Motor Trend favors A4 over TL...
05-17-2009, 02:36 PM
#123
These magazines love to brianwash and ristrict your thought process, it's a form of control, or simply says, buy what we tell you to buy, people really need to be able to tell the difference between a normal acceleration test, that the average consumer might attempt from time to time and an excessive test that usually includes dumping the clutch or high rpm lauch and brake torquing, neither of which most people will ever try to attempt. To be fair, there are some cars that won't allow that, such as the new TL, and is why the FWD version TL may appear to be faster than the AWD, but it's only on paper. When you look at the various acceleration tests of the TL and A4, they are all over the place, it would be safe to say that the two cars appear to be fairly equal by average measure. It's clear that the 6MT TL will make it a faster vehicle in that form, as far as the auto, it would be only logical to say that the TL's merging and passing power would be far greater while delivering similar if not the same gas mileage and I think that will be more important to consumers for everyday driving.
05-17-2009, 02:49 PM
#124
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Sure, I will let you have that, the 2.0T is the same as Audi's claim, while the 3.2L is not, according to your dear Edmunds.
You seem to not understanding how the 1/4 mile thing works. Sure, the A4 takes 15s to reach the end of the 1/4 mile run, and the TL takes 14.3, that's a 0.7s difference. But you failed to realize that, in 14.3s, the TL is already at 97-98mph, while the A4, at 15s, is only a 94mph. What does that mean? Well, for the A4, by 14.3s, it would be somewhere at 92-93mph, or for the TL, by 15s, it will be at around 99mph. Still don't understanding? 0-60mph compares the time it takes to reach from 0mph to 60mph. The 0.7s difference in 1/4 mile that you are talking about, that's the difference in time it takes to get from 0mile to 1/4 mile. Still don't understanding? One measures time to speed, one measures time to distance. If you still don't understand, I don't know what else I can do. So, do you think the A4 will go from 94mph to 99mph in 1 full second? No, I don't think so. And yes, the TL's time is not even corrected, usually when corrected, it's faster.
You still fail to understand that the M3 has 414hp pushing 3700lb or so, while the S4 has 333hp or so pushing like 4000lb.
335i coupe is about $2k more expensive than 335i sedan. The S5 is priced at $51.4k, and you are saying the S4 starts at $44k. So essentially you are telling me the S4 is $7k cheaper than a S5 by going with the 3.0T engine rather than the 4.2L V8 engine. We will see about that.
You seem to not understanding how the 1/4 mile thing works. Sure, the A4 takes 15s to reach the end of the 1/4 mile run, and the TL takes 14.3, that's a 0.7s difference. But you failed to realize that, in 14.3s, the TL is already at 97-98mph, while the A4, at 15s, is only a 94mph. What does that mean? Well, for the A4, by 14.3s, it would be somewhere at 92-93mph, or for the TL, by 15s, it will be at around 99mph. Still don't understanding? 0-60mph compares the time it takes to reach from 0mph to 60mph. The 0.7s difference in 1/4 mile that you are talking about, that's the difference in time it takes to get from 0mile to 1/4 mile. Still don't understanding? One measures time to speed, one measures time to distance. If you still don't understand, I don't know what else I can do. So, do you think the A4 will go from 94mph to 99mph in 1 full second? No, I don't think so. And yes, the TL's time is not even corrected, usually when corrected, it's faster.
You still fail to understand that the M3 has 414hp pushing 3700lb or so, while the S4 has 333hp or so pushing like 4000lb.
335i coupe is about $2k more expensive than 335i sedan. The S5 is priced at $51.4k, and you are saying the S4 starts at $44k. So essentially you are telling me the S4 is $7k cheaper than a S5 by going with the 3.0T engine rather than the 4.2L V8 engine. We will see about that.
SSFTSX was
05-17-2009, 03:05 PM
#125
05-17-2009, 03:13 PM
#126
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I think your disinterest for reliability ratings stems from the fact that Audi and VW are poor in this area. If they were known to be reliable cars, I bet every one of your posts would trumpet Audi's outstanding reliability ratings.
05-17-2009, 03:57 PM
#127
I disagree. It doesn't matter how efficient diesel is. American buyers aren't quick to jump on the band wagon. Maybe if diesel fuel prices drop dramatically, VW might sell more. The fact is that both VW and Audi reputation stinks in the US. Every automaker that has tried to go head to head with the top 4 (Civic, Accord, Corolla, Camry) have come up short. Why do you think diesels from Germany are going to compete? The Jetta diesel couldn't do it.
