Courtesy of Snook789

http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showth...threadid=29115

http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showth...threadid=29116

 

hehe - we both saw this

So folks still think the '03 CLS 6MT is not gonna be changed fairly substantially?

Acura is on the move! Not good for resale ... but they have to do it to keep up I guess.

 

Thanks for the news, but you’re 5-minutes behind provench.

Shawn S

 

Hehe - that is because I am on vacation and have no life this week (except riding my Yamaha Wolverine maybe )

 

Hey Eric, for your slow response time,

 

 

That's not news.

A totally redesigned TL for '03 has been part of the product map forever.

Just read any of the "future cars" articles from the past 2 years.

You kids.

 

from a business standpoint, this makes no sense...Acura's revenue is coming primarily from the TL and RSX...all the others have fallen off the planet sales-wise...i posted sales figures about a month ago from Bloomberg...perhaps the TL is also getting a 6-speed.

 

For all you people who were asleep last week:

from the link thats been on our homepage forever: http://www.vtec.net/news/modelmatrix.html (read bottom bout TL)

and from MotorTrend...
http://www.motortrend.com/future/2003.html

you will find same info on any place that sums up whats new for '03.

 

well, for one, the TL is not for American market only.

two... it makes sense if you follow Acura's product lifecycle... redesign every 4-yrs, and facelift the year before.

Thats what they do for most of their cars... minus the NSX and former Integra...

BUT... even the NSX got a face lift this year in preperation for next years redesign.

This is why I keep bitching that the CL changes will be premature if it gets facelift for '03.

 

I don't understand why people are bitching about this over there?!?

This is not news!

It has been forecast for an incredible amount of time that there would be a NEW TL for '03 or '04 at latest. Not a Facelift... but a NEW TL.

Even Honda execs have been quoted as saying that they had the TL on a set life cycle.

 

u call over 500 changes to the TL a facelift??? that's some Liz Taylor facelift!!

changing something like the headlights in the NSX only is what i call a facelift.

 

ummm, ok. The accord/CL/TL is on honda's global platform. If they are getting a whole new design, doesnt that mean our CLs are getting a whole new design also?? I was pissed that the 6mt CL is getting a new look already, now this. geez. I only had my car for 5 weeks, this is definitly my last acura. I should have paid the extra money to get a bmw, at least they wont change their body for like 7-8 years.

 

oh puhhhleeez. that was just marketing speak...

it was simply a facelift!

it is the same car... same exact body panels aft of the a-pillar. same drivetrain...

identical car apart from a few aesthetics and the addition of a type-s variant.

 

if I have the money, i would stand outside an acura dealer, whoever wants to buy an acura, i would give them $5k so they can go get a bmw. Anyone wanna buy my CL with 1900miles??????

 

yes that's true, and i indicated that on my post last week from our auto analyst team here at Merrill Lynch, a new 2004 TL will exist, which is y i simply don't get it...if anything, the car should debut in March '03 as an '04 model.

 

o i get it...so now u're saying Acura is getting into the false advertising market??

u know what i think adam?? i think u're full of sheit :P

right, Acura wants to spend all this money to make all these changes to the car for 1 year, then do it all over again for a new design...where's the logic man???

 

Nooooo. Not if they do it in time for it to follow its original life cycle. Which was supposed to include a complete redesign for 2003.

That would mean it will debut at this years auto shows... hence the prototype pics coming soon.


And all you people bitching bout Acura saying BMW doesnt do this is just spitting on themselves.

If you don't forget... the 3 series sedan is on nearly the same lifecycle as the TL.

They just facelifted the 325i & 330i for this year. Meaning the coupe changes next year, the cabriolet at the same time or just after... and then the M3. So.... same exact life span as the TL and what the CL was originally planned to be.

Granted, BMW doesnt go changing their entire drivetrain... but hey... you guys have been bitching about our FWD and Slushbox forever, now their probably answering our whining. Point is, from an aesthetics point of view... every manufacturer is doing the same thing.

Oh, and wait, BMW does make drive train changes as well... their adding SMG to the lineup. Would suck to be a '01 slushbox driver no?

You see what im trying to say.

 

What will happen, is this:

1) minor Facelift for CL and TL for Mrach 02.
2) 6 Speed CLS with HP bump to 280HP or 295HP
Why the HP bump cause the Accord will have 240HP J32A1.5
3) That is all!

2004 Models are based on new platform, Maybe 4x4!

 

ok. im full of shit...

why am I full of shit? because this is HOW IT IS!?!? look at the facts holmes.


and i didnt say anything about false advertising. but 500 changes is a big claim that goes unaccounted for by the driver/owner.

fact is, they only changed forward body panels. thats a fact.... fact is... drive train remains the same... platform is the same...

it was simply an AESTHETIC facelift for the '02 TL. How can you deny that?


oh wait... your right, why would Acura do that?

Its not like they arent doing the same thing with the NSX, face-lift, redesign.

Or the same thing with the RL, facelift, redesign.

That is what they do.

500 changes accounts for sooo many stupid lil things, the length of a wiper fluid hose. The color of the engine cover. heh... get serious... are you trying to say that MARKETING isnt played like that?

That also probably includes all the changes that make it a Type-S.

 

finally, someone who knows what he's talkin bout

j/k Adam

thank u, come again!!

 

well sort of.

The TL already got its minor facelift.

The CL & TL are on the same platform... but that doesnt mean when one changes... the other does the same year.

Thats not how it works.

Since we all like to compare BMW, look at them, they changed their sedan this year, but the coupe wont follow until next. Same went for last generation.

Soo...

2002: TL got facelift.
2003: CL facelift, TL seems to get redesign at its earliest prediction.
2004: CL will prolly follow suit with new design/platform/drivetrain.


