teranfon

Been a little chilly as of late. Minus thirty at the farm last night, but apparently its going to warm up quite drastically. Heard its been a strange winter down your way as well.

Thanks for the advice. I'll try tapping the clutch when I shift into gear. Generally I only press the clutch in about an inch when on the roll.

BTW, did you see the write-up of the Ford Interceptor concept in Autoweek? 400 hp plus cammer with six-speed. Hope a variant makes it into production.

Take care,
Terry

SouthernBoy

Yes, except for the synchronizers. Rev-mathcing without spinning up the drive gears by engaging the clutch as you blip the throttle in the neutral gate (double clutching) will match engine speed to wheel speed more readily, but the synchros will have to work harder (as in apply more friction) to match the gear speeds just before the mesh of the dog teeth.

Try this. Get your car going up to, say, 20 MPH and be in third gear. Then remove your foot from the throttle, disengage the clutch, and try to shift into 2nd gear (don't let the clutch out when you complete the shift). You'll notice a fair amount of resistance to the shifter as you force it into 2nd. This resistance is the result of the synchronizers doing their job of gear speed matching. Now do the same thing, only this time include rev-matching and letting the clutch out as you pass through the neutral gate. If you were successful in your attempt, you will feel virtually no resistance to your shift and the shifter will go into 2nd almost as though it was pulled in.

SouthernBoy

Minus 30??!!? Whoa, that is COLD. Yep, today was no party. Not much snow (3"), but frozen rain and sleet to mess things up. I do not like the cold (should come as no surprise).

I didn't see the writeup you mentioned. I'll have to check it out. I did see where Dodge is going to up the anti with their Viper in order to compete better against the Z06. Suppose to get 600 HP next year with a slight increase in displacement. Should get interesting.. as if it wasn't already.

SouthernBoy

BTW, did you see the recent Barrett-Jackson actions? Some really sweeeeeeet machinery going out the door. Five-million for one of Carroll Shelby's personal A/C 427 Cobra's. Just so much great stuff.

cheepung

Thank you so much. This has been a unanswer question for me for a long long time until your post today . I will double clutching instead the short cut i have been using. It is always very smooth from 5 to 4 but not always smooth from 5 to 3. I need to practice more.

teranfon

Yeah, I was lucky enough to be on stage when it was up. Bid on an Eliminator and a Marauder, but no luck. Not to steer the thread off topic, but here's a photo that I know you will appreciate.

The heavens were in alignment for me that day:
My Shelby shirt signed by Carroll Shelby and Edsel Ford at the auction.

ck123

wow spent 20 minutes just atfirst and mastered up shifting. cant feel a thing anymore. my problem was that i was letting the clutch out too slow and not apply gas right after the clutch was released.

right now i let go of the clutch fast and immediately apply gas...im not sure if i apply gas before its 100% out tho. i hope what im doing is good for the car.

Will Y.

Congrats; sounds like you're on the right track. If that Civic in your avatar is the stick shift car you bought, then yes, Honda clutches are much more "sudden," quicker and less forgiving than most other automakers' clutches. On the other hand, Hondas are more fun to drive once the driver is used to the clutch. However, I really learned to shift on a little Toyota pickup with a really long-travel forgiving clutch while driving around San Francisco near and in Nob Hill.
And yes, apply a little gas before the clutch pedal is all the way out; you'll get the feel of what works best pretty quickly with a little practice. My 1988 Integra likes to be at 1200 RPM or so before full clutch engagement.

ck123

civic is mine, but its auto. two days ago i got an 01 integra ls. i love driving stick now.
starting from a dig is still 50/50 in terms of smoothness. its not a second nature yet, but i hope soon. gotto learn downshifting the proper way as southernboy says.

got another question for you guys.. say im coasting at 25mph in neutral. i want to pop it into third. whats the right way to do it?

teranfon

If the revs are matched correctly, then slipping into gear shouldn't be a problem. Depending on the speed of the car and engine, a higher or lower gear may be more appropriate. Don't force whatever gear you try, but instead try a different gear if the one chosen is reluctant to go in.

Terry

SouthernBoy

Careful with letting out the clutch too fast. The key is getting it engaged quickly (to keep the deliberate slipping to a minium) while doing this smoothly and seemless. Too fast and you're back to the jerking motion. Try to find the correct balance for your car.

cheepung

For me i just pump the rpm a bit from 500 to around 1200 and shift into 3. Pretty smooth. I used to just drop into 3 without rev match. Not anymore.

ck123

thanks, so the key is get the rpms corresponding to the speed in the desired gear?


