Murcielago owner's nightmare and near-death...
11-08-2006, 11:57 AM
#41
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what if the said engine bonnet was relpaced and the shop that replaced used different screws im just saying that because we dont know the full story
11-08-2006, 11:59 AM
#42
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Thread Starter
OMG. 
Could it be that Lambo is really owned by Sony--the makers of the PS3...?!??!???!??
Could it be that Lambo is really owned by Sony--the makers of the PS3...?!??!???!??
11-08-2006, 12:26 PM
#43
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Srika,
According to the articles it is stated that Journalists or Test drivers get to drive the preproduction cars. It is not actually stated that a Test driver was at the wheel. It is also stated that it is not unusual to wreck preproduction cars.
Agreed he did not just learn to drive yesterday, then again quite a few drivers can make that statement and they wreck cars of all manner and sort.
I do not doubt the skill of a paid test driver from any auto maker however as i mentioned above it is never actually stated that a test driver wrecked one.
What I said about the quality of fasteners was more a reflection on the apparent attitude that us mere mortals in our Opels, Alfas,Skodas ( I live in Germany by the by) should be OK with lesser materials but the upper class should have at the least stainless steel. Keep in mind this person purchased a USED car. Maybe the car was wrecked or the previous owner kept them ....... or maybe Lamborghini decided that in a company that has untill very recently never shown a financial report that was not printed with red ink(untill the intervention of Audi/VW) that stainless steel fasteners are just not economically realistic. Even mighty Lamborghini needs to show a profit. Filling the car with stainless is very costly. As an example take a look at a McLaren. This car was built with nothing but the finest in materials..........the price is up there with private planes and blue water sailing yachts.
It remains unclear why this person had a crash, he later in the article states he found a portion of a brake rotor.......however he never mentioned that his car had a brake rotor that was broken off. The car was examined by several agencies and no fault was ever established. Note here that these sort of examinations are performed quite often by the TÜV or similar agencies. The TÜV or other agencies like them do not fool around.These are very professional people who will find it if it is there. No mention was ever made of a broken brake rotor or faulty steering, defective tires etc. I would think that if a portion of a brake rotor was missing someone would notice that espeically considering the fact that the rims on the car apparently remained intact. Also I see that even though he found this piece he never claims it to be his. He just tells you that he found it but what he is trying to say is not really clear to me.
As far as Lamborghinis position on this I would wait and see what if anything they do. Right now all we have are the assertions of a few people who have wrecked some very expensive property. A look in wreckedexotics.com or whatever the website is called that features photos of heavily damaged upperclass cars would lead me to believe that all of these supercar makers have issues with their cars.A visit by the local auto recycler confirms my belief that ANY car is a piece of machinery that in the wrong hands under the right conditions can and often is ........Lethal.
Jens
According to the articles it is stated that Journalists or Test drivers get to drive the preproduction cars. It is not actually stated that a Test driver was at the wheel. It is also stated that it is not unusual to wreck preproduction cars.
Agreed he did not just learn to drive yesterday, then again quite a few drivers can make that statement and they wreck cars of all manner and sort.
I do not doubt the skill of a paid test driver from any auto maker however as i mentioned above it is never actually stated that a test driver wrecked one.
What I said about the quality of fasteners was more a reflection on the apparent attitude that us mere mortals in our Opels, Alfas,Skodas ( I live in Germany by the by) should be OK with lesser materials but the upper class should have at the least stainless steel. Keep in mind this person purchased a USED car. Maybe the car was wrecked or the previous owner kept them ....... or maybe Lamborghini decided that in a company that has untill very recently never shown a financial report that was not printed with red ink(untill the intervention of Audi/VW) that stainless steel fasteners are just not economically realistic. Even mighty Lamborghini needs to show a profit. Filling the car with stainless is very costly. As an example take a look at a McLaren. This car was built with nothing but the finest in materials..........the price is up there with private planes and blue water sailing yachts.
It remains unclear why this person had a crash, he later in the article states he found a portion of a brake rotor.......however he never mentioned that his car had a brake rotor that was broken off. The car was examined by several agencies and no fault was ever established. Note here that these sort of examinations are performed quite often by the TÜV or similar agencies. The TÜV or other agencies like them do not fool around.These are very professional people who will find it if it is there. No mention was ever made of a broken brake rotor or faulty steering, defective tires etc. I would think that if a portion of a brake rotor was missing someone would notice that espeically considering the fact that the rims on the car apparently remained intact. Also I see that even though he found this piece he never claims it to be his. He just tells you that he found it but what he is trying to say is not really clear to me.
