Jack Baruth: The GT-R is Bad For Nissan
03-11-2008, 11:18 AM
#41
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Originally Posted by Maximized
I think the guy brings up valid points.
My opinion is that the GTR is one of the most over-rated cars to come out in a long time. Nissan has hyped the car up and the Grand Turismo crowd has taken it in. Every fan boy points to the 7:38 Nurburgring time and says wow. Nissan ran the lap from a rolling start and didn’t finish at the same point where the video started. You can clearly see this in the video that is posted on YouTube. On the other hand, the fan boys say that the GTR is a better deal than say a Z06. This isn’t true at all. The Z06 is clearly faster due to Chevy keeping the weight in check. Lastly, when the Jan Magnusson Z06 ran at the Ring’ he started from a dead stop. What I am trying to get at is that Nissan’s marketing is trying to pull a fast one. They pulled a few tricks to try to beat the competitions times. When a production GTR is tested in the US running the “Lightning Lap” or some other credible test, the GTR will get some respect from me. Other than that, right now the car is all hype.
My opinion is that the GTR is one of the most over-rated cars to come out in a long time. Nissan has hyped the car up and the Grand Turismo crowd has taken it in. Every fan boy points to the 7:38 Nurburgring time and says wow. Nissan ran the lap from a rolling start and didn’t finish at the same point where the video started. You can clearly see this in the video that is posted on YouTube. On the other hand, the fan boys say that the GTR is a better deal than say a Z06. This isn’t true at all. The Z06 is clearly faster due to Chevy keeping the weight in check. Lastly, when the Jan Magnusson Z06 ran at the Ring’ he started from a dead stop. What I am trying to get at is that Nissan’s marketing is trying to pull a fast one. They pulled a few tricks to try to beat the competitions times. When a production GTR is tested in the US running the “Lightning Lap” or some other credible test, the GTR will get some respect from me. Other than that, right now the car is all hype.
and didn't the GTR run the 911 on laguna?
fanboys of chevy like to say how fast the Z06 is, but forgets the fact that the GTR wasn't meant to go up against the Z06...and i love the z06 but i can clearly see the difference in both cars
GTR is ur every day super car.....i dont think the Z06 was built with every day driving in mind
03-11-2008, 11:39 AM
#42
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Originally Posted by MaximaPower
so how about the lap time at tsukuba?
and didn't the GTR run the 911 on laguna?
fanboys of chevy like to say how fast the Z06 is, but forgets the fact that the GTR wasn't meant to go up against the Z06...and i love the z06 but i can clearly see the difference in both cars
GTR is ur every day super car.....i dont think the Z06 was built with every day driving in mind
and didn't the GTR run the 911 on laguna?
fanboys of chevy like to say how fast the Z06 is, but forgets the fact that the GTR wasn't meant to go up against the Z06...and i love the z06 but i can clearly see the difference in both cars
GTR is ur every day super car.....i dont think the Z06 was built with every day driving in mind
How are the GTR and Z06 not going against each other? Because Nissan says so? That’s not true at all. As for being an “everyday” sports car, that’s BS too. Both the GT-R and Z06 will need snow tires to be a year round daily.
Last edited by Maximized; 03-11-2008 at 11:44 AM.
03-11-2008, 11:45 AM
#43
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by eccjak
Which dealer would that be?
03-11-2008, 11:58 AM
#44
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Originally Posted by Maximized
All tests I've seen are pre-production cars. See where I am going with this.
How are the GTR and Z06 not going against each other? Because Nissan says so? That’s not true at all. As for being an “everyday” sports car, that’s BS too. Both the GT-R and Z06 will need snow tires to be a year round daily.
How are the GTR and Z06 not going against each other? Because Nissan says so? That’s not true at all. As for being an “everyday” sports car, that’s BS too. Both the GT-R and Z06 will need snow tires to be a year round daily.
btw, mine's ran their stock GTR around tsukuba...i'm sure nissan didn't give mine's a "pre-production" car...see where I'm going with this? GTR has been out already, just no here in the states
03-11-2008, 12:14 PM
#46
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Originally Posted by MaximaPower
then wat cars come with snow tires that you suggest would be an every day car?
btw, mine's ran their stock GTR around tsukuba...i'm sure nissan didn't give mine's a "pre-production" car...see where I'm going with this? GTR has been out already, just no here in the states
btw, mine's ran their stock GTR around tsukuba...i'm sure nissan didn't give mine's a "pre-production" car...see where I'm going with this? GTR has been out already, just no here in the states
Show me a production GT-R tested in the USA. Also, did you catch the European magazine that tested the GT-R independently at the Ring? Look at the difference in times.