1.whats the proper way to approach a stop sign?
this is how i do it, tell me if its bad for the car.

going 30mph on 4th gear, as i am approaching the stop sign i hit both the clutch and brakes and shift into 1st gear getting ready to accelerate again. i dont let go of the clutch until the intersection is clear and i can go.

2.is it bad to let the car roll on high gear and low speed ? ex: 4th gear rolling @ 10mph?

cheepung

First, I just learn to drive a stick few years ago. I think the way you do it considers riding the clutch. Just like you holding the gear on traffic light to turn green. Please correct me if anyone disagrees? I only use the clutch when necessary. This is my way

Stop Sign:
Use brake to slow down
Drop into neutral around 30 mph
Fully stop the car with brake
Press clutch and shift into 1 and go

Traffic light: still red
Use brake to slow down
Drop into neutral around 30 mph
Fully stop the car with brake
Press clutch and shift into 1 and go when light turns green

Traffic light: Red and turn into green
Use brake to slow down
Drop into neutral around 30 mph
Rev match into 2 or 3 if the car still rolling

2.is it bad to let the car roll on high gear and low speed ? ex: 4th gear rolling @ 10mph?

It is ok as long the car is not chocking.

SouthernBoy

It is not wise to let a car coast in neutral at any kind of speed. In the event you need power, like RIGHT NOW, you will lose precious time getting into gear and moving out.

I responded to ck123's PM to me a few minutes ago about this very question. He is free to post it should he wish.. I just don't feel like typing it over again.

As for doing this; "going 30mph on 4th gear, as i am approaching the stop sign i hit both the clutch and brakes and shift into 1st gear getting ready to accelerate again. i dont let go of the clutch until the intersection is clear and i can go", I most strongly recommend against shifting into 1st gear while traveling close to 30 MPH. You will significantly shorten the life of your synchronizers by doing this unless you double clutch. And at 30 MPH, double clutch for a downshift to 1st gear is not something left to chance or the uninitiated. Don't do it.

Leo Type-S

i'm pretty much learning too and it's pretty easy. i got it down almost smoothly after about a week.

ck123

this is my third day, learned a alot so far. but i still cannot get 1st gear to be smooth all the time. and 1-2 is jerky half the time. this is frustrating. ive caused my car to jerk so much, what gets damage from this?

psteng19

Clutch, motor mounts.

psteng19

Integra... that's a 5 speed right?

I would guess you would need to blip to about 2000 rpm and then engage clutch.

Here's a useful tip.
ALWAYS rev match when downshifting. Your clutch and passengers will thank you.

psteng19

That would depend what RPM you're in.
If you're ~1500 rpm, the engine is not making any power anyway, so you would have to end up downshifting which would take the same time as shifting from neutral to the proper gear.
Not that I'm disagreeing with you or anything.

For me, the reason against coasting in neutral would be that the freewheeling feeling is not very confidence inspiring.

psteng19

Personally, I find Honda clutches very, VERY forgiving when compared to Nissan clutches.

ck123

how much punishment can the motor mount take? the car seems a little more shaky than before, just a little bit

cheepung

I found this by chance. Here is another tip.

During traffic jam, you wish you are riding a auto than stick shift car. Here is how to make one if you never know yet.

Press clutch and shift into 1 or 2 depend on speed
Release clutch while giving some gas
Release gas as well
The car is rolling slowly without applying gas or clutch
Only work on 1 and 2 only

I am pretty sure there is no harm to anything. Anyone disagree? Hope that help or sorry if anyone knew that 10 years ago.

vishnus11

I've found it useful to double-clutch to 1st in certain situation, such as in tighter section of an AutoX. Is there anything wrong with doing this?

Btw, thanks for the great writeup

Costco

Just wanna ask another question... I'm not sure if I'm doing any harm to my transmission or not.

Its pretty natural for me to shift into the next gear by letting off the gas, pushing the shifter through the neutral gate, THEN pushing in the clutch and putting it into the next gear. Of course I always rev-match when I downshift, but is this method doing any harm?

Also, how do you shift without using the clutch at all? I'm too scared to try it, my tranny has 150k miles on it and its still shifting great... mainly because I haven't tried something like that yet. I mean, how would you even get into 1st gear at all without your clutch?

S A CHO

Always shift with the clutch, the synchros in the tranny do not appreciate the mashing of gears.

I don't really understand what you mean in regards to the way you drive. When its time to shift gears, do you pull it out of gear without using the clutch, then push the clutch, then put it into gear? I've never heard of that before, but I'm pretty sure its best for the tranny if you push the clutch, then begin to shift gears.

SouthernBoy

Now this is truly one that's hard to beat.

SouthernBoy

I admit to moving the shifter into neutral when approaching a red stop light at relatively slow speeds. However, like you, I also am not fond of coasting along, as in down a hill or such, in neutral for your reasons and a few more.

