgeforum.com/fb.asp?m=84118
http://www.dodgeforum.com/m_84043/mp...l,catch/tm.htm
Err... everyone, including Barneydriver and except for Water-S, was correct.
02-24-2008, 01:22 AM
#9
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Originally Posted by SuperTrooper169
1. Could the catch can have anything to do with the smoke he's seeing coming from the turbo? The line that ran back to the turbo was in a really tight spot in the back and since the turbo was smoking hot I couldn't quite get in there to check out the hose clamp to make sure it's tight.
2. If that clamp is not tight could that be spilling oil onto the hot turbo thus making it smoke? Is there any common problems with a catch can that would create a leak at the turbo? He did notice the smoke only appears after he's been spooling the turbo up but if he lays off the turbo and never creates any boost going to it when he parks the car he doesn't notice any smoke. So am I correct to believe that the oil blow-by only occurs when the turbo is spinning? Again, I do have engine knowledge but it's all N/A, no turbo experience at all. So any info would be grateful.
2. If that clamp is not tight could that be spilling oil onto the hot turbo thus making it smoke? Is there any common problems with a catch can that would create a leak at the turbo? He did notice the smoke only appears after he's been spooling the turbo up but if he lays off the turbo and never creates any boost going to it when he parks the car he doesn't notice any smoke. So am I correct to believe that the oil blow-by only occurs when the turbo is spinning? Again, I do have engine knowledge but it's all N/A, no turbo experience at all. So any info would be grateful.
2. Probably not
Yes, the catch can should be emptied.
Sounds like the turbo is bad. How many miles are on this thing? Sounds like he bought it modded - any history on the car?
Checkout www.srtforums.com for more info.
Edit: Just realized he said the smoke is coming from the engine bay. Yea, it sounds like an oil leak.
02-24-2008, 12:59 PM
#11
In the Mid-South meow
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Thanks for all the info guys. I'm going to have check it out for him soon.
The car only has a little over 40k miles on it so I hope it's not the actual turbo. It was modded when he bought it and I know the guy took it to the track and ran a high 13 with it, so obviously he didn't really baby it, but then again what's the point of having an SRT-4 if you're going to baby it. It definitely has a purpose and that's to go fast in a straight line and apparently that's what the previous owner did.
Judging by the way he put the intake and catch can on though I'm 99% sure it's a loose oil line. I'll update once I check it out.
The car only has a little over 40k miles on it so I hope it's not the actual turbo. It was modded when he bought it and I know the guy took it to the track and ran a high 13 with it, so obviously he didn't really baby it, but then again what's the point of having an SRT-4 if you're going to baby it. It definitely has a purpose and that's to go fast in a straight line and apparently that's what the previous owner did.
Judging by the way he put the intake and catch can on though I'm 99% sure it's a loose oil line. I'll update once I check it out.
02-24-2008, 02:01 PM
#12
02-24-2008, 02:07 PM
#13
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Originally Posted by sho_nuff1997
you guys couldn't tell it wasn't water-s just by the proper grammar and punctuation?
02-24-2008, 02:56 PM
#14
GEEZER
Originally Posted by stright-(paint)balling
okay the point of the SRT-4 catch can is this :
the pcv is on top of the valve cover and releases oil that blows past the internals under high boost situations. all it does is release the oil to get it out of the engine. you could just run a tube down to the bottom of the motor and it would drain to the ground, but of course the epa doesn't like that, so they require a return hose which sends the oil back to the intake manifold where it is burned. this theoretically will reduce power since the oil takes the place of air that could be used for combustion. however, it primarily just gunks stuff up. therefore you put on an occ to separate the oil before it gets into the intake to prevent this problem.
like i said, if you wanted to, you could just run a tube to the bottom and drain it to the ground- dodge obviously can't design it that way due to legal reasons, and most of us either don't want to pollute or don't want oil all over the garage floor or bottom of the car.
the pcv is on top of the valve cover and releases oil that blows past the internals under high boost situations. all it does is release the oil to get it out of the engine. you could just run a tube down to the bottom of the motor and it would drain to the ground, but of course the epa doesn't like that, so they require a return hose which sends the oil back to the intake manifold where it is burned. this theoretically will reduce power since the oil takes the place of air that could be used for combustion. however, it primarily just gunks stuff up. therefore you put on an occ to separate the oil before it gets into the intake to prevent this problem.
like i said, if you wanted to, you could just run a tube to the bottom and drain it to the ground- dodge obviously can't design it that way due to legal reasons, and most of us either don't want to pollute or don't want oil all over the garage floor or bottom of the car.
02-24-2008, 04:08 PM
#15
Originally Posted by Will Y.
W/o casting aspersions on water-s, the grammar in the quote is not proper ("epa.... so they...," etc.) and the punctuation is bad, i.e. capitalization is non-existent.
02-24-2008, 04:16 PM
#16
Drives With Hands
Originally Posted by SakiGT
Sounds like the turbo is bad. How many miles are on this thing? Sounds like he bought it modded - any history on the car?
Checkout www.srtforums.com for more info.
Edit: Just realized he said the smoke is coming from the engine bay. Yea, it sounds like an oil leak.
Checkout www.srtforums.com for more info.
Edit: Just realized he said the smoke is coming from the engine bay. Yea, it sounds like an oil leak.
02-24-2008, 05:29 PM
#17
Originally Posted by rmpage
Yeah, I'd say he's losing an oil seal in the turbo. The catch can could be full, and bubbling spillover into the intake tract, but I'm doubtful that spillover alone would make a HUGE amount of smoke.
Terry
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