As far as Lamborghinis position on this I would wait and see what if anything they do. Right now all we have are the assertions of a few people who have wrecked some very expensive property. A look in wreckedexotics.com or whatever the website is called that features photos of heavily damaged upperclass cars would lead me to believe that all of these supercar makers have issues with their cars.A visit by the local auto recycler confirms my belief that ANY car is a piece of machinery that in the wrong hands under the right conditions can and often is ........Lethal.
Jens
11-08-2006, 01:10 PM
#44
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Trust me, I was reading the article with skepticism until I got down to the part about Balboni wrecking an LP640. Most everything else became trivial, at that point. Balboni does not wreck Lambo's.
11-08-2006, 02:56 PM
#45
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Originally Posted by srika
and Lambo's extreme reluctance to deal with the issue, in any way, is very peculiar and suspicious.
Sort of like honda/acura's relucance to deal with their tranny issues..seems like they are not readily facing the facts. If this car were mass produced i bet this would be getting a LOT more attention.
Another thing worth mentioning is the speed when all these crashes occured- 220kmh is not really that fast for a lambo.
11-08-2006, 02:57 PM
#46
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That Mr. Balboni a long time test driver is for Lamborghini is is well known he has been interviewed many times, Recently I saw an interview on RTL here, in which he stated that he had wrecked a Countach quite a few years ago. Drive long enough fast enough and the odds will sooner or later catch up with you. There have been plenty of Countach wrecked over the cars long production run, one of them by Mr. Balboni . I assume then that using the logic of the Author of the internet article that this car suffers from some unknown defect that also afflicts the current car.
Many years ago Lamborghini built a car called the Miura, that car had a real problem......thanks to it's lovely shape which if viewed from the side resembles an aircraft wing. Under certain circumstances the car if driven near it's limits could become very light in the front end and if driven in this condition by a less than very experienced driver could result in the loss of control which ofcourse occasionally resulted in some serious accidents. The car was tested by several magazines which confirmed this problem however it was a problem really only for those who did not understand the cars limitations.
The question of what Lamborghini will do is really a question as to what the parent company will do. In this case we are talking about Audi/VW and as most of you know the original Audi TT suffered from lift just like the Miura did. High speed driving o the autobahn revealed that the car had a tendency to develop a lift at the rear.This in turn caused loss of control. The problem was solved with the addition of a spoiler. Since Audi/VW suffered quite a smack in the face with this car I would tend to think they will react if there is a real issue.
Jens
Many years ago Lamborghini built a car called the Miura, that car had a real problem......thanks to it's lovely shape which if viewed from the side resembles an aircraft wing. Under certain circumstances the car if driven near it's limits could become very light in the front end and if driven in this condition by a less than very experienced driver could result in the loss of control which ofcourse occasionally resulted in some serious accidents. The car was tested by several magazines which confirmed this problem however it was a problem really only for those who did not understand the cars limitations.
The question of what Lamborghini will do is really a question as to what the parent company will do. In this case we are talking about Audi/VW and as most of you know the original Audi TT suffered from lift just like the Miura did. High speed driving o the autobahn revealed that the car had a tendency to develop a lift at the rear.This in turn caused loss of control. The problem was solved with the addition of a spoiler. Since Audi/VW suffered quite a smack in the face with this car I would tend to think they will react if there is a real issue.
Jens
11-08-2006, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by JensH1963
That Mr. Balboni a long time test driver is for Lamborghini is is well known he has been interviewed many times, Recently I saw an interview on RTL here, in which he stated that he had wrecked a Countach quite a few years ago. Drive long enough fast enough and the odds will sooner or later catch up with you. There have been plenty of Countach wrecked over the cars long production run, one of them by Mr. Balboni . I assume then that using the logic of the Author of the internet article that this car suffers from some unknown defect that also afflicts the current car.