VW dont have factory to produce Accord/Camry size car at that price. There wont be that many Civic/Accord selling if they raised the price by $8k on average. It is the price not reliability.
Acura will not sell that many TL if they raised to Audi/BMW for similar equiped. No amount of reliability study can save them.
05-17-2009, 04:13 PM
#128
Sure, I will let you have that, the 2.0T is the same as Audi's claim, while the 3.2L is not, according to your dear Edmunds.
You seem to not understanding how the 1/4 mile thing works. Sure, the A4 takes 15s to reach the end of the 1/4 mile run, and the TL takes 14.3, that's a 0.7s difference. But you failed to realize that, in 14.3s, the TL is already at 97-98mph, while the A4, at 15s, is only a 94mph. What does that mean? Well, for the A4, by 14.3s, it would be somewhere at 92-93mph, or for the TL, by 15s, it will be at around 99mph. Still don't understanding? 0-60mph compares the time it takes to reach from 0mph to 60mph. The 0.7s difference in 1/4 mile that you are talking about, that's the difference in time it takes to get from 0mile to 1/4 mile. Still don't understanding? One measures time to speed, one measures time to distance. If you still don't understand, I don't know what else I can do. So, do you think the A4 will go from 94mph to 99mph in 1 full second? No, I don't think so. And yes, the TL's time is not even corrected, usually when corrected, it's faster.
You seem to not understanding how the 1/4 mile thing works. Sure, the A4 takes 15s to reach the end of the 1/4 mile run, and the TL takes 14.3, that's a 0.7s difference. But you failed to realize that, in 14.3s, the TL is already at 97-98mph, while the A4, at 15s, is only a 94mph. What does that mean? Well, for the A4, by 14.3s, it would be somewhere at 92-93mph, or for the TL, by 15s, it will be at around 99mph. Still don't understanding? 0-60mph compares the time it takes to reach from 0mph to 60mph. The 0.7s difference in 1/4 mile that you are talking about, that's the difference in time it takes to get from 0mile to 1/4 mile. Still don't understanding? One measures time to speed, one measures time to distance. If you still don't understand, I don't know what else I can do. So, do you think the A4 will go from 94mph to 99mph in 1 full second? No, I don't think so. And yes, the TL's time is not even corrected, usually when corrected, it's faster.
You still fail to understand that the M3 has 414hp pushing 3700lb or so, while the S4 has 333hp or so pushing like 4000lb.
[quote]
335i coupe is about $2k more expensive than 335i sedan. The S5 is priced at $51.4k, and you are saying the S4 starts at $44k. So essentially you are telling me the S4 is $7k cheaper than a S5 by going with the 3.0T engine rather than the 4.2L V8 engine. We will see about that.
V8 A6 & 3.0T A6 has $9K gap and they are essentailly same car.
Carter tells us the positioning of the S4 will be slightly adjusted within the line. As most readers know, the North American S5 retains its 4.2-liter V8 for now, so that car will be positioned in more of a premium place as compared to the S4. When the S5 switches to the 3.0T with its 2011 freshening, we suspect the A5 3.2 will also disappear. In the meantime, Audi of America is doing its best to price the S4 as competitively as possible
05-17-2009, 04:52 PM
#129
Last paragraph in the Luxury Market Status is
"Available with the largest and most powerful engine in TL history, along with the sport-driving focused SH-AWD® system (the world's first torque-vectoring AWD system when introduced in 2000), the new TL arrives ready to compete with vehicles like the Audi A4 and A6, BMW 3-Series and 5-Series, Infiniti G35 and M35, Lexus ES, GS and IS sedans, and the Mercedes-Benz C-Class and E-Class."
In my interpretation that is clearly stated, it's fairly common to have vehicles covering several model ranges for marketing purposes. Many folks go in to a BMW dealership looking at a 3 series then actually purchase a 5 series. Many memebers on Acurazine have gone from a TL to a RL. So having the 4G cover marketing interests for a 3 and 5, or a C and E makes sense.
The RL is a older design and IMO competes with the 5 and E in size and class but on the next generation may be up to the S, LS, or 7 series.
Acura has made plenty of press releases in the last couple years clearly stating what their intentions are. So by reading those press releases it again clearly states Acura's direction.