SouthernBoy

I tend to "time" my movements in heavy traffic (like late this afternoon) so that I am not constantly in and out of the clutch and gearbox, but I do not lag behind so much as to be a hinderance or irritant to other drivers or to invite someone to shoot in front of me when they shouldn't. This generally means really slow speeds which, if you're lucky, means you might be able to creep along in first gear.

SouthernBoy

Not sure what an AutoX is.. please satisfy my ignorance of the term. As for your question, as long as the speed at which you're traveling does not tax your engine for the downshift, you should be fine and double-clutching would be the way to go (it is anyway).

Thanks for the kind words.. glad you found it helpful.

SouthernBoy

When I read your first question, your statement, "shift into the next gear" infers an upshift, but then I see you mention downshifting in the next sentence. So I am going to assume for your first sentence, you are referring to upshifting.

You should start your upshift at the same time that you disengage the clutch, NOT when you start to disengage the clutch. The reason for this is if you start moving the shifter to the next gear, you are causing the shifting fork to disengage the dog teeth from their hubs. With the clutch still engaged, there will be both positive and negative torque delivered to these teeth while they are separating. This will increase wear on the dog teeth and in the worse case. can break one or more off.

As for shifting without using a clutch, you apply just enough throttle to reach a point of neutral input to the transmission (as in little or no positive or negative torque). Then you shift into neutral and continue to work the throttle to gain the same effect for the next chosen gear while applying slight pressure to the shifter. At some point you'll reach at point at which the engine and wheel speed are near perfectly matched and at that time, your pressure on the shifter will cause it to go into gear. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND AGAINST EVER DOING THIS UNLESS YOU ARE IN A SITUATION WHERE THERE IS NO OTHER WAY IN WHICH TO ENGAGE THE TRANSMISSION.

Will Y.

Yes, this also worked for me with 2nd gear in the Integra in traffic. The Integra has a pretty high first gear, but 2nd is good for 5 mph-20 mph traffic speeds.
I think vishnus11 means "autocross"-- I used to do a bit of Solo II autocrossing with the SCCA, which was often a lot of 2nd gear turns and short 3d gear straights.
I hated corners that require 1st gear, though.

psteng19

Here's my question.
If I creep along in low speeds, especially in first gear, the car will jerk and rock back and forth - sometimes violently.
At times when I'm lazy, I'll just let it settle and smoothen itself out.
But aside from lazy times, to me that's a signal to clutch in.

Is it bad to let it rock like that?

cheepung

Did you give the car some gas before let go the gas pedal? Or you just shift into 1 without any gas and let the car smooth itself out?

My car never jerk or rock by going this auto way in manual car. Very smooth slow speed. I always give some gas before let go. I am not sure any harm if the car jerk or rock like that.

SouthernBoy

I suspect you mean that your Integra's first gear was pretty low instead of high. If it were a high ratio (taller gear), you could stretch it out for a bit before shifting to second. A lower ratio (shorter gear), you get good acceleration, but have to shift to second soon. (EX: a 3.335 first gear is pertty low, whereas a 2.52 is a bit higher).

I should have know that AutoX referred to autocross... sorry. I did attend several autocross meets in my youth, but my first love in autosports is drag racing.

SouthernBoy

One of the nice little lesser-known features of the TL is this. At very low speeds, say in first gear and heavy traffic, the ECU will reduce the amount of throttle response to avoid that jerking you tend to get under such conditions. It also does this to reduce the chance that you could run into the vehicle in front of you if you inadvertantly tip into the throttle a little more than you should.

Will Y.

You're right. My Integra has a ridiculously lower gear ratio (which is numerically high)-- 4.21 or thereabouts for 1st gear!

psteng19

I drive a TSX and while it does jerk a bit in low speeds, it's no where near as bad as it is in my '96 Sentra.

So I guess maybe the TSX has this feature as well.

wonton

I read that double clutching is highly not recommended on the newer cars. well I have a 97 cl and when i shift from 4th to 5th i always feel this grind on my shift knob and when i double clutch then the gear can get into 5th without the grinding. I thought i would be doing more damage if i went to 5th with the grind then double clutching witout the grind. So whats better for my car? i hate the grind but i feel i need to double clutch just so that it wont grind. and when i mean double clutch i sometimes have to press the clutch from 4th then put it into neutral then clutch-cluctch then shift to 5th instead of just one clutch other wise it would have a slight grind. Anyone tell me if this is better?

Costco

It definitely is better, I don't see how it wouldn't be recommended for newer cars. It may wear down the clutch just a little bit more, but it would save your synchros.