Many years ago Lamborghini built a car called the Miura, that car had a real problem......thanks to it's lovely shape which if viewed from the side resembles an aircraft wing. Under certain circumstances the car if driven near it's limits could become very light in the front end and if driven in this condition by a less than very experienced driver could result in the loss of control which ofcourse occasionally resulted in some serious accidents. The car was tested by several magazines which confirmed this problem however it was a problem really only for those who did not understand the cars limitations.
The question of what Lamborghini will do is really a question as to what the parent company will do. In this case we are talking about Audi/VW and as most of you know the original Audi TT suffered from lift just like the Miura did. High speed driving o the autobahn revealed that the car had a tendency to develop a lift at the rear.This in turn caused loss of control. The problem was solved with the addition of a spoiler. Since Audi/VW suffered quite a smack in the face with this car I would tend to think they will react if there is a real issue.
Jens
Many years ago Lamborghini built a car called the Miura, that car had a real problem......thanks to it's lovely shape which if viewed from the side resembles an aircraft wing. Under certain circumstances the car if driven near it's limits could become very light in the front end and if driven in this condition by a less than very experienced driver could result in the loss of control which ofcourse occasionally resulted in some serious accidents. The car was tested by several magazines which confirmed this problem however it was a problem really only for those who did not understand the cars limitations.
The question of what Lamborghini will do is really a question as to what the parent company will do. In this case we are talking about Audi/VW and as most of you know the original Audi TT suffered from lift just like the Miura did. High speed driving o the autobahn revealed that the car had a tendency to develop a lift at the rear.This in turn caused loss of control. The problem was solved with the addition of a spoiler. Since Audi/VW suffered quite a smack in the face with this car I would tend to think they will react if there is a real issue.
Jens
11-08-2006, 03:28 PM
#48
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SSMTL01
Having worked for an Acura dealer for many years when I still resided in the USA i am all too familiar with the trans issue that has haunted them. I have probably heard more good stories about the cause of the failures than you can imagine. The issue with Lamborghini is ofcourse worrisome but so far I have not seen anything that suggests a faulty part a bad design or similar that would cause this type of accident.
Assumptions wild assed guesses hearsay rumors etc etc are not the base of a lawsuit. A broken part that shows cause and effect is. Bad aerodynamics on the TT caused a problem and a little (ugly) spoiler solved it. Maybe if these rich people would hire some engineers who know how a car works they might find a real issue.
Another thing that I find interesting about the man's story is that he purchased the car used at the end of June. He wrecks it July 4th so let's assume he had the car one week. Not exacty a long time to master the very different driving experience as compared to his previous car a Porsche which has a totally different drivetrain. The car was wrecked at a speed of 220 to 240 KPH, this to me seems fairly irresponsible to try in an automobile that has some 500 HP with a driver who has about a week of wheel time.Forget the idea of practicing daily in open traffic, The autobahn is not a racetrack and is usually so full of trucks that the opportunities to actually hit those speeds for any length of time seems highly improbable.
Jens
Having worked for an Acura dealer for many years when I still resided in the USA i am all too familiar with the trans issue that has haunted them. I have probably heard more good stories about the cause of the failures than you can imagine. The issue with Lamborghini is ofcourse worrisome but so far I have not seen anything that suggests a faulty part a bad design or similar that would cause this type of accident.
Assumptions wild assed guesses hearsay rumors etc etc are not the base of a lawsuit. A broken part that shows cause and effect is. Bad aerodynamics on the TT caused a problem and a little (ugly) spoiler solved it. Maybe if these rich people would hire some engineers who know how a car works they might find a real issue.
Another thing that I find interesting about the man's story is that he purchased the car used at the end of June. He wrecks it July 4th so let's assume he had the car one week. Not exacty a long time to master the very different driving experience as compared to his previous car a Porsche which has a totally different drivetrain. The car was wrecked at a speed of 220 to 240 KPH, this to me seems fairly irresponsible to try in an automobile that has some 500 HP with a driver who has about a week of wheel time.Forget the idea of practicing daily in open traffic, The autobahn is not a racetrack and is usually so full of trucks that the opportunities to actually hit those speeds for any length of time seems highly improbable.
Jens
11-08-2006, 03:39 PM
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Nobody has been able to find the parts because they have been destroyed. And the guy did hire people to investigate. Also, judging with what he said about his friends and their cars, the lambo was probably not foreign to him at all.