I like some others on this forum have never sen them as "tier-1" but it's never bothered me in the least as they've brought some very nice products to market that are not only fun to drive but also very affordable to purchase and maintain.
"Available with the largest and most powerful engine in TL history, along with the sport-driving focused SH-AWD® system (the world's first torque-vectoring AWD system when introduced in 2000), the new TL arrives ready to compete with vehicles like the Audi A4 and A6, BMW 3-Series and 5-Series, Infiniti G35 and M35, Lexus ES, GS and IS sedans, and the Mercedes-Benz C-Class and E-Class."
In my interpretation that is clearly stated, it's fairly common to have vehicles covering several model ranges for marketing purposes. Many folks go in to a BMW dealership looking at a 3 series then actually purchase a 5 series. Many memebers on Acurazine have gone from a TL to a RL. So having the 4G cover marketing interests for a 3 and 5, or a C and E makes sense.
The RL is a older design and IMO competes with the 5 and E in size and class but on the next generation may be up to the S, LS, or 7 series.
Acura has made plenty of press releases in the last couple years clearly stating what their intentions are. So by reading those press releases it again clearly states Acura's direction.
I like some others on this forum have never sen them as "tier-1" but it's never bothered me in the least as they've brought some very nice products to market that are not only fun to drive but also very affordable to purchase and maintain.
I agree with you that i also dont consider Acura a tier 1 manufactuer and accept them for what they are. If Acura is going proceed to this Tier 1 status as they say though they are going to have to get away from marketing their cars in a general way and go after specific segments if they are going to achieve this goal.
05-17-2009, 04:58 PM
#130
This is an open thread though about Motor Trend and their comparo between the Acura TL and the Audi A4..... What are people suppose to talk about...Saab's and Fiat's.
05-17-2009, 05:06 PM
#131
I am not trying to start anything but if you post something where its the worst in its category i would love to read it. Coming from a owner of a 2.0T, i have yet to have an engine failure that left me stranded after 4 years and i cannot say the same of any Toyota, nissan or Honda product yet that i have owned.
Last edited by cp3117; 05-17-2009 at 05:09 PM.
05-17-2009, 05:43 PM
#132
I agree with you that i also dont consider Acura a tier 1 manufactuer and accept them for what they are. If Acura is going proceed to this Tier 1 status as they say though they are going to have to get away from marketing their cars in a general way and go after specific segments if they are going to achieve this goal.
Cp, this is a good point but we already discussed why this is the case on multiple occasions, no point in keeping this specific argument going. Sorry to say that "Tier 1" is an ideal not a category and doesn't exist in most segments, mass production vehicles, or any A4 or TL for that matter.
05-17-2009, 06:17 PM
#133
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Where did you get this from? The 2.0T is know as one of the best in the world in its category and from a reliabilty standpoint its anything but the worst as most reviews have praised its reliabilty.
I am not trying to start anything but if you post something where its the worst in its category i would love to read it. Coming from a owner of a 2.0T, i have yet to have an engine failure that left me stranded after 4 years and i cannot say the same of any Toyota, nissan or Honda product yet that i have owned.
I am not trying to start anything but if you post something where its the worst in its category i would love to read it. Coming from a owner of a 2.0T, i have yet to have an engine failure that left me stranded after 4 years and i cannot say the same of any Toyota, nissan or Honda product yet that i have owned.
You must have bad luck with Honda products. My family has had four Acuras in the past 10 years, and none of them has ever broken down. I currently have a Mazda that has never had a problem in five years of ownership.
05-17-2009, 07:40 PM
#135
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We obviously have different opinions on how that is interpreted. Coming from Acura's standpoint maybe that is clear but from a consumer standpoint it can be hard to understand why the TL is possibly targeted at the A6, 5 Series etc and so is the RL. When Acura has such a wide marketing range for the TL you can see why its often compared to parent company cars like the Maxima, VW CC, etc. In turn IMO i think this backfires on Acura in the marketing area when major automotive mags etc do comparo's and a car like the 4G continues to fail, even against parent company vehicles and also the "near luxury" segment....It may not mean much to people like us as we know that the 4G is a good car but from a marketing standpoint it doesnt help Acura.
I agree with you that i also dont consider Acura a tier 1 manufactuer and accept them for what they are. If Acura is going proceed to this Tier 1 status as they say though they are going to have to get away from marketing their cars in a general way and go after specific segments if they are going to achieve this goal.