03-11-2008, 12:16 PM
#47
Punk Rocker
Originally Posted by Maximized
All tests I've seen are pre-production cars. See where I am going with this.
How are the GTR and Z06 not going against each other? Because Nissan says so? That’s not true at all. As for being an “everyday” sports car, that’s BS too. Both the GT-R and Z06 will need snow tires to be a year round daily.
How are the GTR and Z06 not going against each other? Because Nissan says so? That’s not true at all. As for being an “everyday” sports car, that’s BS too. Both the GT-R and Z06 will need snow tires to be a year round daily.
03-11-2008, 12:20 PM
#48
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Originally Posted by majin ssj eric
Duh, the Corvette is a two-seater and the GT-R seats 4. Besides you just wait for all of the comparos to be done when the car actually gets here and I'm sure you will grow some respect for it.....
Last edited by Maximized; 03-11-2008 at 12:24 PM.
03-11-2008, 12:38 PM
#49
I shoot people
Originally Posted by eclipse23
In that train of thought....
Acura - NSX
BMW - Alpina or M series
Mercedes - McClarren or AMG
Lexus - The new IS
Infiniti - ???
Acura - NSX
BMW - Alpina or M series
Mercedes - McClarren or AMG
Lexus - The new IS
Infiniti - ???
BMW - Alpina or M series
Mercedes - McClarren or AMG
Lexus - The new IS
Infiniti - Nismo
03-11-2008, 12:43 PM
#50
Senior Moderator
^^^ not comparable because Nismo has not made and sold any specifically-branded models in the US, whereas all the others have.
03-11-2008, 12:44 PM
#51
This car is going to sell.
People in general have more money for toys now these days. Just look around, how many people have cars above 50k+ cars.. Lots of them.
This car is going to sell on it's merits alone.
People in general have more money for toys now these days. Just look around, how many people have cars above 50k+ cars.. Lots of them.
This car is going to sell on it's merits alone.
03-11-2008, 12:46 PM
#52
Senior Moderator
I dont necessarily agree with him, but it's well written. We'll just have to wait and see happens.. Personally, I'm not willing to take a chance and pay 8-20k over MSRP if it truly does turn into a Phaeton.
03-11-2008, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by deepdezal
People in general have more money for toys now these days. Just look around, how many people have cars above 50k+ cars.. Lots of them.
03-11-2008, 12:55 PM
#54
I shoot people
Originally Posted by srika
^^^ not comparable because Nismo has not made and sold any specifically-branded models in the US, whereas all the others have.
350Z Nismo Edition
Frontier Nismo Edition
03-11-2008, 12:57 PM
#55
Senior Moderator
+1.
Originally Posted by Maximized
Most of those people are in debt up to their eyeballs. People have over-leveraged themselves and the housing crisis is a perfect example.
03-11-2008, 01:01 PM
#56
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Originally Posted by Maximized
You can drive a 900whp Cobra in the snow on Mickey Thompson ET streets. It won't probably make it farther than ten feet and you will most likely end up in a ditch. The tires on both the Z06 and GT-R are summer only tires. That means that the compound isn't designed for colder climates. You SHOULD put snow tires on both cars.
Show me a production GT-R tested in the USA. Also, did you catch the European magazine that tested the GT-R independently at the Ring? Look at the difference in times.
Show me a production GT-R tested in the USA. Also, did you catch the European magazine that tested the GT-R independently at the Ring? Look at the difference in times.
my car came with summer tires...i guess my G isn't a daily driver either
edit: http://youtube.com/watch?v=MQlnGB5KsoE
Last edited by MaximaPower; 03-11-2008 at 01:03 PM.
03-11-2008, 01:04 PM
#57
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Originally Posted by MaximaPower
my car came with summer tires...i guess my G isn't a daily driver either
03-11-2008, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by mrdeeno
I think the point is that whether it comes with all-seasons or summer tires doesn't mean it can't be an "everyday" car.
03-11-2008, 01:24 PM
#60
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Originally Posted by Maximized
My opinion of an everyday car is one that can be driven 365 days a year in all weather conditions. The GTR and Z06 cannot do this well without snow tires or even all-seasons.
.
03-11-2008, 01:36 PM
#61
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I'd rather see the supra return in all it's glory. No car in my opinion has had a better afterlife since production since the supra (in the latest years). Hell, I see a Supra nowadays and it still gives me goosebumps. Besides, Toyota would keep it somewhat rationally priced whereas the GTR truly is going to be a very select few.