11-08-2006, 03:55 PM
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The accident investigators found nothing at the scene of the accident and the car revealed no flaws. The brake rotor section he found later was according to the article very rusted and they were unable to determine the cause of failure.Don't forget he never states the rotor section was part of his car he just says he found a part of a rotor. He never mentions previous seat time in any other Lamborghini which you would think would actually strengthen his cause if it were in fact so.
Jens
Jens
11-08-2006, 04:04 PM
#51
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so basically you think the story is made up. along with all the other stuff on that page. its just a bunch of nonsense! how silly of me, it seemed so real.
11-08-2006, 04:19 PM
#52
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I read what the man wrote srika just like everybody else did. What you get out of it depends on your point of view. My point of view on this is that the man had an accident with a high powered automobile that seems to have occurred (according to him) because of a flaw in the basic design of the car. The fact is ofcourse there is a reason for the accident along with all the other accidents mentioned. However it is inferred that the car has a problem even though there is so far no concrete evidence to support that.There are no failed parts Like GM's notorious rear axle failure on the X cars in the eighties, There are no defective tires like Ford's tire debacle, nor are there legions of defective transmissions like Acura.
Please understand i am not saying the man has no claim at all it could after all be a problem does exist.However so far his story shows no evidence to support his claims.Only assumptions.
Jens
Please understand i am not saying the man has no claim at all it could after all be a problem does exist.However so far his story shows no evidence to support his claims.Only assumptions.
Jens
11-08-2006, 04:36 PM
#53
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The thing that makes this story easy to believe is that, this is not the first time I have read about Murcielagos having odd troubles. I remember a story about someone taking their brand new Murcielago home from the dealership, and the car dies on them, they cannot start it, and it has to be flatbedded back to the dealer for repair. Can you imagine that. Now understand, this would be completely unacceptable for ANY CAR, at ANY PRICE!!!!! Of course, I guess he could have been making that story up, I mean, I do not know, FOR A FACT, that that actually happened.
And we all know Italian exotics have been classically notorious for having quirks and odd behavior. It is almost a part of the definition of an "exotic car". All these things being said, it is not exactly far-fetched to think that these Murcielagos could have really crashed due to some intrinsic defect and/or other issues.
And we all know Italian exotics have been classically notorious for having quirks and odd behavior. It is almost a part of the definition of an "exotic car". All these things being said, it is not exactly far-fetched to think that these Murcielagos could have really crashed due to some intrinsic defect and/or other issues.
11-08-2006, 07:26 PM
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Well its a known fact that ferraris as well as lambos tend to catch on fire due to high temperatures, and they are also terrible at crashes because they are not obligated by law to be crash tested (hence the splitting in half). Aside from that, I found it interesting that the guy's Lambo was bought used with aftermarket rims. Is it possible that whoever installed those wheels fucked something up that may have caused the car to suddenly steer? Also we do not know of any other things the previous owner may have done to the car that may have damaged its liability.
11-08-2006, 08:04 PM
#57
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Originally Posted by JensH1963
The accident investigators found nothing at the scene of the accident and the car revealed no flaws. The brake rotor section he found later was according to the article very rusted and they were unable to determine the cause of failure.Don't forget he never states the rotor section was part of his car he just says he found a part of a rotor. He never mentions previous seat time in any other Lamborghini which you would think would actually strengthen his cause if it were in fact so.
Jens
Jens
I am also surprised at the claim of driving 100,000 km. That's certainly not much. In the US most people would drive this far with only five years of experience.
11-08-2006, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by JensH1963
Just some observations based on what there is to read here and also seen in the pictures.
Several cars were wrecked on snowy roads that are "in good condition", That is an interesting statement. What defines "good condition"?? Unless I am mistaken I seriously doubt that these Lamborginis come equipped with anything that even remotely resembles a snow tire. The tires these cars are equipped with are just about the most useless things imaginable for wet or snow conditions.
The author says he has a 100.000 km driving experience or something thereabouts. In miles driven that is about 65 or 70 thousand, not exactly a world record by any stretch of the imagination in fact I think i drove more miles in my first year as a driver.
Frequently mention is made of driver skill, yet nothing is shown that would demonstrate such skill. When somebody comes up with a clear cut test to determine driver ability then such claims of driver skill can be made, untill then it sounds mostly like ego and chest pounding to me.