I agree with you that i also dont consider Acura a tier 1 manufactuer and accept them for what they are. If Acura is going proceed to this Tier 1 status as they say though they are going to have to get away from marketing their cars in a general way and go after specific segments if they are going to achieve this goal.
In the late 90's to early 2000's, BMW did shift the overall marketing approach of their vehicles to more general and less sporty. BMW enthusiasts were shocked at the softer spring/damper/sway bar rates in many of the non-sport model BMW's. So shifting to a more general approach has worked very well for BMW in their vehicles in that their sales have gone up. Contra to that MB went toward a more sporty aspect to their vehicles in the mid-90's. Once upon a time BMW and MB had their own market segments with very little overlap, now-a-days almost all their vehicles directly compete.
05-17-2009, 10:00 PM
#136
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Keep it civil fella's (and ladies).
Seems the general Moderator consensus is that model comparison's are Car Talk material, that's why the move.
Seems the general Moderator consensus is that model comparison's are Car Talk material, that's why the move.
05-17-2009, 11:52 PM
#138
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Comparo of two mediocre cars (for their classes) that I wouldn't consider. :gheyfight
Might be more interesting if MT compared the A4 2.0T to the TSX.
Every version of the A4 is outgunned on the acceleration front by the comparable German competitors, too.
05-18-2009, 01:23 AM
#139
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[QUOTE=SSFTSX;10908744]ur quoting study for two different sources. be honest and show me single souce where TL-SH-AWD is faster than A4. u wont find any.
U fail to understand that A4 has only 211bhp but it is faster than 305 bhp TL on most tests. Car&Driver even managed 5.7 second. and it is not even equiped with 7 S tronic like EU version. so what does it tell.
The problem is your not reading the links that i posted. S5 will be more expensive. Coupe is more expensive and it is not only due to engine.
V8 A6 & 3.0T A6 has $9K gap and they are essentailly same car.
According to Edmunds, the TL SH-AWD is faster. And don't tell me in Edmunds the TL is only slightly faster, because it's already faster even though it starts in 2nd gear. I can't do anything if the mags keep on brake torquing the TL.
And you fail to realize that these mags don't have a clue about the brake torquing issue. From the trap speed, the TL is clearly faster. Trap speed is directly related your power/weight ratio. And the TL is not even equipped with 6MT.
$9k difference? Yea, you are right, if you are talking about 3.0T Premium ($50k) vs 4.2 FSI Prestige ($61k). But, there's also a 3.0T Prestige model, which is at $55.2k. So that's not even a $6k difference. And the 3.0T only has 300hp, while the V8 model has 350hp. Ya, I can understand that you need to pay more for a V8 engine AND more power. The S4 vs S5 though, both make about the same torque and hp. So essentially you are getting 2 more cylinders, rather than a lot of extra power. I personally don't think that's gonna worth $6k.
U fail to understand that A4 has only 211bhp but it is faster than 305 bhp TL on most tests. Car&Driver even managed 5.7 second. and it is not even equiped with 7 S tronic like EU version. so what does it tell.
The problem is your not reading the links that i posted. S5 will be more expensive. Coupe is more expensive and it is not only due to engine.
V8 A6 & 3.0T A6 has $9K gap and they are essentailly same car.
And you fail to realize that these mags don't have a clue about the brake torquing issue. From the trap speed, the TL is clearly faster. Trap speed is directly related your power/weight ratio. And the TL is not even equipped with 6MT.
$9k difference? Yea, you are right, if you are talking about 3.0T Premium ($50k) vs 4.2 FSI Prestige ($61k). But, there's also a 3.0T Prestige model, which is at $55.2k. So that's not even a $6k difference. And the 3.0T only has 300hp, while the V8 model has 350hp. Ya, I can understand that you need to pay more for a V8 engine AND more power. The S4 vs S5 though, both make about the same torque and hp. So essentially you are getting 2 more cylinders, rather than a lot of extra power. I personally don't think that's gonna worth $6k.
05-18-2009, 01:27 AM
#140
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ugh, more crap sent over to car talk.
why did the Audi win?
simple...Acura royally botched the interior and specially the exterior design of the new TL.
why did the Audi win?
simple...Acura royally botched the interior and specially the exterior design of the new TL.