03-11-2008, 01:45 PM
#62
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Originally Posted by Maximized
My opinion of an everyday car is one that can be driven 365 days a year in all weather conditions. The GTR and Z06 cannot do this well without snow tires or even all-seasons.
03-11-2008, 02:22 PM
#63
If anything, a car with AWD and has > 2 seats is made to be an everyday car. The rear seats of the GTR look pretty comfy compared to most other 4 seat coupes. The question is, would you want to drive your GTR, with snow tires, around in winter in inches of snow when you're surrounded by people who can't drive wearing all-seasons on their cars?
Skillfully you could drive a Z06 in the snow too, with snow tires. But why would you want to?
Skillfully you could drive a Z06 in the snow too, with snow tires. But why would you want to?
03-11-2008, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by mrdeeno
I don't agree with your opinion, especially considering that a RWD car with summer tires will qualify as an everyday car in your book while in texas, yet the same car isn't an everyday car if the owner decides to move to PA...the car hasn't changed!
03-11-2008, 03:10 PM
#65
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Originally Posted by I Go To Costco
If anything, a car with AWD and has > 2 seats is made to be an everyday car. The rear seats of the GTR look pretty comfy compared to most other 4 seat coupes. The question is, would you want to drive your GTR, with snow tires, around in winter in inches of snow when you're surrounded by people who can't drive wearing all-seasons on their cars?
Skillfully you could drive a Z06 in the snow too, with snow tires. But why would you want to?
Skillfully you could drive a Z06 in the snow too, with snow tires. But why would you want to?
03-11-2008, 03:17 PM
#66
Engineer
Originally Posted by is300eater
350Z Nismo Edition
Frontier Nismo Edition
Nothing like a MB AMG, BMW M, Cadillac V, Audi S, and now Lexus F... Any of these cars are nothing like their regular counterparts, basically completely different animals with a similar body...
Drive a Nismo Z and a regular Z and I doubt you will notice much of a difference, hop in an M or AMG and you will immediately see a difference...
03-11-2008, 03:20 PM
#67
I shoot people
Originally Posted by savage
those are basically just a bunch of bolt ons though... aren't they just suspension, body kits, and stickers? No serious performance increases in their engines...
Nothing like a MB AMG, BMW M, Cadillac V, Audi S, and now Lexus F... Any of these cars are nothing like their regular counterparts, basically completely different animals with a similar body...
Drive a Nismo Z and a regular Z and I doubt you will notice much of a difference, hop in an M or AMG and you will immediately see a difference...
Nothing like a MB AMG, BMW M, Cadillac V, Audi S, and now Lexus F... Any of these cars are nothing like their regular counterparts, basically completely different animals with a similar body...
Drive a Nismo Z and a regular Z and I doubt you will notice much of a difference, hop in an M or AMG and you will immediately see a difference...
but it's still a "name" they can go on... that was my point.
oh, and... I believe that's how AMG started... "bolt-ons". I know, cause I had a 190E back in the day, bought the aero kit for it... they were nothing more than body kits back then... they weren't even part of M.B.
03-11-2008, 03:23 PM
#68
Engineer
Originally Posted by Maximized
My uncle John drives his 996 TT in the snow with Pirelli snow tires. He also drove his Z06 in the winter. He has an AWD Escalade too, but but like driving a sports car everyday. Cars are meant to be driven, not museum objects.
03-11-2008, 03:28 PM
#69
Engineer
Originally Posted by is300eater
but it's still a "name" they can go on... that was my point.
oh, and... I believe that's how AMG started... "bolt-ons". I know, cause I had a 190E back in the day, bought the aero kit for it... they were nothing more than body kits back then... they weren't even part of M.B.
oh, and... I believe that's how AMG started... "bolt-ons". I know, cause I had a 190E back in the day, bought the aero kit for it... they were nothing more than body kits back then... they weren't even part of M.B.
They could have built a supercharged or turbo'd 350Z for years now, yet still haven't... Even if it is small volume they should do it on the next gen Z...
If anything I think something like that should have been the halo car for Nissan and use the GTR as the halo for Infiniti...
03-11-2008, 03:43 PM
#70
Senior Moderator
The car will sell and it will generate a profit for Nissan. Period.
03-11-2008, 04:01 PM
#72
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Originally Posted by F23A4
The car will sell and it will generate a profit for Nissan. Period.
At those numbers I bet not much of a margin. If anything the brand will benefit as well the dealerships.
03-11-2008, 04:05 PM
#73
Originally Posted by Maximized
My uncle John drives his 996 TT in the snow with Pirelli snow tires. He also drove his Z06 in the winter. He has an AWD Escalade too, but but like driving a sports car everyday. Cars are meant to be driven, not museum objects.