Interesting how a "jerky gas pedal" even a "blind mechanic" should notice is not enough to prevent this person from driving the car. Apparently he is as blind to the issue as everyone else .
Since when is experience on the racetrack mean that you cannot make a mistake on normal roads?? I have driven on both with a total mileage probably exceeding 500.000 miles driven in 25 years or so, I still make mistakes.
Another thing that I think is sad is the guy thinks that since these cars are so expensive every nut bolt and screw ought to be rust free......... I guess that he spent a considerable portion of his wealth on this toy, guess what I spent a lot on my car too relative to what I earn, do us normal car drivers not also deserve good fasteners?? Or is rust free only reserved for the ultra class??
He mentions a friend with a car that has water in the tailights and mold in the trunk. Was the car hit?? The car is nearly 4 years old and probably 2 years out of warranty. You would think a person with the money to buy this kind of car might get the car fixed??Plus the guy is moaning about the "e-gear" being difficult to drive. I assume this person took the car for a road test before he bought the car. Or is it in his nature to buy things he cannot manage to operate properly??
It could be the guy had a genuine manufacturer made defect that caused the crash. On the other hand he might have just plain old screwed up just like millions of other drivers out there do every year. Now his beloved toy is a junkpile and he pissed because he might not want to admit he f*cked up.
Jens
Several cars were wrecked on snowy roads that are "in good condition", That is an interesting statement. What defines "good condition"?? Unless I am mistaken I seriously doubt that these Lamborginis come equipped with anything that even remotely resembles a snow tire. The tires these cars are equipped with are just about the most useless things imaginable for wet or snow conditions.
The author says he has a 100.000 km driving experience or something thereabouts. In miles driven that is about 65 or 70 thousand, not exactly a world record by any stretch of the imagination in fact I think i drove more miles in my first year as a driver.
Frequently mention is made of driver skill, yet nothing is shown that would demonstrate such skill. When somebody comes up with a clear cut test to determine driver ability then such claims of driver skill can be made, untill then it sounds mostly like ego and chest pounding to me.
Interesting how a "jerky gas pedal" even a "blind mechanic" should notice is not enough to prevent this person from driving the car. Apparently he is as blind to the issue as everyone else .
Since when is experience on the racetrack mean that you cannot make a mistake on normal roads?? I have driven on both with a total mileage probably exceeding 500.000 miles driven in 25 years or so, I still make mistakes.
Another thing that I think is sad is the guy thinks that since these cars are so expensive every nut bolt and screw ought to be rust free......... I guess that he spent a considerable portion of his wealth on this toy, guess what I spent a lot on my car too relative to what I earn, do us normal car drivers not also deserve good fasteners?? Or is rust free only reserved for the ultra class??
He mentions a friend with a car that has water in the tailights and mold in the trunk. Was the car hit?? The car is nearly 4 years old and probably 2 years out of warranty. You would think a person with the money to buy this kind of car might get the car fixed??Plus the guy is moaning about the "e-gear" being difficult to drive. I assume this person took the car for a road test before he bought the car. Or is it in his nature to buy things he cannot manage to operate properly??
It could be the guy had a genuine manufacturer made defect that caused the crash. On the other hand he might have just plain old screwed up just like millions of other drivers out there do every year. Now his beloved toy is a junkpile and he pissed because he might not want to admit he f*cked up.
Jens
11-08-2006, 11:22 PM
#59
Originally Posted by Doobieman
Well its a known fact that ferraris as well as lambos tend to catch on fire due to high temperatures, and they are also terrible at crashes because they are not obligated by law to be crash tested (hence the splitting in half).
Ferraris split in half, because that's what they are designed to do. They break apart, thus dissipating the energy from the impact. Otherwise, all of that impact force is going to the driver. Formula 1 cars use spring-loaded screws that are designed to break off and spring out, pretty much disassembling the vehicle in case of an accident so that it could dissipate the energy. In other words, it is designed to break apart like that.
Now the reason it's okay for cars like the Enzo to split apart is because the cabin area is tubbed. The cabin itself serves as a safety cage. The rest of the car may break apart, but the cabin remains intact, protecting the driver. I haven't heard of any cases where the tub itself failed, which means it's doing what it's designed to do. Majority of passenger vehicles on sale in the world today do not have such a safety cage cabin, which is why they are not designed to break apart.