05-18-2009, 04:38 AM
#141
uhm the numbers are either lying or lying
TL weight 3955 A4 weight 3852
TL HP 305 A4 HP265
so how does a car with 40 MORE HP and only 103 lbs more weight loose? the TL only needs to shift once to get to 60 and 2 to get up to 100.......
now the passing scores are interesting (45-65) TL 3 sec A4 3.2 sec
same for the 0-90 and 0-100 numbers..lol u mean the TL closed the .5 sec gap down to .1 sec in 10mph?
Their numbers are totally f'd up. The TL should easily best the A4 based upon the specs for HP/weight
#'s are straight from their article......
TL weight 3955 A4 weight 3852
TL HP 305 A4 HP265
so how does a car with 40 MORE HP and only 103 lbs more weight loose? the TL only needs to shift once to get to 60 and 2 to get up to 100.......
now the passing scores are interesting (45-65) TL 3 sec A4 3.2 sec
same for the 0-90 and 0-100 numbers..lol u mean the TL closed the .5 sec gap down to .1 sec in 10mph?
Their numbers are totally f'd up. The TL should easily best the A4 based upon the specs for HP/weight
#'s are straight from their article......
05-18-2009, 07:52 AM
#142
^ way too many factors (better tires, better transmission, Honda's recent drive-by-wire that's not very efficient, etc).
It's faster in this test, but it's not like it SMOKED the TL. I too was surprised that it was faster to begin with, but the difference isn't so great.
It's faster in this test, but it's not like it SMOKED the TL. I too was surprised that it was faster to begin with, but the difference isn't so great.
05-18-2009, 12:29 PM
#143
http://www.whatcar.com/news-article.aspx?NA=230398
And you fail to realize that these mags don't have a clue about the brake torquing issue. From the trap speed, the TL is clearly faster. Trap speed is directly related your power/weight ratio. And the TL is not even equipped with 6MT.
$9k difference? Yea, you are right, if you are talking about 3.0T Premium ($50k) vs 4.2 FSI Prestige ($61k). But, there's also a 3.0T Prestige model, which is at $55.2k. So that's not even a $6k difference. And the 3.0T only has 300hp, while the V8 model has 350hp. Ya, I can understand that you need to pay more for a V8 engine AND more power. The S4 vs S5 though, both make about the same torque and hp. So essentially you are getting 2 more cylinders, rather than a lot of extra power. I personally don't think that's gonna worth $6k.
I am not even going into $7k difference due to limited production V8. Mass production engines are 4 cylinder than 6 cylinder. 8 cyliner hardly makeup 5%
05-18-2009, 12:44 PM
#144
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According TO Caranddriver, Road&Track, Automobile, Cars.com and some of Edmunds tests. Audi A4 is ahead. You have only one test i can show tons of test. both 2.0T & 3.2 are faster and they dont even have newer transmissions. You have to undrstand A4 is year older than TL as it was launched in EU. It was even delivered to UK in April 2008. Now they have upgraded models with S-tronic.
05-18-2009, 01:12 PM
#145
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SSFTSX, like I have said, I can't do anything if mags don't know about the brake torquing issue which causes the transmission to do the 1-2-1 shift. Afterall, these journalists are just normal humans and aren't engineers. Heck, even owners that have spent months in the TL don't know about this problem until later, let alone those journalists who would only spend days with the car.
So you are saying, while the 335i coupe is $2k more expensive than the 335i sedan, the S5 is $3-$4 more expensive than a S4 just for being a coupe alone, and does not include the difference between V8 and V6?
So you are saying, while the 335i coupe is $2k more expensive than the 335i sedan, the S5 is $3-$4 more expensive than a S4 just for being a coupe alone, and does not include the difference between V8 and V6?
05-18-2009, 01:19 PM
#146
The sizzle in the Steak
05-18-2009, 01:32 PM
#147
uhm the numbers are either lying or lying
TL weight 3955 A4 weight 3852
TL HP 305 A4 HP265
so how does a car with 40 MORE HP and only 103 lbs more weight loose? the TL only needs to shift once to get to 60 and 2 to get up to 100.......
now the passing scores are interesting (45-65) TL 3 sec A4 3.2 sec
same for the 0-90 and 0-100 numbers..lol u mean the TL closed the .5 sec gap down to .1 sec in 10mph?
Their numbers are totally f'd up. The TL should easily best the A4 based upon the specs for HP/weight
#'s are straight from their article......