If I had a 911, same thing... AWD or not I would drive it as often as I wanted. Do I trust other drivers in the snow though? Hell no. That's fine and dandy that your uncle John drives his 911 in the snow, its all fun and games until some dumbass brakes too late, locks up his wheels and rear ends Uncle John's 911 and pushes the engine into the rear seats.
03-11-2008, 04:34 PM
#74
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Originally Posted by I Go To Costco
If I had a 911, same thing... AWD or not I would drive it as often as I wanted. Do I trust other drivers in the snow though? Hell no. That's fine and dandy that your uncle John drives his 911 in the snow, its all fun and games until some dumbass brakes too late, locks up his wheels and rear ends Uncle John's 911 and pushes the engine into the rear seats.
Last edited by Maximized; 03-11-2008 at 04:38 PM.
03-11-2008, 04:46 PM
#75
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Originally Posted by is300eater
oh, and... I believe that's how AMG started... "bolt-ons". I know, cause I had a 190E back in the day, bought the aero kit for it... they were nothing more than body kits back then... they weren't even part of M.B.
As the 70's wore on, AMG expanded their business into providing passenger car customers with uprated engines, suspensions, and aerodynamic pieces.
That morphed into doing entire AMG editions of various MB cars, such as the AMG Hammer and the 1987 190E AMG 3.2, in the 80's.
In 1990, they signed a deal with MB to sell AMG products through MB retail outlets.
In 1999, they were absorbed by MB entirely.
-Mirror
Last edited by TheMirror; 03-11-2008 at 04:50 PM.
03-11-2008, 04:49 PM
#76
Originally Posted by Maximized
You can have an idiot smash into you on an 80 degree sunny day. That’s what insurance is for. I’d take with my RWD vehicle with good snow tires over my G/F’s AWD SUV with VSC/TC etc. on A/S tires. SUV’s might accelerate better, but the snow tires really make the car brake well in the snow
But when you're swimming in a piranha infested river, screw the boat, swim, its just as safe....
My point is its much safer in 80 degree weather than it is in below freezing when the street is covered in snow and black ice. That's silly, taking a Z06 out in the snow when you have an Escalade. Where did your uncle buy the Escalade anyway then? Fit snow tires on an AWD SUV... it'll pretty much be a tank, feels very safe. Insurance or not I'd rather not have an idiot smash into me, thanks. I'd feel much better if he smashed into my dinky ass beater Civic rather than see my baby crumpled up in pieces. That's just me though.
If I had a GTR I would drive the thing every day.... but what do I know, I live in California. I sure as hell wouldn't take it to just get groceries or take friends to go snowboarding though, chances are if I had a GTR I would have a vehicle much more suited to doing just those things.
People get so worked up over someone saying the GTR isn't an all-weather vehicle...
03-11-2008, 04:52 PM
#77
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by is300eater
350Z Nismo Edition
Frontier Nismo Edition
03-11-2008, 04:58 PM
#78
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by MaximaPower
GTR has optional snow tires, IIRC
my car came with summer tires...i guess my G isn't a daily driver either
edit: http://youtube.com/watch?v=MQlnGB5KsoE
my car came with summer tires...i guess my G isn't a daily driver either
edit: http://youtube.com/watch?v=MQlnGB5KsoE
03-11-2008, 04:59 PM
#79
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by eclipse23
I'd rather see the supra return in all it's glory. No car in my opinion has had a better afterlife since production since the supra (in the latest years). Hell, I see a Supra nowadays and it still gives me goosebumps. Besides, Toyota would keep it somewhat rationally priced whereas the GTR truly is going to be a very select few.
03-11-2008, 05:00 PM
#80
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by TheMirror
AMG actually started in the late 60's and early 70's as an outstanding and successful builder of production based race cars.
As the 70's wore on, AMG expanded their business into providing passenger car customers with uprated engines, suspensions, and aerodynamic pieces.
That morphed into doing entire AMG editions of various MB cars, such as the AMG Hammer and the 1987 190E AMG 3.2, in the 80's.
In 1990, they signed a deal with MB to sell AMG products through MB retail outlets.
In 1999, they were absorbed by MB entirely.
-Mirror
As the 70's wore on, AMG expanded their business into providing passenger car customers with uprated engines, suspensions, and aerodynamic pieces.
That morphed into doing entire AMG editions of various MB cars, such as the AMG Hammer and the 1987 190E AMG 3.2, in the 80's.
In 1990, they signed a deal with MB to sell AMG products through MB retail outlets.
In 1999, they were absorbed by MB entirely.
-Mirror