11-09-2006, 12:29 AM
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True the rotor part could have been identified, the fact that it was not eliminates it from the story as far as I am concerned. The possibility that a failed rotor can cause an accident is quite possible. In such an event the car most likely should have locked one wheel however the investigation of both the accident scene and the car revealed no such thing nor is mention made of this possibility.
srika
Most of these exotics have a sometimes earned reputation for being quirky difficult uncomfortable and yes they occasionally catch fire. As I mentioned the Miura had a tendency to become light in the front end at speed, so did the early Porsche 911. The Porsche 911 Turbo in it's original form in the seventies was a notoriously dangerous car to drive especially on even slightly damp roads. The car had earned it's reputation as a "widow maker" .Fieros routinely caught fire but then again don't be fooled so do BMW's and a variety of other cars.
The trick is that when some poor schlubb is standing next to his Passat on the autobahn (happened last week here) and the car is charcoaling itself for some unknown reason it is not as spectacular as when some rich schlubb is doing the same standing next to some super exotic.
When I worked for Ford there was an issue on the Explorer (one of the many I should say) that the rear axle would lose a "C" clip, this in turn caused the entire axle to walk out of the rear end. I saw one of these trucks that had been towed in with this problem (looked hysterical as it sat there with one axle about a foot out of the tube) nobody was hurt but it never made the papers.
Jens
True the rotor part could have been identified, the fact that it was not eliminates it from the story as far as I am concerned. The possibility that a failed rotor can cause an accident is quite possible. In such an event the car most likely should have locked one wheel however the investigation of both the accident scene and the car revealed no such thing nor is mention made of this possibility.
srika
Most of these exotics have a sometimes earned reputation for being quirky difficult uncomfortable and yes they occasionally catch fire. As I mentioned the Miura had a tendency to become light in the front end at speed, so did the early Porsche 911. The Porsche 911 Turbo in it's original form in the seventies was a notoriously dangerous car to drive especially on even slightly damp roads. The car had earned it's reputation as a "widow maker" .Fieros routinely caught fire but then again don't be fooled so do BMW's and a variety of other cars.
The trick is that when some poor schlubb is standing next to his Passat on the autobahn (happened last week here) and the car is charcoaling itself for some unknown reason it is not as spectacular as when some rich schlubb is doing the same standing next to some super exotic.
When I worked for Ford there was an issue on the Explorer (one of the many I should say) that the rear axle would lose a "C" clip, this in turn caused the entire axle to walk out of the rear end. I saw one of these trucks that had been towed in with this problem (looked hysterical as it sat there with one axle about a foot out of the tube) nobody was hurt but it never made the papers.
Jens
11-09-2006, 01:02 AM
#61
Senior Moderator
Well I guess that settles it. The Murcielago does not have any more defects than any other car has. 
11-09-2006, 09:48 AM
#63
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Originally Posted by JensH1963
Nothing is perfect .
Jens
Jens
Only old school posters will remember him, welcome back.
11-09-2006, 10:21 AM
#64
'Big Daddy Diggler'
This guy makes comments on air hoses and the car having a surging problem when hitting the gas, whats up with that. If he experienced the shuddering at least, maybe he shouldnt have purchased the car like that. And this is the reason why ultra expensive supercars are garage queens, because they are built like garage queens.
11-09-2006, 10:55 AM
#65
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Originally Posted by Black CL-S 4-Life
The one and only Jens makes his return to Acurazine Only old school posters will remember him, welcome back.
Only old school posters will remember him, welcome back. 
to all the Old School Posters from the days when it was just two Boards CL and TL .Jens
11-09-2006, 11:43 AM
#66
^ Great to have you back Jens!!
And I pretty much agree with everything you typed. Many of the same thoughts were running though my head as I was reading the article. What made me laugh the most though was the fact that he thinks 100,000km is a lot of driving experience. I too think I drove more then that my first year or year and a half with a license when I was 16!
And I pretty much agree with everything you typed. Many of the same thoughts were running though my head as I was reading the article. What made me laugh the most though was the fact that he thinks 100,000km is a lot of driving experience. I too think I drove more then that my first year or year and a half with a license when I was 16!
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