TL weight 3955 A4 weight 3852
TL HP 305 A4 HP265
so how does a car with 40 MORE HP and only 103 lbs more weight loose? the TL only needs to shift once to get to 60 and 2 to get up to 100.......
now the passing scores are interesting (45-65) TL 3 sec A4 3.2 sec
same for the 0-90 and 0-100 numbers..lol u mean the TL closed the .5 sec gap down to .1 sec in 10mph?
Their numbers are totally f'd up. The TL should easily best the A4 based upon the specs for HP/weight
#'s are straight from their article......
Well said and thank you for an additional reasonable opinion on the matter, we have argued this for while now. It is becoming a new practice for some automakers to not allow for brake tourguing, the TL SH happens to be one of those cars due to the variable nature of the AWD system. When attempted the car starts off in 2nd gear. The testers are just too used to trying to get the maximum out of the car and are not made aware of the situation or don't have the intellegence to check for it, either. One can, one can't and it actually puts it at a further disadvantage, that's why we are seeing those results. I am not suggesting the Audi not do it, if the TL can't then that's their problem, but I would suggest that they just run the Acura normally and we would have a fair outcome. I don't know too many people who would bet on the Audi in this situation in the real world, kind of hoping people just go buy the A4 if there are in the market for either car and just become tremendously disappointed.... but the magazine said......
I never take any published acceleration test as gospel, there are too many variables and they are just too easy to manipulate, the real figures, the ones that matter are also there, in black and white, but it's a matter of using your own logic and intelligence to figure it out, don't say nobody told you.
Last edited by winstrolvtec; 05-18-2009 at 01:35 PM.
05-18-2009, 01:42 PM
#148
SSFTSX, like I have said, I can't do anything if mags don't know about the brake torquing issue which causes the transmission to do the 1-2-1 shift. Afterall, these journalists are just normal humans and aren't engineers. Heck, even owners that have spent months in the TL don't know about this problem until later, let alone those journalists who would only spend days with the car.
So you are saying, while the 335i coupe is $2k more expensive than the 335i sedan, the S5 is $3-$4 more expensive than a S4 just for being a coupe alone, and does not include the difference between V8 and V6?
Edmunds compared a comprision test of M3 and S5. Only 0.3 second difference in 0-60mph and and 0.5 second difference at quarter mile.
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpconta...5/pageNumber=7
This despite being S5 400 lbs heavier and 60 hp down with larger frontal area.
slightly lighter car with better torque numbers would have eliminted the gap wtih M3.
05-18-2009, 01:48 PM
#149
I'd pick the new A4 over the new TL any day...Hmm, you must have zero Audi experience lately. When we had our A4 2.0T we had zero repair costs, maintenance was free from Audi, and it was in the shop less them my 2002 TL-S. It never needed a new tranny either. Heck even our A6 is better then my TL-S was and, minus the tranny, the TL-S wasn't too bad. So that should tell you how great both Audi's were/are for us...
05-18-2009, 01:54 PM
#151
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You must not have seen reliability ratings for the TL and A4 recently. It is generally not a good idea to make reliability conclusions based on small sample sizes, as both brands will have their share of outliers. If you want to use anecdotal evidence to make concluisons, my family has had four TLs without any significant problems.
Last edited by JD23; 05-18-2009 at 01:56 PM.
05-18-2009, 01:54 PM
#152
The S5 will appear to be close becuase of the AWD and advantage from 0, not to mention I am sure it is geared towards the purpose of the 0-60 and 1/4 mile numbers, but look at the traps, it's murder.
05-18-2009, 02:05 PM
#153
The S4 is really only going to be about $4k less than the S5, I find that funny cause the A4 3.2 is only about $5k-$6k less than the S5 when equally equipped, if that's the case maybe we all should buy S4's.