And yes, THEY ARE GOING TO BE AWD.


Ive said a million times that VTM-4 was designed with an intents for sporty car use... every techinical detail about it points that direction.


But, besides that, it has been confirmed that the ACCORD is going to a AWD platform. So obviously, the TL/CL will not remain FWD.


and yes, as with any "new model" it will probably receive more power, and likely by means of increased displacement.... sicne manufacturers like to brage about liters these days.


and yea, the 6spd. well... we know bout that already.

 

ok adam, think like a businessman...500 changes accounts for so many stupid things right??? maybe, but guess what?? 500 changes accounts for big $$$ in spending when u add it all up.

who gives a shit about whether the wiper hose is 6 feet or 5 and a half feet, it's ALL ABOUT THE MONEY...u think money grows on trees??? u think this "facelift" came cheap??? c'mon, this is VERY unlike a car company, no??

 

dude, WTF are you talking about?

you honestly believe that these changes for CL/TL will happen in the SAME year? thats ridiculous. wont happen.


did you look at the links that started this topic? theres 4 of them... all seem to be saying new TL for '03. So why is it so hard to believe?


Regardless, the TL IS getting redesigned. Majority of signs right now are pointing at 2003 MY. Maybe thats false, maybe it will be 2004.

But don't expect the CL to change that same year. The CL will trail by one year.

Otherwise what would they get all the gullible '03 owners to trade for in '04? silly rabbits.

 

scooter. you are completely right. it cost money...

WHAT IS YOUR POINT?

They made money with all the people that ran out and bout the '02 TL... that includes the prolly 50 people from ACL/ATL that traded in for one.


I don't understand your argument.


Are you telling me their not gonna make all those chanegs and then do a complete redesign?

Go read the marketing speak for this years RL. They claimed a ludicrous amount of changes for that "facelift" too.

Read the speak for the facelifted NSX... same story.


Yet, both those cars are getting a COMPLETE redesign for the following year.

And no, its not unlike other car companys. They all do this...

BMW does it.

They all do it.

Shit, the new WRX just got a complete redesign yet its being facelifted already.

 

go to that motortrend link i posted a few posts back...

read about all the cars from '01 to '05. you will see that this is how it works. logical or not.

 

this is what im talking about adam...2002 TL gets a "facelift"...2002 CL get's a 6-speed...that to me is a change both in the CL and TL in the same year, u silly fukin rabbit!!!

uhhh, yeah i looked at the links that started this topic, have u looked at ANY of my responses, aka "from a business standpoint, this makes no sense...", "500 changes is some facelift...", "according to Merrill Lynch research, 2004 the TL comes out brand new"...so adam, u do the math...NOTHING makes sense about this...500 changes, NO MATTER HOW STUPID OR PETTY THEY ARE, they're still changes, and those changes cost money, and for what??? a facelift?? now THAT is ridiculous, and THAT'S y it is so hard to believe.

finally, according to Merrill Lynch research, the CL will not b changing until after 2005 besides the 6-speed (if that actually happens)

ok

 

you just shot yourself in the foot dood.

the 2002 CL did not get a 6-spd. It is getting the 6-spd and... assuming the facelift... for 2003.

 

2003 tl all new.. :'( :'( :'( Oh someone hold me!!!!

 

look at bright side.

all signs are pointing to drive layout changes... meaning their going either AWD or RWD.

hopefully they will go RWD at least that way... us notherners can still hold resale value on our cars by owning FWD in the snow belt!

if they go AWD... we uhh.. suck.

but the new shit will be hot either way!

 

D'oh!!

I was looking for another post on this but couldn't find it.. must be in one of the other post..

but either case.. glad it's happening.. , a new TL-S sounds nice..

Hope you enjoy your new CL-S Shawn, seems like you are one of the few people who really would..

 

you mean John Casesa?

He didn't say that. I just called him.

 

I never understood why the people in the south would want a FWD car anyways... If i lived down there i would be sporting a RWD car fo sure!!!

 

Acura will probably come out with an AWD 325HP 6-Speed CL in 2005 so Shawn can take it DRY UP THE ASS again on a trade of his “outdated” 2003.

Shawn S

 

well, if these predictions are true, new TL for '03... then you will be taking it up the ass for the redesigned CL for MY 2004.

Meaning, spring of next year you will have yet, another red rocket.

 

Screw that.....I’m sticking with Home Theater upgrades & DVD purchases after I get my 6-Speed.
Too much money trying to chase this mess.

Shawn S

 

Hmm - think I better go for the 2 year lease instead of 3

I am gonna love the 6sp for 03 anyway ... next trade-in will only be cause of AWD ... then the CLS might handle on rails

 

soopa i realize some of these challanges were intended to be beligerant(sp?) so dont get defensive...but my opinion on this is this:'03 cl type -? 6 mt will be this new platform but the cl-s/p will remain through 03 on the old platform...done to bring attention to the performance oriented 6 speed awd coupe (dreaming ) then in fall of '02 the tl and accord bring there new redesigned 03's to the market on this new paltform the cl6mt is on....hp bumps discplacement bumps and hopfully in the case of acura some increased level of refinement placing it more closly compared to lexus and BMW...all of these are opinions...but ask yourself...why didnt we get the 6mt in august like first mentioned...it's not like that would have been hard if it were to remain on the current global mid size platform...???

 

You are just trying to make Shawn S and I impatient aren't you ! hehe ... I hope you are right, but I would guess only a small facelift and some minor mods for 03 ... but I HOPE that I am wrong

 

After all this talk, it seems acura service was right indeed. Something wicked this way comes