05-18-2009, 02:14 PM
#154
I am sure it will be pretty close on the curves with S4 not to mention better torque characteristic of supercharged engine.
http://blogs.motortrend.com/6212023/...yum/index.html
How yummy? Last week, the boys took the S5 to the track and came back all giggly and wide-eyed. How does 0 to 60 mph in just 4.5 seconds sound? The launch was high-drama, high-winding, sidestep-the-clutch stuff, but you can't argue with the resulting number. The S5 also laid down a quarter mile of 13.1 seconds at 105.2 mph. Yeeow. That's awfully quick for such a pretty, refined thing
How yummy? Last week, the boys took the S5 to the track and came back all giggly and wide-eyed. How does 0 to 60 mph in just 4.5 seconds sound? The launch was high-drama, high-winding, sidestep-the-clutch stuff, but you can't argue with the resulting number. The S5 also laid down a quarter mile of 13.1 seconds at 105.2 mph. Yeeow. That's awfully quick for such a pretty, refined thing
05-18-2009, 02:32 PM
#155
You must not have seen reliability ratings for the TL and A4 recently. It is generally not a good idea to make reliability conclusions based on small sample sizes, as both brands will have their share of outliers. If you want to use anecdotal evidence to make concluisons, my family has had four TLs without any significant problems.
at you for assuming I"m using small samples and at you for not being on Acurazine from 2001-2006 or so when about 85% of the forum members were having their transmissions replaced... some more then 2 or 3 times each. Compare that with the "problems" reported on Audizine or Audiworld during the same time and the Audi's were better overall.I also wouldn't put all of your faith in magazines like Consumer Reports.
They used to recommend some Range Rover models 
... and they're not as biased as you would think 
Audi's get a bad wrap due to the problems they had in the 80's and 90's. Those problems are a thing of the past as Audi has come a very long way in terms of reliability. The A8 may still need a little help, the the A6 and especially A4 are much improved and in some cases, on par with Acura lately.
Lastly, not only do we know the GM and the Service Manager of the local Audi dealership, but we know the owner as well. Additionally, we know a few execs at the automotive group which owns the Acura dealer... so I'd put my money on the fact that I have access and have seen more "samples" then you...
05-18-2009, 03:31 PM
#157
The sizzle in the Steak
As a matter of fact my Acura was probably the most unreliable and poorest quality car I have owned.
My Honda vehicles are by far better than their Acura counterparts were.
My german vehicles were/are on par with Honda.
05-18-2009, 03:45 PM
#158
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at your argument that Consumer Reports is unreliable when you cite Acurazine and Audizine posts as evidence that Audis are more reliable. Not that I particularly trust JD Power, but they also have Acura ranked above Audi. Where is your evidence that Audi is more reliable? Other than namedropping your "execs" and stating that you are better informed and everyone should just take your word for it, you have no verifiable evidence supporting you.
05-18-2009, 04:07 PM
#159
Two of the TLs did have the transmissions replaced under warranty, so I am familiar with the transmission problems. at your argument that Consumer Reports is unreliable when you cite Acurazine and Audizine posts as evidence that Audis are more reliable. Not that I particularly trust JD Power, but they also have Acura ranked above Audi. Where is your evidence that Audi is more reliable? Other than namedropping your "execs" and stating that you are better informed and everyone should just take your word for it, you have no verifiable evidence supporting you.
at your argument that Consumer Reports is unreliable when you cite Acurazine and Audizine posts as evidence that Audis are more reliable. Not that I particularly trust JD Power, but they also have Acura ranked above Audi. Where is your evidence that Audi is more reliable? Other than namedropping your "execs" and stating that you are better informed and everyone should just take your word for it, you have no verifiable evidence supporting you. .This is why I hate when model threads get moved to Car Talk.
05-18-2009, 04:17 PM
#160
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I don't think anyone has said Audi is more reliable than Acura overall. If anything, people are merely sharing their own personal experience on how their Acuras have been less reliable than what Consumer Reports or JD Powers praises them to be.
And regardless of evidence being "anecdotal" it still leaves a bad impression on the person who experienced it. For example, my RL had many issues while my A4 remains trouble free. If anything, it's made me less inclined to consider another Acura in the future, regardless of what Consumer Reports publishes.
Anyhow, as for the TL versus A4, who cares? Big whoop if Motor Trend favors the Audi. What's new? The rags have been favoring german brands for years. Buy and drive what you want based on what you like, not on what some magazine says.
And regardless of evidence being "anecdotal" it still leaves a bad impression on the person who experienced it. For example, my RL had many issues while my A4 remains trouble free. If anything, it's made me less inclined to consider another Acura in the future, regardless of what Consumer Reports publishes.
Anyhow, as for the TL versus A4, who cares? Big whoop if Motor Trend favors the Audi. What's new? The rags have been favoring german brands for years. Buy and drive what you want based on what you like, not on what some magazine says.